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[firehawk12]

I believe it was ambiguous up until this episode, where they decided to make it fairly clear what was going on through use of 'privileged information' (we might call this the first argument, because it's the strongest). I don't feel that the scene was executed in a particularly ambitious manner either.

I might also argue that this event is part of a long chain of events which have hinted at Menma being a ghost. However, it doesn't take long to see why this secondary argument holds no water.

Finally, I don't find it to be particularly odd to have a ghost in a Japanese story.

I still think it's possible that they're still playing with expectations of dramatic irony, hence the rather apathetic ending. I think it's clear that the whole show is predicated on Jintan recovering from his trauma/malaise - helping everyone else seems almost incidental - and as such, the show doesn't really need Menma to exist.

As for ghosts existing. Eh. I don't think Ohana's grandpa is going to show up and give her some Obiwan-like advice on how to save the inn. But, I know, suspension of disbelief and all that.

He still talks about her as a "summer beast" so he still seems to think its just a hallucination of his.

Right, which is why I think his apathy might be a way to troll the speculah people.

 

[Articalys]

Well, they're still taking measures to avoid her interacting with anything material while there's anyone around except Jintan, and he seemed to take particular notice she was eating the Pocky stick, but it's still hard to draw any real conclusions.

 

[Steroyd]

We don't know. Hell, it could have come up at the funeral and they're working their way up to a flashback reveal.

With the way everyone is traumatised to a degree, I doubt anyone would have tried to relive the moment at an early mourning phase, hell Creepy Raper Guy spilled his guts out for the first time towards Jintan.

 

[firehawk12]

Honestly, all of this is predicated on whether or not they'll try to Shyamalan the ending or not. Years of cynicism makes me think that's the case.

I mean, I just watched a movie where a dad turns into a snowman in order to help his son deal with his death and they straight up said that the dad had turned into a snowman... so if she's really a ghost, I kind of expect them to be that blunt.

 

[Jex]

I dont see how she couldn't be a ghost, if she were a delusion then she wouldn't be able to travel around town without Jintan around.

Strangely enough I'm with firehawk12 on this. The camera could go around observing people and Menma might just be there to confuse the audience.

That does beg the question "who is hallucinating Menma at this point?" because it certainly wouldn't be Jintan.

Hmmm.

 

[Instro]

Strangely enough I'm with firehawk12 on this. The camera could go around observing people and Menma might just be there to confuse the audience.

That does beg the question "who is hallucinating Menma at this point?" because it certainly wouldn't be Jintan.

I guess that's possible, but I really dont see that kind of twist coming out of this show. It doesn't really add to the story they are trying to tell. Besides, the simpler explanation is usually the best one. You have to work pretty hard at this point to believe that she isn't a ghost.

 

[Jex]

I mean, I just watched a movie where a dad turns into a snowman in order to help his son deal with his death and they straight up said that the dad had turned into a snowman... so if she's really a ghost, I kind of expect them to be that blunt.

So you admit to watching Jack Frost, in your own time with no provocation, and now you expect us to respond to anything you say as if you were a normal human being?!!

 

[Articalys]

Oh yeah, at one point, didn't they show Jintan looking at a reflection in the T.V. screen in his house and not seeing Menma when she was standing right next to him?

 

[Cmagus]

I started watching Guin Saga, I got Anime on Demand it was like the only show that had an episode one.So far it's decent im only at episode 3 (4 is missing) but they have 5-7 up as well.

 

[Dresden]

Oh yeah, at one point, didn't they show Jintan looking at a reflection in the T.V. screen in his house and not seeing Menma when she was standing right next to him?

Well, that could just as easily be like what happens to (lol) vampires, no reflections for ghosts, etc.

They've been pretty ambiguous about it. I think her being a ghost would be simple enough, since the story doesn't need her to be anything more than that, but who knows, they could go for something needlessly convoluted as a gotcha! surprise.

 

[Izayoi]

Ano Hana thoughts.

$20 says that her wish is

Spoiler

knowing the name of the flower they saw that day

.

An additional $20 says that

Spoiler

the flower they saw was a forget-me-not.

BAM.

 

[Hellsing321]

Honestly, all of this is predicated on whether or not they'll try to Shyamalan the ending or not. Years of cynicism makes me think that's the case.

I mean, I just watched a movie where a dad turns into a snowman in order to help his son deal with his death and they straight up said that the dad had turned into a snowman... so if she's really a ghost, I kind of expect them to be that blunt.

Is that the one where the snowman goes on a killing spree?

 

[Articalys]

Is that the one where the snowman goes on a killing spree?

Amazingly, there were two separate movies released two years apart with identical titles, one a horror comedy, the other a family comedy.

 

[Instro]

This has probably already been brought up, but now that I think about it, isn't it possible that Tsuruko told Jintan about the hair clip? I mean it seemed like she was the one who set up that meeting between Jintan and Yukiatsu in ep.4 so she might have planned this whole thing out as a way to help Yukiatsu.

 

[Izayoi]

This has probably already been brought up, but now that I think about it, isn't it possible that Tsuruko told Jintan about the hair clip? I mean it seemed like she was the one who set up that meeting between Jintan and Yukiatsu in ep.4 so she might have planned this whole thing out as a way to help Yukiatsu.

She's real, though. The weight on people when she hangs on them, the cup, the dog barking at her, the fact that we see her away from Jinta at all.

Also, for proof to my theory, observe the

Spoiler

color of her ribbon

and

Spoiler

the flower that takes her place in the OP

.

 

[Crash Station]

Hajime no Ippo 14

A dodging and simultaneous hitting match? Eh.

 

[Lain]

Persona Trinity Soul 18-26
After 3 years, I managed to finish watching this show. Not that it is a feat to be celebrated, since the show is really bad, but I had to conclude what I had started. I had to see where they wanted to go and how they wanted to go at it and, unsurprisingly, not even the end could redeem it, also because the end sucked.
I finished watching it and asked myself one simple question: what was the point of this show? The whole thing felt so pointless.
There are only a couple of positive things I can say about this show: the death of Kanaru Morimoto managed to be somewhat sad, but Shin's stupidity ruined it (I couldn't help but laugh at the fact he only found out she's dead there after the phone call tells him). Also, the character designs weren't all that bad.

 

[Jex]

This has probably already been brought up, but now that I think about it, isn't it possible that Tsuruko told Jintan about the hair clip? I mean it seemed like she was the one who set up that meeting between Jintan and Yukiatsu in ep.4 so she might have planned this whole thing out as a way to help Yukiatsu.

Once again we're veering into the needlessly complicated and convoluted territory, which isn't really in-line with the writing so far.

What else has to be true for this assumption to be true? Firstly, Tsuruko would have to find to find time to confide in Jintan this information, which would apparently be off-screen considering we've seen all their interactions thus far.

Secondly, she'd have to know that telling him would be useful for some future date. Why would she tell him about the hairclip, so that he could later lie to Yuki and claim it was ghost-Menma telling him that? How could she be sure that such trivial and private information would have any bearing on aything?

Why would Jintan agree to be used in such a needlessly complicated plan? That doesn't seem like the kind of scheme he'd engage in.

Why did we see Menma whisper something to Jintan before he delivered that line, coincidence?

Once again, it involves bending over backwards and avoiding a much cleaner, simpler explanation.

 

[Instro]

Once again we're veering into the needlessly complicated and convoluted territory, which isn't really in-line with the writing so far.

What else has to be true for this assumption to be true? Firstly, Tsuruko would have to find to find time to confide in Jintan this information, which would apparently be off-screen considering we've seen all their interactions thus far.

Secondly, she'd have to know that telling him would be useful for some future date. Why would she tell him about the hairclip, so that he could later lie to Yuki and claim it was ghost-Menma telling him that? How could she be sure that such trivial and private information would have any bearing on aything?

Why would Jintan agree to be used in such a needlessly complicated plan? That doesn't seem like the kind of scheme he'd engage in.

Why did we see Menma whisper something to Jintan before he delivered that line, coincidence?

Once again, it involves bending over backwards and avoiding a much cleaner, simpler explanation.

I completley agree shes obviously a ghost or whatever, it by far makes the most sene. I only bring that point up since people were trying to figure out how he would know about the hairclip if Menma hadnt told him. As I mentioned earlier, any attempt to make it seem like she might just be a delusion requires a lot of work on the part of the audience.

Persona Trinity Soul 18-26
After 3 years, I managed to finish watching this show. Not that it is a feat to be celebrated, since the show is really bad, but I had to conclude what I had started. I had to see where they wanted to go and how they wanted to go at it and, unsurprisingly, not even the end could redeem it, also because the end sucked.
I finished watching it and asked myself one simple question: what was the point of this show? The whole thing felt so pointless.
There are only a couple of positive things I can say about this show: the death of Kanaru Morimoto managed to be somewhat sad, but Shin's stupidity ruined it (I couldn't help but laugh at the fact he only found out she's dead there after the phone call tells him). Also, the character designs weren't all that bad.

What a trooper, I watched 25 episodes and then stopped back when it was airing. Only time I have ever stopped watching a show like that after being so far into it. So fucking boring.

 

[Lain]

Menma hits the table and makes a glass full of water fall in her house in the first episode.
I don't know about you guys, but I find a ghost more likely to do that than a hallucination.

 

[trejo]

Really now, I'm gonna be severely disappointed if they end up with some bullshit excuse saying it was all in Jintan's head all along. It simply does not add up with what we've seen her capable of doing so far not to mention it simply doesn't mesh with the tone nor the type of story the show is going for.

And yes, as these theories get more convoluted they become harder and harder to believe. Sometimes a ghost loli is just a ghost loli.

 

[Dresden]

Menma hits the table and makes a glass full of water fall in her house in the first episode.
I don't know about you guys, but I find a ghost more likely to do that than a hallucination.

Eh, if Menma was a hallucination, it could just as well be Jinta unconsciously lashing out to fulfill the physical conditions of such a hallucination existing (whether he was near or far from the table doesn't matter, he could just be an esper; lol). Same thing for shit like the dog barking (the dog was barking at something else that coincidentally was in the same direction as Menma), Menma whispering into his ear, etc; to him, she exists, and whether she's a ghost or not is irrelevant so long as she continues to be unable to make meaningful contact with the rest of the cast.

I mean, I think she's a ghost, but I wouldn't put it past them to pull a dumb fast one.

 

[Jex]

Eh, if Menma was a hallucination, it could just as well be Jinta unconsciously lashing out to fulfill the physical conditions of such a hallucination existing.

Although in that case it was in her house, with her family. No Jinta present, making it even more unlikely. And that was in the opening episode!

The evidence has been mounting since then. If they did pull a fast one, as you mention they could do, it would retroactively make all this stuff pretty dumb.

Then again, nothing is outside the realm of possibility.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After listening to AWO discuss how Redline actually has, horror of horrors an actual story I went back to look at the trailer with a slightly more critical eye to consider the storytelling that the trailer was present within the trailer.

I guess I never realised it was attempting anything so simple as that, when I looked at it the first time because of all the pretty colours. I didn't even notice that that dude was kissing two girls at once!

 

[trejo]

Although in that case it was in her house, with her family. No Jinta present, making it even more unlikely. And that was in the opening episode!

He was obviously sending out some denpa waves which caused the glass of water to fall. Subconsciously, of course.

 

[Dresden]

He was obviously sending out some denpa waves which caused the glass of water to fall. Subconsciously, of course.

The glass never fell, Jinta just hallucinated it.

In fact this is all a dream.

 

[firehawk12]

Assuming that ghosts can't eat food or take baths, they'll call an audible (McGuffin!!!!) and retcon all that stuff.

Like I said though, I'm not really married to any idea since I honestly don't care, especially if ultimately the end goal becomes the same. Whether Jinta is insane and needs help or if ghosts are real and he's being helped from "heaven", the end result is that he presumably gets better and all that.

And yeah, it was Jack Frost. Yay late night TV!

 

[Lain]

Eh, if Menma was a hallucination, it could just as well be Jinta unconsciously lashing out to fulfill the physical conditions of such a hallucination existing (whether he was near or far from the table doesn't matter, he could just be an esper; lol). Same thing for shit like the dog barking (the dog was barking at something else that coincidentally was in the same direction as Menma), Menma whispering into his ear, etc; to him, she exists, and whether she's a ghost or not is irrelevant so long as she continues to be unable to make meaningful contact with the rest of the cast.

I mean, I think she's a ghost, but I wouldn't put it past them to pull a dumb fast one.

Well, in that instance, Jinta isn't even around, since it happened in her house, after they split and she goes to see her family. She even opens the door, but that is only shown through sound, not directly, so I only mentioned the glass, because in that case it is shown that she hits the table and the glass falls.

On the other hand, maybe everyone else is the hallucination, Menma never died, she is just in some hospital, in a deep coma, all this is her dream and at the end of it, after she has gotten everyone back together, she'll wake up and everyone will be there for her.

 

[trejo]

The glass never fell, Jinta just hallucinated it.

In fact this is all a dream.

That scene never even happened in real life. It was just one of many scenarios being played in Jinta's mind as he's lying in his bed at the asylum. His mind gone from the shock of losing both his childhood sweetheart and mother in such close proximity. His "father" is actually his caretaker, which explains why he doesn't mind his "son" refusing to go to school. Poppo and the rest are real, but they haven't seen him in years and have, in fact, moved on a long time ago. At most, they wonder whatever became of that kid that used to hang out with them when they were younger every now and then.

All of their defects and shortcomings are just Jintan's way of trying to bring them down to his level somehow and he plays these little scenes out in his room with padded walls using some little sock puppets the doctors gave him once.

 

[firehawk12]

And it turns out that it's all a snow globe!

 

[trejo]

And it turns out that it's all a snow globe!

Rosebud?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Ano Hana

The character are all fucked up one way or the other. I would have preferred it if poppo was the main character, he brings so much light to a rather gloomy anime.

 

[Dresden]

Ano Hana

The character are all fucked up one way or the other. I would have preferred it if poppo was the main character, he brings so much light to a rather gloomy anime.

Until you realize that it's all an act to stave off crushing depression.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

People are getting quite creative in here!

But seriously, I hope Ano Hana doesn't pull a fast one with the existence of Menma. With all the hints confirming her real presence as a ghost, trying to go back on that would be lazy writing and would make me retroactively hate the show. I can't stand twists which are not properly hinted.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Until you realize that it's all an act to stave off crushing depression.

Possibly, he might even be the most fucked one of all of them.

 

[firehawk12]

People are getting quite creative in here!

But seriously, I hope Ano Hana doesn't pull a fast one with the existence of Menma. With all the hints confirming her real presence as a ghost, trying to go back on that would be lazy writing and would make me retroactively hate the show. I can't stand twists which are not properly hinted.

I feel like they've set up enough ambiguities to allow a retcon TAH-WEEEEST ending to happen. I hope they don't do it either though.

Rosebud?

Menma is Jinta's father!

 

[hellclerk]

Hidan no Aria 5
Oh, it's just too perfect. It's blending all the classic/cliched elements from action, cheesy romance, and intrigue. It's so utterly unbelievable and yet so utterly perfect. Clothing parachutes fuck yeah. And that hime-cut yandere is the most perfect use ever too. She's so out of place and yet so perfectly placed! It's a show that brings the tropes to their logical extremes! Show of the Goddamned season!

 

[Steroyd]

Haha all this speculation reminds me of the ray romano episode on the simpsons.

On the other hand, maybe everyone else is the hallucination, Menma never died, she is just in some hospital, in a deep coma, all this is her dream and at the end of it, after she has gotten everyone back together, she'll wake up and everyone will be there for her.

Inspired by Fuuko in Clannad.

 

[Articalys]

From May 6 through May 13 there was a user-conducted poll on BIGLOBE to vote on your favorite anime director, with roughly 14,000 participants voting. According to the results, here were the top ten directors:

1) Akiyuki Shinbo (Madoka, Bakemonogatari, Soredemo, everything Shaft has done in the last five years) -- 1,669 votes
2) Yutaka Yamamoto (Fractale, Kannagi) -- 1,565 votes
3) Tatsuyuki Nagai (AnoHana, Railgun, Toradora) -- 1,543 votes
4) Tsutomu Mizushima (Ikamusume, Big Windup) -- 805 votes
5) Yoshiyuki Tomino (Gundam, Dunbine) -- 801 votes
6) Goro Taniguchi (Code Geass, Planetes) -- 558 votes
7) Hayao Miyazaki (Ponyo, Nausicaä) -- 430 votes
8) Hideaki Anno (Evangelion, Kare Kano) -- 412 votes
9) Mamoru Hosoda (The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Summer Wars) -- 352 votes
10) Satoshi Kon (Paprika, Millennium Actress) -- 311 votes

And here are the rest:

11) Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell, Urusei Yatsura) -- 301 votes
12) Junichi Sato (Aria the Animation, Sailor Moon) -- 300 votes
13) Shinji Takamatsu (Gintama, Sora no Manimani) -- 289 votes
14) Makoto Shinkai (5 Centimeters Per Second, Voices of a Distant Star) -- 262 votes
15) Kenji Kamiyama (Eden of the East, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex) -- 246 votes
16) Seiji Kishi (Angel Beats!, Seto no Hanayome) -- 214 votes
17) Osamu Dezaki (Ashita no Joe, Clannad) -- 208 votes
18) Ei Aoki (Hourou Musuko, Ga-Rei: Zero) -- 203 votes
19) Seiji Mizushima (Mobile Suit Gundam 00, Fullmetal Alchemist) -- 200 votes
20) Shoji Kawamori (Aquarion, Super Dimension Fortress Macross: Do You Remember Love?) -- 196 votes
21) Tatsuya Ishihara (Nichijou, The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya) -- 181 votes
22) Tensai Okamura (Ao no Exorcist, Darker than BLACK) -- 179 votes
23) Masaaki Yuasa (The Tatami Galaxy, Mind Game) -- 172 votes
24) Takahiro Omori (Durarara!!, Natsume Yuujinchou) -- 165 votes
25) Shinichiro Watanabe (Samurai Champloo, Cowboy Bebop) -- 155 votes
26) Koji Masunari (Kamichu!, Welcome to THE SPACE SHOW) -- 151 votes
27) Kenji Nakamura (C The Money of Soul and Possibility, Mononoke, Kūchū Buranko) -- 149 votes
28) Junji Nishimura (Simoun, true tears) -- 147 votes
29) Keiichi Satou (Tiger & Bunny, Karas) -- 143 votes
30) Akitaro Daichi (Gag Manga Biyori, Fruits Basket) -- 140 votes
31) Ryousuke Takahashi (Armored Trooper Votoms, Bakumatsu Kikansetsu Irohanihoheto) -- 120 votes
31) Yasuhiro Imagawa (Shin Mazinger Shōgeki! Z-Hen, G Gundam) -- 120 votes
33) Yoshimasa Hiraike (Amagami SS, Working!!) -- 115 votes
34) Katsuhiro Otomo (Akira, Steamboy) -- 111 votes
35) Takuya Igarashi (Star Driver, Ouran High School Host Club) -- 108 votes
36) Isao Takahata (Pom Poko, Jarinko Chie) -- 95 votes
37) Kazuki Akane (Escaflowne: The Movie, Birdy the Mighty Decode) -- 91 votes
38) Yoshitomo Yonetani (Dororon Enma-kun, GaoGaiGar: King of Braves) -- 80 votes
39) Kazuhiro Furuhashi (Mobile Suit Gundam UC, Zipang) -- 78 votes
40) Kenichi Kasai (Bakuman, Honey and Clover) -- 77 votes
41) Koichi Mashimo (tie) (Hyouge Mono, MADLAX) -- 73 votes
41) Tomomi Mochizuki (tie) (Ocean Waves, Twin Spica) -- 73 votes
43) Hiroshi Hamasaki (STEINS;GATE, Texhnolyze) -- 65 votes
44) Hiroaki Sakurai (Kaichō wa Maid-sama!, GA: Geijutsuka Art Design Class) -- 63 votes
45) Yuzo Sato (Kaiji, Tohai Densetu Akagi -Yamini Maiorita Tensai-) -- 62 votes
46) Rintaro (Captain Harlock: Mystery of the Arcadia, Yona Yona Penguin) -- 59 votes
47) Keizou Kusakawa (Dog Days, Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's) -- 57 votes
48) Tetsuro Amino (Break Blade, Macross 7) -- 55 votes
49) Hiroyuki Hoshiyama (Taiyou no Kiba Dougram, Aoki Ryūsei SPT Layzner) -- 42 votes
49) Noboru Ishiguro (Legend of the Galactic Heroes, Tytania) -- 42 votes

(original source ANN)

 

[jman2050]

Bow down to your SHAFT overlords.

 

[firehawk12]

Shinbo smash?

 

[Dresden]

This is the same group of nerds who crowned Angel Beats as the best anime of the 00's, right?

Lol.

 

[Risette]

I think any "best director" list that has Yamakan at #2 obviously had a lot of joke voters.

 

[flawfuls]

Why do people keep reporting on random internet polls? They never give useful information about anything especially with relatively low vote counts like this one.

 

[jman2050]

Pretty sure that entire site is full of joke voters.

 

[trejo]

That list made me lol heartily.

Alternatively, Yamakan got robbed!

 

[Steroyd]

I thought with this being Japan and with how kugiloli's are whored all over the place there'd be more than the only one legitimately good kugiloli show director person up there.

 

[Articalys]

Why do people keep reporting on random internet polls? They never give useful information about anything especially with relatively low vote counts like this one.

The top 50 series poll managed to draw almost 500 posts of discussion with only 4000 votes.

 

[Dynedom]

Tomino and Hosada being in the top 10 at least proves the community that voted on that poll isn't completely batshit crazy.

Edit: Kon too.

Edit 2: Miyazaki being there is a given.

Edit 3: Watanabe at 25? opcorn.gif:

 

[Izayoi]

Tomino and Hosada being in the top 10 at least proves the community that voted on that poll isn't completely batshit crazy.

Edit: Kon too.

Edit 2: Miyazaki being there is a given.

The fact that Kon and Miyazaki aren't 1 and 2 proves they're batshit crazy anyway.

 

[Risette]

Tomino and Hosada being in the top 10 at least proves the community that voted on that poll isn't completely batshit crazy.

Tomino deserves #1 for Garzey's Wing!