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Spring 2014 Anime |OT2| about as likely as a second season of Hyouka

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D

Dedication Through Light

Member
I didnt know Aimer had a collab album coming, need!

Aimer also announced a collaboration album with SawanoHiroyuki [nZk], titled UnChild. Album UnChild releases simultaneously with Midnight Sun on June 25th 2014.

Also Rays Milky Way cd came,lull - earth color of a calm (from the final episode of NagiAsu) is amazing, makes miss it so much Why is Ray so good.
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Hitokage said:
Localization, probably. There are situations where "Mr. Amane" doesn't work in English.
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I can understand that for a dub since subtitles usually aren't needed, but when multiple people are talking and their family names are spoken while their first names are placed in the subtitles a person can become confused to who is actually being addressed unless they memorized all of the casts' full names.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Ice Lightning said:
I can understand that for a dub since subtitles usually aren't needed, but when multiple people are talking and their family names are spoken while their first names are placed in the subtitles a person can become confused to who is actually being addressed unless they memorized all of the casts' full names.
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For subtitles it can be reasonably assumed that the audience doesn't understand the language being spoken.
 
T

ThreePiMatt

Member
Ice Lightning said:
I can understand that for a dub since subtitles usually aren't needed, but when multiple people are talking and their family names are spoken while their first names are placed in the subtitles a person can become confused to who is actually being addressed unless they memorized all of the casts' full names.
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Frankly I wish they just kept the name+honorific in the subtitle as it was spoken. One thing that annoyed the hell out of me in Nisekoi was the subtitles constantly referencing Ms. Kirisaki. Some shows thankfully do it, but Nisekoi stood out in particular where the way the handled it bugged the hell out of me.
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Hitokage said:
For a subtitles it can be reasonably assumed that the audience doesn't understand the language being spoken.
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Sure that can be assumed, but after watching anime for some amount of time I have picked up a few phrases I can recognize without knowing Japanese (especially names). Wouldn't it sound/look strange if every time Luna addressed Usagi Tsukino only by her first name, Usagi, but the subtitles read Tsukino?

I know some viewers get upset when the family name and first name are reversed with subtitles to appear more westernized, but using the first name when the family name is spoken (or even the reverse) is quite confusing.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Ice Lightning said:
Sure that can be assumed, but after watching anime for some amount of time I have picked up a few phrases I can recognize without knowing Japanese (especially names). Wouldn't it sound/look strange if every time Luna addressed Usagi Tsukino only by her first name, Usagi, but the subtitles read Tsukino?

I know some viewers get upset when the family name and first name are reversed with subtitles to appear more westernized, but using the first name when the family name is spoken (or even the reverse) is quite confusing.
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Like I said, there is a pretty distinct cultural difference when it comes to addressing people by name, and when doing a translation you should actually translate, so rather than leaving subtitles in some quasi-English pidgin that conveys meaning that wasn't originally intended, they rewrite the line as if it were in actual English. For example, in English, addressing a classmate as "Mr. Lastname" sounds comically formal and distant. The example you gave is the reverse of the reference you mentioned earlier. Yusuke is a given name, not a family name.
 
A

Articalys

Member
There's also the factor that sometimes whether or not someone's calling somebody else by their first/last name is actually a plot or character development point, so when they go the localization route they'll need to do some extra legwork to account for how to communicate the difference -- if at all -- but admittedly the cases where it's a MAJOR story point are few and far between.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Articalys said:
There's also the factor that sometimes whether or not someone's calling somebody else by their first/last name is actually a plot or character development point, so when they go the localization route they'll need to do some extra legwork to account for how to communicate the difference -- if at all -- but admittedly the cases where it's a MAJOR story point are few and far between.
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Haha, true, conversation in which the subject of discussion is the form of the language itself is always a bitch for translators.
 
N

nintendoman58

Member
Sword Art Online - 5

OH COME ON NOW, REALLY? AGAIN WITH THE TIME JUMP?!?

This show should have been a 100+ episode Shounen! It needed a training arc or something! Some sort of sense of flow that connects these events together! It's only the fifth episode and already like, two years have passed!

Asuna was a timid, but somewhat talented girl at SAO in episode 2. It is now episode 5 and she's now a strict member of a guild with a complete personality change.

THIS IS NOT GOOD CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. You're supposed to have the characters gradually change over the course of the narrative! Not have them vanish for two episodes and have all that change happen off-screen!

Ugh. At least now we have an actual story arc starting now. And it's a murder mystery story of all things.
 
A

Articalys

Member
I mean, personally, I don't mind it as much when they drop honorifics -- since it feels like it's a lot easier to localize around whether or not someone got called with "chan" instead of "san" or no honorific at all, ignoring any Mr./Mrs. stuff unless it would make sense in context, and so forth -- but I definitely prefer them to match up first/last names to what gets spoken, even if the name itself doesn't match up with what might get used in Western culture.

Though another thing I dislike is when for example "onii-san/onee-san" are specifically spoken and subtitles use the target character's name instead of "brother/sister" or some variant thereof.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
You may be shocked and dismayed at the content left out of subtitles. Names and honorifics are just the most obvious ones. :p
 
S

Syrinx

Member
I don't know how much this matters to the discussion, but also keep in mind that they've been aggressively marketing Sailor Moon on Hulu and wherever else, not to mention the mainstream popularity the show already had, so they have to be careful with these subs since it isn't just hardcore anime fans reading them.
 
A

Articalys

Member
Hitokage said:
You may be shocked and dismayed at the content left out of subtitles. Names and honorifics are just the most obvious ones. :p
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Trust me, I'm aware that the mere act of translation into another language itself already reduces the content of any text. The biggest example I can remember was (I think) reading how Monogatari dialogue was basically nothing like how normal people speak at all in Japanese (thanks NisiO!), with no real equivalent in English.
 
E

Eusis

Member
Hitokage said:
For subtitles it can be reasonably assumed that the audience doesn't understand the language being spoken.
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Well, if there's one thing you're likely to actually understand it's when a character's name is being said, assuming the names were left alone (which can be silly if we're talking about subtitles, not that there's never a good reason.)
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Hitokage said:
Like I said, there is a pretty distinct cultural difference when it comes to addressing people by name, and when doing a translation you should actually translate, so rather than leaving subtitles in some quasi-English pidgin that conveys meaning that wasn't originally intended, they rewrite the line as if it were in actual English. For example, in English, addressing a classmate as "Mr. Lastname" sounds comically formal and distant. The example you gave is the reverse of the reference you mentioned earlier. Yusuke is a given name, not a family name.
Click to expand...

I understand I may have been wrong with the Yusuke Amane example, which I believe would prove my point I am trying to explain. While "Oh, Amane-san!" was spoken, I would have preferred the subtitles to read "Oh, Amane!" over "Oh, Yusuke!". I am not demanding that the honorifics are kept in the subtitles, just the names that are spoken are the names that appear in the subtitles. Whatever VIZ decides to do with the English dub in terms of name order is up to them and the Japanese licensors, but I don't see why they won't use the name that is verbally being addressed in the subtitles.

Take a look at the first episode of Honey and Clover at the 2:50 mark. (http://www.hulu.com/watch/84071) While what is spoken is "Mayama senpai...Yo, nanda, Takemoto?" what is in the subtitles is "Takumi senpai...Hey, what's up, Yuta?". Some of the characters' full names haven't even been given! Unless you read the manga, some viewers are going to be wondering what's going on with the names. Does what I am trying to state make sense now?
 
N

Narag

Member
Ice Lightning said:
Some of the characters' full names haven't even been given! Unless you read the manga, some viewers are going to be wondering what's going on with the names. Does what I am trying to state make sense now?
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Not that I have a horse in this race but that seems like something the viewer could infer.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Rewatching my Bebop blu-rays since I'll be seperated from my PS3 for a while soon.

Cowboy the Bebop 5 - "Ballad of Fallen Angels"

This is probably the episode where Bebop really kicks it into high gear for me. The exploration of Spike's backstory and past, the compare/contrast between Julia and Faye, the conflict between Spike and Jet... we begin to see the way Bebop links the inevitability of the past catching up to you, no matter how far you run, and we catch a first glimpse of Vicious. The way the opera scene and the shootout are composed is absolutely stunning.

Cowboy the Bebop 6 - "Sympathy for the Devil"

It's a pity it's immediately followed up with such a weak episode, but I think even this one proves that even when Bebop is weak it's still relatively strong. A lot of this episode is sabotaged because of its short runtime; notably, the 'twist' around the eyecatches and the climax of the piece are not very well done, coming more as infodumps than anything (though I suppose the climax couldn't really have gone any other way). Nonetheless, the execution of the episode - Spike's nightmare overlaid with the harmonica, the various shots of tracking/combat, Jet and Faye's interaction or Jet and Faye 'farewelling' Spike as he leaves to track down the Kid - all standout scenes in a mediocrely plotted episode.
 
D

dakkumauji

Member
Puchimas!! 54-55

bwMKu7Sl.jpg


And now we'll all demand a Puchimas!! fighting game.

Hitsugi no Chaika 09

Still not feeling the subplots but I guess nice to see some backstory.

Shinryaku! Ika Musume 04-06

Noh Mask Rider sounds amazing.

No Game No Life 09

That ending was pretty funny.
 
S

Superflat

Member
Jintor said:
Cowboy the Bebop 6 - "Sympathy for the Devil"

It's a pity it's immediately followed up with such a weak episode, but I think even this one proves that even when Bebop is weak it's still relatively strong. A lot of this episode is sabotaged because of its short runtime; notably, the 'twist' around the eyecatches and the climax of the piece are not very well done, coming more as infodumps than anything (though I suppose the climax couldn't really have gone any other way). Nonetheless, the execution of the episode - Spike's nightmare overlaid with the harmonica, the various shots of tracking/combat, Jet and Faye's interaction or Jet and Faye 'farewelling' Spike as he leaves to track down the Kid - all standout scenes in a mediocrely plotted episode.
Click to expand...

Sympathy for the Devil is one of those episode I subconsciously erase from my mind. I forget it exists until a post like this reminds me of it, or when I decide to re-watch it every couple years.
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Narag said:
Not that I have a horse in this race but that seems like something the viewer could infer.
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I really don't know what else I can say. Sure the viewer could look up the information on MAL/wiki/fanpage, but that's not what I am trying to state. Did you listen and watch the section, assuming you aren't locked out by region-locking? Most viewers should be able to recognize when a name is spoken, as Eusis stated previously. Other examples don't have to come from anime, it could come from an American daytime soap opera's closed-captioning or even the news' CC. If someone is being addressed by their first name put the first name in the subtitles/closed-captioning, and if the family name is addressed instead put the family name in. I know to some this a minor issue and I just wanted this fact to be known.
 
N

Narag

Member
Ice Lightning said:
I really don't know what else I can say. Sure the viewer could look up the information on MAL/wiki/fanpage, but that's not what I am trying to state. Did you listen and watch the section, assuming you aren't locked out by region-locking? Most viewers should be able to recognize when a name is spoken, as Eusis stated previously. Other examples don't have to come from anime, it could come from an American daytime soap opera's closed-captioning or even the news' CC. If someone is being addressed by their first name put the first name in the subtitles/closed-captioning, and if the family name is addressed instead put the family name in. I know to some this a minor issue and I just wanted this fact to be known.
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I just meant it's one person addressing another directly in that scene and someone could infer the name from the subs alone.
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Narag said:
I just meant it's one person addressing another directly in that scene and someone could infer the name from the subs alone.
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Yes, but when sizable group of people are being addressed I would like to have the consistency of the dialogue matching the subtitles. I am not one to remember even main characters' names all the time. All I can do now is hope that VIZ considers the suggestions given to them through their social media sites.
 
J

Jintor

Member
Superflat said:
Sympathy for the Devil is one of those episode I subconsciously erase from my mind. I forget it exists until a post like this reminds me of it, or when I decide to re-watch it every couple years.
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Cowboy the Bebop 7 - "Heavy Metal Queen"

It's interesting you say that, because in many ways I feel like HMQ is a much stronger episode point-for-point but it has less memorable peaks in it. Like the entire bar brawl and stakeout for Decker is fantastic, as is the quick cuts between the Space Truckers, but the rest of the episode - while competently executed - doesn't really have a lot to say about the Crew of the Bebop or even really VT.
 
C

Clov

Member
Articalys said:
Trust me, I'm aware that the mere act of translation into another language itself already reduces the content of any text. The biggest example I can remember was (I think) reading how Monogatari dialogue was basically nothing like how normal people speak at all in Japanese (thanks NisiO!), with no real equivalent in English.
Click to expand...

That sounds pretty interesting! What sort of tone is NisiO creating with his dialogue that isn't coming across in English? I'm curious.
 
R

Rhapsody

Banned
Is the Order a Rabbit 09

Got my weekly dose of moe. Beginning of the season I wasn't expecting much but gave it a shot.
I strangely enjoy it though after each episode.
 
A

Articalys

Member
Clov said:
That sounds pretty interesting! What sort of tone is NisiO creating with his dialogue that isn't coming across in English? I'm curious.
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I apologize, it was from a while ago, so I don't remember the exact source or if it went into further details, though I'm pretty sure I trusted it at the time. Could be mistaken!
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Hitokage said:
How was their name normally given if not in dialogue?
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I stated what was spoken versus what was given in the subtitles in a previous post. (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=114968290&postcount=2021) What is spoken is "Mayama senpai...Yo, nanda, Takemoto?" while what is in the subtitles is "Takumi senpai...Hey, what's up, Yuta?".

I should note that this happens throughout the majority of Honey & Clover. To further note, there's an Amazon review that states the issue I was attempting to present, though harsh it may be.
 
F

fertygo

Member
Ping Pong - 09

Amazing, everything coming together now.. How this can be called boring?
I guess all the actual ping pong stuff does look like shit :/
Taiyou's art >>>>>>>> this lazy repeat animation and fugly comic paneling imitation.
 
I

Ice Lightning

Member
Hitokage said:
But what if he said Yuta originally? How is this any different?
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Then the subtitles would actually make sense.

Even I hear one name and read another, Japanese language takes the following into account.

Articalys said:
There's also the factor that sometimes whether or not someone's calling somebody else by their first/last name is actually a plot or character development point, so when they go the localization route they'll need to do some extra legwork to account for how to communicate the difference -- if at all -- but admittedly the cases where it's a MAJOR story point are few and far between.
Click to expand...
 
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