But WHY would they make sense? Because it corresponds to an explicit introduction previously made in the show? Or is it actually just an implicit introduction just like any time a new name is used in dialogue?
It makes sense because the dialogue and subtitles match. The Honey & Clover example was from the first episode.
I am going to stop this before this becomes debate becomes more heated. There's no need to continue when the parties involved appear to have different understands of the matter. In the beginning I was trying to make viewers aware of how VIZ decided to word the subtitles for Sailor Moon in a certain episode, along with how I felt VIZ should have handled the subtitling. In the end, VIZ is ultimately making the decision no how to handle the subtitles for their licenses.
This is simply my opinion. Everyone has the right to express his or her individual thoughts, but that does not mean such actions will make sense to others and there is no need to be accused of putting no thought and getting hung up over my given examples.
This is tautological, not an actual reason. Sure, it avoids confusion, but the appearance of a name in dialogue, regardless of being spoken or text, can either be understood through past references, present context, or clarification after the fact, and I'm asking where it falls short. You're not putting any thought into this and simply getting hung up over a name in text not matching the bits you hear from the spoken dialogue.
Accel World Season 1
I finished it and I enjoyed it. But man can be Haru a whiny little bitch at times. There were periods where I would just pause and stare at the screen cringing. Though past that I felt it was good. The battles were fun and I enjoyed following the storyline.
Actually, I kinda wish more people had entered the first/last name argument. It could've used a couple more points of view, from either side.
Though the fact that I watch so much anime and am completely used to the social name-addressing norms probably makes me a bad example when it comes to the general consumer they're trying to sell this to.
...By the way, do cases like this (where subtitles override the spoken names with Western naming conventions) happen often, or are they in the minority?
Contrary to my appearances, my intent is not to deride or tear down this show at every turn, but I feel I have to point out that the way the entire cast, roach girl aside, is behaving in this episode is REALLY shitty.
"None of us want to be in theater club, but we'll lie and say we do so you can stop pressuring us into joining it! Now let's get an advisor!"
Advisor man: "Oh rather than tell you no and honor my prior commitment with another class, I will make you resolve this yourself! Because fuck being a responsible adult!"
Other club: "Hey would you please get a different advisor? We found this one first and also we've been trying really hard to make our own club and had to make our own sacrifices to get here."
Sunohara: "FUCK NO THAT IS A HANDICAP AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO THIS SHIT LET ME THROW MY JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUICE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOX."
And basically all Roachgirl's friends are wanting her to take the advisor for herself even though she doesn't actually have any club members and will be taking it away from a club with members. And for some reason the advisor has put the decision in her hands, even though he had a prior commitment with the other club that should have the right to choose instead.
Why are roachgirl's friends so angry when they don't even want to be in this club and stealing an advisor for a club that wouldn't have enough members and would subsequently do nothing would be a really shitty thing to do?
Like, Roachgirl doesn't have to be obsessively self-sacrificing to see that the right thing to do here is to yield her ground, because she doesn't have any legitimate right to take the advisor, who should grow a pair and not leave this decision in the hands of children anyway.
Actually, I kinda wish more people had entered the first/last name argument. It could've used a couple more points of view, from either side.
Though the fact that I watch so much anime and am completely used to the social name-addressing norms probably makes me a bad example when it comes to the general consumer they're trying to sell this to.
Maybe my view is warped now since I speak the language but I cringe at literal translation.
I think Hito has it right. Being beholden to "accuracy" in the face of "suitability" brings us down the slippery slope of keikaku means plan. No one calls someone by their last name in English unless you're really really close and its a joke or you don't know the person at all. We then move into unnatural-ness and how much of that is appropriate in your translation. A native English speaker seeing someone called by their last name will get a very different impression of what is happening on screen that entirely does not exist from the original context. In that case, I think switching it to the first name to properly convey the meaning is the correct move.
I do sympathize with the other side a little bit. It is very difficult to strike a balance especially if the audience is more weaboo-leaning than normal. They might prefer closer to the original Japanese translations instead of over-localization.
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show. Like, Okazaki spent days at Kotomi's house to coax her out. Now he spends almost no time with her.
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show. Like, Okazaki spent days at Kotomi's house to coax her out. Now he spends almost no time with her.
I think this whole arc is what broke me. Spending all those goddamn episodes on the starfish girl and having it go absolutely nowhere was really annoying.
I think this whole arc is what broke me. Spending all those goddamn episodes on the starfish girl and having it go absolutely nowhere was really annoying.
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show. Like, Okazaki spent days at Kotomi's house to coax her out. Now he spends almost no time with her.
This was another stupid episode, but not as stupid as the last. Essentially this was weight watchers which was fairly enjoyable until some shoehorned school budget drama suddenly appeared. What's more is that Kotori and Umi are apparently on the student council too? When the hell was that confirmed in the previous 6 episodes?
Love Live! S2 - 07
What's more is that Kotori and Umi are apparently on the student council too? When the hell was that confirmed in the previous 6 episodes?
Within this episode I just watched I assume? Because before all that I was aware of is that Honoka was in it due to her jarring musical at the beginning.
Maybe my view is warped now since I speak the language but I cringe at literal translation.
I think Hito has it right. Being beholden to "accuracy" in the face of "suitability" brings us down the slippery slope of keikaku means plan. No one calls someone by their last name in English unless you're really really close and its a joke or you don't know the person at all. We then move into unnatural-ness and how much of that is appropriate in your translation. A native English speaker seeing someone called by their last name will get a very different impression of what is happening on screen that entirely does not exist from the original context. In that case, I think switching it to the first name to properly convey the meaning is the correct move.
I do sympathize with the other side a little bit. It is very difficult to strike a balance especially if the audience is more weaboo-leaning than normal. They might prefer closer to the original Japanese translations instead of over-localization.
My perspective is very similar to this. "Accuracy" in a strict sense is largely an illusion, and I don't think you achieve anything meaningful by trying to preserve it. The highest priority should be maintaining the overall meaning of the Japanese through natural-sounding English. Where you land on balance depends to some degree on your audience, but I think that often, the audience requesting more "accuracy" to the Japanese are people who know just enough to recognize things that supposedly "don't match", without knowing enough to understand what the translator is trying to achieve with their choices. So I don't have a problem with changing last names to first names in certain situations, even if it doesn't fit with what you're hearing.
There are a lot of things that can affect what balance you're trying to go for, and getting natural-sounding speech is much more important for a dub than for subtitles. That scale is far from binary, too. For example, to go back to another thing Articalys mentioned earlier, if someone says, "Onii-chan...", there are translators who won't change it, translators who will change it to "Brother..." or "Big brother..." because that's what Onii-chan means, translators who would change it to the character's name because nobody in English-speaking cultures calls their brother "Brother", or translators who might change it to something completely different depending on context ("Hey...") because people in English don't tend to just say someone's name as a way of empathizing during a conversation. And any of those could be right, depending on the situation, the context, and the audience.
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show. Like, Okazaki spent days at Kotomi's house to coax her out. Now he spends almost no time with her.
That's just how visual novel adaptations are. It's hard to make an adaptation that'll go through every route and have everything continue on. They still do a pretty good job of it though, imo. Regardless, they can't just add filler to the story to make him hang out with past girls to make things cohesive while needing to tell the rest of the story. Even the anime couldn't fit every route.
And the writer, Maeda's, humor can be hit or miss at times. Clannad's grew on me as it went on. Some of this stuff like Angel Beats was a miss on humor for me while Little Buster's humor was a hit.
A semi-enjoyable episode for once. Even though it followed the same format of the past two episodes of some comedic random stuff with shoehorned drama coming during the end of the episode, the drama in this one wasn't that contrived, most likely due to the fact it dealt with a broad theme of friendship rather than some stupid crap like school budgets, impact, or some other shit.
I watched it on the recommendation that it was one of the most gut wrenching anime shows out there, so I was at least a little prepared for some of the happenings throughout the show, or at least thought I was.
I think at very least you can compromise the name thing in translating, you can go liberal with dialogue but with name I also not comfortable when translator switching the name.. I'm not even mentioning about when the character mentioning their full name, I'm okay with that but switching out name that not called in actual dialogue is just absurd to me.. What you get with that?
Accel World Season 1
I finished it and I enjoyed it. But man can be Haru a whiny little bitch at times. There were periods where I would just pause and stare at the screen cringing. Though past that I felt it was good. The battles were fun and I enjoyed following the storyline.
Haru is indeed a whiny bitch but thats why KYH is a great character. she puts up with his faults and tries to make him become great, which he eventually kind of does. But she loves him clearly. Plus shes amazingly elegant and cute. Waifu material.
You know who really sucks?
Actually, I kinda wish more people had entered the first/last name argument. It could've used a couple more points of view, from either side.
Though the fact that I watch so much anime and am completely used to the social name-addressing norms probably makes me a bad example when it comes to the general consumer they're trying to sell this to.
...By the way, do cases like this (where subtitles override the spoken names with Western naming conventions) happen often, or are they in the minority?
In my opinion, if its translated into English it should be first names. The last names thing is very Japanese but also very unnatural to english speakers except in a business/client/adult peer basis. Even then most casually speak the first name, which is weird in Japan unless people are close. Its totally backwards but I think the way its being done is fine. It could go either way though. Like take Tsukiko Tsutsukakushi's name for example. Even in the anime, nobody is crazy enough to call her Tsutsukakushi. That sounds dumb and lengthy. Tsukiko is her name. Its short. Its cute. Its her damned name. So in this war I reckon I will go with first names.
OH COME ON NOW, REALLY? AGAIN WITH THE TIME JUMP?!?
This show should have been a 100+ episode Shounen! It needed a training arc or something! Some sort of sense of flow that connects these events together! It's only the fifth episode and already like, two years have passed!
Asuna was a timid, but somewhat talented girl at SAO in episode 2. It is now episode 5 and she's now a strict member of a guild with a complete personality change.
THIS IS NOT GOOD CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. You're supposed to have the characters gradually change over the course of the narrative! Not have them vanish for two episodes and have all that change happen off-screen!
In the original LN, there was just one big timeskip - they had the introductory scene setting up how the whole death game started, and then it leapt forward to the "present" where the main story takes place, following things pretty much continuously towards the conclusion of the first big arc at the end of the novel.
The anime took the liberty of showing things in chronological order, which meant adding in all the extra side stories (which were covered after the fact in later novels to flesh things out) right at the beginning of the series. It makes the pacing feel a bit odd.
(I'm not sure how the pacing was in the original amateur web-novel version of SAO, though.)
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show. Like, Okazaki spent days at Kotomi's house to coax her out. Now he spends almost no time with her.
This is what happens when you take separate routes from a visual novel (each of which follows the typical VN structure in which a specific girl becomes the most important thing in the main character's life and the rest of the cast is relegated to side characters as we follow the MC + focus girl's story to a definite conclusion) and then try to fit them all into a single timeline where all the stories happen one after another. It can feel a little...indecisive.
Thankfully this issue is only present in the first series of Clannad, and is almost entirely absent from After Story (which follows a single route, plus a few smaller side stories at the beginning that don't really impact on anything).
In the original LN, there was just one big timeskip - they had the introductory scene setting up how the whole death game started, and then it leapt forward to the "present" where the main story takes place, following things pretty much continuously towards the conclusion of the first big arc at the end of the novel.
The anime took the liberty of showing things in chronological order, which meant adding in all the extra side stories (which were covered after the fact in later novels to flesh things out) right at the beginning of the series. It makes the pacing feel a bit odd.
(I'm not sure how the pacing was in the original amateur web-novel version of SAO, though.)
Adaptation issues, Part 2!
This is what happens when you take separate routes from a visual novel (each of which follows the typical VN structure in which a specific girl becomes the most important thing in the main character's life and the rest of the cast is relegated to side characters as we follow the MC + focus girl's story to a definite conclusion) and then try to fit them all into a single timeline where all the stories happen one after another. It can feel a little...indecisive.
Thankfully this issue is only present in the first series of Clannad, and is almost entirely absent from After Story (which follows a single route, plus a few smaller side stories at the beginning that don't really impact on anything).
Not bad. Relatively inoffensive for a Tom Cruise movie, and it was entertaining watching him die over and over. Not a particularly outstanding or unique film though. Pretty by the books, with unimaginative designs for the equipment and the aliens. The humor is pretty good though. Googling the synopsis for the original book tells me that the story there was much more interesting than the Hollywood action movie it became. Oh well.
Not bad. Relatively inoffensive for a Tom Cruise movie, and it was entertaining watching him die over and over. Not a particularly outstanding or unique film though. Pretty by the books, with unimaginative designs for the equipment and the aliens. The humor is pretty good though. Googling the synopsis for the original book tells me that the story there was much more interesting than the Hollywood action movie it became. Oh well.
Some of the characters' full names haven't even been given! Unless you read the manga, some viewers are going to be wondering what's going on with the names. Does what I am trying to state make sense now?
regardless of which name is used, first or last, even when the subs use one while the spoken dialogue uses the other, the context is identical so there is no reason why the subs using yusuke while the dialogue says Sakamoto-san or whatever is any less effective. So long as internal consistency is kept, the issue just doesn't exist.
to clarify further, if you don't know what a character's name is, you infer it from the dialogue. Not counting subtitles for the deaf/hard of hearing, subtitles are used when there is an expectation that the viewer does not understand the language being spoken. Thus, in anime, the dialogue is provided for you via the subs, not the audio track. Assuming you can read, it's just as easy to infer a character's name from the subtitles as it is by listening.
Also in Clannad it pisses me off that they made a huge, emotional deal out of
Fuko being forgotten and going away and essentially dying, only for her to keep coming back whenever. Like they wanted to remove her from the permanent cast but keep her around for jokes. Every time it happens it cheapens that arc's ending and makes me less trusting of any other emotional consequences in the show.
Worst part of the first season right there. I think from this point onwards it doesn't happen any more. I think, anyway. It's been a while since I last saw this show. I could be wrong.
In the original LN, there was just one big timeskip - they had the introductory scene setting up how the whole death game started, and then it leapt forward to the "present" where the main story takes place, following things pretty much continuously towards the conclusion of the first big arc at the end of the novel.
The anime took the liberty of showing things in chronological order, which meant adding in all the extra side stories (which were covered after the fact in later novels to flesh things out) right at the beginning of the series. It makes the pacing feel a bit odd.
(I'm not sure how the pacing was in the original amateur web-novel version of SAO, though.)
Well that at least explains episode 3 and how it felt like a bad one-shot fanfic. It felt like it was some kind of reminder episode to how deadly SAO was. Because you know, we certainly needed a reminder after two episodes.
Worst part of the first season right there. I think from this point onwards it doesn't happen any more. I think, anyway. It's been a while since I last saw this show. I could be wrong.
Well that at least explains episode 3 and how it felt like a bad one-shot fanfic. It felt like it was some kind of reminder episode to how deadly SAO was. Because you know, we certainly needed a reminder after two episodes.
I'm already disappointed because I thought this was supposed to be the good part of SAO!
Worst part of the first season right there. I think from this point onwards it doesn't happen any more. I think, anyway. It's been a while since I last saw this show. I could be wrong.
Good, but predictable. It's all coming together... and at the same time, as it comes together it can be seen clearly, without any surprises.
Peco has powered up to be at the same height as Smile, he has a knee injury but he will go on risking himself because his great friend will be waiting for him in the finals, Smile has been waiting for him, for the hero to return, and now that it has done there is a sense of inevitability in the end. The only question is who of the two will win. Or more exactly, will Smile will try to win at 100% or again his lack of drive to win and his loyalty to Peco will make him lose. Maybe he will try to win but in a way that he doesn't use up the injured knee of the opponent.
Man the 2nd half just so much fun.. the gang's hijinks just so amusing especially the role switching stuff, reminded me these seiyuu are amazing at their job.. the performances also fun, Nozomi always got the best costume <3
This what i call a very good episode, not only because they put Megu-chan in a wedding dress , not because a big part of the cast ride their character tropes almost perfectly but because they are perfectly using ALL the anime clichées possible to tell a Very good story at his core and an almost masterfull execution.
New member get !! And why is megu keeping the wedding dress when even souta had time to change ?
It is now obvious that the chain of power at play is quite big and the anime is using that as forshadowing for events that can take me by surprise because as clichés as they are i'm unable to predict them..
In short it's so freaking good to enjoy an anime that does thing well within his own sphere of influence and manage to be entertaining because of it.
Well , now it's obvious the MC will die at the end of this anime it's a shame since he managed to assemble a pretty big "party" to tackle on the last boss but is it gonna be enough ?
