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[AnathemicOne]

Oh yes, because making it that

Spoiler

the woman deserved it

would have totally not brought it's own set of issues (and that sort of ending would have, let's not kid ourselves) that Alternetive Universe you wouldn't have brought up because of the mad quest to recognise SAO Is the worst anime of all time even when the likes of IGPX, Mahoka, Wixross and Madoka Rebellion stalk the night.

It's a proctorial cop drama sort of two parter. Castle with the numbers filed off (It even goes for some of Castle's more goofy humour what with Sandwich and everything)

And I know what you're going to say and no. You say the canned response about how that demeans even Castle and I will end every last one of the anime on this thread.

I'm dead serious, I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Batterou.

It is to that franchise what Nadieso: Prince of Darkness is to Nadesico; an unnecessary sequel that only exists to make the victories that were fought long and hard for moot in the name of sequels that may or may not exist and to do so puts a big ol' smeer of shit over the events and messages of the original work and to potentialy leave it at the state of play that film brings is a horrific ending to the Madoka continuity.

Spoiler

"Surprise all of existence! You're all just prisoners in my bird cage for my lover who will live her life in a moé bubble for all eternity!" (So, you know, have fun with that when she dies of old age, you insane bint)

It is a tarnish on Shaft's reputation (such as it is) and Gen's careerer.

SAO Fairy Dance Is better than Rebellion.

Hell at least Prince of Darkness had the Black Selena III theme

Here is the thought that's being provoked;
"Hey guys, remember that poignant ending to Madoka that was just right in terms of bittersweet and happy? Well fuck you cuz we have figures of Homura in a bittchin' new black ensemble to sell and maybe another fucking Moesploition show to make only with Madoka characters so we can have jokes at a character's expense by having her meet misfortune with cakes or something. Buy all our playsets and toys!"

Rebellion is Endless Eight.

Oh huh. Maybe they should have ether A) Left it the fuck alone or B) had gone with what Gen had in mind (

Spoiler

Homura being Vallhala'd

) and not C) Told gen to write some bullshit to extend the franchise because, again, I point to Nadiesco as proof of how that can go horribly wrong.

Oh geeze the hyperbole is real. Let's dissect this.

So from what I understand in your opinion Rebellion fits with the likes of "bad anime" which you have noted as Wixoss and Mahouka, the topic brought up in defense of SAO. That's pretty heavy and people will wonder what the reason is for such classification. You continue on and state that Rebellion is an unnecessary extension of the franchise and its theme directly conflicts and nullifies the series' original theme; understandable.

However, with the reasons stated previously, does that make Rebellion a bad movie/anime? Well the first reason of being necessary is not even a valid reason, see Fate/Zero which wasn't really necessary given what people were given in the first Fate/Stay Night series. So all we have left is the conflicting of themes. I'll grant you that Rebellion did a complete 180 in its theme in contrast to the original series, but why is this necessarily a bad thing? Looking at the movie objectively it was pretty damn well executed and its narrative fit well with connecting the original series, not to mention many people (myself included) applaud Rebellion; of course this doesn't nullify those who disagreed with the movie.

So to boil it all down Rebellion is a controversial film yet few deny (actually I haven't seen any deny) that it wasn't executed well. So all we have left are opinions (note that said opinions are subjective) regarding the conflicting themes. So what I'm getting is that since you are that of an opinion of disagreeing with Rebellion then its "bad" fitting with the classification of "bad" that anime such as Wixoss and Mahouka have? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[UrbanRats]

I just finished (yesterday) my Cowboy Bebop marathon.
I hadn't watched the series since it first aired here, and i was (barely) a teen.

I absolutely loved it as a kid of course, but i figured with time it would've aged, or something, instead i still "felt the feels".
Pretty great animation, too.

There were a couple of eye-rolling moments, but overall i was impressed how good of a balance between self-irony and drama they striked.
--
Now i'll probably marathon all of Ghost in the Shell (movies and all) which would also be a re-watch, and finally get to Evangelion which, instead, i haven't seen yet.


Also sorry if this isn't the right thread for this, didn't find any other AnimeGAF thread.

 

[Conan-san]

I'm generally sympathetic to the frustrations one has when they feel that a franchise they love was ruined (obligatory Tenchi OVA3 mention because no I will never let it go), but when dealing with something as hugely successful as Rebellion being a staunch opponent becomes something of an uphill battle.

Oh god, Tenchi Ova 3 had only one thing and that was that Game of Death parody in one of the radio dramas and that is about it.

And I know what you're saying, I really do but I'm not going to lie though my teeth and say that Rebellion did anything good for Madoka as a story just because it's financially successful.

So to boil it all down Rebellion is a controversial film yet few deny (actually I haven't seen any deny) that it wasn't executed well. So all we have left are opinions (note that said opinions are subjective) regarding the conflicting themes. So what I'm getting is that since you are that of an opinion of disagreeing with Rebellion then its "bad" fitting with the classification of "bad" that anime such as Wixoss and Mahouka have? Am I understanding this correctly?

Yes, it's all under the same banner.
They're bad for different reasons; Wixross is a badly done Madoka clone (in the same way that one could classify a lot of post Evangelion mech shows as 'badly done Eva clones') that has holes in it's story you could drive a semi though, Mahouka is badly done adaptation of a work that is at least controversial in it's views and seems to be coasting purely on it's sis-con and Mary Sue content and Rebellion is bad because it took a story that had concluded and did everything in it's power to reverse that conclusion for reasons that ether elude me or make me see red. Hell, in the interests of fairness SAO Fairy Dance is bad because it took a story that was rough and from all indications didn't give it the proper workings that the first story seemed to have (and actively omitted entertaining content in favour of more pandering material)

 

[PdotMichael]

I never thought of Rebellion as anything other than a fanservice movie so I don’t get some of the critics. The series was finished, there was no way to continue it, but they still tried to because of its success. It was made for the fans, so they could see their beloved characters once again, what’s wrong with that?

Though they didn't rewrite the personality of the key character of the franchise based on all the HomuHomu yurifanwank stories and gave her the yuriwalhalla ending.
I think the movie didn't do a bad job in showing the difference between her canon personality and all the fancreated stuff.

 

[Mokoi]

I liked the rebellion movie. The shows ending fine as is it was, but movie was far from bad. I thought the whole change in theme from homura trying to save madoka to

Spoiler

imprisoning her was great.

. The production values were good, especially the gun battle scene. As has already been said, the movie was basically just one big fan service film. They didn't half ass it though. Also Homura did nothing wrong.

 

[Hitokage]

Though they didn't rewrite the personality of the key character of the franchise based on all the HomuHomu yurifanwank stories and gave her the yuriwalhalla ending.
I think the movie didn't do a bad job in showing the difference between her canon personality and all the fancreated stuff.

Considering what we know of the writing process this is a suspect point to make.

 

[PdotMichael]

Considering what we know of the writing process this is a suspect point to make.

Do you refer to Gen's first idea of the more simple walhalla ending?

 

[Hitokage]

Do you refer to Gen's first idea of the more simple walhalla ending?

Yeah, which messes with the dichotomy you're describing there.

 

[sonicmj1]

Though they didn't rewrite the personality of the key character of the franchise based on all the HomuHomu yurifanwank stories and gave her the yuriwalhalla ending.
I think the movie didn't do a bad job in showing the difference between her canon personality and all the fancreated stuff.

I dunno, she seems like fanwank pantsu-on-head stalker Homura to me.

 

[PdotMichael]

Yeah, which messes with the dichotomy you're describing there.

Well, that would imply that Gen was the only one in charge of the story of the Madoka movie although we know that they went with Shinbo's idea and the story is the result of the team.

The fact that they decided against a happy ending proves that the movies was supposed to be more than just giving the fans 90min more of their beloved characters.

 

[Hitokage]

I dunno, she seems like fanwank pantsu-on-head stalker Homura to me.

Haha, yeah.

 

[cajunator]

Weekly sales for May 26 - June 1:

http://www.someanithing.com/?p=1499

New and ending series:

- Puchimas S2 starts off with 2,883 BDs for vol.1, way down from S1 because it didn't come in two versions loaded with extras this time around.
- Knights of Sidonia debuts its first volume with 5,971 BDs. Let's see if it can stay as consistent as Arpeggio did.

- Tonari no Seki-kun starts and finishes its two-volume DVD release in a single week with a 1,188 average between them (they only differed by 21 anyway).

- Infinite Stratos S2 finished up seven volumes with a 16,263 average, about a 50% drop from S1 -- and that's even with the first volume's abnormally higher sales.
- Non Non Biyori ends a six-volume run with a commendable 8,291 average, making it one of the best-selling non-K-On cute-girls-doing-cute-things series ever. And we already know it's getting a S2 so that's certainly not all for today.
- White Album 2 ends with a 3,103 BD-only average across six volumes
- Valvrave S2 closes out six volumes with a 4,170 average. S1 had a six-volume average of 5,689, so across the entire series that's a twelve-volume average of about 4,930.
- Unbreakable Machine-Doll spins through its six volumes with a 4,093 average.
- Freezing S2 only gets a 2,239 average for six volumes, a big drop from the first season's 5,300.
- Finally, in the poor unloved realm of BD-only sub-2k sales, Yuushibu can only scrounge up a 1,485 average, while BlazBlue Alter Memory gets Astral Finished at a mere 1,255.


As always, plenty more numbers and information at the link.

Non Non Biyori sales make me immensely, ridiculously happy. NYANPASU!
Yuusibu sales make me a bit sad because I really really like it and I love Fino. Shes such a cutie. I hope it gets a release here.

Don't doubt Kawamori when it comes to these things. And yeah. Basara becomes much more entertaining as the show gets wackier and wackier. Though Gamlin actually grew on me as the series went along.

I never doubt Kawamori after AKB0048. He is a god.

So earlier I asked about best shounen OPs, but this time I have a different question: what OP (not just from shounen shows) gets you the most pumped up with energy, most excited for the show to start?

Heres a few of them that got me excited to watch. Im a fan of the classic 90s rock sound to pump me up for a show. Nostalgia hits me super hard too.
Oh god I love these so fucking much.

Gunsmith Cats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7HPyUcy37I

Bubblegum Crisis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQgq7465rz0

Angelic Layer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R6Gp7kKKlA

Nadesico
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO-rQ1TJjmM

Magic Knight Rayearth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFV9HK455Rw

Nukunuku OVA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utucEYB4nFs

Outlaw Star
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrjUj-FRorY

Elemental Gelade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRh7nIziBAA

Kiddy Grade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FDBhjGLD58

Shangri La
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50LzlGP5rk8

Stellvia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa4_GWlIUOY

Steins Gate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6gXtdbJB50

I mention several of these a lot because Im 100% in love with these openings

I'll get this out of the way; overall, I really like Madoka Rebellion. It certainly has some problems, and it can't really measure up to the TV series it came from, but I still liked it. I know a lot of people don't like it for a variety of reasons, and that's fine. I don't mind if others don't like it.

But saying it's worse than SAO? One of the worst of all time? Come on. That's just plain silly.

No way in hell is it worse than SAO.

Maybe you should just stop being a crybaby.

edit:

I couldn't care less if you don't like something. But your voice of authority thing is highly annoying. Also anything except a "reset" ending would be against the premise of the Madoka series.

I liked Rebellion a lot. It took balls to do that and they went full bore. Plus it has the cakey song. Fuck the haters I thought it was grand. My money said the rest.

I just finished (yesterday) my Cowboy Bebop marathon.
I hadn't watched the series since it first aired here, and i was (barely) a teen.

I absolutely loved it as a kid of course, but i figured with time it would've aged, or something, instead i still "felt the feels".
Pretty great animation, too.

There were a couple of eye-rolling moments, but overall i was impressed how good of a balance between self-irony and drama they striked.
--
Now i'll probably marathon all of Ghost in the Shell (movies and all) which would also be a re-watch, and finally get to Evangelion which, instead, i haven't seen yet.


Also sorry if this isn't the right thread for this, didn't find any other AnimeGAF thread.

Its a great series. Perhaps overrated over time, but it deserves a place in anime history. While being episodic to a degree it did tell a story throughout and was masterfully crafted in every way. The English dub was outstanding and the characters are unforgettable. One of the best.

 

[striferser]

So earlier I asked about best shounen OPs, but this time I have a different question: what OP (not just from shounen shows) gets you the most pumped up with energy, most excited for the show to start?

Mazinger Z


Ai Wo Torimodose ->it's from the movie Hokuto no Ken


Butterfly- Digimon

Rewritte Full Metal Alchemist

For recent show

Tada Hitori
Jojo Sono Chi no Sadame

 

[Branduil]

I just finished (yesterday) my Cowboy Bebop marathon.
I hadn't watched the series since it first aired here, and i was (barely) a teen.

I absolutely loved it as a kid of course, but i figured with time it would've aged, or something, instead i still "felt the feels".
Pretty great animation, too.

There were a couple of eye-rolling moments, but overall i was impressed how good of a balance between self-irony and drama they striked.
--
Now i'll probably marathon all of Ghost in the Shell (movies and all) which would also be a re-watch, and finally get to Evangelion which, instead, i haven't seen yet.


Also sorry if this isn't the right thread for this, didn't find any other AnimeGAF thread.

It's okay to post about older anime here, but it wouldn't hurt to put more dinosaurs in your posts.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Oh god, Tenchi Ova 3 had only one thing and that was that Game of Death parody in one of the radio dramas and that is about it.

And I know what you're saying, I really do but I'm not going to lie though my teeth and say that Rebellion did anything good for Madoka as a story just because it's financially successful.


Yes, it's all under the same banner.
They're bad for different reasons; Wixross is a badly done Madoka clone (in the same way that one could classify a lot of post Evangelion mech shows as 'badly done Eva clones') that has holes in it's story you could drive a semi though, Mahouka is badly done adaptation of a work that is at least controversial in it's views and seems to be coasting purely on it's sis-con and Mary Sue content and Rebellion is bad because it took a story that had concluded and did everything in it's power to reverse that conclusion for reasons that ether elude me or make me see red. Hell, in the interests of fairness SAO Fairy Dance is bad because it took a story that was rough and from all indications didn't give it the proper workings that the first story seemed to have (and actively omitted entertaining content in favour of more pandering material)

What I'm getting here is that you either have a very broad definition what's considered "bad" and/or a nebulous definition of what's considered "bad". Both scenarios are very poor ways of applying judgement on being objective on a minimal level. Just because you didn't agree with the theme doesn't mean it's a bad film/movie.

But I'll humor you, because why not? In my opinion Rebellion is an excellent movie and reuses the overarching breaking and rebuilding a genre aspect present in the original series and expands from that premise, in this case in regards to its theme. The first series was prided as straying way from the magical girl trope anime and bringing in a gritty dark narrative built off aspects of realism. Rebellion adds on to this in taking a theme of bittersweet closure and transforming it to a theme of fanatic love built off both attachment and deception and what could entail from it. Thus Rebellion as it stands is not only an excellent film/anime but a natural extension of the franchise.

 

[cajunator]

What I'm getting here is that you either have a very broad definition what's considered "bad" and/or a nebulous definition of what's considered "bad". Both scenarios are very poor ways of applying judgement on being objective on a minimal level. Just because you didn't agree with the theme doesn't mean it's a bad film/movie.

But I'll humor you, because why not? In my opinion Rebellion is an excellent movie and reuses the overarching breaking and rebuilding a genre aspect present in the original series and expands from that premise, in this case in regards to its theme. The first series was prided as straying way from the magical girl trope anime and bringing in a gritty dark narrative built off aspects of realism. Rebellion adds on to this in taking a theme of bittersweet closure and transforming it to a theme of fanatic love built off both attachment and deception and what could entail from it. Thus Rebellion as it stands is not only an excellent film/anime but a natural extension of the franchise.

I gotta agree with you on this one. Just because someone doesnt like the direction it went doesnt change the quality of the movie. Production values for a shaft production were quite solid and it was a coherent plot. That it aggravated some people is of no consequence to how well it was made. Was it a cash grab? Absolutely. But it was worth the money to me, and ultimately thats the deciding factor here. It made money for Shaft so they can move on to other projects.

 

[Conan-san]

But I'll humor you, because why not? In my opinion Rebellion is an excellent movie and reuses the overarching breaking and rebuilding a genre aspect present in the original series and expands from that premise, in this case in regards to its theme. The first series was prided as straying way from the magical girl trope anime and bringing in a gritty dark narrative built off aspects of realism. Rebellion adds on to this in taking a theme of bittersweet closure and transforming it to a theme of fanatic love built off both attachment and deception and what could entail from it. Thus Rebellion as it stands is not only an excellent film/anime but a natural extension of the franchise.

My argument is that they had that bitter-sweet closure of the series, it was done and not much could be added to it without tearing the metaphorical book open and putting it in a blender.

(Series Spoilers)

Spoiler

We never needed to see Homura get taken by Goddess Madoka (as Gen's original draft for Rebellion would have put it) because we knew it was going to happen eventually post the events of the series. All Homura needed to do to get back to Madoka was, quite literately, wait the clock out and that would be it. Thing's done and over with, she gets to do lesbian cars with Madoka until the heat death of the universe, Kyubey is forever stuck serving the universe to prevent said heat death and everyone (bar Kyubey) is happy.

(Rebellion Spoilers)

Spoiler

But due to some dubious fuckery with Kyubey, she suddenly becomes Madoka's Underpants on Head Homura with a fresh side order of Psychopath and now wants to own Madoka and put her in her own little birdcage where she can live out a life free of everything bad (at the cost of every other person and thing being additional window-dressing to Madoka's birdcage but hey, fuck them, they're not Madoka) and basically become the villain of the story.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to say that is some wonderful new addition to the story because it's not. It rips open old wounds and pours salt in where the original put that wonder-gel stuff from Trauma Centre in there and then closed the wound, yes the wound had scarring but one become better from having that wound.

I can't say the same of Rebellion.

Bringing everything back to what started this; You're asking to turn Homura into the

Spoiler

mad dog

that was proposed to 'fix' the problem with episode 6 of SAO to 'fix' the "problem" of Madoka not having a squeal.

 

[cajunator]

A few more just outside my top openings list. Still great energetic openings worthy of a listen. So much great anime opening music out there.

My Hime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_jkzJdKPM

Simoun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbXGvku8dug

Noir
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch8QLdBiDqI

Hyper Police
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lth9xa4elk

Those who Hunt Elves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIO6UiSW5Kk

 

[AnathemicOne]

My argument is that they had that bitter-sweet closure of the series, it was done and not much could be added to it without tearing the metaphorical book open and putting it in a blender.

(Series Spoilers)

Spoiler

We never needed to see Homura get taken by Goddess Madoka (as Gen's original draft for Rebellion would have put it) because we knew it was going to happen eventually post the events of the series. All Homura needed to do to get back to Madoka was, quite literately, wait the clock out and that would be it. Thing's done and over with, she gets to do lesbian cars with Madoka until the heat death of the universe, Kyubey is forever stuck serving the universe to prevent said heat death and everyone (bar Kyubey) is happy.

(Rebellion Spoilers)

Spoiler

But due to some dubious fuckery with Kyubey, she suddenly becomes Madoka's Underpants on Head Homura with a fresh side order of Psychopath and now wants to own Madoka and put her in her own little birdcage where she can live out a life free of everything bad (at the cost of every other person and thing being additional window-dressing to Madoka's birdcage but hey, fuck them, they're not Madoka) and basically become the villain of the story.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to say that is some wonderful new addition to the story because it's not. It rips open old wounds and pours salt in where the original put that wonder-gel stuff from Trauma Centre in there and then closed the wound, yes the wound had scarring but one become better from having that wound.

I can't say the same of Rebellion.

Sure the series never needed an extension, however this is not a reason to nullify a possible extension in any way. If so, then Fate/Zero would never exist (see the original Fate/Stay Night anime).

As for not being able to add anything further on it, that's just being conservative off a basis of ignorance. Let's keep in mind that Kyubey from the original series

Spoiler

was the primary instigator of all the despair of the story

, thus it is only natural for an extension to bring him in again fulfilling the same role rather than adding in a completely new character, thus it is hardly surprising why things in Rebellion played out the way it did.

Again, it's fine and dandy not to believe Rebellion didn't play out in a way you wanted and that you disagree with it. However, this reasoning (and as detailed above) is not valid in applying judgement on the film/anime objectively. Yes it was a cash grab, yes it pandered fans, but on that same token what sort of extension of any franchise doesn't?

Bringing everything back to what started this; You're asking to turn Homura into the

Spoiler

mad dog

that was proposed to 'fix' the problem with episode 6 of SAO to 'fix' the "problem" of Madoka not having a squeal.

I'm not asking Homura to turn into anything, but I do believe that how Homura was portrayed and what she done fit perfectly fine into the character that was originally introduced in the TV series.

 

[Conan-san]

The difference is Fate/Zero (as far as I'm aware, anyway) didn't take anything away from Fate/Stay Night whilst Rebellion took away from Homura's story (and Madoka's by proxy).

Both characters had concluded pretty well given everything that had happened; Madoka took agency of her story for a second time and through it ended what was a terrible system and Homura grew (to some extent) to accept that Madoka did that. In short she grew the fuck up and let the fuck go and became a better person by story's end.

 

[cajunator]

Sure the series never needed an extension, however this is not a reason to nullify a possible extension in any way. If so, then Fate/Zero would never exist (see the original Fate/Stay Night anime).

As for not being able to add anything further on it, that's just being conservative off a basis of ignorance. Let's keep in mind that Kyubey from the original series

Spoiler

was the primary instigator of all the despair of the story

, thus it is only natural for an extension to bring him in again fulfilling the same role rather than adding in a completely new character, thus it is hardly surprising why things in Rebellion played out the way it did.

Again, it's fine and dandy not to believe Rebellion didn't play out in a way you wanted and that you disagree with it. However, this reasoning (and as detailed above) is not valid in applying judgement on the film/anime objectively. Yes it was a cash grab, yes it pandered fans, but on that same token what sort of extension of any franchise doesn't?



I'm not asking Homura to turn into anything, but I do believe that how Homura was portrayed and what she done fit perfectly fine into the character that was originally introduced in the TV series.

She was already insanely obsessive. Im not sure how else she's supposed to be viewed. I mean look what she did in the show

Spoiler

in a endless time loop just for the sake of saving one girl

. It really isnt beyond the realm of possibility for the events of the movie to take place. I love that they actually went there.

 

[AnathemicOne]

The difference is Fate/Zero (as far as I'm aware, anyway) didn't take anything away from Fate/Stay Night whilst Rebellion took away from Homura's story (and Madoka's by proxy).

Both characters had concluded pretty well given everything that had happened; Madoka took agency of her story for a second time and through it ended what was a terrible system and Homura grew (to some extent) to accept that Madoka did that. In short she grew the fuck up and let the fuck go and became a better person by story's end.

By "taking a story away" I assume you mean a clash of themes, I don't see how this is a terrible thing as like I stated the original series was prided as a clash of narratives a magical girl anime can take. Given this precedence why couldn't themes in multiple installments of the franchise clash against each other?

Yes the original series had enjoyable arcs of character growth. Rebellion also gives further character growth into Homura

Spoiler

not only turning into a villain but also realizing this and accepting her newfound self.

"Becoming a better person" is not a requirement of character growth nor a requirement of enjoying a character in general.

 

[cajunator]

I dont understand why a movie matter so much. Its easily skipped and you either can or cant accept it as canon. But who cares really? You can just opt out of watching it entirely and just enjoy the original series and how it ended. Many things have been "ruined" by extending them or jumping a shark but it doesnt mean you have to WATCH those things!

 

[Conan-san]

You know, you're right.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Yozakura Quartet: Hana no Uta

Did they change their mind? They'd said the lacked the money for it recently.


Maybe someone spot them a bowl of ramen and some rubber bands in an aniplex drinking trip and they got to make it.


Why must you hate on good things?

Hey man I'm all about that hometown but not on teenage anime girls.

 

[PsionBolt]

Huh. I actually just watched Rebellion last night and was going to ask what y'all thought about it.

Guess I missed the train on that one.

 

[Narag]

Shin Great Mazinger never

Day ruined.

 

[AnathemicOne]

Huh. I actually just watched Rebellion last night and was going to ask what y'all thought about it.

Guess I missed the train on that one.

True, but you can also post your reaction to it!

 

[Narag]

So earlier I asked about best shounen OPs, but this time I have a different question: what OP (not just from shounen shows) gets you the most pumped up with energy, most excited for the show to start?

Mazinger Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKshSa-qWA
Shin Mazinger Z OP1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-55YJpaDys
Mazinkaiser SKL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5o0KaXDlzY
Skull Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9O3ECHAMfY
Turn A Gumdam OP1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpqwY7tsZS4
Big O: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7_Od9CmTu0
Gundam 00 S1 OP2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuV8Jd3au8A
Samurai Champloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OuRajFzMYI
SRW The Inspector: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcxXfWHL4qc
Armored Trooper VOTOMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8hwDQJRU7E
Galactic Cyclone Bryger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKj_YbKZyB0 (I had no idea a clean version of this was uploaded nowadays. all dat Kanada)

These get me in the right mood for a show and I rarely skip them. Not all hot blooded but they get me pumped all the same.

 

[cajunator]

Mazinger Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKshSa-qWA
Shin Mazinger Z OP1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-55YJpaDys
Mazinkaiser SKL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5o0KaXDlzY
Skull Man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9O3ECHAMfY
Turn A Gumdam OP1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpqwY7tsZS4
Big O: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7_Od9CmTu0
Gundam 00 S1 OP2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuV8Jd3au8A
Samurai Champloo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OuRajFzMYI
SRW The Inspector: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcxXfWHL4qc
Armored Trooper VOTOMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8hwDQJRU7E
Galactic Cyclone Bryger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKj_YbKZyB0 (I had no idea a clean version of this was uploaded nowadays. all dat Kanada)

These get me in the right mood for a show and I rarely skip them. Not all hot blooded but they get me pumped all the same.

The ones I posted werent all hot blooded but they are energetic and really hyped me up for the show (and it typically delivered)

 

[sonicmj1]

By "taking a story away" I assume you mean a clash of themes, I don't see how this is a terrible thing as like I stated the original series was prided as a clash of narratives a magical girl anime can take. Given this precedence why couldn't themes in multiple installments of the franchise clash against each other?

Yes the original series had enjoyable arcs of character growth. Rebellion also gives further character growth into Homura

Spoiler

not only turning into a villain but also realizing this and accepting her newfound self.

"Becoming a better person" is not a requirement of character growth nor a requirement of enjoying a character in general.

I can see how the end of Rebellion works thematically with the character arcs in Madoka.

Spoiler

While the series is about Madoka and her choice, by moving the movie to Homura's perspective, it makes sense that her obsession might drive her to undo Madoka's choice to achieve what she wants.

What bothered me was how the ending intersected with the other themes of the series, namely how everything has a cost, and how magic can't make your problems go away for free.

Spoiler

It makes sense that Homura would want Madoka back. But she made her wish, and she can't get more than she can win by her own hands. But suddenly at the end, love becomes the sort of magical power that can literally rewrite the laws of the universe at will just to make Homura's goals a reality. Not to trivialize what Homura went through to escape her soul gem, but is that really all it takes? Madoka's sacrifice took her entire existence, and the death of hundreds of alternate universes. Homura gets to be omnipotent just by loving Madoka really, really hard?

I don't like that shift in direction, and I don't like what it represents.

 

[PsionBolt]

True, but you can also post your reaction to it!

It was very nice visually. Cinematic-level Shaft is an amazing thing.
As for the plot,

Spoiler

I think it was a suitable continuation of the series. I was somewhat dissatisfied with the series ending, so if I had to choose, I think I like Rebellion's ending a tiny bit more.
I quite enjoyed having a thoroughly selfish protagonist. I definitely think that it was a logical progression of her character. I don't think assertions that she became fan-mode HomuHomu are accurate; if that was the case, the result would have been more like Aoki Ume's ending.

As a couple of minor nitpicks, I didn't like

Spoiler

how the movie treated witches. Sayaka using her witch mode like a Stand and Charlotte using hers seemingly just for fun were pretty dumb.
I also found the QBs' God-can't-get-through-this force-field thingy pretty ridiculous. They clearly could get through it when they really tried, so it seems like the whole movie wouldn't have happened if Madoka / Sayaka / Charlotte just took things a bit more seriously at the beginning.

Overall, I enjoyed it. About as much as the series, maybe a small bit less. I went into it with a general understanding that GAF quite disliked it, so I was pleasantly surprised.

Spoiler

It makes sense that Homura would want Madoka back. But she made her wish, and she can't get more than she can win by her own hands. But suddenly at the end, love becomes the sort of magical power that can literally rewrite the laws of the universe at will just to make Homura's goals a reality. Not to trivialize what Homura went through to escape her soul gem, but is that really all it takes? Madoka's sacrifice took her entire existence, and the death of hundreds of alternate universes. Homura gets to be omnipotent just by loving Madoka really, really hard?

I don't like that shift in direction, and I don't like what it represents.

I also didn't find that aspect too satisfying, but I don't think it was out of line.

Spoiler

Madoka got her super-hax-God-powers in more or less the same way: Emotions piled up on her over bajillions of loops. It more or less makes sense to me that Homura, who was arguably even more central to the loops and the emotions involved than Madoka was, could acheieve a similar result. Her results were also much less solid than Madoka's.

But yeah, it was kind of weak.

 

[R_thanatos]

I can see how the end of Rebellion works thematically with the character arcs in Madoka.

Spoiler

While the series is about Madoka and her choice, by moving the movie to Homura's perspective, it makes sense that her obsession might drive her to undo Madoka's choice to achieve what she wants.

What bothered me was how the ending intersected with the other themes of the series, namely how everything has a cost, and how magic can't make your problems go away for free.

Spoiler

It makes sense that Homura would want Madoka back. But she made her wish, and she can't get more than she can win by her own hands. But suddenly at the end, love becomes the sort of magical power that can literally rewrite the laws of the universe at will just to make Homura's goals a reality. Not to trivialize what Homura went through to escape her soul gem, but is that really all it takes? Madoka's sacrifice took her entire existence, and the death of hundreds of alternate universes. Homura gets to be omnipotent just by loving Madoka really, really hard?

I don't like that shift in direction, and I don't like what it represents.

Gonna pop-up here to say that

Spoiler

Love was only homura motivation, not her means to achive that goal.IUf anything , the event within rebellion made her decide what she wanted to do since she always considered that madoka choice or sacrifice was unfair to her., especially after all she went throught in all those timelines.
Homura is different because she was there , directly , close when madoka made her wish and she kept those memories.
And she didn't just wish really hard ... she stole a part of madoka power so that she could rewrite things to her convenience. And that's where the "love" kick in..the choose to be on the same level as the one she loves , rather than being saved time and time again.

And that's on this last part that i love what happenned

 

[Turin Turambar]

I don't understand the comments of Madoka Rebellion wasn't, in quotes, "needed" or that it was a cash grab.

I mean, technically Madoka the tv series also wasn't NEEDED by the world; and it was done to have a profit because SHAFT is a business. They aren't cases as different as you may believe.


Some of the other comments are puzzling as "it goes against the original theme". The original theme is just dark and gritty magical girls, which is very clearly the same as the movie. Both have a complicated character development in the middle and drama near the end. Not only the theme, but both are are very similar in the most problematic part, the end:
The movie ends with a plot twist that is used to change the status quo greatly.
The series ended with a deus ex machina twist that is used to change the status quo greatly.


edit Terminator 2 wasn't needed after Terminator 1, but I'm glad that they did it. Even if it was done to win more money.

 

[NeonZ]

Is this the standard in anime now? I know these type of things have their place in anime, in certain genres and I regularly hear about them in some games but is this shit finding it's way into shonen anime now?

Sword Art Online isn't really shounen anime though, in spite of the action adventure premise. It was a late night show in Japan, not evening or day time.

 

[Jintor]

I don't know whether Gangsta Madoka or Hardcore Killa Homura is my favourite

 

[cajunator]

I don't understand the comments of Madoka Rebellion wasn't, in quotes, "needed" or that it was a cash grab.

I mean, technically Madoka the tv series also wasn't NEEDED by the world; and it was done to have a profit because SHAFT is a business. They aren't cases as different as you may believe.


Some of the other comments are puzzling as "it goes against the original theme". The original theme is just dark and gritty magical girls, which is very clearly the same as the movie. Both have a complicated character development in the middle and drama near the end. Not only the theme, but both are are very similar in the most problematic part, the end:
The movie ends with a plot twist that is used to change the status quo greatly.
The series ended with a deus ex machina twist that is used to change the status quo greatly.


edit Terminator 2 wasn't needed after Terminator 1, but I'm glad that they did it. Even if it was done to win more money.

That pic is AMAZING.

 

[R_thanatos]

That pic is AMAZING.

Considering she got her arsenal by stealing into police stations , this pic is highly accurate.

 

[cajunator]

Considering she got her arsenal by stealing into police stations , this pic is highly accurate.

I thought she steals from gangsters?

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Knights of Sidonia 9

Gauna waifu is great

 

[R_thanatos]

I thought she steals from gangsters?

I'm pretty sure she used her time stop power to sneak into a police station to steal. At least that how it was in the flashback ep .
I might be wrong as i don't have time to check ATM.

 

[cajunator]

I'm pretty sure she used her time stop power to sneak into a police station to steal. At least that how it was in the flashback ep .
I might be wrong as i don't have time to check ATM.

Pretty sure it was a group of thugs of some kind.

 

[NeonZ]

The Nadesico movie was also highly successful. The "problem" of the movie was that the Saturn and Dreamcast games were never translated, so the western fanbase don't have acess to a large part of the story.

Is there any source for that? It'd be very surprising if a successful movie basically killed what they seemed to be trying to turn into a multi-media franchise.

 

[Shard]

Mushishi Zoku Shou Episode 8:

Perhaps not as dry as the last episode, but more then once did I find myself checking Twitter while they were banging on about the problem of the week.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Mushishi Zoku Shou Episode 8:

Wow Ginko is evil. He casually comments what the other guys should never do, to provoke his curiosity (he never did it before until Ginko mentioned it!) and he does it without actually saying what's the problem of whistling by night, just to make it innocent.

justasplanned.gif

 

[PdotMichael]

Is there any source for that? It'd be very surprising if a successful movie basically killed what they seemed to be trying to turn into a multi-media franchise.

Source for what?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2005-08-10/stellvia-2-cancelled

No one knows why the Nadesico franchise died after the successful movie.

 

[Midonin]

Daimidaler 10

This show is pushing the limits of what the word "Penguin" can be applied to.

Spoiler

Shouma turning into a penguin? This is a thing. A small, unimpressive boxy robot turning into a more traditional robot? That's totally a thing. The return of the original protagonist after being absent for several episodes? It was going to happen eventually.

This show. It's got a very certain consistency, and it knows exactly what it's doing. Which is mostly dirty jokes, but it does them very well.

 

[fertygo]

Mushishi Zoku Shou Episode 8:

Perhaps not as dry as the last episode, but more then once did I find myself checking Twitter while they were banging on about the problem of the week.

Not talking about this specific show, but did people actually do this?
Dropping show is another thing of course, but roaming while watching TV show/movie isn't my thing.. I just pause it, even for stuff that I dislike or make me bored.. I feel obligated to watch every sec of it, but like I said.. dropping/bailing out is another thing.

 

[Clov]

I can see how the end of Rebellion works thematically with the character arcs in Madoka.

Spoiler

While the series is about Madoka and her choice, by moving the movie to Homura's perspective, it makes sense that her obsession might drive her to undo Madoka's choice to achieve what she wants.

What bothered me was how the ending intersected with the other themes of the series, namely how everything has a cost, and how magic can't make your problems go away for free.

Spoiler

It makes sense that Homura would want Madoka back. But she made her wish, and she can't get more than she can win by her own hands. But suddenly at the end, love becomes the sort of magical power that can literally rewrite the laws of the universe at will just to make Homura's goals a reality. Not to trivialize what Homura went through to escape her soul gem, but is that really all it takes? Madoka's sacrifice took her entire existence, and the death of hundreds of alternate universes. Homura gets to be omnipotent just by loving Madoka really, really hard?

I don't like that shift in direction, and I don't like what it represents.

With regards to Homura,

Spoiler

I think her new powers were a result of the abnormal experimentation and transformations she underwent. Not only was she turned into a witch, it was within her own soul gem; after which she was turned back, something that should be impossible. These factors caused a mutation, essentially.

As for her motivation, I think it's really something that I don't find discussed a lot about the movie. Many people think that Homura's character was somehow ruined in Rebellion, but I think it gives an interesting new look at her. There's two scenes in particular of interest; one is where Homura talks to Madoka on the hill. If I'm remembering right, she does mention that sometimes she doubted whether Madoka was real or not. This is something that weighs upon Homura's mind; having been without Madoka for so long (however long it's been between the TV series and the film), a bit of doubt has begun to creep in. This is echoed visually in a later scene, soon after Homura realizes that she has become a witch; one of the scenes that take place within her mind.

We see Homura and Madoka in a field sitting on chairs together, like in the opening for the compilation films. However, Madoka stands up, rigid; Homura reaches out for her, but Madoka falls to the ground and disappears in a splash of pink liquid. She crouches over the spot, horrified, as tall, thin versions of herself stand above her. Suddenly, a massive fist crushes them all; it is Homura's fist, pounding at the ground in frustration.

This scene demonstrates Homura's frustration with herself for doubting the existence of Madoka, the girl she worked so hard to save. The distorted, tall Homura figures that loom over her give the impression that they're judging her, and Homura crushing them shows how unacceptable this is to her. This is really Homura's motivation after her "devil" transformation; if she can control and contain Madoka, then she won't lose her. If she never loses Madoka, there won't be any room for doubt. It's obviously the wrong choice to make, as she could have ended up in whatever afterlife Madoka made, but I guess that lack of control really got to her.

Maybe I'm over-thinking this a lot, but I'm really just fascinated by the visual elements in Rebellion. There's a lot of interesting stuff there.

 

[nintendoman58]

Oh yes, because making it that

Spoiler

the woman deserved it

would have totally not brought it's own set of issues (and that sort of ending would have, let's not kid ourselves) that Alternetive Universe you wouldn't have brought up because of the mad quest to recognise SAO Is the worst anime of all time even when the likes of IGPX, Mahoka, Wixross and Madoka Rebellion stalk the night.

It's a proctorial cop drama sort of two parter. Castle with the numbers filed off (It even goes for some of Castle's more goofy humour what with Sandwich and everything)

And I know what you're going to say and no. You say the canned response about how that demeans even Castle and I will end every last one of the anime on this thread.

I'm dead serious, I will open one of my six mouths, and I will sing the song that ends the Batterou.

I don't even know what this means.

I was just trying to provide an example that didn't seem like some half-assed excuse for a sad story in SAO. To me episode 6 felt like they didn't try. That's all I really have to say about it.

I'll get this out of the way; overall, I really like Madoka Rebellion. It certainly has some problems, and it can't really measure up to the TV series it came from, but I still liked it. I know a lot of people don't like it for a variety of reasons, and that's fine. I don't mind if others don't like it.

But saying it's worse than SAO? One of the worst of all time? Come on. That's just plain silly.

I hate Madoka Rebellion. I despise Madoka Rebellion.

But I would still take it over SAO any day.

Maybe you should just stop being a crybaby.

edit:

I couldn't care less if you don't like something. But your voice of authority thing is highly annoying. Also anything except a "reset" ending would be against the premise of the Madoka series.

Okay people, look. I don't hate Madoka Rebellion because

Spoiler

it was a kind of "reset" ending

I hate it because the TV series actually had something that can be interpreted as an ending. Sure it left some things open, but they were little things that didn't require too much thinking about (though it sure got a lot of thinking about). I accepted how it ended and could see where it would all end up and I walked away a happy man.

When Rebellion came along, I was like

Spoiler

"Okay, are they gonna have Homura die and be with Madoka or something? That's the most likely scenario.

But no. What happens instead is

Spoiler

the complete opposite of the TV series ending where the bomb gets dropped that Madoka still has her goddess self somewhere inside her and will one day become Homura's enemy. Sayaka still remembers as well.

See, when I saw the TV series ending, I saw "The End".

When I saw Rebellion's ending, I saw "To Be Continued." And that's not what I wanted to see. I wanted to see the book finally close on this story.

Spoiler

You can't just drop the bombshell that Homura and Madoka, the two people that this series revolves around and was the main shipping pair for most people, are going to become enemies and just stop right there. Not without pissing a few people off anyway.

It's like what Kayos once said. It's like what Final Fantasy XIII-2 did to the previous game's ending.

Spoiler

Retcons it for the sake of more sequels. And don't say they can't make anymore sequels because they can. Are Homura and Madoka going to sit down and talk about their problems when they both know everything about each other? What will Sayaka do to get Madoka's memories back? What the hell is going on with the Incubators now that they've essentially been made Homura's little bitch?

All of those open plot threads are too big for me to accept that this was the last Madoka movie ever made. So unless a sequel comes out that addresses these things, I will continue to hate Madoka Rebellion.

But you people can love it all you like. I don't like what it does to the franchise, but I can understand why a lot of people do. So don't let my words on why I hate it stop you from loving this movie if you do.