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Square Enix: PlayStation offered a better deal than Xbox for Final Fantasy 16 (windowscentral.com)
- Thread starter fermcr
- Start date
Kumomeme
Member
isnt at beginning there is issue of 'lack of tools ready' for Xbox ? that might also play role. the game in development for few years already and obviously the devs cant wait no longer.
based on Sony's track record and how they is a japanese company at first place, obviously Sony got engineers ready to deploy at japan compared to Xbox, considering how much they fare there lately.
based on Sony's track record and how they is a japanese company at first place, obviously Sony got engineers ready to deploy at japan compared to Xbox, considering how much they fare there lately.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
forget the tools. is a corporate culture/language barrier issue then
.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The FF7 Remake timed-exclusivity contract has expired. If you claim otherwise, you will have to share the new contract or an official claim / box art / executive quote that has the details on the new contract.Because it never expired
Microsoft: Sony Has "Xbox Exclusion" Agreements With Third-Parties, Includes FF7 Remake
A new document via the UK's CMA has Microsoft stating that Sony has entered what it calls "Xbox Exclusion" deals with certain game companies.mp1st.com
Kumomeme
Member
right, language and culture is also another important aspect. Sony has advantages of this as they still a japanese company at first place.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Source stating that it's expired?
The link I have is the latest 'official' statement from any relevant party. If you have anything that says otherwise recently from Square that the game is not locked anymore and they're just not porting it for whatever reason, I'm all ears.
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Nocturno999
Member
Sony paid to cockblock the PC and Xbox version to keep giving the appearance that FF is part of the PS brand. That's the true reason.
It's very hypocritical after Jim Ryan "fight to protect gamers" from Activision acquisition by MS.
Funny that some people believed the reason was that Square Enix was upset with MS.
It's very hypocritical after Jim Ryan "fight to protect gamers" from Activision acquisition by MS.
Funny that some people believed the reason was that Square Enix was upset with MS.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
protect playstation gamers*
fixed.
that is what Jezz 'insider and analyst" says is the fact.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
The game was timed exclusive until 4/10/2021.
No, it's not official at all because it is neither by Sony nor by SquareEnix. Like I posted a box art by Sony and SquareEnix above. Post something official from the main parties (Sony and/or SquareEnix).
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The game was timed exclusive until 4/10/2021.
'
And then it got extended with the intergrade re-release, which was the timed exclusivity for it not coming to PC.
The game is being blocked from coming to Xbox.
We can see the same being discussed with FF16, the game has a 6 month 'exclusivity' clause with PS5 but beyond that it's only the PC version being talked about, not any other console.
Like I said, it's the latest relevant official statement from any of the 3 parties. Square have not made any comment that they're refusing to port the game for any reason at all, they're very likely contractually obligated not to.
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Rhazer Fusion
Member
To be brutally honest, even if Microsoft offered more money for FF16, I feel the game was guaranteed to sell significantly more on PlayStation simply because it is a Japanese game, a very familiar franchise and more people purchase games on PlayStation. Probably also helps that they only have one platform to develop for as opposed to 2 with the Series S and X.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
is because they are making the Xbox version the definitive version to play. patience.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No it did not get "extended."
The Intergrade PS5 version is a separate SKU, which itself got a 6-month timed exclusivity, which also ran only until December 2021.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
And that exclusivity clause was for the PC version, which came out 6 months. The game was, easy to guess still is, being blocked from other consoles.
Even in the picture above, it says any other format, unlike Forspoken where it specifically says console exclusivity is for 2 years (and the game launched on PC day and date).
It's being blocked Heis, we all know it. No reason to defend this alamo.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
No, that's your assumption.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
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TLZ
Banned
I like exclusives. It makes the platform more valuable. It does/offers something the other doesn't. It's partly why I like buying all consoles.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
You are assuming, man.There is *extremely little* left to assumption.
.
First, it was that "PS extended the exclusivity agreement and that's why it's not on Xbox" and now "The exclusivity period was never referring to Xbox; it was always for PC."
The only facts that we know are:
- FFVII Remake's PS4 exclusivity period is over. SquareEnix is free to release the game wherever they want to.
- FFVII Remake Intergrade's PS5 exclusivity period is over. SquareEnix is free to release the game wherever they want to.
Unknown Soldier
Member
It's much more likely that SE simply studied how many copies they expected to sell on each platform and decided whether it was worth the cost to port and release on that platform. PC got the green light, Xbox didn't. It's that simple.There is *extremely little* left to assumption.
.
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Rykan
Member
It's an assumption, but he's probably correct.
Otherwise, there really is no logic behind releasing the Final Fantasy 7 Crisis Core remake/remaster on Xbox, but not releasing the actual remake of Final Fantasy 7, unless there's a contract that prohibits SE from doing so.
Because those are much less popular games. An Octopath Traveller 2 or a collection of older games isn't going to be doing the same numbers as a big title like FF7 Remake would.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Just think about it, they would selectively not bring one of their most popular games to Xbox but will bring Triangle Strategy ...
And the FF16 example I gave above where the creators of the game are frankly talking about a PC version after the six month period but not any other console(s).
If Sony can selectively ask Nvidia to block their first party published games from Geforce Now specifically on the Edge browser on Xbox, the above is not a difficult conclusion to come to at all.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Or it is… and Square-Enid does not think it is a great return on investment despite the easy scaling myth while donating 30% of the proceeds to MS. Maybe MS insists on some GamePass clause… no, all suppositions are in MS favour and against others
Just think about it, they would selectively not bring one of their most popular games to Xbox but will bring Triangle Strategy ...
And the FF16 example I gave above where the creators of the game are frankly talking about a PC version after the six month period but not any other console(s).
If Sony can selectively ask Nvidia to block their first party published games from Geforce Now specifically on the Edge browser on Xbox, the above is not a difficult conclusion to come to at all.
? Come on…Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Which would also cost a lot more to port than those games and maybe it si not something S-E think it is worth the trouble in terms of opportunity cost (cost of not doing other things) and want money from MS to do so… and maybe there are other reasons also adding up (like the issues getting their MMO’s on Xbox and cross gameplay there).
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Or it is… and Square-Enid does not think it is a great return on investment despite the easy scaling myth while donating 30% of the proceeds to MS. Maybe MS insists on some GamePass clause… no, all suppositions are in MS favour and against others
MS didn't insist on any GP clause for any of the Square games that came to Xbox in '22.
Also, I repeat, they didn't put out their most popular game .. for reasons .. but chose to put out Triangle Strategy and that last god awful Star Ocean game on Xbox.
BlueLyria
Member
It's no Final Fantasy, but it's a good game and I'll die for it
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
But by that logic, Crisis Core wasn't gonna do the same numbers as the FF7 Remake would either. So why did that get a multiplatform release?
BootsLoader
Banned
Did they mentioned that they have intentions of porting the game on xbox? Take a look at FFVII. It was timed exclusive and remained as console exclusive with a release on PC.
ZehDon
Member
Well, if you're developing your game for Windows PCs in 2023, then you've done the lion's share of the work for your Xbox Series port as well. The cost for development of the Xbox version after the PC version is pretty minimal.
In this scenario, I suspect Square Enix probably just doesn't want to port it. Metal Gear Solid 4 wasn't a PS3 exclusive, for example, Kojima just didn't want to port it to Xbox. Konami would've done it had Kojima asked to, but he didn't, so they just didn't. On top of that, Square Enix is also probably maintaining their relationship with Sony, because it's been very profitable for them for quite some time. In the same way that Bethesda and Xbox have a long history, so too does PlayStation and Square - longer, in fact. I'm not sure there's more of a reason for FFVII not being on Xbox other than no one at Square cares enough to actually make it happen.
ToadMan
Member
Your hate is misdirected - it takes two to tango.
SE had the option to go multiplat but chose instead to get Sony’s assistance.
Third party exclusives are an agreement between the publisher and the first party. It happens in all content production sectors not just videogames.
SE want a successful product and chose assistance from Sony - technical, marketing and whatever - to achieve success. That assistance comes with clauses. Quite generous ones given this is just timed exclusivity.
As MS showed they couldn’t even assist with redfall - a first party release. How are they going to help SE develop and market a successful product?
Evidently SE felt that getting Sony’s help was worth the loss of sales on MS platforms (for a short period) also offset by single platform development.
That is a decision SE made - not Sony.
Ar¢tos
Member
.
Square releases on Xbox if they pay upfront (octopath traveler) otherwise it's not worth the risk of porting, debugging, testing and optimising an entire game for 2 SKUs that represent a tiny portion of the sales. It's wasting time and resources to break even or even lose money.
If they want Square games, then they have to sell more consoles and teach Xbox gamers to enjoy other games besides shooters/cars.
It's as simple as that and you know it.
But people have difficulty accepting reality so they prefer to act salty.
Cut some high pay wages, (Phil certainly doesn't deserve his) and subsidise xbox even more, sell xsx for 150 and XSS for 50, they will lose a ton of money (they seem to have a few billion to spare) but will build an install base for the future gen, it's their only hope.
Stop acting dumb.
Just think about it, they would selectively not bring one of their most popular games to Xbox but will bring Triangle Strategy ...
And the FF16 example I gave above where the creators of the game are frankly talking about a PC version after the six month period but not any other console(s).
If Sony can selectively ask Nvidia to block their first party published games from Geforce Now specifically on the Edge browser on Xbox, the above is not a difficult conclusion to come to at all.
Square releases on Xbox if they pay upfront (octopath traveler) otherwise it's not worth the risk of porting, debugging, testing and optimising an entire game for 2 SKUs that represent a tiny portion of the sales. It's wasting time and resources to break even or even lose money.
If they want Square games, then they have to sell more consoles and teach Xbox gamers to enjoy other games besides shooters/cars.
It's as simple as that and you know it.
But people have difficulty accepting reality so they prefer to act salty.
Cut some high pay wages, (Phil certainly doesn't deserve his) and subsidise xbox even more, sell xsx for 150 and XSS for 50, they will lose a ton of money (they seem to have a few billion to spare) but will build an install base for the future gen, it's their only hope.
Boss Mog
Member
It's hard to take SE seriously after they sold Tomb Raider and Deux Ex IPs and the talented studios behind them for chump change to Embracer when I'm sure Sony or even MS would've offered them more. Imagine if Eidos Montreal and Crystal Dynamics became first party Sony devs, with access to 1st party tools they would've churned out some insane PS5 games I'd wager.
Rykan
Member
Possibly, But I think that is unlikely. FF7 Remake has a PC version, so porting it to Xbox should be relatively easy and inexpensive. Both games run on UE 4 too. It's obviously not going to do Playstation numbers, but I seriously doubt that porting it wouldn't be profitable. I don't think there's anything comparable to the MMO situation going on: Allegedly, the issue is actually ingame guilds (known as Free companies in FFXIV) that is the issue here. Supposedly, Microsoft does not allow players to join separate communities outside of Xbox live in games that offer cross play. SE does not want to have Xbox specific servers.
Crisis Core was probably expected to outsell both Remaster collection and OP2.
SE released OP1 on Xbox and game pass, so they most likely have detailed information on player engagement with the original title and, based on that performance, decided that the sequel wasn't worth porting over.
FF pixel remaster collection is kind of an interesting case. The collection was originally supposed to be just released on PC and Mobile. SE gave in to fan demand and later ported the games to the systems that most likely have the most traditional FF fans: Switch and Playstation. Considering how fast the collection sold out, I think the success may have caught Square Enix off guard and I wouldn't actually be surprised if this collection would come to Xbox eventually in one way or another.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They are a publicly listed company and could not accept a lower offer. As surprising as the price was/is for most of us, that really was the best offer they got.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Me and some others said this was going to happen years ago.
MasterCornholio
Member
I'm sure Sony isn't telling Square to exclude Xbox from all their games. What's true is that not every title from SE has a deal associated with Sony. Like those two you mentioned for example.
Well Microsoft always have the option to fund the development of the Xbox version. That way it would cover the development costs and wouldn't be a burden on SE. That's one way they could get it.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Should be, but it might not be and it is still a cost.
It is not just profits it is opportunity cost, how much money would you generate if the people and effort you spent on it had been spent on something else?
Kumomeme
Member
another important point to consider is from CBU3 perspective. particularly from Naoki Yoshida's point of view.
one of main important core audience for FF16, is the FF14 playerbase. from where is Naoki Yoshida standing, FF14 audience is crucial fanbase that they cant neglected. there is millions of them not count separate server for China and Korean.
so far, FF14 is available on Window, Mac, PS4 and PS5.
put aside PS4 and PC, currently PS5 is the only 'next gen' platform that FF14 is available and from there they can already gauge some of future potential players on next gen console.
it is already a common occurence where consoles launch is a priority over PC platform so we can put PC aside for awhile.
i believe the situation might be bit different, if FF14 also available on Xbox. Naoki Yoshida has good relationship with the community and he and the rest of the devs team including management likely want to keep that way.
so imagine if FF14 is already on Xbox but at same time, FF16 is not available on the console. FF14 playerbase on Xbox surely wont take this kindly and Naoki Yoshida definitely doesnt want to angry the community. even if he still stay firm to give priority over PS5 launch and end up give a heartfull apology while crying on livestream(which is something that could possibly happened), atleast the chances that FF16 still gonna coming to Xbox later is high, considering the backlash.
Naoki Yoshida already expressed interest to bring FF14 to Xbox since atleast 2014, around a year after FFXIV relaunch of A Realm Reborn. since then, almost every year there is article where in interview where Yoshida spoke how he is interested to bring the game to Xbox over and over again. however due to Xbox policy issue, like doesnt allow cross chat with different platform, Xbox Gold payment where Yoshida didnt want player to pay twice and MS want separate server just for Xbox(amidst of crossplay issue played by microsoft itself) make it not possible.
it took until 2019 where we finally get a 'confirmation' from phil spencer to bring the game to Xbox and he working to clear all those hurdles which is from my point of view, the timing is kind of too late considering the devs that time already handsfull with developing and launch a new expansion Endwalker which is one of most important launch to the team. Yoshida did mention this that they required more additional resource for Xbox launch but that time due to Endwalker development, they cant afford that. theoritically they should has 'room' for that afterward BUT, turn out after Endwalker launch the game suffered from severe congestion issue where they even end up stop sell the game for quite some time. definitely there is no room for new Xbox playerbase to come if they cant resolve that. then company finally end up invest more on upgrading their server and their 1-2 year of roadmap is full with that atleast until last year.
so if phil spencer didnt failed to bring FF14 much earlier, in period of 2014-2018, perhaps things could be potentially different. the company view over the platform also could be bit different. atleast even if FF16 still has timed exclusive launch on PS5, that game could eventually launch on Xbox later and wont be a case like FFVIIR where it still not available on the console today despite time exclusivity period already run out for quite long time ago.
one of main important core audience for FF16, is the FF14 playerbase. from where is Naoki Yoshida standing, FF14 audience is crucial fanbase that they cant neglected. there is millions of them not count separate server for China and Korean.
so far, FF14 is available on Window, Mac, PS4 and PS5.
put aside PS4 and PC, currently PS5 is the only 'next gen' platform that FF14 is available and from there they can already gauge some of future potential players on next gen console.
it is already a common occurence where consoles launch is a priority over PC platform so we can put PC aside for awhile.
i believe the situation might be bit different, if FF14 also available on Xbox. Naoki Yoshida has good relationship with the community and he and the rest of the devs team including management likely want to keep that way.
so imagine if FF14 is already on Xbox but at same time, FF16 is not available on the console. FF14 playerbase on Xbox surely wont take this kindly and Naoki Yoshida definitely doesnt want to angry the community. even if he still stay firm to give priority over PS5 launch and end up give a heartfull apology while crying on livestream(which is something that could possibly happened), atleast the chances that FF16 still gonna coming to Xbox later is high, considering the backlash.
Naoki Yoshida already expressed interest to bring FF14 to Xbox since atleast 2014, around a year after FFXIV relaunch of A Realm Reborn. since then, almost every year there is article where in interview where Yoshida spoke how he is interested to bring the game to Xbox over and over again. however due to Xbox policy issue, like doesnt allow cross chat with different platform, Xbox Gold payment where Yoshida didnt want player to pay twice and MS want separate server just for Xbox(amidst of crossplay issue played by microsoft itself) make it not possible.
it took until 2019 where we finally get a 'confirmation' from phil spencer to bring the game to Xbox and he working to clear all those hurdles which is from my point of view, the timing is kind of too late considering the devs that time already handsfull with developing and launch a new expansion Endwalker which is one of most important launch to the team. Yoshida did mention this that they required more additional resource for Xbox launch but that time due to Endwalker development, they cant afford that. theoritically they should has 'room' for that afterward BUT, turn out after Endwalker launch the game suffered from severe congestion issue where they even end up stop sell the game for quite some time. definitely there is no room for new Xbox playerbase to come if they cant resolve that. then company finally end up invest more on upgrading their server and their 1-2 year of roadmap is full with that atleast until last year.
so if phil spencer didnt failed to bring FF14 much earlier, in period of 2014-2018, perhaps things could be potentially different. the company view over the platform also could be bit different. atleast even if FF16 still has timed exclusive launch on PS5, that game could eventually launch on Xbox later and wont be a case like FFVIIR where it still not available on the console today despite time exclusivity period already run out for quite long time ago.
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PeteBull
Member
That 50mln for ff16 exclusivity is peanuts, u got recent legit official info GoW Ragnarok Costed 200mln to make, and that game used many assets from GoW 2018.
Now lets see how much ff7 back in late 90s costed to make https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII Final Fantasy VII was at the time one of the most expensive video game projects ever, costing an estimated US$40 million, which adjusted for inflation came to $61 million in 2017
Now lets adjust it to 2023 inflation price- and we got already 76-77mln of bucks, so from square-enix pov u at least dont wanna lose out on xbox exclusivity so solid 100m usd moneyhat, even for 1year timed would be absolute minimum, maybe even 200m just to make sure its an offer square cant refuse- unfortunately for xbox users, microsoft got other places to spend cash on, like redfall =/
Boss Mog
Member
Was there open bidding though? It's not like SE went bankrupt.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
MasterCornholio
Member
Maybe because the development costs for Crisis Core was a lot less than FF7. At least that's what my theory is.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
I feel Series S is going to turn out to be a terrible bet from MS in like 3 years. Actually once we leave this cross-gen period tbh.
HTK
Banned
Technically Sony's offer could be less than Xbox mainly because of their marketshare more sales, marketing deals etc...
Where Xbox would probably not sell the game as much and need to dish out more money for the offer up-front to cover all the costs that their platform is lacking, marketshare, gamers buying, marketing etc....