• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Square Enix: PlayStation offered a better deal than Xbox for Final Fantasy 16 (windowscentral.com)

Lol what kind of shite is this? There's no reality where square would be willing to accept any offer from Microsoft for final fantasy exclusivity. It would be business suicide. Windowscentral is full of shit.
 
Last edited:

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
From the article:

"Square Enix also noted that the deal also offers them high-level platform support with PlayStation engineers, to the implication that Xbox does not. Square Enix also emphasized the benefits of focusing optimization on a single platform."

and

"Square Enix would have to invest in a heavily optimized version for the Xbox Series S too, which requires its own version as part of Microsoft's licensing agreement. PlayStation has no such weaker hardware SKU to account for."

Lack of support (perhaps a byproduct of contractors and failing to hire best people????) and the pain of dealing with Series S. Shocking. Who would have thought?

There is alot to digest from that Windows Central article...but the Series S info comes from Jez, not the Tweak Town article. That said...if that Series S info is accurate.....oh my.

It requiring its own version....when pre launch so many were claiming "games can scale easily", "look at PC"....despite what some of us were saying would be wild. Might as well call the Series S the base console and the Series X the mid gen refresh...only it came at launch. Did we miss this nugget of info? Was this already known?

Jez does have a point....as minimum PC requirements go up for PC games....Series S versions will start getting more interesting.

The offer isn’t just “money”, it’s tech support, it’s install base, it’s marketing reach.

Meanwhile Xbox couldn’t even give Arkane tech support and resources.
Yup.

..or how about put them on both systems and make 30%-40% more profit from the sales.
If they said its easier to develop for one platform...remember some ppl used this as a good reason Redfall wasnt coming to PS5 when that Arkane dev let the news slip it was in development at one point....maybe the money Sony paid offsets it enough that it's not even worth it?

Does this surprise anyone? It was pretty clear that Sony paid for it.
Yeah, but as the article states, Sony offered the best deal...as in there were other offers.
No, it shouldn't surprise anyone. Square are probably getting an incredibly good lucrative deal and development incentives here.

At least you mention development incentives. So kudos for that. Because it also states that in the article.

So, then Sony didn't moneyhat or take anything away, MS just didn't want it.

Can't have both arguments exist at the same time.

These are also both from the article, which shows they were offered something.
I will forever be amazed that a company that spent 7.5 billion for a publisher and in the process of trying to acquire another one for 69 billion....cant afford to outbid Sony for money hats or timed exclusives. MS can open up the check books for acquisitions...but not money hats?

On a similar note, I'm patiently waiting for Sommerville and Scorn to come to PS5. No mentions of it at all, but months later magically a PS5 version will get announced...like The Medium and The Ascent.

MS does get timed exclusive deals...but since they're smaller, obviously they don't count. For reasons.

The FF14 blurb is false.

Square essentially begged Microsoft since the 360 era to have the game on Xbox. When they had a better realtionship with the brand and this is well documented.

Microsoft wouldn't allow the game to release on Xbox due to cross-play I recall and then it got to a point the company said screw it then.

I believe this is a big reason why the relationship soured, as well as the fact the majority of the audience is on PS, Nintendo and PC for JRPGs.
Remember when it was said Sony doesn't do cross play at all....all because MS finally decided to do it and went above n beyond what Sony did?

Fun times.
 

Dick Jones

Gold Member
Why? No, seriously. Does any time Xbox get a timed exclusive third party game get counted as a Jim Ryan failure? or any time a third party game launches on GP day 1, do we say Jim Ryan fucked up
?

Square continuing their business arrangements with Sony for the last 2, 3 generations isn't Phil Spencer's doing lol.




So you think Jez has definitive knowledge that it's expired?

Microsoft scored some support from Square Enix a few years back, with Dragon Quest 12 and Kingdom Hearts

this guy? I hope you retain faith in his journalism for future articles as well.








kmt-yeah.gif
I think a shill journalist for Xbox wouldn't make extremely damaging statements about the competence (or incompetence) of Xbox hierarchy. He would easily get the answer off his sources and edit out incorrect damaging comments. 😉

It's expired, and SE couldn't be arsed yet. Maybe they might release a port around the same time as FFVII Part 2 releases and piggyback sales off it.

Regarding the SEGAvangelist SEGAvangelist comment about wanting Gamepass money, that's fucking sad if major third parties see selling on Xbox as a risk and want compensation. #waitforGamepass
 
I'm sure he's mostly whining about the "exclusively not on Xbox" deals and marketing deals barring games from Game Pass. I would get upset if my competitor was doing that while at the same time complaining about "monopolistic" practices such as acquiring a publisher.
If Phil doesn’t understand the difference between game-by game deals (that they can do too) and taking ownership and control of some of gaming’s biggest PC, Mobile and Console IP in totality then he’s an idiot.

Why is Stalker not on PS5? Why do GamePass deal games not come to PS+ for a long time? Bog standard stuff.

Publisher buyouts are not big standard.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Lol what kind of shite is this? There's no reality where square would be willing to accept any offer from Microsoft for final fantasy exclusivity. It would be business suicide. Windowscentral is full of shit.
If MS offered them $1B along with dev support, not only would it be at least a 12-18 month exclusive, but it would also have been on gamepass day 1.

But MS rather spends $67B on COD. And apparently wasn't even trying to make it exclusive (at least for the first 10 years).
 

nial

Member
Is there a japanese cellphone company that can compete head to head with Apple in Japan?

Is there any japanese cellphone company, actually?
Apple simply offered an alternative and superior product that appealed to the tastes of the Japanese and met with great success.
Well making games as software is quite different than what Apple does. I really don't see how you compare the two. The video games industry is a creative industry and the cultural gap between western and eastern markets really makes itself present.
Many Western cultural media have proven popular in Japan (Matrix DVD was the top selling software bought alongside the PS2 in the console's launch window!), so what I really don't see is how you say this. The fact that they're American doesn't justify the incompetence of Xbox to gain ground in Japan.
 
Last edited:

acm2000

Member
the whole reason i went 360 over ps3 is the more western centric nature of the console and its games, i grew out of japanese stuff long ago.

as much as MS would like the break in to the japanese market, they never had a chance
 

Aenima

Member
Square continuing their business arrangements with Sony for the last 2, 3 generations isn't Phil Spencer's doing lol.
Not doing anything, is not helping Xbox either. In the sad CEO interview Phil "good games dont matter" Spencer said they need to improve they relationship with Square. So he admits things between Xbox and Square are not as good as they could be if he had to put an effort in it.
 

cireza

Member
I think that for MS to gain the favor of Square-Enix is simply super complicated, mainly because of the historical relationship between Sony and Square-Enix. Sony are obviously good payers, Square are used to work with them, they have the larger install base, they can work between Japanese branches (probably easier than with MS I guess) etc...

There are so many things working in their favor, it simply makes the cost to "counter" this prohibitive and it is understandable that Microsoft do no not want to take this route.
 
Calculating the amount of money Square Enix would have to demand in order to accept Xbox exclusivity would essentially be the cost of buying the entire company. Judging from the brand damage Xbox exclusivity did to Tomb Raider, if SE accepted it for Final Fantasy it would be the equivalent of killing the whole company because FF is by far the most important franchise for SE and therefore we can estimate it's value as that of the company. MS isn't going to spend the same as an acquisition without actually acquiring so of course whatever number SE demanded would be unacceptable.

Sony probably just showed up and was like well we estimate that FFXVI will sell this many copies on Xbox, which is a number so close to zero it's basically zero, here's a few million to help with dev costs and we'll send over some engineers to help you code and optimize, also yeah Playstation exists in Japan. And SE was like sure fine same as the last decade, let's do it.
 

Vognerful

Member
It's kind of a bad precedent to set, though. Suddenly all these publishers would start expecting checks from MS just for their games to be released on the console at all.
Square is also to blame here.

They intentionally went out and tried to see who would pay more to make it exclusive to their system.

And weird that people don't find this alarming behavior
 

Luigi Mario

Member
The FF14 blurb is false.

Square essentially begged Microsoft since the 360 era to have the game on Xbox. When they had a better realtionship with the brand and this is well documented.

Microsoft wouldn't allow the game to release on Xbox due to cross-play I recall and then it got to a point the company said screw it then.
You have to remember, at the start of the 7th gen they even got an exclusive version of FFXI. The game never came to the other two consoles.
So, them fumbling the bag with FFXIV is especially baffling.
 
Last edited:

Vognerful

Member
i think they mention that previously, due to the exorbitant cost of AAA games, they HAVE to seek partnerships.
No they don't.

SE is not a struggling company that is having 1 or 2 years of bad financial results; they have been riding so high on the sale of their games, deals for PlayStation plus, and luxurious revenue stream from FFXIV from PC and PS consoles. they are not struggling for money.

That is why everyone also scratches their head when Se keeps trying to push for NFTs to be accepted.
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
errr....likely.

If you are MS, its hard to offer a fuck ton of money on an IP that will just sell more on PS anyway, so pay to market a game everyone fucking KNOWS is coming to PS a year later? Because the core majority FF base is on PS, its hard to really make a deal like that if you are MS, so I'm not surprised they had a lower offer.

If this is true, I would not even be shocked if they did the same thing by going to MS about them making an offer for Octopath 2, like....either pay for the port cuz we ain't lol
 

Unknown?

Member
I don't think the bidding war is on equal footing. As I mentioned earlier, Game Pass is the issue in these kinds of deals. First off, they have to pay for the sales lost on PS5 and that's more than Sony would have to pay for sales lost on Xbox. Second, they would have to pay more on top of that so it would launch on Game Pass day one. I bet the fee for all of that would be insanely high. Could they pay it? Sure. Would it be worth it. Obviously, they don't think it would be. I suppose the thing they could have afforded was to pay SE to release on Xbox period, but that's a can of worms I guess they don't want to open.
Shows how incompetent they are. They're willing to pay 70 billion for one of the shittiest publishers out there that doesn't produce games as good as this.
 

Vognerful

Member
errr....likely.

If you are MS, its hard to offer a fuck ton of money on an IP that will just sell more on PS anyway, so pay to market a game everyone fucking KNOWS is coming to PS a year later? Because the core majority FF base is on PS, its hard to really make a deal like that if you are MS, so I'm not surprised they had a lower offer.

If this is true, I would not even be shocked if they did the same thing by going to MS about them making an offer for Octopath 2, like....either pay for the port cuz we ain't lol
It would also set precedent for all other companies to just ask Microsoft for money to port the games to pc/xbox, or they wouldn't bother.
 

Iced Arcade

Member
It was money hatted simple as that.

no need to spin or justify or argue with each other, all these corporations do this. All of them. Money talks.

FF doesn't sell well to the Xbox demographic so Xbox didn't put up the same dollars as Sony did and Sony won it.
 
Last edited:
No they don't.

SE is not a struggling company that is having 1 or 2 years of bad financial results; they have been riding so high on the sale of their games, deals for PlayStation plus, and luxurious revenue stream from FFXIV from PC and PS consoles. they are not struggling for money.

That is why everyone also scratches their head when Se keeps trying to push for NFTs to be accepted.
SE is fucked up
 

EDMIX

Writes a lot, says very little
It would also set precedent for all other companies to just ask Microsoft for money to port the games to pc/xbox, or they wouldn't bother.

Truth.

It makes sense. If a IP simply can't move units on their system, then beggars can't be choosers and it would make sense to have them either pay for the port, or the publisher will not bring titles over to the system. If its not very profitable for them, I don't see the point. They were literally having KH and FF titles move like 10% or 18% on XB, its likely far worse on those smaller titles, so I see why they might just ask for MS to pay for the port cost.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Not doing anything, is not helping Xbox either. In the sad CEO interview Phil "good games dont matter" Spencer said they need to improve they relationship with Square. So he admits things between Xbox and Square are not as good as they could be if he had to put an effort in it.

Where did he say he didn't put an effort in it ? More Japanese franchises have come to Xbox than ever before in the last couple of years. The effort is there, Phil is just the convenient scapegoat.

I think a shill journalist for Xbox wouldn't make extremely damaging statements about the competence (or incompetence) of Xbox hierarchy. He would easily get the answer off his sources and edit out incorrect damaging comments. 😉

I'm surprised how accepting you are of Jez's statement in this article. His sources couldn't even tell him which DQ game is on Xbox.

It's expired, and SE couldn't be arsed yet. Maybe they might release a port around the same time as FFVII Part 2 releases and piggyback sales off it.

Objection, hearsay. We literally don't know the current status of Sony's exclusivity for those games.




hip hop rap GIF by WE tv
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Where did he say he didn't put an effort in it ? More Japanese franchises have come to Xbox than ever before in the last couple of years. The effort is there, Phil is just the convenient scapegoat.



I'm surprised how accepting you are of Jez's statement in this article. His sources couldn't even tell him which DQ game is on Xbox.



Objection, hearsay. We literally don't know the current status of Sony's exclusivity for those games.





hip hop rap GIF by WE tv
never ending morla the ancient one GIF
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
Square is also to blame here.

They intentionally went out and tried to see who would pay more to make it exclusive to their system.

And weird that people don't find this alarming behavior

Lol outta here with bullshit. No platform is entitled to games from company x or y.

Just like with movies and tv shows, those who create seek the best deals they can get. Do you find it alarming that manufacturers take a 30% cut?

Some of you have no clue holy shit.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
It’s all about who waves the most money in front of Square’s face.

Square putting Kingdom Hearts on EGS proves they don’t give a rat’s ass about sales.
 
MS could spend 100M on the exclusivity, Square knows that FF XVI wouldnt sell shit on a MS console in Japan, no matter how much money they throw at it
It wouldn't sell shit anywhere else comparatively, either. The JRPG fanbase is on PlayStation and Nintendo.

SE doesn't care that Sony is based in Japan. The vast majority of their sales come from outside of Japan. All they care is which console has their target audience. JRPG players have PlayStation and Nintendo because that's where JRPGs have always been found.

Your original comment made it sound like money is a secondary concern for SE and they care about nationality or race over anything else.
 
I should mention that SE has exclusive titles for Switch as well. The most notable of these recently is Triangle Strategy, 6 month exclusive on Switch and then released on PC. There is no PS version of this game.
 

Crayon

Member
What was ms' deal supposed to be? To pay to release it on Xbox? Because there is no way the could make it exclusive to Xbox without paying to put a huge dent in the brand. Xbox is non-existent in Japan. There are 4-7 level electronics stores here with whole floors dedicated to pc gaming while you will be hard pressed to find a single used Xbox on consignment. Even the PS5 which is supposedly moving slow occupies vast amounts of retail space, though less than switch. Every platform is well represented except Xbox, which is practically nowhere to be found.
 
Last edited:

supernova8

Banned
From the article:

"Square Enix also noted that the deal also offers them high-level platform support with PlayStation engineers, to the implication that Xbox does not. Square Enix also emphasized the benefits of focusing optimization on a single platform."

and

"Square Enix would have to invest in a heavily optimized version for the Xbox Series S too, which requires its own version as part of Microsoft's licensing agreement. PlayStation has no such weaker hardware SKU to account for."

Lack of support (perhaps a byproduct of contractors and failing to hire best people????) and the pain of dealing with Series S. Shocking. Who would have thought?
Lol people have been saying this since the Series S was announced and yet the same old crew were denying it over and over. It's painfully obvious to anyone without skin in the game. Don't get me wrong I love my Series S but it doesn't take a genius to speculate that its existence creates more work for developers.
 

supernova8

Banned
Square Enix also noted that the deal also offers them high-level platform support with PlayStation engineers, to the implication that Xbox does not.

This isn't just about money. Sony is providing the technical support that SquareEnix is missing to make a truly epic single-player game that would sell more than 10 million copies.

Xbox does not have that capability as of now as their own first-party AAA games do not sell more than 10 million copies. So how could they help SquareEnix sell their game at such scale?

I could imagine Square Enix would say "based on our forecasts we would sell XX million units on PS5 but only XX million units on Xbox Series S and X. It would also take more effort to make two versions (one for S and X) and then there's the opportunity cost of losing out on those PS5 sales.... so if you pay us [insert gigantic amount] we'll do it"

Presumably that gigantic amount wasn't something Xbox was willing to stomach.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
How do you figure? They sell it on Xbox, Microsoft gets 30%. What cut do they get on Steam?

Indeed, its's also not really helping to upsell Windows because basically if you buy any sort of PC its likely to end up with (or have preinstalled) Windows anyway.

The idea that MS benefit from PC games that they aren't publishing themselves either stand-alone or on a service platform like Gamepass is nonsense.
 
Top Bottom