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[MrBig]

And then there are the stretch goals like pets, Alien languages, and ship modularity. While I have faith in CIG, that's a lot of work for a 2016 release date and I wouldn't blame CIG if they wanted to save some of those for some future patches/DLC (free for backers, paid for people who bought the game after release?).

PU updates will not be paid, but further campaign missions in the vein of SQ42 will be paid expansion packs. That kind of multiplayer dichotomy would ruin the community.

I expect the game as outlined in the original kickstarter pitch, plus a bunch of refinements, to be playable by the end of 2016 but I don't really expect much of the stretch goals to be fully implemented by then. That degree of content takes years to create, no matter how many people they could throw at it.

 

[mkenyon]

While it's not quite there, SC's dev cost is close to GTA5. CIG is building the game around an estimated $100M by the time the game launches and nearly all of that is going into development. The marketing budget is practically nonexsistent.

The Youtube channel is basically this. Correspondence and edited content for their funders (the people buying the game).

 

[Zalusithix]

And they are not really money constraint.
Since they passed $60m goal, they are earning $3.5m per month!

A lot of money is not infinite money. It's still a constraint. Not a very debilitating one, but a constraint nonetheless.

Realistically, what goals have CIG set for themselves that have the possibility of not being achieved?

They've already shown demos of the FPS, Social, and Multi-crew demos, so we know they will be completed in some playable form. After that it's the Persistent Universe and Squadron 42, which we admittedly know little about, but considering those 2 are literally the games we paid for I'd say there is a pretty good chance that we will see some version of them soon.

Achieved in bare basic form and achieved in a way that oozes quality are two different things. There's a lot of spit and polish work to be done on what they have released to the public, let alone the work needed on the stuff that hasn't been cleared for public testing. Then there's the integration of all of these separate parts into a seamless cohesive experience. Lots of ideas can get proof of concept demos. When push comes to shove, however, not everything pans out exactly as planned when it needs to be integrated into the larger whole. Guessing where the pinch points are going to be on a massive game like SC is a fools errand though. You'd need inside knowledge to make any truly informed guesses.

 

[Danthrax]

Realistically, what goals have CIG set for themselves that have the possibility of not being achieved?

They've already shown demos of the FPS, Social, and Multi-crew demos, so we know they will be completed in some playable form. After that it's the Persistent Universe and Squadron 42, which we admittedly know little about, but considering those 2 are literally the games we paid for I'd say there is a pretty good chance that we will see some version of them soon.

So that means all of the major modules should be in the game in some form. What's left is the fluff, the stuff that would make the game a lot of fun and very immersive, but doesn't necessarily need to be in the final game at launch and could be saved for a future patch or (hopefully) free DLC.

A few examples, the multi-crew systems sounds great, but probably won't be in when multi-crew ships are launched. Making looking at a scanner, or managing shields fun and challenging requires a bit of work and ingenuity that may cause a delay.

Same with mining and salvaging, they keep saying that those 2 career paths will be fun and challenging, but it sounds like a lot of work.

And then there are the stretch goals like pets, Alien languages, and ship modularity. While I have faith in CIG, that's a lot of work for a 2016 release date and I wouldn't blame CIG if they wanted to save some of those for some future patches/DLC (free for backers, paid for people who bought the game after release?).

Of course we'll get the persistent universe at some point, but the question is how big it'll be. It's supposed to be more than 100 systems, many of those with multiple planets, but how long will it take to get all of that into the game? It would be stunning if all of it were in there by the end of 2016.

It looks like they want to get the alpha out by the end of this year with just five systems (they've built parts of three of those systems at this point). Can they get another 95 systems done in a year? Probably not even with the help of every asset creation farm in China.

 

[staticneuron]

Of course we'll get the persistent universe at some point, but the question is how big it'll be. It's supposed to be more than 100 systems, many of those with multiple planets, but how long will it take to get all of that into the game? It would be stunning if all of it were in there by the end of 2016.

It looks like they want to get the alpha out by the end of this year with just five systems (they've built parts of three of those systems at this point). Can they get another 95 systems done in a year? Probably not even with the help of every asset creation farm in China.

Isn't that the point of one of there goals being the study of a procedurally generated system?

Laying the groundwork so the systems and the jobs themselves would be procedurally generated then checking over the result to make sure it is cohesive and logical.


41 million stretch goal - 10/03/2014

Procedural Generation R&D Team – This stretch goal will allocate funding for Cloud Imperium to develop procedural generation technology for future iterations of Star Citizen. Advanced procedural generation will be necessary for creating entire planets worth of exploration and development content. A special strike team of procedural generation-oriented developers will be assembled to make this technology a reality.

 

[Danthrax]

Isn't that the point of one of there goals being the study of a procedurally generated system?

Laying the groundwork so the systems and the jobs themselves would be procedurally generated then checking over the result to make sure it is cohesive and logical.


41 million stretch goal - 10/03/2014

That goal is only about procedurally generating the entire landscapes of entire planets so players can explore outside of landing zones. It's not about helping CIG to build the landing zones of all the planets with landing zones. That stuff has to be done by hand (although they've created tools to help them repeat art assets and make structures faster).

 

[KKRT00]

That goal is only about procedurally generating the entire landscapes of entire planets so players can explore outside of landing zones. It's not about helping CIG to build the landing zones of all the planets with landing zones. That stuff has to be done by hand (although they've created tools to help them repeat art assets and make structures faster).

Nah. Its about procedural creation in general. They are starting with procedural asteroid creation, then they will go for procedural blocks of zones, then into bigger areas and then maybe planets if they achieve acceptable fidelity.

CIG also heavily researched modular creation on zones, especially cities blocks etc.

 

[staticneuron]

That goal is only about procedurally generating the entire landscapes of entire planets so players can explore outside of landing zones. It's not about helping CIG to build the landing zones of all the planets with landing zones. That stuff has to be done by hand (although they've created tools to help them repeat art assets and make structures faster).

Oh, i must have misunderstood because you mentioned getting another 95 systems done in a year. I thought you meant explorable planets not just landing zones/cities. It is doubtful that all the systems will have landing zones. It wouldn't make sense that all the systems would have that. I also imagine some systems to be entirely hostile which would give them some time to make the assets for those areas if needs be.

Nah. Its about procedural creation in general. They are starting with procedural asteroid creation, then they will go for procedural blocks of zones, then into bigger areas and then maybe planets if they achieve acceptable fidelity.

CIG also heavily researched modular creation on zones, especially cities blocks etc.

I imagined that was the case because to make an entire team just to create Proc Gen for planet layout only would have seen like a waste of money and effort.

 

[Arcoril]

Found this quote on reddit from Rob Reininger, Senior Technical Designer.

If this is an indication of the mindset of CIG employees, this gives me an enormous amount of confidence. They really want this game to be revolutionary.

I'm super hopeful that everything comes together and that it's amazing. I've sunk in more money than I'd care to admit, so I've definitely got a horse in this race.

But just to balance out that enthusiasm, check out their Glassdoor Reviews. As always, take everything posted there with a grain of salt.

 

[Danthrax]

Oh, i must have misunderstood because you mentioned getting another 95 systems done in a year. I thought you meant explorable planets not just landing zones/cities. It is doubtful that all the systems will have landing zones. It wouldn't make sense that all the systems would have that. I also imagine some systems to be entirely hostile which would give them some time to make the assets for those areas if needs be.

Yeah, not every system will have landing zones. Some will be empty aside from jump points, like in Wing Commander Privateer. Others will have just one planet on which you can land. Others will have two or three or more planets on which you can land. Some planets will even have multiple landing zones.

Quite a few systems are supposed to be controlled by alien races, but I think those should be considered part of the final tally of systems in the final PU — no excuses! =P

 

[Kabouter]

But just to balance out that enthusiasm, check out their Glassdoor Reviews. As always, take everything posted there with a grain of salt.

Wow, that sounds really bad. Unfortunate

 

[MGHA]

Wow, that sounds really bad. Unfortunate

Wow, never thought Chris Roberts would use such tactics.

 

[kutthoat5150]

I'm a huge SC fan as anybody in this thread, all hail the mighty claw,and I'm sure Chris's vision will become a reality eventually. But my big worry is that he shot himself in the foot by promising over 400 landing locations during the initial campaign. He mentioned that his first design for planet side wasn't in first person and more like wing commander. Now that funding has increased he is able to expand on this. Arc Corp and Terra have both taken over a year to design, and I'm wondering how long it'll be before we even get 50 landing locations. Hopefully their systems for building environments are sophisticated enough to crank them out fast enough without people becoming bored of the same levels.

At cigs peak efficiency and keeping the same level of quality , how many environments do you realistically think they can make a year now that their only about 2 per year and still developing their Internal systems for planet generation? 10, 20 per year?

 

[~Kinggi~]

I'm super hopeful that everything comes together and that it's amazing. I've sunk in more money than I'd care to admit, so I've definitely got a horse in this race.

But just to balance out that enthusiasm, check out their Glassdoor Reviews. As always, take everything posted there with a grain of salt.

Holy hell what a shitshow. Glad i havent invested a lot into this project. I like this quote the best

Crowdfunding from backers is being spent inefficiently due to owner's refusal to re-order development more efficiently, spending thousands of dollars on expensive dinners, paying personal expenses, etc.

Tons of backer money is being poorly spent on inefficient / outdated development methods, expensive sports cars, fancy dinners etc. That money should be going to the game and hiring more staff to get the tasks finished.
Employee moral is really low.
There's no real game plan, just making it up as it goes along.

Suckers.

 

[Agremont]

Well that's a shame.

 

[Big-E]

After a lot of the original people left I started to get worried. I was following it closely, would watch wingman's hangar every week but now I am just not caring anymore. They seem to add more and more stuff and the whole rental thing threw me in for a loop as that seems like way more of a hassle and something that could be added well after launch.

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Jeepers... that Glassdoor page is brutal.

Does that site require proof from people when posting from a specific workplace?

It's weird... SC should be the game of my dreams, but I just can't ditch this nagging feeling that it's all going to be a huge disappointment (I really hope it's great, truly).

 

[lacinius]

As someone already suggested, take everything at that Glassdoor site with a grain of salt. More specifically, it would seem the harsh messages that appear there were written by what seems to be one very disgruntled and obsessive SC fan who goes by the handle: jcrg99

He has multiple accounts at multiple gaming sites, and additional sock puppet accounts to make it appear that there are others in agreement with his claims. A Google search on his handle will lead you to the rabbit hole if you wish to go down it, but there is this thread over at the RSI forums where some of the members there started to piece together the bread crumb trail that leads to rather compelling evidence that the Glassdoor stuff was all written by the same person... so, yeah. (the evidence starts to be revealed on page 4)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/197262/i-m-skeptical-but-this-disturbs-me

 

[Blizzard]

After a lot of the original people left I started to get worried. I was following it closely, would watch wingman's hangar every week but now I am just not caring anymore. They seem to add more and more stuff and the whole rental thing threw me in for a loop as that seems like way more of a hassle and something that could be added well after launch.

That's sort of the way I feel as well. SO MUCH money has been raised that I feel like a great game could be made, and servers maintained, and more content developed, purely from the existing funding and continued sales. Maybe some pay-to-accelerate-progress stuff ingame though I rather wish it didn't exist.

Maybe it's a pipedream for me to think that the money could be used to do that with proper efficient management and lack of waste. I kind of wish they didn't do the rental thing, and didn't keep selling ships, and were like "We're going to see what we can do with the first 30 million and ask for more if we determine we need it".

*edit*

As someone already suggested, take everything at that Glassdoor site with a grain of salt. More specifically, it would seem the harsh messages that appear there were written by what seems to be one very disgruntled and obsessive SC fan who goes by the handle: jcrg99

Even if everything on the Glassdoor page were made up, hasn't it STILL been confirmed that some of the original people have left the project? Has anyone confirmed to be on the projected talked about their reasons for being unhappy? I think it's reasonable that the truth lies somewhere between the good and bad extremes.

 

[Sax Russel]

I still mostly* have faith that SC will satisfy the expectations I have for it... eventually. Following it closely/keeping hype in the short term is just tooooo much effort. The last time I was really "wow"ed was the Arc Corp landing demo, but that already feels so long ago without any of that in sight, even though it's supposedly coming within a few months (albeit barebones/no interaction). What I really need to do is just unsub this thread/stop paying attention to 10 for the Chairman/Around the Verse and just check back on everything in like a year/when there's another big release.

*I say mostly because the use of Cryengine has always nagged me as not a great choice. It looks nice, but can it really support all these mechanics/systems that we're supposed to one day have? And that 64 bit conversion of theirs has been going on for what, a year now? With lots of issues coming up? And they can't very well design/create much in the way of PU/S42 content without that sorted, since map size/vehicle precision is completely dependent on it.

Blah. Don't want to say "deflated" per se, but.... hype successfully put in reserve for now =P

 

[lacinius]

*edit*

Even if everything on the Glassdoor page were made up, hasn't it STILL been confirmed that some of the original people have left the project? Has anyone confirmed to be on the projected talked about their reasons for being unhappy? I think it's reasonable that the truth lies somewhere between the good and bad extremes.

Yes indeed, very much quite reasonable. I tend to feel it is all part of the growing pains of trying to startup and expand a new company as well develop the game on top of that, and the ups and downs that go along with both.

 

[KKRT00]

As someone already suggested, take everything at that Glassdoor site with a grain of salt. More specifically, it would seem the harsh messages that appear there were written by what seems to be one very disgruntled and obsessive SC fan who goes by the handle: jcrg99

He has multiple accounts at multiple gaming sites, and additional sock puppet accounts to make it appear that there are others in agreement with his claims. A Google search on his handle will lead you to the rabbit hole if you wish to go down it, but there is this thread over at the RSI forums where some of the members there started to piece together the bread crumb trail that leads to rather compelling evidence that the Glassdoor stuff was all written by the same person... so, yeah. (the evidence starts to be revealed on page 4)

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/197262/i-m-skeptical-but-this-disturbs-me

Yeah, i think thats very possible. The comments being only in about two-three weeks bracket seems like could support this thesis.

------

*I say mostly because the use of Cryengine has always nagged me as not a great choice. It looks nice, but can it really support all these mechanics/systems that we're supposed to one day have? And that 64 bit conversion of theirs has been going on for what, a year now? With lots of issues coming up? And they can't very well design/create much in the way of PU/S42 content without that sorted, since map size/vehicle precision is completely dependent on it.

Blah. Don't want to say "deflated" per se, but.... hype successfully put in reserve for now =P

Its more like 6-7 months, but content creation is completely separated from double precision physics. One do not affect other. Its more like changing parameters into double precision and rewritting some physics and pointers to support it.
Double precision also wont be relevant on planets, its only for space gameplay.

 

[Geist-]

Does that site require proof from people when posting from a specific workplace?

You can literally just sign up anonymously and post a review without proof.

There might be a real employee among the reviews, but there's no way to know the difference between an actual employee and a troll.

Even if everything on the Glassdoor page were made up, hasn't it STILL been confirmed that some of the original people have left the project? Has anyone confirmed to be on the projected talked about their reasons for being unhappy? I think it's reasonable that the truth lies somewhere between the good and bad extremes.

Eric 'Wingman' Peterson was the big name that left the project but AFAIK that was because Chris asked him to move to Santa Monica and he didn't want to leave Austin. He still vocally supports Star Citizen.

There was also a ship designer that I forget the name of that left because he's now designing ships for the new Star Wars. There are probably a few more that I'm forgetting.

 

[Zabojnik]

Chris Roberts is a hack.

 

[bj00rn_]

Holy hell what a shitshow. Glad i havent invested a lot into this project. I like this quote the best





Suckers.

I bet you wrote those "reviews"..

 

[Jackpot]

I just wanted Squadron 42. Remember that very first trailer?

 

[Dictator93]

Yeah, take the glass door reviews with a number of salt grains in hand.

Of course people have left the project over time, it has grown and certain studios have changed priorities (austin specifically). I find it hard to believe that it must be sooo bad to work there if people leave dambusters, crytek, blur, and other studios to get a chance at CIG.

 

[Raticus79]

You can literally just sign up anonymously and post a review without proof.

There might be a real employee among the reviews, but there's no way to know the difference between an actual employee and a troll.

They carry as much weight as random pastebin posts. It's just in a fancy web form where people can only "upvote" things and the only way to oppose something is to add your own review to the pile. Apparently they make money from the recruiting side of it. http://corcodilos.com/blog/7453/can-i-trust-glassdoor-reviews

 

[Geist-]

Good stuff today.

Around the Verse Episode 33

Sneak Peak

Reverse the Verse Notes

Orion Mining Mini-game

 

[Dictator93]

Todd Pappy (God of War, God of War 2, GoW Ascension, Ryse) has left Crytek and joined CIG at the new Squadron 42 office in Frankfurt.

Source: https://twitter.com/ToddPapy/status/571215979956609024

 

[Danthrax]

Todd Pappy (God of War, God of War 2, GoW Ascension, Ryse) has left Crytek and joined CIG at the new Squadron 42 office in Frankfurt.

Source: https://twitter.com/ToddPapy/status/571215979956609024

If CIG can't buy Crytek, it'll just hire away all of its employees!

 

[Dictator93]

If CIG can't buy Crytek, it'll just hire away all of its employees!

It is really... and I mean really, starting to look like this.

I wonder when, if, whether Nicolas Schulz will jump ship.

 

[Geist-]

If CIG can't buy Crytek, it'll just hire away all of its employees!

Definitely the cheaper solution. The amount of veteran talent leaving established studios to work on this game is almost surreal.

 

[Zabojnik]

Definitely the cheaper solution. The amount of veteran talent leaving established studios to work on this game is almost surreal.

Yeah, but just wait until they learn that female family members aren't welcome at the studio when the Marketing VP is there.

 

[Kabouter]

Hmmm, everyone can fly the Cutlass Black in Arena Commander for the coming week. I thought it'd be fun looking through the whole thing, but it seems like even if you land it in free flight mode, you can't actually use the door to get into the hold. Oh well, still a pretty neat ship to fly, but not something I'd want to get in the PU I think.

 

[mkenyon]

Neat, I've often been on the fence about the Cutlass (95% chance my friends and I will be Pirates). Definitely want to give it a spin.

 

[Geist-]

Hmmm, everyone can fly the Cutlass Black in Arena Commander for the coming week. I thought it'd be fun looking through the whole thing, but it seems like even if you land it in free flight mode, you can't actually use the door to get into the hold. Oh well, still a pretty neat ship to fly, but not something I'd want to get in the PU I think.

Really? I used to do it all the time. Maybe it's a bug with 1.0.3.

Neat, I've often been on the fence about the Cutlass. Definitely want to give it a spin.

Just a warning, some of the thrusters don't work yet and it's getting a pretty substantial change in the coming months. It's still fun to fly, but don't expect it to be particularly good in dogfights.

 

[Kabouter]

Really? I used to do it all the time. Maybe it's a bug with 1.0.3.

Yeah, landed it twice, couldn't open the door either time. Could only walk around inside the cockpit.

Edit: Works on restart, weird. But yay

 

[KKRT00]

If CIG can't buy Crytek, it'll just hire away all of its employees!

Yeah, i think thats one way to do it.
I really think that CIG Frankfurt studio is next door to Crytek

 

[ScepticMatt]

I really think that CIG Frankfurt studio is next door to Crytek

I haven't seen any CIG plate when I applied for a company in the same building complex.

 

[KKRT00]

I haven't seen any CIG plate when I applied for a company in the same building complex.

I didnt mean literally, just in close proximity

Btw when did You applied? They opened studio there in December or January.

Slightly offtopic, I'm pretty surprised that You want to leave Switzerland for Germany though

 

[ScepticMatt]

Btw when did You applied? They opened studio there in December.

Earlier - I would have missed it then.

I'm pretty surprised that You want to leave Switzerland for Germany though

I'm Austrian. It would have been a good job there.

 

[Zalusithix]

Hmmm, everyone can fly the Cutlass Black in Arena Commander for the coming week. I thought it'd be fun looking through the whole thing, but it seems like even if you land it in free flight mode, you can't actually use the door to get into the hold. Oh well, still a pretty neat ship to fly, but not something I'd want to get in the PU I think.

I have an AE Aurora sitting around waiting for an CCU, so I guess I'll see how much I like the Cutlass. I've never been a huge fan of the ship, but it's either that or a second Hornet. The idea of a second Hornet seems kind of redundant, but the stealth variant could compliment the Super Hornet.

 

[mkenyon]

For people who have an Avenger, how are you enjoying it?

 

[Sax Russel]

About looking at the interiors of these loaner ships, if you go to your account's hangar settings page and clear all your pledged ships from hangar slots, then load it up, the loaner ship will show up in your hangar:

So you don't have to go land them in free flight mode =D

 

[Kabouter]

About looking at the interiors of these loaner ships, if you go to your account's hangar settings page and clear all your pledged ships from hangar slots, then load it up, the loaner ship will show up in your hangar:



So you don't have to go land them in free flight mode =D

Nice! thanks for the tip

 

[Dictator93]

About looking at the interiors of these loaner ships, if you go to your account's hangar settings page and clear all your pledged ships from hangar slots, then load it up, the loaner ship will show up in your hangar:



So you don't have to go land them in free flight mode =D

Fantastic tip. I was really curious about this.

 

[qwetwrw]

Realistically, what goals have CIG set for themselves that have the possibility of not being achieved?

They've already shown demos of the FPS, Social, and Multi-crew demos, so we know they will be completed in some playable form. After that it's the Persistent Universe and Squadron 42, which we admittedly know little about, but considering those 2 are literally the games we paid for I'd say there is a pretty good chance that we will see some version of them soon.

So that means all of the major modules should be in the game in some form. What's left is the fluff, the stuff that would make the game a lot of fun and very immersive, but doesn't necessarily need to be in the final game at launch and could be saved for a future patch or (hopefully) free DLC.

A few examples, the multi-crew systems sounds great, but probably won't be in when multi-crew ships are launched. Making looking at a scanner, or managing shields fun and challenging requires a bit of work and ingenuity that may cause a delay.

Same with mining and salvaging, they keep saying that those 2 career paths will be fun and challenging, but it sounds like a lot of work.

And then there are the stretch goals like pets, Alien languages, and ship modularity. While I have faith in CIG, that's a lot of work for a 2016 release date and I wouldn't blame CIG if they wanted to save some of those for some future patches/DLC (free for backers, paid for people who bought the game after release?).

I agree. CUG has almost unlimited cash at this point, so their only constraint is time. I think they will delay if necessary to ensure the game lives up to its promises.

 

[qwetwrw]

I'm super hopeful that everything comes together and that it's amazing. I've sunk in more money than I'd care to admit, so I've definitely got a horse in this race.

But just to balance out that enthusiasm, check out their Glassdoor Reviews. As always, take everything posted there with a grain of salt.

Ouch. One of Glassdoor's biggest virtues is that it is anonymous, so it tries to encourage the truth in company reviews.

That being said, any organization can produce disgruntled employees.

 

[Zalusithix]

Ouch. One of Glassdoor's biggest virtues is that it is anonymous, so it tries to encourage the truth in company reviews.

That being said, any organization can produce disgruntled employees.

Being anonymous with no verification doesn't produce anything more truthful than what you'd read in your average tabloid. Any credible news publication that gives a source anonymity to publicly protect them will have at least internally verified them. Hell, even this site tries to verify insiders. Trusting what you read on the internet is tough enough. Trusting the inside knowledge of an unverified anonymous internet source... Lets just say it needs to be taken with a wall breaking, car crushing load of salt.