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Star Wars Outlaws' Director: 'Bad Faith' Discourse About Protagonist's Appearance 'Not Worth Engaging In'
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
Astral Dog
Member
Barakov
Gold Member
Definitely agree. A little honestly from western devs in general would go a long way in lessening a lot of the internet drama we see.
The Mad Draklor
Member
And that's something that should be emphasized. There are already a few strawman "you just want the character look like a porn star" posts, but they falsely portray attractiveness as binary when it is on a spectrum. Being 'anti-ugly' =/= Wanting characters to be "fuckable".From perspective of western devs, "attractive" characters is considered childish and immature, why? I have no fucking idea.
I'm not even asking them make them "sexy", just dont make them look ugly as fuck.
Here is a character from MH Wilds and is not exactly what would you call "sexy" but doesn't look any where ugly.
feynoob
Banned
I disagree with you there.
Gamers these days look for FAP materials for their female characters.
Big ass and big boobs.
Fbh
Gold Member
I don't really think that is true.
While some might not want to admit it, when playing as a male character most men also want to play as a good looking (or cool and/or badass looking) character.
Women get singled out because:
A) There isn't as much "uglyfying" of male characters, because there has never been the same negativity regarding good looking men in media.
B) There just aren't really that many new male main characters in big western games. Like seriously, what's the last western AAA game with a male character that isn't an established character from an established IP with a predefined look which was established last gen (like Kratos), and isn't a game with a character creator (like Hogwarts Legacy, Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate, etc)
Maybe Basim in AC Mirage?
And oh look he is a traditionally attractive Arab dude:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Nah, this is just too subjective.
What you think is attractive will be different from what someone else does.
No developer needs to change anything for anyone, that means including something in a game or excluding something in a game. Keep in mind, even if you and I agree with who we both think is attractive or not, that doesn't mean the developer MUST put that person in the game, no law, rule or design idea argues anything that ONLY ATTRACTIVE people can be in a game.
Whats the fucking game about?
For all you know we make a game about a garbage man, down on his luck who finds some alien artifact in the trash or some elderly person that finds someone who killed his wife 50 years ago in a nursing home seeking revenge or something. Why would what you and I find attractive come into play regarding that? That is even more weird and shallow.
Be like "Sexy garbage man" and or "Sexy grampa" lol I get Hollywood loves to do that, but that is just as shallow an stupid. Not all design needs to be based on someone getting an erection, its weird and suggest you are buying games for really odd reasons lol I watch lots of shows and movies where I find the whole fucking cast ugly, but the point of the film was not for me to masterbate to sir, thus how can I get mad if the point was never even that in the first place? So if you think she is ugly, you are free to think that.
Your opinion regarding it, even my own is irrelevant.
If the developer does not what this, it is their right to ignore what is being stated, they cannot make any charge 100% agree with.
No one can.
So I don't subscribe to the notion of making games by the numbers, why the fuck would I agree with changing a character cause your pp no hard? Even if everyone in this thread told me they felt the character was ugly and I was making this game, I wouldn't change shit.
Let developers make their damn games. If you don't like it, go make a game where you can make the characters look how YOU like, that is not the job of another designer. developer etc.
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Yea, no.. what the fuck? You can speak for yourself regarding that (as...very sus, but ok)
I don't play anything based on that weird shit lol I don't care what the fuck that character looks like and I've never played a game for some sus fucking reason like that lol
So...I'm not playing a game based on wanting to be those characters or liking them in terms of attraction, I'm not avoiding anything for those reason either.
Fuck you telling me, when those FPS games move millions, they getting an erection looking at dem guns on screen? lol
Goat Simulator moved millions cause...like, someone attracted to that or? lol
People got some fetish for blocks from Tetris and erections for candy crush or some shit? lol I joke, but I'm making a point. People are not fucking just playing games for theses weird fucking reason, you are talking about a video game that you play, not pornography, not Miss America Pageant (or in your situation, Mr lolz)
Its a fake game made for fun. Of the games I bought this year and of the games I've pre-ordered this year, I don't find any of the characters attractive lol
Generic
Member
He's right.
Star Wars Outlaws' Director: 'Bad Faith' Discourse About Protagonist's Appearance 'Not Worth Engaging In' - IGN
Star Wars Outlaws creative director Julian Gerighty says "bad faith" discourse about protagonist Kay Vess is "not worth engaging in": "There's no nuance and no possibility of real dialogue."www.ign.com
lughnasadh123
Member
She at worst falls in the "bad ass" bracket then. But still, there's simply no comparison with your examples and women needing to pass a fuckable test. It's absurd.I don't really think that is true.
While some might not want to admit it, when playing as a male character most men also want to play as a good looking (or cool and/or badass looking) character.
Women get singled out because:
A) There isn't as much "uglyfying" of male characters, because there has never been the same negativity regarding good looking men in media.
B) There just aren't really that many new male main characters in big western games. Like seriously, what's the last western AAA game with a male character that isn't an established character from an established IP with a predefined look which was established last gen (like Kratos), and isn't a game with a character creator (like Hogwarts Legacy, Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate, etc)
Maybe Basim in AC Mirage?
And oh look he is a traditionally attractive Arab dude:
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Bad faith? Like the Olympics?
Moriarty1889
Member
Exactly and yet some people on here are defending this lunacy which is running rampant in gaming as of late.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
To be clear before some of you jump down this rabbit hole of assuming disagreeing with you is supporting 1 side or the other, I'm defending the right of a developer to make a game how they see fit.
They don't need to removed something cause you are crying about it and made a Petition
They don't need to include something cause "bluehairs" are crying about it and made a Petition
Don't like it? Make your own games. (with blackjack and hookers) No one needs to change or alter their game from this.
Regarding either side of this circus....
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Tell me if you watch attractive actor in a movie are you gonna "FAP" to it? Video game just like Movies are entertainment we want good looking character male and female in our entertainment.
Like I explained from last post I'm not even asking them to make them sexy, I just asking not make them ugly.
But in the end its their game they can do what they want but in all honestly this is one of my reason why I'm losing interest in most western games.
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Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Star Wars Outlaws' Director: 'Bad Faith' Discourse About Protagonist's Appearance 'Not Worth Engaging In' - IGN
Star Wars Outlaws creative director Julian Gerighty says "bad faith" discourse about protagonist Kay Vess is "not worth engaging in": "There's no nuance and no possibility of real dialogue."
She's NOT attractive and people are sick of getting ugly women as protagonists. It's very simple actually. If you think about it HE is arguing I'm bad faith pretending he doesn't "get" where people are coming from!
Stop making ugly women characters for your forced agenda. Notice the difference between Asian female characters and Western ...they're 9/10 tastefully done these days and are actually nice to look at.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I've noticed A LOT of Gaffers defending woke ideologies lately! Just an observation ...
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Worst ever. Crazy, some highly paid EA Bioware employee actually made this.This isn't the problem though and pretending that it is is disingenuous. The problem is that when it comes to men, the model looks very close to the character, but when it comes to women, the character is suddenly much uglier than the woman. Surely, if it isn't an issue how "fuckable" characters are, whether they are attractive or not shouldn't be relevant. They should simply make them look close to their models whether they are ugly or not, but they don't do that. The explicitly make female characters look worse.
That they purposefully make women ugly is questionable. We also know why they do this because we've seen DEI recommendations specifically saying to avoid making women too attractive. You can't tell us to ignore politics when we aren't even the ones who have politicized how attractive characters are in the first place.
This is ME Andromeda all over again.
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Fbh
Gold Member
Yea, no.. what the fuck? You can speak for yourself regarding that (as...very sus, but ok)
I don't play anything based on that weird shit lol I don't care what the fuck that character looks like and I've never played a game for some sus fucking reason like that lol
So...I'm not playing a game based on wanting to be those characters or liking them in terms of attraction, I'm not avoiding anything for those reason either.
Fuck you telling me, when those FPS games move millions, they getting an erection looking at dem guns on screen? lol
Goat Simulator moved millions cause...like, someone attracted to that or? lol
People got some fetish for blocks from Tetris and erections for candy crush or some shit? lol I joke, but I'm making a point. People are not fucking just playing games for theses weird fucking reason, you are talking about a video game that you play, not pornography, not Miss America Pageant (or in your situation, Mr lolz)
Its a fake game made for fun. Of the games I bought this year and of the games I've pre-ordered this year, I don't find any of the characters attractive lol
First of I don't know what you are on about. Goats and Tetris blocks aren't people (Tetris blocks don't have genders either).
We both know what I'm talking about but you decided to cut off my phrase at a random point and react to that for some reason.
Secondly, you think most popular, well known male characters are good and/or cool looking just by chance? or because they were trying to get to the female audience? or they were made by gay men who wanted good looking dudes in their games? lol, sure buddy.
I'm sure you'd have been just as interested in Metal Gear and would totally still be using a Big Boss avatar if he looked like this
After all it's all about the story and gameplay for you, right?
God of War would have been just as appealing to male gamers if Kratos looks like this
Only a weirdo would want to play as a badass jacked spartan warrior, it's ONLY the gameplay that appealed to everyone
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Couldn't have said it any better ^
feynoob
Banned
Actors wear pretty clothes, not skimpy ones with big boobs.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Nope.
I do not play games for those reasons...so no, I don't know what you are talking about, you can only speak for you. If you are playing something for that reason, then shit its 2024, all power to you.
Sure, but the point is simple, people clearly play games for fun, if those games can sell millions with things that "aren't people" clearly this shows the main objective for anyone playing game often is not going to do with what you are talking about, they might just be playing a game for fun.
Some of the biggest selling games yearly, Fifa, Madden, COD etc Fifa they are so far away from the screen, to say someone is playing it based on attraction is odd and the roster is based on real life players lol They do not pick soccer players in the sport in REAL LIFE based on this fucking shit, thus why would the game sales matter based on the looks of the people in it? Same with Madden and that is even worse ,they have helmets on (unless that is something you are into lol, I won't judge)
and finally Call Of Duty, a game where 90% of the time in it, is looking at a gun, yet record sales.
GTA V...I don't find any of those characters good looking or attractive, I'd argue Trevor's character LITERALLY IS THE OPPOSITE OF ALL OF THAT! lol FoH man, that makes no sense I just don't buy MOST or Majority are buying for any of these reasons.
Yup.
Sir, I first played that series, it was a bunch of fucking pixels lol
I played MGS for the concept of what it was, what the characters looked like was secondary.... Its as if you are so deep into this fucking circus, you can't understand some of us actually fucking play games for fun.
Do you really think I gave a fucking shit FAT MAN looked like this or?
Was I suppose to make a conspiracy on this or? Oh, make a petition to stop it from releasing? lol
God of War would have been just as appealing to male gamers if Kratos looks like this
Your problem is you're trying to force a straw man and create an argument that's not being made
What I'm telling you is the characters being attractive or not is irrelevant to me and now what you're trying to force as an argument is whether or not the people belong in that universe based on their characters by showing some skinny white person with a headband suggesting being in God of war would make sense with this person or something when that's not even remotely what I'm fucking saying.
I feel the garbage man should look one in the game, I feel the solder should look like one in a game about one and clearly i feel a smuggler should look like one in a game, I never suggested otherwise, merely that them being ATTRACTIVE wasn't some necessity.
If the developer wishes to create the game how they want to, that should be their right.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Not sure why EDMIX is liking my posts considering I'm calling your way of thinking out.
nkarafo
Member
Thats right. Many devs seem very concerned about this and try to avoid making attractive characters.
feynoob
Banned
Some people worked on a horse nut. These people are at least professional.Worst ever. Crazy, some highly paid EA Bioware employee actually made this.
KXVXII9X
Member
This board gets very weird about needing "attractive" characters for some odd reason. My issue on the character model isn't that she is or isn't attractive, it is more her model looks off with the eyes. Something looks very uncanny about them, and it looks alien/reptilian like. I get what they are trying to do with the retro 80's hair. Her eyes just look like they are scaled a bit too large.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
The deep lolz, holy shit...did you not notice it was the laughing emoji? lol
My "way of thinking" ? The fuck are you talking about?
Some of you are so fucking desperate to argue with some blue-haired person even people just merely disagreeing with you , you're desperately trying to fucking force this conversation that it's their "way of thinking" as if someone must be part of some other side to fucking disagree with you.
I've made clear multiple times what I'm defending is the right of any developer to create what they want and I originally had this argument literally years ago when SJW was even emerged arguing about changes they wanted in games based on the stupidest of reasons.
So why the fuck are you surprised that stance has remained just because you're part of some other side, does not mean my opinion regarding that has changed just because you also dislike the same group
So why you guys thought that must instantly means someone supports the other side is beyond me
I think some of you really, really wish someone was arguing those points so you can argue with them or something lol
Why would I buy Hogwarts Legacy day 1 if any of that was my "way of thinking"? lol
I think anyone is slow and needs help if they are making petitions, boycotting games for things that have nothing to do with the actual game or wanting things changed in the game for reasons that have nothing to do with the game itself,
Twas funny and stupid when folks did it with Hogwarts, did you think the other side like...got a pass from that? lol Nahhh, anti-woke are in that same circus lol
So again, a developer has the right to make their game how they feel just, make your own game.
Fbh
Gold Member
Nope.
I do not play games for those reasons...so no, I don't know what you are talking about, you can only speak for you. If you are playing something for that reason, then shit its 2024, all power to you.
Sure, but the point is simple, people clearly play games for fun, if those games can sell millions with things that "aren't people" clearly this shows the main objective for anyone playing game often is not going to do with what you are talking about, they might just be playing a game for fun.
Some of the biggest selling games yearly, Fifa, Madden, COD etc Fifa they are so far away from the screen, to say someone is playing it based on attraction is odd and the roster is based on real life players lol They do not pick soccer players in the sport in REAL LIFE based on this fucking shit, thus why would the game sales matter based on the looks of the people in it? Same with Madden and that is even worse ,they have helmets on (unless that is something you are into lol, I won't judge)
and finally Call Of Duty, a game where 90% of the time in it, is looking at a gun, yet record sales.
GTA V...I don't find any of those characters good looking or attractive, I'd argue Trevor's character LITERALLY IS THE OPPOSITE OF ALL OF THAT! lol FoH man, that makes no sense I just don't buy MOST or Majority are buying for any of these reasons.
Yup.
Sir, I first played that series, it was a bunch of fucking pixels lol
I played MGS for the concept of what it was, what the characters looked like was secondary.... Its as if you are so deep into this fucking circus, you can't understand some of us actually fucking play games for fun.
Do you really think I gave a fucking shit FAT MAN looked like this or?
Was I suppose to make a conspiracy on this or? Oh, make a petition to stop it from releasing? lol
Your problem is you're trying to force a straw man and create an argument that's not being made
What I'm telling you is the characters being attractive or not is irrelevant to me and now what you're trying to force as an argument is whether or not the people belong in that universe based on their characters by showing some skinny white person with a headband suggesting being in God of war would make sense with this person or something when that's not even remotely what I'm fucking saying.
I feel the garbage man should look one in the game, I feel the solder should look like one in a game about one and clearly i feel a smuggler should look like one in a game, I never suggested otherwise, merely that them being ATTRACTIVE wasn't some necessity.
If the developer wishes to create the game how they want to, that should be their right.
I'm the one trying to force a straw man.
Meanwhile you are trying to argue that the visual aesthetic of characters in games is irrelevant by bringing up the most bizarre examples you can think of
"What about the tetris blocks and goat simulator ?!?!?!" lol
Oh yeah Fatman, truly the most iconic Metal Gear character and the cornerstone of Metal Gear Visual design, one can truly trace the success of Metal Gear to the inclusion of that character design.
A faithful look that EDMIX is arguing has nothing to do with the appeal of the game or why Sony Santa Monic decided on that setting and visuals style for the game.
No one looked at a poster and was like "damn that dude looks cool, what game is this?"
It's all about the gameplay, nothing else.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
feynoob
Banned
That is a great picture. Not a skimpy suit. Fits the scene very well.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
lol Brining up Tetris was actually explained. It was not making a direct comparison, more for lolz and to show people buy games for reasons beyond what you are talking about.
I actually even explain why I used those examples btw
Ok, but him being attractive or not never hurt the game, kinda the point I'm making. We are aware that people play games for fun. The main point of all design isn't attractive lol
??? but that isn't what I say, read what I'm saying instead of rage posting.
^
So...i'm not suggesting someone should look out of place or look like they don't believe in that universe, I'm saying the developer has the right to have a character look attractive or not (as that is ultimately subjective)
Not that I wanted the lunch lady from the Simpsons to be Kratos or a Tire Swing to be the main bad guy in MGS or something dumb like this lol
That is a wild extreme that no one even stated btw
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
They literately only cloths covering them....
Also MANY movie have skimpy hot girls.
I love say thing AND yet is wester devs who proudly like announce their games have full nudity and sex.
Yes, Dragon Age: The Veilguard Has Nudity, And I've Seen It
And we're not talking implied nudity here.
www.gameinformer.com
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feynoob
Banned
Because of the scene.
That is the beach. Any skinny girl would look hot there.
Nudity and sex isn't the same as having them weak skimpy clothes and big asses. Those are scenes, which are part of the game.
Vs
Both are from the same guy.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
They literately only cloths covering them....
Also MANY movie have skimpy hot girls.
I love say thing AND yet is wester devs who proudly like announce their games have full nudity and sex.
Yes, Dragon Age: The Veilguard Has Nudity, And I've Seen It
And we're not talking implied nudity here.
I don't disagree that some do this, merely do not wish to generalize with "western devs"
From film, to gaming, to literature etc them being from the west doesn't mean they will all be alike no different then thing from the east will not all be a like.
Like, I agree big blockbuster Hollywood films can look that way, that isn't to say all from the west do this though.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Danjin44
Anyway, the industry is exploiting the horniess of people.
Just like at how one piece treated it's female cast.
The Eastern nation is exploiting that. They know very well that certain people will get hooked easily.
True.
I think you can find this sorta thing in many countries and it will just vary from artist to artist.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
You should take your own advice, dweeb.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Are you gonna "FAP" every time you see movie which girls on the beach?
How the fuck you are okay game have full on nudity and sex which add nothing to the actual game but characters being attractive and wearing hot cloth is big no.
Surprise, surprise people like attractive looking characters in entertainmentAnyway, the industry is exploiting the horniess of people.
Just like at how one piece treated it's female cast.
The Eastern nation is exploiting that. They know very well that certain people will get hooked easily.
I take that over showing ugly ass characters having sex in games.
So game like Stellar Blade is not proper?....why?A sexy female character isn't bad, if done properly.
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
A sexy female character isn't bad, if done properly.
Funny enough, I think only 1 of those 4 is attractive lol
(Hey listen, the lolz emoji is king lol Some times it just cause something said was funny, I actually don't always use that emoji cause I disagree, I actually agree with lots on here and will laugh if the point was funny or something lol So I don't want you to take that the lolz, is me disagreeing, i just found the example funny lol) - edit
? well..."people", it would depend on whom
Who is to even define "attractive"? I don't know 100% what you find attractive and you don't really know what I find attractive for any of that to make sense.
The person in the Last Of Us is "ugly" to you, but I'm sure you've seen some "ugly" people married right? In relationships right? This means, someone doesn't think they are ugly, at most...The Last Of Us could be a game about someone you think is ugly, simply existing.
As clearly...ugly people have sex, ugly people exist, for anyone to make it seem as if all games must subscribe to this idea of people looking like perfect models is shallow as hell and those that wish to avoid the idea of mediocrity and the standard of doing things and or status quo of the west, sure love arguing in favor of those Hollywood practices.
Because it is done by big Hollywood, does not mean that is some argument against any change or difference. Not all films or shows are created for that purpose, will all games doesn't need to be either.
Example. Empire.
There is some scene in the one of seasons of the show Empire of one of the characters having sex with the assistant of this record label, I need you to understand that if you look up rappers in real life and you look up their wives a lot of them are overweight lol
So to stress this even further if you and I wanted to tell some real life story about a rapper who had multiple girlfriends and baby mama's and was in the rap industry but also had all of this personal drama that was surrounding their life, When we are casting for the show are you sure we need to go the Hollywood route to show those women?
So even if your argument might be it's okay because it's some sort of biography, Do you not understand that clearly this means these things occur in real life and isn't some crime if it occurs in a show, game, movie etc? What if the show, game or movie is seeking to convey this?
So not everything needs to be CW and Maxim models lol
I'm okay with the creator to have the choice to make what they want in their entertainment in regards to conceptually what they're trying to convey.
So I like lots of characters and entertainment and I generally separate whether or not I'm attracted to them because this simply has no relevance to me regarding if I'm entertained or not
Breaking bad is one of my favorite shows of all time and none of the characters are attractive to me. lol
Let's relax I'm trying to force this idea that in order for it to exist there needs to be this attraction does this just doesn't make any sense.
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feynoob
Banned
Because I can skip the scene. I cant skip the characters skin.
That is not attractive. I think you need to reconsider what attractive means.
People are adults. Sex stuff is normal.I take that over showing ugly ass characters having sex in games.
So game like Stellar Blade is not proper?....why?
That is the entire reason for the model. To attract horny people.
Its what korean devs do.
Plus that country suffers from unrealistic beauty which they overdo on their games (played alot of korean games and mmo).