Star Wars: Rogue One Story Trailer

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TDLink said:
Changing the method of killing planets that the big superweapon employs doesn't change the fact that the story doesn't always have to be about heroes going up against a big superweapon.
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Again, why are you telling me this?

I don't recall making any claim about the story always having to be one way or another.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Again, why are you telling me this?

I don't recall making any claim about the story always having to be one way or another.
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For the record, I'm not trying to show some form of aggression towards you. We're having a discussion?

You're saying the similarities to the death star would be mitigated if it just sucked up stars instead of also firing a laser. I'm saying...not really? Instead of being 95% the same now it'd be 90% the same. It's still a big moon/planet sized weapon that kills planets.
 
TDLink said:
You're saying the similarities to the death star would be mitigated if it just sucked up stars instead of also firing a laser. I'm saying...not really? Instead of being 95% the same now it'd be 90% the same. It's still a big moon/planet sized weapon that kills planets.
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Ah, at last you are clearly addressing my point and not some other conversation you were having. Was that so hard? :P

Anyway, even if I accept your bogus percentages, (which overlook the inherent differences in visual depiction of destruction via laser vs sun death, as well as the plot openings such differences create), I'm afraid the similarities are still mitigated.

This actually can't be argued, unless you don't know what the word "mitigate" means.



EDIT - To address your stealth edit, why would I think you are showing me some form of aggression?

I just think you were initially reading something I did not say and are now backpedaling to frame it as though you weren't.

I can only speak for me and have no interest in defending positions I have not staked.
 
brandonh83 said:
It doesn't matter. It's called Star Wars. In order to have a star war you need a faction that has power and in a story about galactic power the opposing force needs a superweapon in order to be feared. The thing is that it makes sense.

If you have a problem with this it's very very likely that this thing is not for you.
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LMAO. "need, needs."

What a crock of nonsense. It doesn't need to keep being the Death Star. They could try to tell a different story.
duckroll said:
I don't think people have actual issue with the concept of a giant planet killing superweapon so much as how it is presented and used in the story. The comparison with nukes only works insofar as the concept of the Death Star itself.

The actual narrative laziness is how the resolution of the samey superweapon is the same each time. Build a giant spherical planet killing device with a huge laser, install it with a single tiny weak spot which fighters can get into and blow up. That's lazy and boring.

A more accurate comparison would be if every story involving superpowers having nukes ends with the hero racing against time to destroy a suitcase with a timer on it. That's lame enough as it is in generic action movies. Now imagine if there was an action franchise where that happens in every installment. Always nukes. Always a suitcase. Always a timer. It's boring.

Presentation matters, and Star Wars can certainly exist without being lazy. There are tons of Star Wars stories which don't rely on that which are good. There is nothing inherently "Star Wars" about a stupid ball of metal in space with a tiny weak point.
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Bingo.

Sheesh.
 
They are telling a different story. TFA's story is different than ANH's story. If you can't see that beyond oh there's another superweapon thingy then I cannot help you.

Like, I'm not making shit up. All you have to do is watch TFA and pay attention. That's all that is required.
 
It is the same story (ANH and TFA) and I prefer that story over the massive dump that is Ep I-III. SW needed just that when time and time again movie studios show us just how much they can fuck up major franchises. And in addition to that, the aboslute majority of scifi flicks is of utterly terrible quality, including about half of the SW franchise itself. They took the safe route with some interesting new plot threads. In a way, TFA felt like a remake/soft reboot, while still being a full on sequel. I really liked that. If fully believe the following episodes will deviate further from the formula. Furthermore, Disney is also experimenting with SW with these spin-offs, as we can see in this trailer.
 
Anyone else more excited for this than the next official episode? I don't know but I like the concept of following the regular people who are trying to fight the empire.
 
brandonh83 said:
It's still different.
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Not saying it isn't, just letting him know the context of your post and that you were discussing TFA, not Rogue One.

That being said, as similar as they are (similar, not identical), it executes everything it does similarly in a good wayear in my opinion, and it didn't make me enjoy TFA any less. I guess after years of prequels I needed something similar, and TFA did that with some excellent new elements and characters thrown in to the mix.
 
True Savior said:
It's the same story.
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Fist of the North Star and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure are both the same story because they both involve guys with muscles punching other guys until they die.

No wait, thats bullshit. Just like the assertion that ANH and TFA have "the same story". They have a similar structure, an TFA was intentionally made to echo major points from the ENTIRETY of the original trilogy, but the actual story and character arcs are pretty significantly different.
 
xsive said:
Well, you, obviously, since you're posting here. Me also, and I guess at least everyone else in this thread.





Are dissenting opinions suddenly not allowed on GAF? Like, I'm glad you both like the trailer and you're excited for this to release but I'm not. Can we talk about it please (the trailer, I mean) instead of talking past each other? Here, I'll start again:

I think this trailer is indicative of the fact that Star Wars is a tired franchise that has run out of ideas. The original movies, their cast and themes have reached such popularity that they are now a permanent part of the culture for two generations of people. I think the creatives who are working on these new modern Star Wars films grew up with the originals and are so enamoured with (or perhaps so intimidated by) them that they have no idea how to get out from underneath their long shadow.

I think Darth Vader was an interesting if slightly one-note villain and I think the hagiographic reverence with which he's treated in the prequels and in TFA is a mistake. OK he's cool but the Empire has lots of other cool space nazis we can love to hate. Grand Admiral Thrawn anyone? Grand Moff Tarkin perhaps? But no. We always come back to Vader and his bloody Death Stars. It's so boring!

Star Wars has become the Call of Duty of the film world: big and loud and showy and ultimately vapid.
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Tarkin was the driving force for the original death star overseeing it's construction. Vader is also not the villiannof the film and will end up being a glorified cameo.

xsive said:
Here's the thing: We've had three films centred around the threat of a Death Star. Four if you include Episode II where plans for it are discussed. The last one was less than a year ago. On top of that we have the other big reveal from this trailer: Darth Vader. Woo! Look out! Except there've been at least six films on the life and times of Darth Vader. Seven if you count the wannabe from the last film.

How much more of this crap do we need? Instead of giving us a new film, with an original cast and an original plot, we get yet another re-tread of the themes and characters from the old films. Are there really no other interesting people or interesting things happening in this universe?
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What did you expect when the Disney merger was announced Kathaleen Keneddy was honest with the fact that the numbered films will always be about the Skywalker lineage, while the story films are for other things. Even if you looked at Lucas's plans for the future of the series even back during the OT, everything would have still revolved around Luke.
 
thelastcrusader said:
Meh. After the horse shit that was episode 7 this didn't capture my attention or excite me.

I'm sure it will still sell like crazy though
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Keep fighting the good fight!

Visuals look fantastic and I reckon a few of the characters could end up being fan favourites which would be impressive as it's the only movie we'll ever see them in.
 
The bigger problem for me with the not-death star climax of Episode VII was how it had nothing to do with the rest of the movie's motivation about finding Luke. Copy-pasting something I said in an earlier thread:

They just arent connected at all. Its not like they have Luke captured and this is an obstacle they have to overcome to get to him. There's a difference between "this happen, so THIS happen" storytelling and "And then THIS happen, and then THIS happen". One of these follows events in a logical satisfying manner, the other just throws things up at you constantly hoping you'll be entertaining by the spectacle of it all.

It feels like its there only because they needed a big third act climax place and they couldn't figure out how to get Luke involved without him overtaking all the characters. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a giant third act climax happening in a cool location, but its something that needs to be built up over the course of the film and flow from the character motivations. When Sarah Conner and the crew assault CyberDyne in Terminator 2, this is a logical continuation from her established motivation to protect her son and the planet from Skynet. To do that, they're gonna stop Skynet from existing at all by getting in there and destroying the exoskeleton hand. When the Incredibles have to defeat Syndrome's giant weapon at the end, its satisfying because these disconnected, discontent characters who were banned from using their powers are now finally working together, confident in their abilities, fighting to save the world in public. And its wonderful dramatic irony in that Symdrone, in his giant scheme to destroy Mr. Incredible and all superheroes, actually ends up giving superheroes like Mr. Incredible and Frozone a perfect opportunity to show why they're important. When Tom Hanks in the gang from Saving Private Ryan have to defend that bridge at the end in the big climax, its because of the titular Private Ryan they've been trying to save the whole movie. The only way they're gonna get him is to stand and fight.

What does this Death Star thing have to do with our protagonist's motivation to find Luke Skywalker? What does this have to do with her desire for her family? How is this a dramatically satisfying and logical conclusion of the character motivations established in the first half of the film? Is it any wonder nobody gives a fuck about Poe and the gang blowing up the not-Death Star?
 
ViewtifulJC said:
The bigger problem for me with the not-death star climax of Episode VII was how it had nothing to do with the rest of the movie's motivation about finding Luke. Copy-pasting something I said in an earlier thread:

They just arent connected at all. Its not like they have Luke captured and this is an obstacle they have to overcome to get to him. There's a difference between "this happen, so THIS happen" storytelling and "And then THIS happen, and then THIS happen". One of these follows events in a logical satisfying manner, the other just throws things up at you constantly hoping you'll be entertaining by the spectacle of it all.

It feels like its there only because they needed a big third act climax place and they couldn't figure out how to get Luke involved without him overtaking all the characters. There's nothing inherently wrong with having a giant third act climax happening in a cool location, but its something that needs to be built up over the course of the film and flow from the character motivations. When Sarah Conner and the crew assault CyberDyne in Terminator 2, this is a logical continuation from her established motivation to protect her son and the planet from Skynet. To do that, they're gonna stop Skynet from existing at all by getting in there and destroying the exoskeleton hand. When the Incredibles have to defeat Syndrome's giant weapon at the end, its satisfying because these disconnected, discontent characters who were banned from using their powers are now finally working together, confident in their abilities, fighting to save the world in public. And its wonderful dramatic irony in that Symdrone, in his giant scheme to destroy Mr. Incredible and all superheroes, actually ends up giving superheroes like Mr. Incredible and Frozone a perfect opportunity to show why they're important. When Tom Hanks in the gang from Saving Private Ryan have to defend that bridge at the end in the big climax, its because of the titular Private Ryan they've been trying to save the whole movie. The only way they're gonna get him is to stand and fight.

What does this Death Star thing have to do with our protagonist's motivation to find Luke Skywalker? What does this have to do with her desire for her family? How is this a dramatically satisfying and logical conclusion of the character motivations established in the first half of the film? Is it any wonder nobody gives a fuck about Poe and the gang blowing up the not-Death Star?
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This is good. I'd also add it had nothing to do with the main characters.

The Force Awakens has three main viewpoint characters: Finn, Rey, and Kylo Ren. Han Solo could be considered a fourth main character or the most important supporting character. During the climax of the movie, Finn and Han go off to rescue Rey, Kylo Ren kills Han, and then Finn and Rey fight Kylo Ren. This part of the climax is engrossing because the players involved are characters whose motivations and personalities we know well. Not only that, but the family conflict between Han and Kylo and the battle for the lightsaber involve goals the characters have been pursuing.

On the other hand you have the X-Wing part of the climax and everything falls flat. The only "important" character is Poe Dameron, and he has no real character connection to Starkiller Base. Starkiller Base didn't kill a character he cared about, he's not destroying it to save one of the main characters, and it doesn't mark some moment of character growth. It's just the wisecracking pilot saving the day because the movie needed a final X-Wing battle. Not only that, but there's no villain to face down like Kylo Ren (Or like Darth Vader in A New Hope's final battle); instead it's just waves of faceless TIE Fighters and turrets.
 
I'm 100% onboard with the idea that Starkiller Base was unnecessary in TFA.

I also don't really feel harping on it constantly is particularly useful or is adding anything new to the conversation.

Also the Death Star in Rogue One (assuming this movie is even marginally competently written) will be nothing at all like how Starkiller Base was in TFA, so the comparison is very thin other than the fact that they both exist in the movies.
 
Fencedude said:
I'm 100% onboard with the idea that Starkiller Base was unnecessary in TFA.

I also don't really feel harping on it constantly is particularly useful or is adding anything new to the conversation.

Also the Death Star in Rogue One (assuming this movie is even marginally competently written) will be nothing at all like how Starkiller Base was in TFA, so the comparison is very thin other than the fact that they both exist in the movies.
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I think the only reason for the Starkiller base was the quickest way to trim the galactic fat and especially politics to get straight back to adventures. Star Wars doesn't need that sideshow. TFA took one for the team and had some good stuff of it's own.
 
Still not feeling this movie. The first trailer did nothing for me and this continues to not look and feel like Star Wars in any way. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's a spin-off and they can be different in tone and all that, but it just doesn't look that interesting to me. It seems woefully miscast.

We'll see when it hits I suppose.
 
Starkiller is an obstacle in the way of finding Luke. Rey initially turns down having any part to do with it all and is then kidnapped by Kylo as he himself is ALSO trying to find Luke. The events are set into motion because Kylo is after the map data that leads to Luke, after which obtaining it his motive is to track him down and kill him.

Kylo takes Rey to Starkiller as it's also the First Order's base. Rey has to escape before she can go find Luke, which she embraces as her destiny when Kylo Professor X's her head and she realizes this is more important than she first realized.

Finn wants to go to the base to save her and it happens to coincide with blowing it the fuck up. That's why the climax doesn't focus on it, it happens, but the story is between the characters. Starkiller absolutely is an obstacle and not only for Rey.
 
eXistor said:
Still not feeling this movie. The first trailer did nothing for me and this continues to not look and feel like Star Wars in any way.
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Someday someone who says this will actually back it up with how it doesn't feel like Star Wars.

Sadly, today does not seem to be that day.
 
Escape Goat said:
Why is there a map to find Luke? Who made it? I havent watched the movie in awhile and I didnt read the novel.
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I don't think we really know yet. One could speculate that Luke gave it to R2 with the intention of a specific person (Rey?) finding him. But he didn't want everyone to know where he was, again, for reasons unknown. VIII's gonna get into that probably.
 
Escape Goat said:
Why is there a map to find Luke? Who made it? I havent watched the movie in awhile and I didnt read the novel.
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It's a map to the the Planet that the first Jedi Temple is on. The map was presumedly in the Jedi Archives that the empire took control after the fall of the republic.
 
I think the question people have though is why Luke split it into fragments and hid them away. It's obviously because people are out to kill him, but I suspect that for some reason, at the right time, he wants someone to find him.

Could be the opposite too.
 
I remember reading that this film was essentially a heist film.

Even though the Death Star is in it, and the rebels want to destroy it, they do not destroy it in this film - that happens in ANH.

So I'm looking forward to a movie where they come up with a plan to steal the Death Star plans, there are behind enemy lines and everything turns to shit, some of the team dies or gets captured and there is a great ending chase scene.
 
I was hyped for this but setting it between ep 3 and 4 seems kind of pointless, especially when they're just retreading the same tired Death Star/Darth Vader plotlines again.

I hope the future side films will explore some completely unrelated stories.
 
CreepingFear said:
Hope they get the continuity right on Vader's suit. It was different in ANH era than it was in ESB and ROTJ. I will be watching out for that.
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Me too. They should've done it for RoTS as well, but I guess it can be explained that Vader wears different suits for some reason.
 
eXistor said:
Still not feeling this movie. The first trailer did nothing for me and this continues to not look and feel like Star Wars in any way. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's a spin-off and they can be different in tone and all that, but it just doesn't look that interesting to me. It seems woefully miscast.

We'll see when it hits I suppose.
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To me the setting alone is enough. I don't care about the new characters much at all. I'm just glad to see the Empire at full strength again in a Star Wars film.
 
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