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[Shrennin]

PCGamer put up their article on SWTOR for free, I suggest checking it out because it gives some interesting gameplay info that no other preview has given so far:

http://www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Jan10_StarWars.pdf

 

[Fox the Sly]

PCGamer put up their article on SWTOR for free, I suggest checking it out because it gives some interesting gameplay info that no other preview has given so far:

http://www.pcgamer.com/pdfs/Jan10_StarWars.pdf

Ah, thanks.

 

[Shrennin]

Ah, thanks.

It's no problem. It's a really interesting read and, while I think PCGamer was joking about the inspiration for the Imperial Agent, I'm now really considering that class.

Anyway, tomorrow we are getting an update through the main site, it is a video; however, do not expect it to be a major announcement. There will also be an update on New Years (1/1/10).

 

[Jube3]

Man I really hope I get access to the beta. This is shaping up really really well. They did a great job of nailing down classes because I have no idea what class I want to try first. I think the Poor Jedis are gonna be the Undead rogues of vanilla wow lol.

 

[Shrennin]

Man I really hope I get access to the beta. This is shaping up really really well. They did a great job of nailing down classes because I have no idea what class I want to try first. I think the Poor Jedis are gonna be the Undead rogues of vanilla wow lol.

Apparently the Jedi Knight is the class that would be the protagonist for the typical BioWare RPG so I'll definitely have to give that class a try some point (I'll eventually try to play every class, although I believe a class storyline is supposed to take at least 200 hours to complete and then you have endgame).

Anyway, this is the first MMO where I'm thinking about choosing a class whose origin is interesting and then developing my character from that rather than choosing a faction that I enjoy and then playing that faction's class.

 

[Panda Bear]

Man I am so pumped for this game. A couple GAF L4d regulars and I are thinking of making a party/guild. We'd have a set of characters on the Republic and one on Sith to experience both sides of the game. I'm personally thinking of going with a Jedi Knight and a Sith Agent. It's probably too early to start really organizing guilds or anything for this game but GAF definitely needs to have one.

 

[Servizio]

Soooo, is it possible to solo this game as if it were a single player KOTOR installment, completely and utterly ignoring the MMO aspect and experiencing the/a storyline in a semi timely fashion?

I saw someone say the storyline would take 200 hours per class, so I'm assuming there's probably going to be a lot of womprat grinding and running into 'You must be this Jedi to ride Korriban' signs.

 

[I should be doing hw]

Haven't really looked at this game much at all. Graphics seem pretty shitty, even for an MMO. Surely they can do better than that by now? The art direction is meh for me at the moment, don't love it nor do I hate it, not sure why they had to change the art style of the KOTOR franchise though, the original is perfect and would have been better with HD assets.
Regardless, Bioware make good games and I enjoy their style of dialogue and adventure so is there a way to sign up for a Beta or anything?

Edit:
Nvm, found it.

 

[Blackface]

Man I really hope I get access to the beta. This is shaping up really really well. They did a great job of nailing down classes because I have no idea what class I want to try first. I think the Poor Jedis are gonna be the Undead rogues of vanilla wow lol.

I think you mean the Night Elf Hunters.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Jedi hah!

I bet Bounty Hunters will dominate the game. Everyone wanna be the Fett

 

[border]

Looking at the PC Gamer article, it's kinda worrisome that every single class is exclusive to one particular faction. It's going to be nearly impossible to create any sort of PVE or PVP balance.

 

[Shrennin]

Looking at the PC Gamer article, it's kinda worrisome that every single class is exclusive to one particular faction. It's going to be nearly impossible to create any sort of PVE or PVP balance.

If you read this article by Darth Hater, you may change your mind on the PVE and PVP aspect:

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/29/the-guiding-principle-of-darth-haters-swtor-speculation/

It's purely speculation right now, of course, but the article does give proof on BioWare's method of development for the game (and also explains how BioWare may go about the PVE and PVP balancing).

 

[BattleMonkey]

Looking at the PC Gamer article, it's kinda worrisome that every single class is exclusive to one particular faction. It's going to be nearly impossible to create any sort of PVE or PVP balance.

PVE balance means what now? Who cares, it's largely single player style focus either way. The classes are also not completely exclusive as the classes are mirrored similar to Warhammer online. They are unique classes but they share many similarities and play mechanics, but they are still different.

 

[Blackface]

OP updated.

 

[Shrennin]

Just wanted to chime in and say that another planet has just been announced: Dromund Kaas.

What is Dromund Kaas, you say? Only the Capital Planet of the Sith!

Source: http://swtor.com/info/holonet/planets/dromund-kaas

To put this in perspective, so far we have:

Republic: Tython (Starting Planet for Jedi Knight and Consular), Ord Mantell (Starting Planet for the Smuggler and Trooper), and Coruscant (Capital Planet for the Republic).

Sith: Korriban (Starting Planet for Sith Warrior and Inquisitor), Dromund Kaas (Capital Planet for the Sith).

Neutral Planets: Hutta (Starting Planet for the Imperial Agent and the Bounty Hunter), Alderaan, and Tatooine.

Co-occupied Planets: Balmorra.

Current Planet Tally: 9 Planets.

Now, it could be said that Hutta is more aligned with the Sith (since it is a starting planet for two Sith classes) so it won't be as "neutral" as Alderaan and Tatooine if we assume that neutrality is the same as a contested area in a regular MMO.

 

[Vinci]

PVE balance means what now? Who cares, it's largely single player style focus either way. The classes are also not completely exclusive as the classes are mirrored similar to Warhammer online. They are unique classes but they share many similarities and play mechanics, but they are still different.

Oh yeah, Warhammer Online. Lovely job it did with balance.

 

[Shrennin]

Oh yeah, Warhammer Online. Lovely job it did with balance.

To be fair to BioWare, they didn't get their idea from Warhammer Online. They wanted the classes to first feel like a Star Wars class and then they tried to mold that into an MMO fold; however, they noted that while the classes between factions are not exactly similar, they do care about class balance.

The fact is that we'll just have to wait and see whether balance is maintained between the classes or not.

 

[Spire]

PVE balance means what now? Who cares, it's largely single player style focus either way. The classes are also not completely exclusive as the classes are mirrored similar to Warhammer online. They are unique classes but they share many similarities and play mechanics, but they are still different.

Single player focus for leveling, but we still don't have a clear picture of endgame, which is where most of your playtime is anyway. Balance will be an issue, but it always is. It's pretty much a given that balance will be whack at launch and get better over time, although it'll never be perfect. It's the unwritten law of MMO classes.

 

[Shrennin]

Single player focus for leveling, but we still don't have a clear picture of endgame, which is where most of your playtime is anyway. Balance will be an issue, but it always is. It's pretty much a given that balance will be whack at launch and get better over time, although it'll never be perfect. It's the unwritten law of MMO classes.

Yup, even now there is great unbalance between classes in the most popular MMO: World of Warcraft.

I'm not actually expecting class balance because no MMO has really achieved that to this day (or at least no MMO that I have played).

 

[Vinci]

To be fair to BioWare, they didn't get their idea from Warhammer Online. They wanted the classes to first feel like a Star Wars class and then they tried to mold that into an MMO fold; however, they noted that while the classes between factions are not exactly similar, they do care about class balance.

As did Mythic. Doesn't mean it worked. And neither will this. One reason why I hate that MMOs are virtually all class-based rather than skill-based now is because it leads to stupid arguments between players about this mythical 'balance' they all so desperately want (only really don't).

Oh well. We'll see how Bioware does. I'm not expecting miracles though. If they at least get PvE right, I'm happy. PvP is allowed to suck in MMOs, unless it's absolutely vital to one's experience with the game (see WAR and EVE, for alternating examples).

 

[Shrennin]

As did Mythic. Doesn't mean it worked. And neither will this. One reason why I hate that MMOs are virtually all class-based rather than skill-based now is because it leads to stupid arguments between players about this mythical 'balance' they all so desperately want (only really don't).

Oh well. We'll see how Bioware does. I'm not expecting miracles though. If they at least get PvE right, I'm happy. PvP is allowed to suck in MMOs, unless it's absolutely vital to one's experience with the game (see WAR and EVE, for alternating examples).

I'm not expecting miracles either - I've never been a PVPer, largely because of class imbalance. If BioWare somehow does get it right though, then I'll be largely amazed.

This article by DarthHater has given me some hope (it's still pure speculation but there is evidence behind DarthHater's theory on BioWare's class design):

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/29/the-guiding-principle-of-darth-haters-swtor-speculation/

I recommend reading it because, while I'm not one for fan speculation, the article makes many good and reasonable points that make sense in the context of what BioWare has said. I'll bold some points if you want, but the article really isn't that long.

 

[Vinci]

I'm not expecting miracles either - I've never been a PVPer, largely because of class imbalance. If BioWare somehow does get it right though, then I'll be largely amazed.

This article by DarthHater has given me some hope (it's still pure speculation but there is evidence behind DarthHater's theory on BioWare's class design):

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/29/the-guiding-principle-of-darth-haters-swtor-speculation/

I recommend reading it because, while I'm not one for fan speculation, the article makes many good and reasonable points that make sense in the context of what BioWare has said. I'll bold some points if you want, but the article really isn't that long.

I read it. Thanks for the link. Still doubting it. Even if they don't use the trinity model as a basis for class design, the trinity model will exist within the game; the players will put it there - and then people will complain about how X class's build negates the need for Y class's build - thus forcing Y class into one particular career route in order to be taken seriously in the endgame.

Seriously, I'm excited about this game; I want to play it. But this is a natural issue within a class-based system and it will remain so till skill-based games suddenly become the rage of MMO development. Which might never happen.

 

[Shrennin]

I read it. Thanks for the link. Still doubting it. Even if they don't use the trinity model as a basis for class design, the trinity model will exist within the game; the players will put it there - and then people will complain about how X class's build negates the need for Y class's build - thus forcing Y class into one particular career route in order to be taken seriously in the endgame.

That's a very good point (players putting the trinity in there by force) - it remains to be seen if any developer will be able to put balance into a class based system, I personally hope BioWare is able to do it but the doubt is there.

Seriously, I'm excited about this game; I want to play it. But this is a natural issue within a class-based system and it will remain so till skill-based games suddenly become the rage of MMO development. Which might never happen.

Yea, I would be more for a skill based system if I were better at using a keyboard and mouse for control (although there are remedies for that - a mic + controller combo is one). It would be interesting if it would be possible to have a class based system for PvE and a skill based system for PvP - I don't think that's possible but if it was then it might be acceptable to the masses.

If the latency and PC issues could be dealt with then a true skill based system would probably be more acceptable (I still don't think it would be totally acceptable, but at least more so than now).

 

[BattleMonkey]

As did Mythic. Doesn't mean it worked. And neither will this. One reason why I hate that MMOs are virtually all class-based rather than skill-based now is because it leads to stupid arguments between players about this mythical 'balance' they all so desperately want (only really don't).

Oh well. We'll see how Bioware does. I'm not expecting miracles though. If they at least get PvE right, I'm happy. PvP is allowed to suck in MMOs, unless it's absolutely vital to one's experience with the game (see WAR and EVE, for alternating examples).

Skill based instead of class based wouldn't change anything. Problem that arises instead is that players then just bitch about the skills not being balanced and you get the power players who just learn what are the best skill combinations and such to take. I've never seen any rpg/mmo really get it fully right where everyone is happy, always someone to bitch about balance, especially when it comes to pvp.

 

[Vinci]

Skill based instead of class based wouldn't change anything. Problem that arises instead is that players then just bitch about the skills not being balanced and you get the power players who just learn what are the best skill combinations and such to take. I've never seen any rpg/mmo really get it fully right where everyone is happy, always someone to bitch about balance, especially when it comes to pvp.

I would argue that people take it far less personal when developers nerf skills rather than nerfing a class. Yeah, people bitch about skills getting nerfed - but it's nowhere near the level when a class is nerfed or another buffed. Your whole way of life doesn't automatically turn to crap the moment a patch hits. Skill-based characters also tend to take less time to build up than class-based ones do, making the impact more of an annoyance than a prison term.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I would argue that people take it far less personal when developers nerf skills rather than nerfing a class. Yeah, people bitch about skills getting nerfed - but it's nowhere near the level when a class is nerfed or another buffed. Your whole way of life doesn't automatically turn to crap the moment a patch hits. Skill-based characters also tend to take less time to build up than class-based ones do, making the impact more of an annoyance than a prison term.

The problem with skill based instead of class, which is seen often in pen and paper rpgs who do away with ideas of roles/classes, is that shit gets cookie cutter. Give players too much freedom or choice and that they create a character based on skills or something similar, you just get syndrome of players all finding what is the best and they all just go in that direction. In turn many useful abilities/skills/talents/etc get left behind and not used since it's not competitive enough of a build.

Galaxies for example was really a skill based MMO and characters were not tossed into a set class, but it was a constant shift in pvp where everyone pretty much built characters the same. They nerf a skill, players just migrated to the new flavor of the month. So many skills became useless and no one would play them since everyone had to keep up with pvp efficiency.

 

[Vinci]

The problem with skill based instead of class, which is seen often in pen and paper rpgs who do away with ideas of roles/classes, is that shit gets cookie cutter. Give players too much freedom or choice and that they create a character based on skills or something similar, you just get syndrome of players all finding what is the best and they all just go in that direction. In turn many useful abilities/skills/talents/etc get left behind and not used since it's not competitive enough of a build.

This contradicts the rest of your post. If it's 'not competitive,' it's not 'useful.' In other words, the designers created the game without allowing for numerous factors in PvP situations - thus streamlining the experience down to where only a select group of skills are actually worthwhile.

Look at EVE. How you fight is varied and complex. There's no Win button, no one setup that works better than any other. There are particular tastes, but nothing that everyone devotes their characters to.

 

[border]

PVE balance means what now?

PVE balance mean both factions have an equal ability in raid encounters. Which is to say that the tanks of Faction A aren't any better than the tanks of Faction B, or that Faction B doesn't have any necesasry buffs that aren't available to Faction B's classes. Stuff like that.

Balance is achieved either by homogenizing classes (Mages in Faction A are roughly the same as the Arcanists of Faction B), or by giving both factions the same classes.

For comparison, vanilla WoW only gave 1 exclusive class to each faction and it still created problems in encounter design. The only way to solve the problem was to give both factions access to both classes in an expansion pack. SWTOR looks like it will be giving each faction many exclusive classes.

 

[Shrennin]

PVE balance mean both factions have an equal ability in raid encounters. Which is to say that the tanks of Faction A aren't any better than the tanks of Faction B, or that Faction B doesn't have any necesasry buffs that aren't available to Faction B's classes. Stuff like that.

Balance is achieved either by homogenizing classes (Mages in Faction A are roughly the same as the Arcanists of Faction B), or by giving both factions the same classes.

For comparison, vanilla WoW only gave 1 exclusive class to each faction and it still created problems in encounter design. The only way to solve the problem was to give both factions access to both classes in an expansion pack. SWTOR looks like it will be giving each faction many exclusive classes.

I heavily suggest reading this article on BioWare's potential method for class creation:

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/29/the-guiding-principle-of-darth-haters-swtor-speculation/

While it may not explain away all doubt about PvP problems, the PvE shouldn't be a problem at all. As far as I know, there also hasn't been an MMO where every class is designed to take on 3 or more enemies at once either (in fact, I hear people saying a TOR class is overpowered every time one is revealed - it may be true when TOR classes are compared to other MMO classes, but they all seem to be about the same power level when compared together).

TOR may not be innovating on class combat mechanics (click and play dynamic), but TOR is innovating on class design. It's just not yet determined whether or not that will be a successful innovation or whether or not it will be an example for other developers on what not to do. Time will only be able to tell.

 

[border]

The things that create imbalance are not really a general "power level" of each class, but specific spells and abilities. The more you make each class unique, the more you run the danger that some of their most unique abilities won't tilt things more in their favor. In WoW the problem wasn't that one exclusive class was out-and-out more powerful than another, just that one was far more useful and could buff an entire raid whereas its opposite-faction corollary class had some more powerful buffs, they could only be applied to a 5-person sub-party of a raid.

 

[Blackface]

op updated with new Planet.

 

[Shrennin]

The things that create imbalance are not really a general "power level" of each class, but specific spells and abilities. The more you make each class unique, the more you run the danger that some of their most unique abilities won't tilt things more in their favor. In WoW the problem wasn't that one exclusive class was out-and-out more powerful than another, just that one was far more useful and could buff an entire raid whereas its opposite-faction corollary class had some more powerful buffs, they could only be applied to a 5-person sub-party of a raid.

The point is that each class can stand on its own and doesn't need another class to help it. In WoW I noticed that a Warrior is usually weak in PvP unless he has a healer, the Paladin doesn't have that problem, for example. Same applies in PvE, no class will essentially rely on another (of course that doesn't mean classes can't supplement the other and that certain classes have advantages or disadvantages against other classes).

We'll see how TOR succeeds or fails at this, but I wouldn't look to WoW as an example of this type of class design failing. The problem with WoW is that it wasn't built for that type of class design (the Paladin made the Shaman a joke and those were originally the only two exclusive classes, which greatly imbalanced PvP between the factions).

 

[Vlodril]

I wish mmo's would go back to ultima style skills instead of the wow classes style. And most obviously havent played eve (it has a lot of probs but balance isnt one of them). It is possible the problem is that most devs dont want to put the effort.

 

[water_wendi]

I wish mmo's would go back to ultima style skills instead of the wow classes style. And most obviously havent played eve (it has a lot of probs but balance isnt one of them). It is possible the problem is that most devs dont want to put the effort.

i wish more rpgs in general would do skill based characters vs class based.

 

[Blackface]

The point is that each class can stand on its own and doesn't need another class to help it. In WoW I noticed that a Warrior is usually weak in PvP unless he has a healer, the Paladin doesn't have that problem, for example. Same applies in PvE, no class will essentially rely on another (of course that doesn't mean classes can't supplement the other and that certain classes have advantages or disadvantages against other classes).

We'll see how TOR succeeds or fails at this, but I wouldn't look to WoW as an example of this type of class design failing. The problem with WoW is that it wasn't built for that type of class design (the Paladin in comparison to the Shaman was a joke and those were originally the only two exclusive classes).

You got a lot wrong with this, but I undetstand whaty you are trying to go for.

1. All classes in World of Warcraft can stand on their own. Paladins in PVP still need healers unless that PVP is playing random scrubs in BG's. It depends on the spec of the Paladin of course, but a Ret Paladin can be killed as quickly as a Warrior can if the person fighting him knows how to counter the class. Warriors are also far from weak in PVP, they are just not face roll easy like Paladins. A good warrior is a monster(him and his 5 million macro's)

2. You are correct the game isn't balanced based off one individual class playing by itself, but it doesn't mean certain classes lack the ability to. They USED to, back when the game launched, but that has changed.

3. Paladins were always 100 times better then Shaman were. It wasn't the other way around. Shaman totems sucked horrible, they used to be killed by AOE damage back in the BWL/MC days, they were bugged and may last only seconds, shaman healing was the worst in the game, shaman dps was the worst in the game, and they couldn't tank. They were broken, and Paladins along with fear warding dwarf priests gave Alliance a massive advantage.

This is the type of problems SWTOR is going to run into. Having exclusive classes for each faction is going to make the game unbalanced for at least the first year. I have full confidence in Bioware, but they aren't Blizzard and it took Blizzard multiple years to get any semblance of balance on their game.

The fact is the classes won't be balanced unless they are direct mirrors of each other with different names. No game has ever done it before, and Bioware won't be the first company to do it. They can't even balance a handful of classes in the single player games they make. Let alone a massive RPG with multiple exclusive classes for each faction.

People experience with MMO's are fantastic at finding ways to break them. After all the testing and beta testing that goes on, people still find ways to exploit unbalanced mechanics to their advantage. Like all MMO's, this will happen, and happen quickly on SWTOR.

I think one of the dumbest things Bioware has chosen to do with this game is make all the classes exclusive to a specific faction. They should have made them exclusive at first, but as the story progressed given the person the ability to change factions. You may need to change the name from "Sith Warrior" To "Jedi [insert something that fits here]", but at least it would help balance the factions. Then they could spend time balancing the individual classes without rushing fixes out because one side is more power then the other and is now dominating PVP in the galaxy.

-------------------

Now on a different topic, I am going to start including information from Darth Hater in the OP and redo things a bit.

 

[BigAT]

3. Paladins were always 100 times better then Shaman were. It wasn't the other way around. Shaman totems sucked horrible, they used to be killed by AOE damage back in the BWL/MC days, they were bugged and may last only seconds, shaman healing was the worst in the game, shaman dps was the worst in the game, and they couldn't tank. They were broken, and Paladins along with fear warding dwarf priests gave Alliance a massive advantage.

Oh god, this was so ridiculously true. It was painful to be a Horde guild going after world firsts in MC/BWL and seeing that every fight was clearly tuned with Alliance in mind. Blessings were better than totems in every way possible and anyone that believes that tremor totem was an equivalent to fear ward has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Shrennin]

You got a lot wrong with this, but I undetstand whaty you are trying to go for.

Well, at least you can see where I'm going, because I worded something wrong in my original post, but I'll mention it when you respond to it. I'm going to edit the original so no one else gets the wrong idea based on my horrible wording.

1. All classes in World of Warcraft can stand on their own. Paladins in PVP still need healers unless that PVP is playing random scrubs in BG's. It depends on the spec of the Paladin of course, but a Ret Paladin can be killed as quickly as a Warrior can if the person fighting him knows how to counter the class. Warriors are also far from weak in PVP, they are just not face roll easy like Paladins. A good warrior is a monster(him and his 5 million macro's)

I still don't think the Warrior is nearly as good as a Paladin - or for that matter, we could do the Mage and Warlock comparison if you like. Of course, another problem I have is the ability to give lower level alts overpowered weapons and armor, which greatly imbalances lower level PvP - but that's another issue altogether.

2. You are correct the game isn't balanced based off one individual class playing by itself, but it doesn't mean certain classes lack the ability to. They USED to, back when the game launched, but that has changed.

And changed for the worse, I might add.

3. Paladins were always 100 times better then Shaman were. It wasn't the other way around. Shaman totems sucked horrible, they used to be killed by AOE damage back in the BWL/MC days, they were bugged and may last only seconds, shaman healing was the worst in the game, shaman dps was the worst in the game, and they couldn't tank. They were broken, and Paladins along with fear warding dwarf priests gave Alliance a massive advantage.

Actually, I meant that Paladins made Shamans a joke - I worded that horribly wrong. Paladins were obviously better than Shamans.

This is the type of problems SWTOR is going to run into. Having exclusive classes for each faction is going to make the game unbalanced for at least the first year. I have full confidence in Bioware, but they aren't Blizzard and it took Blizzard multiple years to get any semblance of balance on their game.

The fact is the classes won't be balanced unless they are direct mirrors of each other with different names. No game has ever done it before, and Bioware won't be the first company to do it. They can't even balance a handful of classes in the single player games they make. Let alone a massive RPG with multiple exclusive classes for each faction.

People experience with MMO's are fantastic at finding ways to break them. After all the testing and beta testing that goes on, people still find ways to exploit unbalanced mechanics to their advantage. Like all MMO's, this will happen, and happen quickly on SWTOR.

While I realize that it's going to be extremely unlikely for classes to be balanced in TOR (every MMO virtually has this problem at launch and I still think few have even solved it years after they launch), I think Blizzard's problem was that they, unlike BioWare, didn't go full exclusive classes. If they didn't go with that mindset into their class design, then the exclusive classes were obviously going to show imbalance. Another problem is the trinity model - a pure tank, dps, or healer class will either be much weaker or much stronger than a class that mixes tank/dps/healer together in different forms.

I think one of the dumbest things Bioware has chosen to do with this game is make all the classes exclusive to a specific faction. They should have made them exclusive at first, but as the story progressed given the person the ability to change factions. You may need to change the name from "Sith Warrior" To "Jedi [insert something that fits here]", but at least it would help balance the factions. Then they could spend time balancing the individual classes without rushing fixes out because one side is more power then the other and is now dominating PVP in the galaxy.

They have actually commented on this - there is most likely going to come a time when one will be able to go to another faction (thus bringing in other classes that were previously exclusive to the opposing faction). BioWare's first focus is to get the story right for the classes and then to develop them further with expansions (whether that means classes will have the option to switch factions, or to continue on the path that they chose with in the original game).

Now on a different topic, I am going to start including information from Darth Hater in the OP and redo things a bit.

Darth Hater is a really good site that gives evidence behind their thinking so that's a good thing. Can't wait to see the redone OP!

 

[Blackface]

op updated a bit. As more information is unveiled I will be removing some sections such as reviews and previews and adding in more concrete information about the game. Sections such as how customization works, how space combat works, economy etc.. I will also put up some new graphics for each section and make it look nicer. However, we are a long way off from launch so this thread is a "wait and see" until at least beta hits. Then i will organize it more, and flesh it out.

 

[Shrennin]

op updated a bit. As more information is unveiled I will be removing some sections such as reviews and previews and adding in more concrete information about the game. Sections such as how customization works, how space combat works, economy etc.. I will also put up some new graphics for each section and make it look nicer. However, we are a long way off from launch so this thread is a "wait and see" until at least beta hits. Then i will organize it more, and flesh it out.

Good to hear and nice redone OP - I like the easy to access links and for some reason most forums don't allow for pictures so the concept art/in game screen shots are a lot easier to get to than other sources.

Also, are beards confirmed customization? There is actually a topic about this on the TOR forums, but I'm bringing the screenshot over here:

Since this is a good find, I'm going to give credit where it's due and thank DarthAgonny over at the SW:TOR official forums.

http://swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=108886

It actually looks pretty decent, I was thinking of giving my character a beard as well but there's no substance behind that being a player character or not (although it would be incredibly stupid if NPCs could have certain appearances or features that players couldn't add to their characters).

 

[water_wendi]

The Paladin > Shaman early day stuff must have only applied to PvE cause i dont remember it being like that with PVP. i remember i had a Paladin i leveled up a little and after that change to SotC from like 2005.. wow :lol

Anyway.. before DA i would have said i have faith in Bioware at least balancing stuff out. Now though, im not so sure. Every one of Biowares homemade systems is pretty broken.. when one of these makes it to multiplayer setting shits going to get crazy. im still looking forward to this game.. its just that i used DA class mechanics to gauge how far theyve come and its not looking good.

 

[Blackface]

Good to hear and nice redone OP - I like the easy to access links and for some reason most forums don't allow for pictures so the concept art/in game screen shots are a lot easier to get to than other sources.

Also, are beards confirmed customization? There is actually a topic about this on the TOR forums, but I'm bringing the screenshot over here:

Since this is a good find, I'm going to give credit where it's due and thank DarthAgonny over at the SW:TOR official forums.

http://swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=108886

It actually looks pretty decent, I was thinking of giving my character a beard as well but there's no substance behind that being a player character or not (although it would be incredibly stupid if NPCs could have certain appearances or features that players couldn't add to their characters).

Nobody knows much about customization. There is some information up on DarthHater that also shows tattoo's. I am assuming you will be able to customize the hell out of your toon. It would only make sense.

I doubt they want everyone running around looking like a 19 year old angsty teen. They talked a lot about wanting people to really customize their toon in every way possible.

The OP right now is more just a "Here is a lot of information about the game, read about it, post in the thread and lets wait and see" right now. When we know more about all the different areas of the game, I will turn the OP more into a manual for new players. So they can hop in and find out every detail about classes, factions, planets, cities on planets, the games economy, space combat and everything else.

 

[Shrennin]

The Paladin > Shaman early day stuff must have only applied to PvE cause i dont remember it being like that with PVP. i remember i had a Paladin i leveled up a little and after that change to SotC from like 2005.. wow :lol

Anyway.. before DA i would have said i have faith in Bioware at least balancing stuff out. Now though, im not so sure. Every one of Biowares homemade systems is pretty broken.. when one of these makes it to multiplayer setting shits going to get crazy. im still looking forward to this game.. its just that i used DA class mechanics to gauge how far theyve come and its not looking good.

Before DA, I still wouldn't think BioWare would be the one to balance classes out. If they pull it off, it will be a major victory for them but there's a lot going against them (although I personally like the exclusive faction classes).

With that said, BioWare did hire MMO veterans to help them develop the game so maybe they can get some guidance with them (there are people at BioWare Austin that have worked on games like Shadowbane, SWG, etc.).

 

[water_wendi]

Before DA, I still wouldn't think BioWare would be the one to balance classes out. If they pull it off, it will be a major victory for them but there's a lot going against them (although I personally like the exclusive faction classes).

With that said, BioWare did hire MMO veterans to help them develop the game so maybe they can get some guidance with them (there are people at BioWare Austin that have worked on games like Shadowbane, SWG, etc.).

i should have said "i had faith Bioware had learned something from JE and ME."

 

[Blackface]

The Paladin > Shaman early day stuff must have only applied to PvE cause i dont remember it being like that with PVP. i remember i had a Paladin i leveled up a little and after that change to SotC from like 2005.. wow :lol

Anyway.. before DA i would have said i have faith in Bioware at least balancing stuff out. Now though, im not so sure. Every one of Biowares homemade systems is pretty broken.. when one of these makes it to multiplayer setting shits going to get crazy. im still looking forward to this game.. its just that i used DA class mechanics to gauge how far theyve come and its not looking good.

They are using completely different mechanics for this game. From the way combat functions to the way all the numbers are generated. Think of it more along the lines of WoW.

 

[water_wendi]

They are using completely different mechanics for this game. From the way combat functions to the way all the numbers are generated. Think of it more along the lines of WoW.

im sorry if my post isnt clear. i know the gameplay is going to be totally different. The thing is, every time Bioware uses gameplay mechanics that theyve thought up vs using an established ruleset (D20, AD&D), it has been broken. i was hoping that the long dev time of DA would somehow break this cycle of theirs but it looks like im now going to hoping TOR will do that.

 

[Shrennin]

i should have said "i had faith Bioware had learned something from JE and ME."

Well, not every development team is the same. I believe James Ohlen's last game was KotOR (he was the lead designer) and now he's the lead designer on TOR. Before that he worked on the Baldur's Gate series and the original Neverwinter Nights.

He's the best BioWare's got and he hasn't created a bad game yet, have no reason he will anytime soon. He may make a difference with the class design because we haven't really seen his work since KotOR.

 

[water_wendi]

Well, not every development team is the same. I believe James Ohlen's last game was KotOR (he was the lead designer) and now he's the lead designer on TOR. Before that he worked on the Baldur's Gate series and the original Neverwinter Nights.

He's the best BioWare's got and he hasn't created a bad game yet, have no reason he will anytime soon. He may make a difference with the class design because we haven't really seen his work since KotOR.

He was lead design on DA along with Knowles and Laidlaw.

 

[Blackface]

im sorry if my post isnt clear. i know the gameplay is going to be totally different. The thing is, every time Bioware uses gameplay mechanics that theyve thought up vs using an established ruleset (D20, AD&D), it has been broken. i was hoping that the long dev time of DA would somehow break this cycle of theirs but it looks like im now going to hoping TOR will do that.

I wouldn't be surprised if they completely ripped of World of Warcrafts system and implements their own stats and a few modifications.

I am already a bit worried because in the brief video where they showed PVP, none of the abilities had cooldowns. So unless they have a complicated diminishing returns system balance is already a problem :lol

 

[LAUGHTREY]

I wouldn't be surprised if they completely ripped of World of Warcrafts system and implements their own stats and a few modifications.

I am already a bit worried because in the brief video where they showed PVP, none of the abilities had cooldowns. So unless they have a complicated diminishing returns system balance is already a problem :lol

Or it's the alpha and things change dramatically over the course of a few days and you shouldn't worry at all because it's bioware and they have a pretty good track record.

 

[Shrennin]

He was lead design on DA along with Knowles and Laidlaw.

Are you sure he was lead designer? I literally can't find anything about it. I'm sure the Dragon Age credits probably has the info, I just didn't see him promote the game.

Every interview I came across was a TOR interview (and I may have seen an old KotOR interview in my search as well) - although he is credited with NWN, BG, KotOR (1 and 2), JE, and DA.

As far as worrying about cool downs - I'm pretty sure they are confirmed to be there but a single attack/power will last as long as the global cool down (or maybe just the general attack) - Another way to word it is that there is no auto attack but each attack lasts as long as the global cool down. Don't worry about pre-set animations getting in the way when characters die, though - when a character dies, the animation will stop as soon as that character's HP is at 0.