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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]

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Blackface

Banned
LAUGHTREY said:
Or it's the alpha and things change dramatically over the course of a few days and you shouldn't worry at all because it's bioware and they have a pretty good track record.

It is Alpha and they will probably add cooldowns and flesh out combat. You are right things do change, and if you look at some of the first videos compared to the latest, animations, UI, abilities have all changed.

That being said, no Bioware doesn't have a good track record. They have no track record in the MMO space whatsoever. If this was a single player RPG I wouldn't be worried. They have a great track record for those. Even so, most Bioware games have average combat at best.

But, I have faith in the team they put together. Otherwise I wouldn't have made this thread or be paying much attention to this game. They have also said all the right things about combat for me. From the pace to how it's set up. It all comes down to balance.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Yea he was a lead designer. At least according to the manual.

25as109.jpg
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Number 2 said:
Yea he was a lead designer. At least according to the manual.

Well, that does prove it. It's just really weird that I didn't see him promote the game (I know I've seen Laidlaw doing it, not sure about Knowles but couldn't find any promotions by Ohlen). It kind of made me think that maybe Ohlen isn't a very public figure, kind of like Jason Jones, but then I saw him promoting other games (like TOR).

Anyway, DA's balance wasn't good and it was noticeable (which is bad, considering a single-player game's balance shouldn't matter that much) - the main problem was that magic>all. Hopefully that wasn't Ohlen's doing.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Blackface said:
It is Alpha and they will probably add cooldowns and flesh out combat. You are right things do change, and if you look at some of the first videos compared to the latest, animations, UI, abilities have all changed.

I'm not sure if you saw my post but there are confirmed cool downs. All I saw on the matter was that attacks would last as long as the "global cooldown" although I'm not sure if the information I read was talking about the basic attack, or if it was talking about any attack that you cut on or cut off based on choosing other powers. I'll find the information that mentions it if you like (I believe it's on Darth Hater in their December Extravaganza information) but I'll post a direct link when I find it.

EDIT: Here's where I thought they mentioned it but they didn't - I'll try to find the source where I saw it - it may have been the Inquisitor info because I was reading about the Inquisitor recently.

For those who did not see this information, I'm going to post it anyway because it contains some pretty good general info:

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/03/general-information-learned/

Double EDIT: Aha! I found it:

DarthHater said:
The first thing we noticed while playing the Inquisitor was the uncomfortable sensation of not having an auto attack. Instead we were supplied with “Saber Strike,” a multi-hit attack that causes damage and regenerates force points. It should be noted that “Saber Strike” is different from attacks in Age of Conan or Diablo, where a single button press results in a single attack. Hitting the hotkey, or clicking the right mouse button on a target, results in multiple hits that span the length of the global cooldown.

Source: http://darthhater.com/2009/12/03/the-sith-inquisitor/

Triple EDIT:

Reading it again, it seems that one attack activates a cool down for ALL of your abilities, and once that cool down is done, you can press another attack (either the same ability or another ability) - the good news is that ability will last that entire cool down and the cool down is probably not that long.

That being said, no Bioware doesn't have a good track record. They have no track record in the MMO space whatsoever. If this was a single player RPG I wouldn't be worried. They have a great track record for those. Even so, most Bioware games have average combat at best.

This....may sound weird but that's what actually gives me a lot of hope for this game. I think MMOs need a fresh perspective, and I think that's going to come from a developer who has worked on console games and can bring something different to the genre. What worries me is that they have no online experience (unlike Blizzard) but hopefully, as you said, the team they put together have some experience between members brought in from other development studios.

EDIT: Eh, I double posted by accident. If a mod wants to either delete this post or merge this post with my first one then that would be nice. Otherwise, I guess it'll stay where it is.
 

Blackface

Banned
Shrinnan said:
I'm not sure if you saw my post but there are confirmed cool downs. All I saw on the matter was that attacks would last as long as the "global cooldown" although I'm not sure if the information I read was talking about the basic attack, or if it was talking about any attack that you cut on or cut off based on choosing other powers. I'll find the information that mentions it if you like (I believe it's on Darth Hater in their December Extravaganza information) but I'll post a direct link when I find it.

EDIT: Here's where I thought they mentioned it but they didn't - I'll try to find the source where I saw it - it may have been the Inquisitor info because I was reading about the Inquisitor recently.

For those who did not see this information, I'm going to post it anyway because it contains some pretty good general info:

http://darthhater.com/2009/12/03/general-information-learned/

Double EDIT: Aha! I found it:



Source: http://darthhater.com/2009/12/03/the-sith-inquisitor/

Triple EDIT:

Reading it again, it seems that one attack activates a cool down for ALL of your abilities, and once that cool down is done, you can press another attack (either the same ability or another ability) - the good news is that ability will last that entire cool down and the cool down is probably not that long.



This....may sound weird but that's what actually gives me a lot of hope for this game. I think MMOs need a fresh perspective, and I think that's going to come from a developer who has worked on console games and can bring something different to the genre. What worries me is that they have no online experience (unlike Blizzard) but hopefully, as you said, the team they put together have some experience between members brought in from other development studios.

EDIT: Eh, I double posted by accident. If a mod wants to either delete this post or merge this post with my first one then that would be nice. Otherwise, I guess it'll stay where it is.

I am not talking about a global cooldown. I am talking about seperate cool-downs for your snares, movement impairing effects and stronger abilities(think Frost Nova, Iceblock, Pally bubbles, mortal strike etc). Global cooldown is a given.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Blackface said:
I am not talking about a global cooldown. I am talking about seperate cool-downs for your snares, movement impairing effects and stronger abilities(think Frost Nova, Iceblock, Pally bubbles, mortal strike etc). Global cooldown is a given.

Separate cooldowns haven't been confirmed then and are apparently not implemented into the game at this point - I've played MMOs, but what exactly is a global cooldown? A cooldown that locks all of your abilities until it ends? Separate cooldowns would be cooldowns that either last longer or shorter than the overall global cooldown?

That makes a lot more sense on how WoW works - a global cooldown would essentially prevent two abilities or attacks from being activated at the same time while a separate cooldown would prevent more powerful attacks from being abused.

For some reason, I was thinking global cooldowns and separate cooldowns were used separately and not together. Now I see why that doesn't make sense (at least global cooldowns would have to be utilized).

I do know that the Sith Warrior has a rage meter that probably dictates what attacks can be used given the amount of rage (so we probably won't see separate cooldowns for that class).
 
Man if that's accurate I think they've shown the game way too early. I thought a late 2010 release would be the latest they'd go considering the amount of info they've been giving out recently.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Stormwatch said:
Kotaku has some release date news. Looks like they are aiming for Spring 2011 :(

http://kotaku.com/5445820/star-wars-the-old-republic-heading-for-a-spring-2011-launch

It's possible that he was talking about fiscal 2011 (which starts at or around October 2010) - either way, if it does come out in 2011, then the game is going to be extremely polished. It already looks like it could come soon (I mean, most thought it looked ready for 2010).

My opinion is that if it comes in 2010, great. If it comes in 2011, great as well because it'll have extra time for polish although I won't get to play it as soon.
 
randomlyrossy said:
Man if that's accurate I think they've shown the game way too early. I thought a late 2010 release would be the latest they'd go considering the amount of info they've been giving out recently.

Seeing how they have provided very little info on the game itself, I wouldn't be surprised that it's far off with a whole lot still not determined. The details given have all been very vague with nothing more than class descriptions and animation/visuals.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
It should also be noted that it's very possible that this isn't even TOR - remember, LucasArts is the publisher of TOR, oddly enough EA is the developer (BioWare).
 

Kosma

Banned
I dont think they started to show it off to early, I was following WoW for years before it came out. Delaying it is a good sign imho.

Im so curious about this game its crazy. Havent had that in a long time. Especially what there is to do once you finished your classes story arc and how heavy the game is on grouping along the way. Just the whole structure of play really.
 

Spire

Subconscious Brolonging
They didn't announce it that early. Do you have any idea how long I was following MEO (which turned into LotRO)? Nine fucking years. Waiting two for the release of TOR ain't no thang.
 

Won

Member
LAUGHTREY said:
Releasing a few months after Cataclysm.

Is that such a good idea?

Better than releasing a few weeks before a new WoW expansion and you have to realease the thing at some point.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I'm just wondering how much polish and content is going to be in this potential beast of a game.

One of the major advantages of the HeroEngine is that it allows developers to release MMOs in half the amount of time it would normally take developers to release MMOs with other engines.

This gives a bit of credence to the 16 planet theory (8 planets have been announced so far with nothing implying that we are near the end of planet announcements) and we already know a good deal about the game considering how long the game still has to go.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
X-Play is going to have something regarding SWTOR at GDC at 6:30pm EST (although I hesitate to say that they are going to show the demo shown at GDC because I don't want to get my hopes up).

Anyway, Darth Hater did really nice coverage of TOR at GDC, one interesting bit of their impessions:

Questing in a Large Open World

The first thing we did was pick up a mission from a NPC in the open world. There wasn't a typical pop up quest dialog box to accept or decline it after interacting with an NPC; as soon as you clicked on them, the voiceover dialog started in the fashion of a cinematic cut scene. Once the conversation moved to our character, the familiar decision wheel was there with very distinct Light, Gray, and Dark options. You could hit the space bar and skip through the dialog until you hit the decision wheel.

We could see other players running around in the zone after picking up the quest, causing us to wonder what exactly happened to our Trooper's body while in the cinematic. However we were unable to answer that question during our time with the demo. It is possible we started in a phased area, but there wasn't any instance portals or something else to indicate that we were in a phased area. It was completely seamless.

[n]Now that we had our quest, we hit the map icon on the minimap to get an idea of how big of an area we were going to explore on Ord Mantell. We were pleasantly surprised to see that there were indications of more than one zone on the map. Additionally, there were multiple drop down menus, that were unfortunately not active, giving us the sense that there are definitely more map iterations.

When we later spoke to Jake Neri of LucasArts about this, he told us "Yeah, but that (Ord Mantell) is one of the origin planets and it won't be as big as where you will go. I think it is safe to say that there will be different sizes of territories. Not everything is like, 'Here is your grid, fill it out, and go.' It is different."

To give an idea of the vast amounts of explorable area, I saw what I thought was a sea or large body of water in the distance. Wondering if it was possible to swim or hit an invisible wall, I started out walking towards it. It took about a minute of walking at normal pace to get close to the edge only to realize it was a landscape resembling a dry sea bed with very detailed ground design littered with pits, craters, and small pebbles. This stretched out to the horizon, didn't resemble a typical matte placeholder, as I definitely got the feeling I could walk a few more minutes further. After spending another entire minute running back to the Mannett Point base, Jake Neri's statement about Ord Mantell as one of the smaller maps gave the impression that The Old Republic will be simply massive in scope.[/b]

As we started exploring the immediate zone we were in, we noticed there were a lot of NPCs who were not exactly thrilled we were there. The feeling of being in a conflicted and hostile area was immediate.

"Ord Mantell is not a happy place," Jake Neri explained. "There is conflict there, but it is also an early world. One of the goals there is 'Hey, people that haven't played an MMO need to be successful there.' So we are constantly balancing those planets. I don"t know if you guys were aware, but those planets are getting a lot of iteration. We did open up and start to do some testing. We are doing small groups, we are looking to expand that in the near future, and those origin planets are really a focus. We really want to make sure that they are good so we can extend into the larger game as we go."

Our mission took us to a large structure on Ord Mantell. We did go through a green instance portal at a point inside the multi-level building (there was an elevator we had to use to navigate between floors) but it felt extremely seamless and natural to do so. It was incorporated into the building, and there wasn't a loading screen. It wasn't blatantly obvious or gave us that "whoa, you are going into an instance" type feeling.

One of the biggest takeaways from this was that the whole quest/mission wasn't some "go kill x of y" or "collect things" quest. We weren't actively grinding mobs for this particular one, and we were definitely making decisions to affect the mission story. As we were fighting our way to around the building, a Separatist Base, a bonus quest popped up on our on-screen quest tracker. This new mission noted we killed 1 of 8 of a specific mob type, and a new quest showed up in our mission log. This "instant quest" felt very similar to Warhammer's Tome of Knowledge feature.

Source: http://darthhater.com/2010/03/15/gdc-trooper-hands-on-tor-game-play-impressions/page/1

I just posted what everyone probably wanted reassurance on - the size of the worlds. They are apparently going to be huge. I heavily suggest reading the entirety of Hater's impressions (along with their interview).

There are also some other juicy tidbits from other journalists that I don't have the sources to right now (I know Gamespot, actually, commented on the fact that TOR seems to have player generated hunting quests - if a player likes to hunt a particular enemy than quests will generate around hunting those enemies along with other journalists implying that players may be able to craft their own armor and that the space experience "is in the works.").

Also, for those that are not as up to date: Taris was also announced as a playable planet along with Belsavis (a prison planet).
 

dsister44

Member
the trooper seems a really fun class to play, very run and gun. i have to say tho that the inquisitor is my fvaourite class so far, how about you guys?
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
dsister44 said:
the trooper seems a really fun class to play, very run and gun. i have to say tho that the inquisitor is my fvaourite class so far, how about you guys?

I was going to play the Inquisitor, but now I'm looking at the Imperial Agent or perhaps the Bounty Hunter.

I love CIA or Western type stories and those classes scream it.
 

ThatGuy

Member
Beta comes nearer. There is a countdown on the Bioware websites which could lead to a SW:ToR Beta start date announcement and if not the Beta should launch soon. Because there is a new micro site:

launch.swtor.com

and when I login I see this :D :

loginap.jpg
 

IcedTea

Member
Shrinnan said:
I was going to play the Inquisitor, but now I'm looking at the Imperial Agent or perhaps the Bounty Hunter.

I love CIA or Western type stories and those classes scream it.
The three you mentioned I'm pretty into myself. The only Republic class I could see myself playing would be Smuggler, though I'll probably check out the Jedi Knight too just because Drew Karpyshyn is writing it.
 

gillty

Banned
This game is looking less and less appealing, I'm going to have to join the make KOTOR 3 or GTFO club.

Other than the bioware conversation system everything is feeling so WoW (which I'm so burned out on) with a Star Wars skin. The environments specifically the brief glimpse seen of Tatooine? at the end of that video looks so MEH, SWG's tatooine looks better.
 

EDarkness

Member
Hmmm...unless I am mistaken, they said something about no canned combat animations, but seems to me like there were a ton of them in that video. Not saying it's gonna stop me from trying the game out, but it doesn't look as impressive as they were talking it up. Doesn't seems to have a good flow to it at all.
 

Deadly

Member
The senior game designer, William Wallace, looks freaking young. They should show how large scale combat should be instead.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
EDarkness said:
Hmmm...unless I am mistaken, they said something about no canned combat animations, but seems to me like there were a ton of them in that video. Not saying it's gonna stop me from trying the game out, but it doesn't look as impressive as they were talking it up. Doesn't seems to have a good flow to it at all.

They meant no canned animations in the sense that the attacks and blocks (like lightsaber combat) wasn't canned. The attack abilities are obviously going to have relatively the same animation each time you use it but it was obvious that the lightsaber combat (at least) was definitely not canned.

I think the game looks amazing so far, especially when you consider that it still has a year left to go in development.

The difference between this combat and WoW combat isn't necessarily in the combat mechanics (they are relatively the same because it tends to work for an MMO setting) but rather how many enemies each game lets you fight. TOR's combat should resemble more of a "warlike" combat feel rather than the relatively few enemies you were able to take on at any given time in WoW.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
LegendofJoe said:
Any word on whether or not Bioware Austin is going to show the game off at e3?

Yup, an E3 appearance of TOR has already been confirmed. I think it's supposed to be huge (this time they should be showing the open worlds and other MMO type stuff that the game is going to have).
 

Vlodril

Member
I dont know why people are disappointed that looked great to me. What i would like to see is how exactly balanced it is and how cover works exactly , it seems strange when some people can use it and others not but we ll see.
 

TimeKillr

Member
Looks great?

What looks great?

The half-assed cartoon characters in a realistic world? The absolutely AWFUL animation? The "non-canned combat animations" that are obviously completely canned?

What about the very strange design notions they're bringing up? The "We want you to feel involved in the combat" stuff, that makes no good sense?

I'm really doubtful Bioware can pull this off. And with Mythic helping them, it can't be good (Warhammer Online was horrible, completely unbalanced and has TONS more problems).

Also, their weird idea that "The trinity doesn't really exist in TOR", the fact that they seem to focus on a very single-player experience, with cinematics (Age of Conan proved this is very difficult to implement), etc.

It doesn't add up. I'll try it, but I have next to zero expectations.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
New update (the updates are getting bigger and bigger every Friday):

The reveal of a dark lord of the Sith:

Darth Malgus:

http://swtor.com/news/news-article/20100430_001

He was the Sith Lord in the Deceived trailer and do you remember that Twi'lek? Yup, that's his wife.

Meet some Inhabitants of The Old Republic:

http://swtor.com/news/news-article/20100430_002

And some updated Biographies of various characters (including the Dark Sith Lord):

http://swtor.com/news/news-article/20100430_003

EDIT:

Note, Darth Malgus isn't the Emperor. He is (a) Dark Lord of the Sith and not (the) Dark Lord of the Sith like I actually originally thought. I didn't think they would have revealed the Emperor in a biography so I'm really glad the identity of the Emperor is still unknown (I think it would be kind of cool, as a Sith, to get missions from the Emperor through his Dark Council and not know who the Emperor actually is? It opens up story lines that could imply he doesn't exist, etc.).
 

CzarTim

Member
I jerked to that video. I wasn't planning on being a Bounty Hunter... but damn.

This is the first MMO where I wouldn't mind playing every class.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
czartim said:
This is the first MMO where I wouldn't mind playing every class.

Which is a testament to the game since the game is a Star Wars game and it has the obligatory Jedi/Sith classes.

I was actually planning on being a Sith Inquisitor but now I'm pretty sure I'll end up being an Imperial Agent on my first play through.
 
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