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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]
- Thread starter Blackface
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MisterAnderson
Member
Joe Shlabotnik said:
Lol
piratepwnsninja
Member
Blackface said:
I have, and I think you're overreacting.
You make all these assumptions based on what is currently a very small test case. And in this test case, we haven't even seen the situation you describe occur. You make statements as though they are fact, when in reality are anger driven "best" guesses.
Even your example breaks down...if the Scoundrel and Gunsliger, which are both ACs (which you yourself defined as being classes), offer a different style of play with different benefits within each, you are going to get people that trend toward the DPS and people that trend toward the CC. Style of play STILL has to be taken into account here. It's like you are automatically assuming that being able to change ACs automatically means that everyone will want to be a DPSer. That simply isn't the case.
Your WoW analogy is all over the place. If people play a certain way, and do it because they like to, then that fights directly against the arguments of the rampant AC switching you are making. I played a lock in WoW because I liked it. I also played a DK and a priest and a hunter, etc. Do lots of new players just want to do as much damage as possible? Sure. Do long time players figure out what works best for the groups they are taking? Absolutely. In every guild I have been a part of in WoW or otherwise, it wasn't about just taking the classes that had the top DPS output. It was the mixing of abilities and class utility that made the difference in raids. Which is why you brought a shadow priest instead of a mage sometimes. As long as these differences exist within the ACs in TOR, then your doomsday scenario isn't going to occur. If anything, it makes inviting someone into a raiding guild EASIER because MORE flexibility exists for them to fill multiple roles.
OK UPDATE:
I called Origin to cancel my Digital Deluxe cause I got a CE from Amazon. The lady this time was amazing and knew exactly how to remove the old key and give me a refund and let me apply my new key!
Thank you Lauren!
So depends on who answers if you can "upgrade" or switch keys I guess. Unless they just got a memo.
I called Origin to cancel my Digital Deluxe cause I got a CE from Amazon. The lady this time was amazing and knew exactly how to remove the old key and give me a refund and let me apply my new key!
Thank you Lauren!
So depends on who answers if you can "upgrade" or switch keys I guess. Unless they just got a memo.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Hmm.... I called yesterday and they said they'd forward the info.
I'll wait a day or so see if I get an email. But glad to hear that it CAN be done.
Any idea what the name of the person you talked to was?
Thanks!
I'll wait a day or so see if I get an email. But glad to hear that it CAN be done.
Any idea what the name of the person you talked to was?
Thanks!
piratepwnsninja said:
You are thinking from the perspective of a causal player. I am thinking from the perspective of a competitive one. The reason we have not seen what I say occur, is because you can't switch your advanced class in beta right now. There is also no end-game content of any kind in place. Be it end game PVP or operations.
My comparison with World of Warcraft stop after the class analogy. You are trying to compare the abilities. The reason guilds in World of Warcraft mix and match classes is because of the buff's those classes deliver. Make those buff's less unique, and you will have less need to bring the "weaker" of the classes. In SWTOR, the buff's are universal. Meaning if you have a Trooper tank, there is no reason to bring a Trooper DPS if that spec is not good. There is nothing that a DPS Trooper would bring to the table, that a Gunslinger DPS wouldn't. So if a Gunslinger's DPS spec is higher then a Trooper's DPS spec, why would you bring the trooper? They both fullfill a range DPS roll, and the Trooper buff can be given by one of their superior specs.
This was not how World of Warcraft worked. Each spec and class in WoW brought something unique to the table. Demo warlocks DPS increase was the ONLY reason they were brought to ICC in WOTLK. Once that was nerfed, they were literally never brought anymore when killing a boss made a difference. How many frost mages did you see clearing content since vanilla? Blizzard specifically designed WoW so that it gave incentives for guilds to bring along weaker classes and specs into a competitive environment. Since the DPS they lacked, was provided twice over by a buff they gave out. SWTOR is not like this or designed in this manner.
From a casual standpoint it's fine. You can hop between all your advanced classes, yanking gear for three to four different specs and two classes in flash points. But from an even semi-competitive standpoint it means there will be far less variety and no reason to bring half the specs or Advance classes in the game.
It also makes giving out loot harder for raids. Look at any competitive guild that has ever existed. While you are clearing content you won't let people hop into 100 different spec's. You don't gear out one person three times before everyone else in your raid gets gear. The notion that allowing you to change your class somehow helps this is flawed and has no basis. I wouldn't gear out a mage, just to have him switch to his hunter alt during the last fight of a raid. I wouldn't gear out a dual wield Gunslinger, just to have him switch to a dirty fighting scoundrel. If a Fire mage gave all the same buff's and advantages as a Warlock, but was significantly higher DPS, why would you bring a Warlock if that Warlock could change his class into a Mage?
LowParry
Member
I get what Blackface is saying. It makes sense. Though my only real concern is the viability of PvP with a PvE spec. I'm pretty sure, for example, in the Juggernaut tree, there's one of the three options there that are much better for pvp and an option suited for pve tanking in that sub tree of choices. Having that option to switch between the two would be nice. But unless I got more hands on time with it all, I can't really make a solid opinion.
B-Dex said:
I called them, they canceled my digital deluxe and it no longer shows up under my games on origin. Tried to put in my C.E early access code I got from amazon but it doesn't work. Now the guy is saying I have to make a new account? I told him all my EA games are on this account, now I am on hold... fuck.
got2bekidding
Member
planets and their lvl range/faction on alterswtor
Blackface said:
Making people invest heavily into classes that do not get balanced is a horrible way to design a game. I say that as a level 85 Warlock who has played the class for four years, having obtained many mounts, pets, and achievements. So in that sense, I "loved" my Warlock. However, since late Wrath, I had to put up with clunky game mechanics, an inability to effectively switch roles, horrible itemization, and unimaginative new spells. I loved the "idea" of the Affliction Warlock, but I kept paying Blizzard despite them failing for three expansions. At some point, I wanted to switch characters to a hybrid, but I had invested so much into my Warlock that I would rather not. Given the current WoW Warlock population, I guess others felt similarly.
Lesath said:
World of Warcraft is designed so that virtually all classes will fluctuate in DPS. One tier you may be top 3, the next you won't. The only classes that have really never went up or down since vanilla are Mages and Rogues. They are normally always at the top. Warlocks have always been good DPS, but rarely the "BEST". At the start of Cata, and end of WOTLK they were very good, and on some fights were insane.
You say you don't like the fact you are stuck in a class because you invested so much time in it. Then that class isn't balanced properly. You would like to switch to another class that was a bit better, but don't because of time investment.
Allowing you to change your Advanced Classes allows the developers to do EXACTLY what WoW did to Warlocks. Bioware no longer has to worry about balancing every advance class. So long as ONE Advanced class is balanced per Archetype. It allows Bioware to be lazy and say "Scoundral DPS is pretty bad right now, but Gunslinger dual Wield is great, so we can focus our efforts on something else for now". This is not how game design should be.
Allowing player not to respec to a different Advance Class would force Bioware into balancing the game. Now they just have an excuse to allow a huge number of specs to become irrelevant.
Another thing you need to understand, is Advance class have three tree's. Thety are like an entire class in WoW. One of those tree's is shared, the rest are unique. Each Advance Class has multiple specs, but have similar game play style. Bioware is no longer going to focus on that unique aspect of their class system. Instead they will not balance each Advance class properly. Why should they balance Scoundrel DPS, with Gunslinger DPS, when they can just turn scoundrel into a healing only advance class. And Gunslinger into a DPS only advance class.
This takes the equivalent of an ENTIRE class in World of Warcraft, and basically turns them into a "tree" in world of warcraft.
Bookmark this, write it down. I guarantee without any doubt this will happen.
LowParry
Member
Sense, Blackface makes.
Sidenote: Suppose to be another Q&A on the Bioware TV in about 10 mins.
http://www.bioware.com/biowaretv
Sidenote: Suppose to be another Q&A on the Bioware TV in about 10 mins.
http://www.bioware.com/biowaretv
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
So according to the Darth Hater live blog of todays Q&A session at Bioware Base there will be a least one PvP-Planet:
Source: http://darthhater.com/2011/07/22/sdcc-2011-day-2-live-blog-coverage/
I wonder if we can expect some unannounced PvP stuff. Maybe that's what the guys from Mythic were helping them with. Honestly, if they got a whole planet dedicated to PvP (maybe even more until launch) it is not going to be empty. There has to be some kind of open PvP incentive.
Source: http://darthhater.com/2011/07/22/sdcc-2011-day-2-live-blog-coverage/
I wonder if we can expect some unannounced PvP stuff. Maybe that's what the guys from Mythic were helping them with. Honestly, if they got a whole planet dedicated to PvP (maybe even more until launch) it is not going to be empty. There has to be some kind of open PvP incentive.
Someone had asked about pre-ordering Retail. Pretty painless at Gamestop (yeah, I know). They wanted $5 for the Standard Edition pre-order, and $60 (I believe) for the CE version. I plunked down $20 for the standard edition. Receipt showed my code to input on the SWTOR site. Did so, and received confirmation email back from them within a few hours.
I know that Bioware said the first AC respec would be easy / free, and that any subsequent one would be hard but did they give any specifics in the Q/As? If the penalty for constantly changing your AC is severe enough (Losing a significant chunk of experience, enough to lose levels or something along those lines) the whole argument against being able to respec your AC might be a moot point. Judging by the information given from people who are in the beta and against the idea, it would seem that the penalty simply being an increasing cost of credits wouldn't be the best way to go about it as people would simply grind their cash right back up to be able to respec again at their leisure.
MisterAnderson
Member
If I preorder on Amazon, how long after the release date can I expect to receive it if I pick standard shipping?
GillianSeed79
Member
Pardon my ignorance, I've never actually played an MMO before but I'm actually hyped for this. For the life of me, though, I still don't understand how this game will work. It's more story focused, right? But how does that work in an MMO?
Blackface said:
Because it's more fun to play a warlock for that person? Just because WoW offers race, gender, faction, server changes, etc doesn't mean they are all homogenized. If Bioware all of a sudden put a real dollar amount on that ACrespec, would it be fine then? We don't even have the specific details, so how can we complain about our own internal speculation?
Edit: The argument that they will just let one class be unbalanced because the counterpart AC is balanced is beyond ridiculous.
HarryDemeanor
Member
You can apply for the beta by going here: http://www.swtor.com/testerzlatko said:
The next step is to check your e-mail every day to see if you get in. The beta is currently down to get ready for the next build.
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