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[Morn]

This would be an accurate assessment. And it shouldn't come as a surprise as, likely, many of the things put in place early on in development (things that are more difficult to change as you build on top of them) probably were 2-3 years ago.

There is *a lot* of running around to do in this game. And while I do think Blizzard's decision to totally streamline quests and stick them in hubs, completely scrubbing any sense of exploration, wasn't the best solution, TOR is missing a lot of the "convenience factors" that did work for WoW when they were implemented.

Just stupid shit like not being able to take "connecting flights" between travel points.

At least someone else gets it.

Unfortunately a lot of the people drooling over TOR (and likely the TOR dev team) stopped playing WoW either after BC or during LK so they haven't experienced an evolved MMO.

 

[The Lamonster]

Just saw the footage. Game looks incredible.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Raid looks fun. Can't wait.

 

[Belfast]

What they showed of the raid footage was okay, but it does give me pause. I feel like completely rolling over for the first "boss" was planned, because in all likelihood it hasn't really been tested or tunes at all. And that doesn't bode well for the current state of endgame content.

They were just like "hey, look at this giant robot!" Also, some of the things the presenter was saying made me want to retch.

"All these people made different decisions to have the character that they do now!"

What he really means is that these are the results of the same old talent tree build structure other MMOs implement. I just kind of felt like he was trying to imply that decisions you made in the story affected what abilities you could use and whatnot.

 

[Artadius]

I think if you're going to come out of the gate as a WoW clone, you better damn well make sure your game is as bug free as possible, near WoW content rich, and with almost as much in the way of features, convenience, and polish as WoW has now if you want to compete. Granted, all of this might well be unrealistic to a new MMO fresh into release.

I mean, I guess they don't need to compete honestly, and maybe they're not expecting to. They just need to break even and then hopefully make more than that.

I honestly would have probably been more excited about this game if it had been made from the ground up as an MMOFPS / MMOARPG with heavy space combat as I think there's more room in that genre right now than for another WoW clone. But that's just me.

 

[JesseZao]

At least someone else gets it.

Unfortunately a lot of the people drooling over TOR (and likely the TOR dev team) stopped playing WoW either after BC or during LK so they haven't experienced an evolved MMO.

I think most people stopped playing WoW after Cata. If SWTOR isn't the bees knees, I have Diablo III to fall back on.

 

[Morn]

What they showed of the raid footage was okay, but it does give me pause. I feel like completely rolling over for the first "boss" was planned, because in all likelihood it hasn't really been tested or tunes at all. And that doesn't bode well for the current state of endgame content.

They were just like "hey, look at this giant robot!" Also, some of the things the presenter was saying made me want to retch.

"All these people made different decisions to have the character that they do now!"

What he really means is that these are the results of the same old talent tree build structure other MMOs implement. I just kind of felt like he was trying to imply that decisions you made in the story affected what abilities you could use and whatnot.

Yea, BioWare PR speak and the reality of the game is going to backfire big time when the game actually comes out. They're talking up the game into something it really isn't.

It's vanilla WoW with a toned down Mass Effect conversation wheel for quest text.

 

[Mastamind]

Yea, BioWare PR speak and the reality of the game is going to backfire big time when the game actually comes out. They're talking up the game into something it really isn't.

It's vanilla WoW with a toned down Mass Effect conversation wheel for quest text.

Vanilla wow was the best wow? (Unless you were a non-warrior hybrid)

 

[Morn]

Vanilla wow was the best wow? (Unless you were a non-warrior hybrid)

Take off the nostalgia glasses. In 2004 it was great, but that was seven years ago. MMOs, even WoW, have evolved since then.

 

[Lesath]

Vanilla wow was the best wow? (Unless you were a non-warrior hybrid)

Warlock here. Vanilla WoW was ass.

 

[The_Squirrel_Menace]

"All these people made different decisions to have the character that they do now!"

What he really means is that these are the results of the same old talent tree build structure other MMOs implement. I just kind of felt like he was trying to imply that decisions you made in the story affected what abilities you could use and whatnot.

Over the different story arcs, regarding the decisions you make, you get light / dark side points. Your character alignment grant access to items, powers, perks and tittles that are based on said alignment.

So, yes your choices will have an impact on your character over the course of your progression in the game.

 

[LowParry]

Warlock here. Vanilla WoW was ass.

If I remember correctly, as a rogue in vanilla WoW days, we were pretty op.

 

[The_Squirrel_Menace]

Warlock here. Vanilla WoW was ass.

Lies, I used to play a lock during WoW beta until the first battleground patch.

Fear was ruling in pvp. As long you were horde.

Also vanilla wow is where its at, open world pvp had a meaning.

 

[Morn]

Over the different story arcs, regarding the decisions you make, you get light / dark side points. Your character alignment grant access to items, powers, perks and tittles that are based on said alignment.

So, yes your choices will have an impact on your character over the course of your progression in the game.

Powers and perks? No.

Tittles? No, but there are titles. But a title doesn't mean anything. It's just a cosmetic thing RP'ers like.

The LS/DS number is just like arena/PVP rating in WoW. Certain items need a certain LS or DS rank to equip.

 

[Giolon]

Powers and perks? No.

I'm pretty sure that in one of the Comic-Con interviews the devs said they did have plans for Light/Dark side powers but weren't ready to talk about them.

Of course, I could have been dreaming.

 

[Morn]

I'm pretty sure that in one of the Comic-Con interviews the devs said they did have plans for Light/Dark side powers but weren't ready to talk about them.

Of course, I could have been dreaming.

IIRC the thing they said at Comic Con is that right now LS/DS doesn't affect your character appearance like in other BioWare games, but they are thinking of it.

I was at the panel and I don't remember them saying anything about specific powers.

 

[LowParry]

I'm pretty sure that in one of the Comic-Con interviews the devs said they did have plans for Light/Dark side powers but weren't ready to talk about them.

Of course, I could have been dreaming.

If there are powers that come with a light or dark side, they'll more than likely be of the same thing just with a different name and effect. I'm pretty sure there was mention of it at one of their panels.

 

[Morn]

If there are powers that come with a light or dark side, they'll more than likely be of the same thing just with a different name and effect. I'm pretty sure there was mention of it at one of their panels.

Well that's true about every power in the game.

And more likely a LS/DS power earned with LS/DS rank would be a fluff/cosmetic thing and not something used in a raid situation.

 

[Lesath]

Lies, I used to play a lock during WoW beta until the first battleground patch.

Fear was ruling in pvp. As long you were horde.

Also vanilla wow is where its at, open world pvp had a meaning.

Yeah, I was human. Fear isn't so amazing when pretty much half the Horde could pretty much break out of your only viable CC. The class was also poorly designed for raiding and instanced PvP (outside of Fear). There were debuff limits, DoTs were weak, and dispels were practically free, so Warlocks pretty much spammed Shadowbolt no matter what.

I will admit, nothing will ever quite capture the sheer magnificence that was the AV where you turned the entire tide of the battle around from your last graveyard, fighting tooth and nail for what amounted to hours. Or maybe seeing huge raid bosses like Ragnaros for the first time.

Then of course, I also remember the insane amount of crappy itemization, poor threat mechanics, poor class mechanics, grueling instance pacing, and the difficulty in finding a group for an obscure run.

 

[LowParry]

Well that's true about every power in the game.

And more likely a LS/DS power earned with LS/DS rank would be a fluff/cosmetic thing and not something used in a raid situation.

It might be, who knows. A lot can still change from now till release day. And I'm still on the idea that we'll probably see a day 1 patch that'll be huge.

 

[Jomjom]

Got an email from EA.

But it was for Reckoning: Kingdom of Amalur. fml

 

[Morn]

It might be, who knows. A lot can still change from now till release day. And I'm still on the idea that we'll probably see a day 1 patch that'll be huge.

I think the build they're using for the September beta weekends is what is being burned on the disc. Then there'll be a multi-gig patch on the first day.

 

[Cystm]

At least someone else gets it.

Unfortunately a lot of the people drooling over TOR (and likely the TOR dev team) stopped playing WoW either after BC or during LK so they haven't experienced an evolved MMO.

I quit just before Rage of the Firelands. Wow "evolved" into something that is just not fun to play anymore. Raiding, instancing, PvP, even grinding levels became so easy, so trivial that it's hard to see anyone holding interest in it after their first trip to max level. It's funny the gripe was for the longest time for most Wow newcomers was that WoW was this hard never ending grind. They were catered to, and now the game is just a fucking bore to be honest.


As for "drooling" over TOR or it's development team, I think people just are giving credit to the people that brought us KotOR to hopefully give us something just as good if not better.

That said though, bringing in Vogel and the people from SWG is not at all reassuring.

 

[Morn]

I quit just before Rage of the Firelands. Wow "evolved" into something that is just not fun to play anymore. Raiding, instancing, PvP, even grinding levels became so easy, so trivial that it's hard to see anyone holding interest in it after their first trip to max level. It's funny the gripe was for the longest time for most Wow newcomers was that WoW was this hard never ending grind. They were catered to, and now the game is just a fucking bore to be honest.


As for "drooling" over TOR or it's development team, I think people just are giving credit to the people that brought us KotOR to hopefully give us something just as good if not better.

That said though, bringing in Vogel and the people from SWG is not at all reassuring.

If you want KOTOR3, play Mass Effect 3. That's the real successor to KOTOR. TOR is KOTOR in name only.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

I want to see more of the Eternity Vault. That little teaser at the end of stuff inside looked really fucking cool.

I want teams to split up, protect a guy while he hacks a terminal & stuff. And then fight OMG Rakatan boss.

Oh, and jump lava!

 

[Alex]

Vanilla WoW was good in that it actually had a game world (and thus world PvP and other sporadic events and happenings) and that it pre-dated flying mounts, which are a fucking abomination. There are better ways to cut down on travel than to render all landscape and scale obsolete.

Vanilla WoW was pretty trashy in every other way, even for it's time it wasn't anything grand as far as I'm concerned.

If they could mix those two, they'd have a far more appealing product as far as an MMO goes, which WoW is far less of than the hub/level based Action-RPG it is in reality nowadays.

Got an email from EA.

But it was for Reckoning: Kingdom of Amalur. fml

I got... a spam mail trying to sell me tires. So don't feel too bad!

 

[kodt]

Everyone would play as the neutrals to get rich. Maybe the Jedi+Troopers and Sith+Agents would be more powerful to compensate. Since Smugglers and Bounty Hunters might not have formal combat training.

Yeah, I would make force users more powerful in general.

Also would be cool if the Sith had motive to kill their masters to gain more power. Like some sort of ladder system where the top Sith gets exclusive power bonuses and can be replaced by other Sith.

Vanilla WoW was good in that it actually had a game world (and thus world PvP and other sporadic events and happenings) and that it pre-dated flying mounts, which are a fucking abomination. There are better ways to cut down on travel than to render all landscape and scale obsolete.

Vanilla WoW was pretty trashy in every other way, even for it's time it wasn't anything grand as far as I'm concerned.

If they could mix those two, they'd have a far more appealing product as far as an MMO goes, which WoW is far less of than the hub/level based Action-RPG it is in reality nowadays.

Vanilla WoW was great just because it was the first time we got to experience the amazing game world that Blizzard made. Many of the quests were bland, typicall MMO quests. But the world had such great artwork and it was just fun to advance to the next zone to see what awaits you.

I had fun questing for that reason alone, just to see the world. Once you have seen everything though, that amazement goes away and end game sucked bad in Vanilla. 40 man runs where half the people didn't pay attention. DKP etc... WOTLK end game improved things with badges and such, but it was still a grind.

World PVP was cool too, except when one side would run back to town and use infinitely spawning guards to protect them.

 

[Cystm]

If you want KOTOR3, play Mass Effect 3. That's the real successor to KOTOR. TOR is KOTOR in name only.

Considering the game hasn't even shipped, I'll give them a bit more time to iron things out. I never expected it to be KotOR 3, but I am hopeful it will be a sort of spiritual successor if not on release but with it's (probably numerous) patches thereafter.

I really don't see them hitting this one out of the park on day one, nor did I with WoW.

 

[Belfast]

I quit just before Rage of the Firelands. Wow "evolved" into something that is just not fun to play anymore. Raiding, instancing, PvP, even grinding levels became so easy, so trivial that it's hard to see anyone holding interest in it after their first trip to max level. It's funny the gripe was for the longest time for most Wow newcomers was that WoW was this hard never ending grind. They were catered to, and now the game is just a fucking bore to be honest.


As for "drooling" over TOR or it's development team, I think people just are giving credit to the people that brought us KotOR to hopefully give us something just as good if not better.

That said though, bringing in Vogel and the people from SWG is not at all reassuring.

This is what I've always told people, but they never seem to admit it. People get pissed off when content is too hard because most of them "don't get to see everything." Few people, relatively, ever got to the end of content in Burning Crusade, let alone complete it.

But it is the *ideal* of doing so that I feel kept a lot of people playing the game. Sure, they'd bitch and moan about it, but deep inside they hoped they'd beat the shit out of Kil'Jaeden one day. The carrot is only desirable when you can't have it, and if you do, the reward is just being able to take that bite, not the taste.

I won't say that catering to casual players with easy content doesn't do anything for the developer/publisher bottom line, but it seems like the easy way out and it doesn't seem sustainable in the long run.

 

[Hawk269]

They said the story would be equal to like 10 KOTORs or something.

One of my major interests in MMOs is exploration. So my interests in this game are:

A. Exploration
B. KOTOR quality story-line

Honestly the questing and raid content looks generic right now. Also, I am really disappointed that Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are grouped in with Old Republic/Sith. The should be a separate Fringe faction. The three major faction system is common in other Star Wars games (star wars miniatures / star wars risk)

I agree that it is also some of the things I am looking for in this game. Since information seems to be limited, I wonder how vast the planets are and how much exploration can you really do. I read some reports where some feel that the worlds are not that big and although there are 19 or so of them that the amount of area that is explorable is not that big. But at the same time others say they are pretty big.

To me and the person I quoted, I am looking for a game that has a really good story, but in a MMO blanket. A game with alot of exloration and letting me go on my own path if I choose and then go back to the main story and let me exlore.

 

[Hawk269]

I think if you're going to come out of the gate as a WoW clone, you better damn well make sure your game is as bug free as possible, near WoW content rich, and with almost as much in the way of features, convenience, and polish as WoW has now if you want to compete. Granted, all of this might well be unrealistic to a new MMO fresh into release.

I mean, I guess they don't need to compete honestly, and maybe they're not expecting to. They just need to break even and then hopefully make more than that.

I honestly would have probably been more excited about this game if it had been made from the ground up as an MMOFPS / MMOARPG with heavy space combat as I think there's more room in that genre right now than for another WoW clone. But that's just me.

Basically Rift. Rift came out of the gate pretty damn strong and they kept the content rolling consistently and alot of the mechanics in Rift while very similiar to WoW worked very well. Rift has been the smoothest MMO launch I have ever been a part of and hopefully TOR will follow in the same direction that Trion estabilshed with Rift.

 

[Alchemy]

Vanilla WoW was great just because it was the first time we got to experience the amazing game world that Blizzard made. Many of the quests were bland, typicall MMO quests. But the world had such great artwork and it was just fun to advance to the next zone to see what awaits you.

To be fair, WoW's "typical MMO quests" are really only typical because of vanilla WoW. Before that a lot of MMOs stuck to creature grinding for their content. Vanilla WoW was super casual for the time period, but has evolved to be even more so to attract as many customers as possible.

 

[Hawk269]

I think the build they're using for the September beta weekends is what is being burned on the disc. Then there'll be a multi-gig patch on the first day.

Then you are assuming that the game will be out late October. It does not take that long to press the discs, they could easily do it 3 weeks from release date.

I am more curious as to the current beta build and how old it is. With other games, the version in public beta hands is usually 1-2 months old. So for the September weekends will we be playing (if we get selected) the most current version or a version that is older but still doable to test server load etc.?

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Are we gonna get some gameplay from the show floor too at gamescon? What are they showcasing there?

 

[Giolon]

To be fair, WoW's "typical MMO quests" are really only typical because of vanilla WoW. Before that a lot of MMOs stuck to creature grinding for their content. Vanilla WoW was super casual for the time period, but has evolved to be even more so to attract as many customers as possible.

I was just about to post this exact thing. Before WoW, MMOs generally didn't even have quests, save for "Go kill that boss" once every 10-20 levels or the SWG/CoH style mission generator quests. That was one of WoW's primary innovations: micro-scale goals to keep people motivated - tasks that you could complete in less than 30 minutes and feel like you've made real progress.

 

[Lombax]

It's standard MMO game, your not getting anything unique out of a MMO raid "mechanic" wise. There might be more variety in what is going on later like what other MMO's have done, but none ever really put in new "mechanics", the core game is not going to change.

I thought about it on the way home. I'm kind of burnt out on WoW and I was hoping the Old Republic would kind of snap me out of my MMO funk.
As for new mechanics, I think it would have been really cool for the tank to do something like using a force power to pick up a chunk of the bridge and use it as a temporary shield or perhaps have an ability that they could cast on a turret or part of the boss and after x stacks the effected part would "bend slightly" / loose accuracy. just throwing ideas out there of things I think would be cool.
I'm still interested in playing the game, my hype was just deflated.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Just a suggestion to you Lombax, but maybe just take a long ass break from MMO's for a bit.

I haven't played one in over a year, and i'm feeling pumped as all hell to play this.

 

[FieryBalrog]

How linear are the planets (physical structure as well as quest design)? Are the like KOTOR style claustrophobia or open world roamingness?

 

[gatti-man]

If you want KOTOR3, play Mass Effect 3. That's the real successor to KOTOR. TOR is KOTOR in name only.

If Me3 is anything like me2 then its nothing like Kotor.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

God, I hope I get the beta soon. My brother has preordered it and if he gets the "early access", I can guarantee he will stop playing before the release date. Waste of fucking money that could be spend on other PC titles that he'll actually play!

 

[Belfast]

How linear are the planets (physical structure as well as quest design)? Are the like KOTOR style claustrophobia or open world roamingness?

Depends on the planet. There are both types, though even the "open" ones funnel you somewhat. In terms of story quests, entirely linear. Side quests are somewhat linear.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Belfast, you on Ilum yet? Tell us in a vague jedi speak whats goin on over there.

Also, you get to try the operations yet?

 

[Belfast]

No, not there yet. I'm about halfway to the level cap and as far as whatever that entails.

Edit: It also sounds like a primarily Republic world? I'm Empire. Do we even get to go there?

 

[MaddenNFL64]

No, not there yet. I'm about halfway to the level cap and as far as whatever that entails.

Umm... Alderaan right? Cool.

 

[Belfast]

Umm... Alderaan right? Cool.

Bout halfway through Nar Shadaa.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

Bout halfway through Nar Shadaa.

I want to go to Nar Shadaa & sit near that giant gold Hutt .

edit: can't you just go to any of these places once you get your ship? Should just go to Corellia, and all these other high level places, and just get your ass beat down for fun haha.

 

[Belfast]

I want to go to Nar Shadaa & sit near that giant gold Hutt .

edit: can't you just go to any of these places once you get your ship? Should just go to Corellia, and all these other high level places, and just get your ass beat down for fun haha.

I believe you can go to any world that your side has access to, but yes, a lot of them would be prohibited based on level.

 

[Kintaro]

<looks around>

Oh, are we back to hating the game now? MMO threads ebb and flow so drastically at times, it is hard to keep up.

 

[LowParry]

<looks around>

Oh, are we back to hating the game now? MMO threads ebb and flow so drastically at times, it is hard to keep up.

Apparently. Next week with PAX, everyone will be loving the game again.

 

[Kintaro]

Apparently. Next week with PAX, everyone will be loving the game again.

Okay, cool. I like the thread when its more optimistic anyway.