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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]
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Hawk269
Member
Last Hearth said:
That is what I am looking for in a game, but I also want some side stuff to do, some ability to randomly explore a planet to see what i can find..and in MMO's those are quests that you find off of the beaten path etc. The story elements that I have heard about all sound great, but if the Story is the only thing, then that is where it could fall really short.
Last Hearth
Member
No it's not.
Last Hearth
Member
It has nothing to do with reveals.
KOTOR captures the feel of the Star Wars universe, KOTOR 2 was clearly written by somebody who doesn't even like the Star Wars universe.
KOTOR captures the feel of the Star Wars universe, KOTOR 2 was clearly written by somebody who doesn't even like the Star Wars universe.
Last Hearth
Member
It's really bad, I'm just playing around with the character creation stuff now.
I tried to play KOTOR 2.
First my game glitched and had my character stuck in a room with no way to get out. After searching I found others with the same issue. My only other save was hours back. Reluctantly I started back from my earlier save.
Then I got to Dantooine and the frame-rate was unbearably slow outdoors. I had to stop playing it was so bad.
So no, KOTOR 2 is not better than KOTOR. A better game would not have game ending bugs.
Now, KOTOR 2 fully patched with no issues might be better. Too bad I was not able to experience it.
First my game glitched and had my character stuck in a room with no way to get out. After searching I found others with the same issue. My only other save was hours back. Reluctantly I started back from my earlier save.
Then I got to Dantooine and the frame-rate was unbearably slow outdoors. I had to stop playing it was so bad.
So no, KOTOR 2 is not better than KOTOR. A better game would not have game ending bugs.
Now, KOTOR 2 fully patched with no issues might be better. Too bad I was not able to experience it.
I never had game ending bugs, then again I haven't actually played kotor 2 on the pc but on xbox. I loved it to death and beat both twice though.
KOTOR is like a george lucas movie, in that everything is sterile to a fault (the redeeming factor here was HK47) and KOTOR2 is like a good Extended Universe book. It takes the jedi stories to a good direction.
One of the things I hate the most about TOR so far is how fucking naieve the "pure jedi" responses sound, and how hamfisted they are that it makes me want to choose dark side responses half the time because it's more human sometimes. Even with Jedi and Sith it isn't fucking black and white, which is pretty much what KOTOR 2 tried to explain.
Last Hearth said:
KOTOR is like a george lucas movie, in that everything is sterile to a fault (the redeeming factor here was HK47) and KOTOR2 is like a good Extended Universe book. It takes the jedi stories to a good direction.
One of the things I hate the most about TOR so far is how fucking naieve the "pure jedi" responses sound, and how hamfisted they are that it makes me want to choose dark side responses half the time because it's more human sometimes. Even with Jedi and Sith it isn't fucking black and white, which is pretty much what KOTOR 2 tried to explain.
Last Hearth
Member
KOTOR felt like the original trilogy.
KOTOR 2, not so much. When one's making a Star Wars game, that's the gold standard.
If one doesn't like the original trilogy, or hates the idea of the Force (like Avellone later confessed that he did), then one really have no business making a Star Wars games.
KOTOR 2, not so much. When one's making a Star Wars game, that's the gold standard.
If one doesn't like the original trilogy, or hates the idea of the Force (like Avellone later confessed that he did), then one really have no business making a Star Wars games.
Gvaz said:
To be fair, that's more of a problem with the lore and universe than TOR itself. In theory the difference between Sith and Jedi should be more subtle such as philosophical disagreements over pre-empitive strikes and mercy, however it almost always turns out Sith are evil evil people and Jedi are goody two-shoes. Gray Jedi such as Kyle Katarn are much more interesting and more realistic. Too bad the game doesn't give any incentive whatsoever to be neutral.
Also I never checked but I hope to god there are no lightside/darkside options for Non Force users since the idea of Jedi and Sith really don't extend to them.
Moaradin said:
Neutral should have been just as important when developing the game yet it's the bastard step child. Smugglers and bounty hunters should by default be neutral. That would have allowed for some really impressive writing and for people to make their own choice whether to be Republic or Imperials instead of the switching sides thing going on.
Irregardless what's done is done. What needs to happen now is for there to be alot of top tier armor that is neutral locking out both dark-side and light-side users.
I might as well post my impressions since I can't play.
I'll give you a bit of background on my gaming experiences with MMO's and RPGs in general, so you can tell how my experience with this beta might be coloured.
I played WoW during beta and for the first 4-6 months when it first came out before I decided that it felt more like work than anything enjoyable to me, and was really just an elaborate paper doll simulator, where I needed to grind out boring 'quests' that I had absolutely nothing invested in, emotionally. Truth be told I rarely read the mission text after the first little while, because it was completely bland.
I did however enjoy exploring the game world, and the massive scale of it, and I was addicted to seeing what my next piece of armour was going to look like on my character.
I ended up going back to WoW when the first expansion came out, because I had hoped that somehow the questing would be different but it wasn't at all.
I was a huge fan of the first KOTOR and enjoyed the second one a lot as well, but a little less because it seemed incomplete (only later would I find out that that was because it WAS incomplete)
I generally like RPG games that are story driven, and Bioware RPG's are definitely that.
I also enjoy the Star Wars universe a great deal.... for the most part.
So... my thoughts on my limited time with this one? Well... it's fun. That's the most important thing. I've enjoyed playing it.
Everyone I've told that I got in to the beta asks "So... is it more Kotor, or more Wow?"
The best I can answer is that Its game play very closely resembles WoW wrapped in a KOTOR blanket. A warm fuzzy KOTOR blanket that makes the game considerably more enjoyable.
For some one like myself, having 'cut scenes' and full voice acting for the quests, and giving you dialogue choice options, makes the game seem more like a story driven RPG, and less like a stat driven grind fest which works a lot better for me.
I was playing the Sith Inquisitor class, and the story line, as little as I managed to progress it (I only levelled him to lvl 10), was great. I found myself actively 'role playing' my character through dialogue choices. I wanted him to behave congruent with how I felt someone in his circumstances would act, and I was given the ability to do that.
That's a huge difference and huge plus for me over rolling a certain character class simply for their abilities, or because I wanted to play a tank or dps or healer or whatever.
When I played WoW I pushed on because I wanted to level, so I could wear my new gear, or move on to the next area, or get my next ability. All little things that create a certain level of compulsion and addiction but ultimately weren't enough to keep me motivated to keep playing, personally. In this game, all those things are still present, however, I keep playing because I want to see how the story plays out. I want to hand in my quests because I want to see the little cut scene and be given the opportunity to colour the outcome in my own way.
I pre-ordered this game and then got a little nervous with some of the things I read and a couple of the videos I had seen, thinking that I was just going to end up playing WoW in a KOTOR skin, and I wouldn't end up liking it. So much so that I was contemplating cancelling my pre-order. After playing the game I'm definitely going to be keeping my pre-order and I'll be trying to motivate my friends to pick the game up to play with me as well.
I'll give you a bit of background on my gaming experiences with MMO's and RPGs in general, so you can tell how my experience with this beta might be coloured.
I played WoW during beta and for the first 4-6 months when it first came out before I decided that it felt more like work than anything enjoyable to me, and was really just an elaborate paper doll simulator, where I needed to grind out boring 'quests' that I had absolutely nothing invested in, emotionally. Truth be told I rarely read the mission text after the first little while, because it was completely bland.
I did however enjoy exploring the game world, and the massive scale of it, and I was addicted to seeing what my next piece of armour was going to look like on my character.
I ended up going back to WoW when the first expansion came out, because I had hoped that somehow the questing would be different but it wasn't at all.
I was a huge fan of the first KOTOR and enjoyed the second one a lot as well, but a little less because it seemed incomplete (only later would I find out that that was because it WAS incomplete)
I generally like RPG games that are story driven, and Bioware RPG's are definitely that.
I also enjoy the Star Wars universe a great deal.... for the most part.
So... my thoughts on my limited time with this one? Well... it's fun. That's the most important thing. I've enjoyed playing it.
Everyone I've told that I got in to the beta asks "So... is it more Kotor, or more Wow?"
The best I can answer is that Its game play very closely resembles WoW wrapped in a KOTOR blanket. A warm fuzzy KOTOR blanket that makes the game considerably more enjoyable.
For some one like myself, having 'cut scenes' and full voice acting for the quests, and giving you dialogue choice options, makes the game seem more like a story driven RPG, and less like a stat driven grind fest which works a lot better for me.
I was playing the Sith Inquisitor class, and the story line, as little as I managed to progress it (I only levelled him to lvl 10), was great. I found myself actively 'role playing' my character through dialogue choices. I wanted him to behave congruent with how I felt someone in his circumstances would act, and I was given the ability to do that.
That's a huge difference and huge plus for me over rolling a certain character class simply for their abilities, or because I wanted to play a tank or dps or healer or whatever.
When I played WoW I pushed on because I wanted to level, so I could wear my new gear, or move on to the next area, or get my next ability. All little things that create a certain level of compulsion and addiction but ultimately weren't enough to keep me motivated to keep playing, personally. In this game, all those things are still present, however, I keep playing because I want to see how the story plays out. I want to hand in my quests because I want to see the little cut scene and be given the opportunity to colour the outcome in my own way.
I pre-ordered this game and then got a little nervous with some of the things I read and a couple of the videos I had seen, thinking that I was just going to end up playing WoW in a KOTOR skin, and I wouldn't end up liking it. So much so that I was contemplating cancelling my pre-order. After playing the game I'm definitely going to be keeping my pre-order and I'll be trying to motivate my friends to pick the game up to play with me as well.
BattleMonkey
Member
KOTOR 1 to me was the superior game overall largely because it had a nice complete story and it felt like it all went together.
KOTOR 2 made lot of gameplay improvements, but really the whole thing felt like a mess and everyone knows it's history of being rushed and how much got cut out. The story which is one of the most important part of the game like KOTOR was really hurt by the sloppy game we got, and it just made me not appreciate KOTOR 2. The cutscenes had alot more bugs in them, dialogues often had many pointless choices that felt like they were part of unfinished script or stuff that got cut out. Levels in KOTOR 2 were often larger but filled with lots of dead ends and huge areas of absolutely nothing.
KOTOR 2 could have been the better game if it had been given the proper time. The story also felt like a mess, and really the way it looked upon the force frankly to me had alot of inconsitency as it made good points, but they took things to the extreme. KOTOR 1 provided a much more OT feeling space epic story that wrapped itself up nicely.
Thats pretty much how the Jedi are in the prequels and clone wars, also how the order is presented in the original KOTOR as well and in many other sources like the EU. The good Jedi path seems to be more along the lines of a hardcore Jedi member with all the goody goody boring purity that entails them.
The system they have is not really an alignment system and it's odd the wording they use because really what it is, is basically what Mass Effect has. You don't really become "good" or "bad"... you just are a more heroic/good guy, or your the tough/douche depending on your choices. Even if you choose the "dark side" choices in TOR, you don't become evil, you just are more rash and a dick head. Dark side choices in a Jedi character does not make them a Sith, they just basically are a hot headed douche of a Jedi... more interesting Jedi really.... Same with non force users.
They never really should have used wording like Light side and Dark side choices as it has nothing to do with the force.
KOTOR 2 made lot of gameplay improvements, but really the whole thing felt like a mess and everyone knows it's history of being rushed and how much got cut out. The story which is one of the most important part of the game like KOTOR was really hurt by the sloppy game we got, and it just made me not appreciate KOTOR 2. The cutscenes had alot more bugs in them, dialogues often had many pointless choices that felt like they were part of unfinished script or stuff that got cut out. Levels in KOTOR 2 were often larger but filled with lots of dead ends and huge areas of absolutely nothing.
KOTOR 2 could have been the better game if it had been given the proper time. The story also felt like a mess, and really the way it looked upon the force frankly to me had alot of inconsitency as it made good points, but they took things to the extreme. KOTOR 1 provided a much more OT feeling space epic story that wrapped itself up nicely.
Gvaz said:
Thats pretty much how the Jedi are in the prequels and clone wars, also how the order is presented in the original KOTOR as well and in many other sources like the EU. The good Jedi path seems to be more along the lines of a hardcore Jedi member with all the goody goody boring purity that entails them.
Jarmel said:
The system they have is not really an alignment system and it's odd the wording they use because really what it is, is basically what Mass Effect has. You don't really become "good" or "bad"... you just are a more heroic/good guy, or your the tough/douche depending on your choices. Even if you choose the "dark side" choices in TOR, you don't become evil, you just are more rash and a dick head. Dark side choices in a Jedi character does not make them a Sith, they just basically are a hot headed douche of a Jedi... more interesting Jedi really.... Same with non force users.
They never really should have used wording like Light side and Dark side choices as it has nothing to do with the force.
Last Hearth
Member
Tik-Tok said:
You basically summed up my feelings. It may not be for everyone but I think this game will garner a lot of players from the population that aren't normally into MMOs.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
It felt like the original trilogy because its basically a retelling. There is nothing new of substance in KotOR1.Last Hearth said:
KotOR2 is easily the most interesting thing in Star Wars since 1980. It focuses on things that should have been explored long ago imo.. stuff like the nature of the Sith/Jedi conflict and how normal people relate to it or what is the Force and how would people react to being led by its "will."
BattleMonkey said:
Some of the darkside choices for Jedi are pretty close to being evil. One guy surrenders and you kill him anyway. Another example on Taris, you blackmail a couple. Another case is forcing a commander to stay put even though he may be compromised because you're too lazy to go to another base.
I do agree that they shouldn't have put the morality system as it is now, into the game. It affects player reactions and choices. In some classes, it flat out doesn't make sense.
What's loltastic is that my droid companion has an opinion on my lightside/darkside choices. I should be able to wipe the droid's memory if he disagrees with me. However to be fair they had HK-47 as evil in KOTOR 1.
FieryBalrog
Member
Well it was made by Obsidian after all, distant heirs of Planescape Torment.water_wendi said:
Despite loving BG2 to death, I feel like Black Isle ultimately outputted even superior quality on the Infinity Engine than Bioware itself (IWD + PST vs BG)
FieryBalrog
Member
Seriously, there is no way a license holder should have that kind of pull. Fuck LucasArts, they've fallen a long, long way.antonz said:
BattleMonkey
Member
antonz said:
Yup, the game we got just.... bugs me as it feels so messy and unfinished. The whole ending segment of the game just left such a bad taste in my mouth. KOTOR 2 could have become such a superior game but it just didn't have the same complete feel I got from the first.
Sucks that the beta weekend ended on such a sour note (unplayable lag since monday afternoon) but overall was a enjoyable experience.
I enjoyed the story arc of the Sith Inquisitor (will be my healer), that said I do not see this as being fun for an alt a holic. There are a ton of cinematics.
There are bugs to work out for sure, but they had us using a 2 month old version so I have no clue what has been fixed since then.
Star wars fans will not be dissapointed
I enjoyed the story arc of the Sith Inquisitor (will be my healer), that said I do not see this as being fun for an alt a holic. There are a ton of cinematics.
There are bugs to work out for sure, but they had us using a 2 month old version so I have no clue what has been fixed since then.
Star wars fans will not be dissapointed
BattleMonkey
Member
Morn said:
Fixed
Last Hearth
Member
When I took all the armor off my companion she just reverted to her default appearance in a fully covered dress. It was when I put a new armor on her that she appeared in a midriff baring shirt.
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