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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]
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Freyjadour said:
You were looking at a lowbie Smuggler. Go play a low level toon from any other MMORPG and they are just as limited. Imagine making a video of a level 7 Warrior and trying to tell people to buy World of Warcraft. :lol :lol :lol
Also, it wasn't very scripted. This is the same demo they let the press play and do whatever they want in. A lot of it is cut out of course, but it's the same demo most of the hands on came from. Except they obviously goto play an entire full mission and go/do as they please in it.
randomlyrossy
Member
BattleMonkey said:
QFT
There's a reason I stopped playing WoW, I certainly wouldn't be as excited for ToR if it were exactly like WoW but with a KoToR/Star Wars skin.
As successful as WoW is it'd be stupid to make your MMO as close to it as possible, you aren't going to make people stop playing WoW, they've invested too much time and money, you may however get new people to play or get people like myself and many others to come play it. Of course there will be WoW players who will migrate over for a while at least but I think it's been shown you aren't going to take the majority of players away from WoW.
Freyjadour
Member
Dark FaZe said:
Absolutely, I'm just really confused on what that is. This could potentially be a genre reshaping game, but I don't live on unrealistic hopes either.
BattleMonkey said:
Ah, the influx of the TOR Defense Force begins. Quick, make sure you disregard every logical discussion and turn into a firey inferno of rage everytime someone mentions WoW in a positive light. And be sure to eventually turn this thread into discussions about why WoW is bad as opposed to why TOR is good, because you know...that's a really good reason to play a game.
Trax416 said:
Right, except that playing a level 7 Warrior you have access to abilities like Heroic Strike, Thunderclap, Battle Stance, etc. that let you get a general, if narrow, idea of how the class will play in a more advanced/group setting. What I was talking about was the class revolving around an TPS cover system, which I can't yet see being all that incredibly useful in a group setting compared to say, a Sith Warrior's Tanking ability or Bounty Hunter's (seemingly) large focus on burst DPS. It's a nice touch, but all of this stuff you're gushing over needs to come together in a balanced and useful manner that I'm not entirely sure it can. That's what most of you seem to be missing here, and what's keeps MMOs from being successful.
And yes, it does look very scripted and very KotOR like level design. This is more reminiscent of Diablo style gameplay than any MMO I can recall.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
randomlyrossy said:
Exactly. There's finally an MMO where I can get some kind of completion while also still partaking in the overall epic storyline of Republic vs. Empire.
I'm rewatching these videos just now and man it really does look awesome, I just wish I could play it right now
I wish I could play it right now as well. This MMO promises to remove useless grinding with a focus on completion.
I think anyone expecting another WoW or the second coming of SWG is going to be pretty disappointed. It seems like they're going more for a KOTOR III Online! approach especially considering the BH walkthrough. Every BH is going to go through the mentor "He's the bestest shot I ever did see" spiel which is a very SP touch.
Oh yeah, I'm just saying that from what I can see the game is going to feel a lot more like KOTOR than WoW or SWG, they have said that you can solo through most of the game which is completely not the case with the comparision MMOs. Heck it's why I'm interested as a primarily SP gamer.Darklord said:
Azih said:
The dialogue seems to be the main marker for a KOTOR game. Anyone that plays an MMO for any length of time will be skipping all of that wonderful dialogue after the first time they hear it.:lol I really cannot see the point of touting "Full speech" for an MMO, unless they are looking at it from a Guild Wars type angle where you take smaller teams through missions and experience the story that way.
Everyone knows that MMO's take shape once you hit the level cap and I am sure KOTOR MMO will be no different, my only concern is the combat. Even the Sith looks pretty boring and the epic Jedi duel was typical toe-to-toe combat, seen in pretty much every MMO out there.
This is a complaint I have about nearly all MMO's, including WoW. Combat just feels so weak and disconnected. Where is the feeling of power? Why is there no force behind these heroic blows?
Sorry, MMO rant off. :lol
I really hope they have a Beta for KOTOR MMO because it will be good to see first hand how they have integrated KOTOR into a believable and workable MMO world.
Asmodai said:
I have played so many MMO's over the years and combat is always the weakest part of it for me. It really does frustrate me. Maybe I am on my own, but I would kill for an MMO than had the combat feedback that Soul Calibur has. Give me the blocking, the parries, the skilful dodges and bonecrunching attacks.
Give me an MMO that is more about skill and less about stats/gear/time.Maybe in a few years...:lol
*Edit* Sorry for going OT.
Mike G.E.D. said:
It wasn't solo friendly at all when I played it. Sure you can do lv20 barrens quests by yourself but the higher you get, the more and more elite quests there were. By lv50 in you weren't running instances then you were fucked and had such pathetic gear you'd be useless in raids and PvP.
randomlyrossy
Member
While I agree the combat still looks a bit disconnected and turn based I think it looks a little bit more interesting in places.
The lightsaber/melee combat for example had alot more interaction between the fighters, even to the extent that when he was taking on multiple opponents he blocked one behind him while continuing to attack the one in front. Personally I thought that was rad.
The lightsaber/melee combat for example had alot more interaction between the fighters, even to the extent that when he was taking on multiple opponents he blocked one behind him while continuing to attack the one in front. Personally I thought that was rad.
Darklord said:
You must have had bad luck then. WoW is amazingly soloable, and has been increasingly so. You've always been able to get to the level cap without any help. And by the time you get to raids and pvp, you aren't in the solo game anymore. If you want to be geared for group content, do group content. You can't complain about that.
I'm sure TOR will be even more suited for solo play, considering each class gets it's own KOTOR-style storyline. I'm positive this game will be completely soloable outside of end-game and any "dungeon" content.
randomlyrossy
Member
Malfunky said:
That's mostly true I got to about level 67 (for the most part) on my own, it wasn't until around then it became a bit of a grind to solo, probably just me though I got a bit fed up with it in general at that point, due to friends I played with being mega addicted and playing with similarly mega addicted people over myself, goodtimes.
Vanilla WoW was pretty tough to solo the last 10 levels, 50-60. You could solo a good chunk of quests in East and West Plaguelands, but then it all turned into either elite quests, or dungeon quests. Now though, you can solo to 80 with ease, never have to set foot in a dungeon, and most of the previous elite quests and mobs have been changed to regular levels.
From all indications, it looks like ToR will be very solo-friendly, at least that's the impression I get from the various interviews and videos I have seen.
From all indications, it looks like ToR will be very solo-friendly, at least that's the impression I get from the various interviews and videos I have seen.
Raide said:I have played so many MMO's over the years and combat is always the weakest part of it for me. It really does frustrate me. Maybe I am on my own, but I would kill for an MMO than had the combat feedback that Soul Calibur has. Give me the blocking, the parries, the skilful dodges and bonecrunching attacks.
Maybe in a few years...:lol
*Edit* Sorry for going OT.
This is what I want in order for me to have any interest in an MMO. If the thing you do the most in the game aside from chatroom is the most boring aspect... why would I want to continue playing your product and supporting the genre?
Freyjadour
Member
Soloing in WoW is about the easiest experience in any MMO.
Asmodai said:
In the early days of WoW, I'd say you were pretty much right. These days, though, you have death knights that really put you in the middle of it all and it feels like you're really kickin' ass. Some people don't like that style of play, which is always the biggest problem with MMOs How far do you ramp up the action? The more you ramp it up the less likely you are to get "everyone" to play. I think WoW's combat hits that.
Anyway, looking at the videos for this game I'm not too impressed with the combat. I guess playing my death knight has kinda spoiled me and I want more of that. Especially in a game where you have badass Sith and Jedi running around. I'll reserve ultimate judgment when I actually play, but right now everything looks pretty good...except the actual combat part.
DaPHanTomMeNace
Banned
ntb825 said:
Thats the game in its ALPHA stage. The PC reqs are gonna be ridiculous
BattleMonkey
Member
Freyjadour said:
Quick, put words in my mouth that were never said!
Yes I'm on the defense force of a game I've never played, lets ignore the fact that we have two WoW accounts in our household and been playing for over 3 years now.
Guess what buddy, what I said was absolutely true. I look forward to TOR, and I hope it's nothing like WoW, as I already play it. Too many MMOs come out and I've tried which try to just be WoW hidden underneath a different skin. If TOR is nothing more than a copy of WoW with lightsabers, then why the fuck would I even bother to stop playing WoW?
I am looking forward to both this and FFXIV's combat - from what I have seen they are more... dynamic than most MMO's.
Kotor seems to have environment play a stronger role than I am used to, and from what I've seen with the combat, it seems 'scripted' or 'cinematic' - and if that is a product of game design, that is fine.
With FFXIV, they are more or less going to force you mix up your attacks (as attacks will become less effective if you spam the same things over and over) and classes will not be as concrete as most MMO's.. hopefully giving it a more dynamic feel.
Kotor seems to have environment play a stronger role than I am used to, and from what I've seen with the combat, it seems 'scripted' or 'cinematic' - and if that is a product of game design, that is fine.
With FFXIV, they are more or less going to force you mix up your attacks (as attacks will become less effective if you spam the same things over and over) and classes will not be as concrete as most MMO's.. hopefully giving it a more dynamic feel.
BattleMonkey
Member
The scriptedness makes me wonder if most quest/story material will be like that while other aspects of the game will be open ended? Lot of unknowns about the game, but also kind of like the idea of more scripted aspects instead of wondering around to camps of mobs that you randomly kill.
Asmodai said:
Some of you people are unreasonably cynical.
Do you think Blizzard and other developers sit around saying, "Let's not bother make the game more fun?" Combat in WoW, for one, has evolved drastically since launch. I had more fun leveling my Warrior to 80 than I ever have playing that game because, aside from all the great new content, what they did to the combat system made the game more fun. And honestly, what sort of competitor to WoW would not want to, you know, surpass WoW? That just doesn't make any sense.
I don't know where you're getting your "sub-par audio" idea from. You do know how large this is as a voice over project, don't you? But this "sup-par visual" thing is one of the best things WoW has done for PC gaming. The market is more than just the hardest of hardcore. This is an open platform. People don't have the same specs across the board like on consoles, so developers cannot afford to market such massive projects niche audiences anymore. They have to make their games not as technical showcases, but as impressive demonstrations of art. That's why games like WoW, Wind Waker, and many many 2D games still look very appealing. You can argue how bad you think it looks all you want, but the fact that people still commend WoW after all these years is proof not only of a good business decision, but of artistic talent.
What I would offer is that, there are some very important distinctions to be made between a game like Soul Calibur and an MMO. I'll point out one that I think is the biggest.
One game is based entirely on combat, the game's single gameplay system. Progression is defined by an increase in skill and pure dedication to that single system. An RPG, by definition, has multiple systems. There is so much more to be updated and to keep your playerbase interested, and to keep them wanting to progress. The world, the story and characters, itemization, combat, and all of its other systems have to be balanced and developed almost equally based on character progression. It's much more feasible to disperse and quantify such content with statistics and dice rolls and leveling mechanics as opposed to pure skill. How do you balance a game when the only difference between a newbie and Elwynn Forest versus a veteran player fighting the Lich King when there is literally no difference between their characters? Why even develop newbie content when everybody would have the chance at any time to do the latest and greatest content for the best reward?
It's a matter of balance, progression, content and focus. It's not as easy as it sounds. But progress towards deeper combat has been made, there's no doubt about that.
Freyjadour
Member
BattleMonkey said:
You know, you just described what your original comment usually devolves into. Just look at the Aion thread.
Besides that though, I'm not really sure anyone wanted a WoW Star Wars edition, but rather just wary of how the game seems to be turning out. If they succeed, it could be a massive step forward for the genre, if they don't...well...I won't be surprised.
BattleMonkey said:
Unfortunately, the idea of an MMO is that of an open world experience. This is one of the things that was so impressive about WoW at launch.
BattleMonkey
Member
Freyjadour said:
Well if your having solo play in your MMO, then their is no point in having it open. Scripting will just make it better experience. If your playing quests solo in most MMOs the experience is kinda tarnished by the open nature of the thing. Other MMOs have done some scripted material well though obviously this requires instancing, while some look down on this.
Whats important is that they put stuff in the game for the community to enjoy. We still know nothing of any kind of PVP, how its going to look with multiple characters interacting, etc. All we keep seeing is what looks to be KOTOR3
PseudoKirby
Banned
Replaying KOTOR right now, and with seeing these screenshots are making me melt...
although I am still on the "this should have been KOTOR3" bandwagon..
KOTOR3 with a Mass Effect MMO would have been better
although I am still on the "this should have been KOTOR3" bandwagon..
KOTOR3 with a Mass Effect MMO would have been better
ACE 1991 said:
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but regardless of all what? Only one sentence in that thread was in defense of WoW's combat, and I didn't even defend its difficulty. And I really don't want to be the one to turn this into a WoW thread, but if easier means less frustration, then by all means, make it easy.
Remember what it was like leveling from 1-60 back in the day. As said earlier, level 50 to 60 could get a bit difficult. Quests became very sparse. You had to travel very far to find them and very far to complete them. For a lot of people, you pretty much to grind through your last few levels. Your gear was probably a mixture of terrible greens and blues from 20 levels back. Your class was probably underpowered or imbalanced in some fashion. And all of this on a 60% speed mount that, if you were lucky, you'd have enough to buy 40 levels in. Now, most classes have less downtime, they're more varied, they have cool tricks and emergency abilities, we're all geared better, we all have fast mounts. We can actually enjoy leveling now, because now we can actually level.
Remember the original raids. The simplicity of the encounters, the ridiculous size of the dungeons. How long did it take to recover from a bad wipe? How much randomization was there? Try and tell me encounters from 2 or 3 years ago are as in depth, unique, and detailed as they are now.
Remember the PvP system. It was almost non-existant. Talk about a gankfest. Now, we have arenas, we have battlegrounds, we have an entire zone built for PvP, we have daily PvP quests in most Northrend zones that encourage open-world PvP. We have rewards for all levels of PvPers.
WoW is an easier game than it ever was, but it's also a better game than it ever was. That's an excellent trade off, in my opinion. If Bioware wants TOR to follow in WoW's footsteps and continue to steer away from the 12-hour-a-day timesinks, I'm all for it. If they want to make the game accessible to casual and core gamers, bring it on. If they want their game to run well on a variety of systems, bring it on. And luckily, every bit of information they have released pertaining to such systems has pointed in that very direction. Heeeyall yeah, Bioware.
infinityBCRT
Member
My thoughts on the gameplay walkthrough:
- This game does give me a very KOTOR 1/2 vibe, but maybe a bit too much
- Some of the fighting animations look like they are straight from KOTOR (especially the lightsabre attacks)
- Environments look okay
- People look butt ugly. Even the humanoid robot looks ugly. I don't understand this "stylized realism" they are going for. Even the old models from KOTOR hold up better than these.
- Why did they show multiplayer with 2 characters who look and sounded the same? That was kinda dumb. I didn't even notice the switch over to the other character.
- Multiplayer conversations on the other hand are really cool
- The GUI makes the game look very cluttered/unattractive. The original KOTOR UI is much nicer. If they could figure a way to make it look a little sleeker like KOTOR it would be much better.
- How do you decide who you are fighting in combat? I think instead of having numbers you have to press it should allow you to do it KOTOR style by clicking icons on screen beside the NPCs to queue up attacks.
- Overall the game does look like what a KOTOR 3 would have been if they made it right after KOTOR 2 but this game omits some of the great strides they made with Mass Effect with the real time combat and stunning photo realistic visuals. I don't want to touch MMOs with a 10 foot pole but I think I'll probably play this game because it does a lot of things that I'd want form a KOTOR 3 but I'd still much rather prefer to see a real KOTOR 3 with visuals like Mass Effect.
- This game does give me a very KOTOR 1/2 vibe, but maybe a bit too much
- Some of the fighting animations look like they are straight from KOTOR (especially the lightsabre attacks)
- Environments look okay
- People look butt ugly. Even the humanoid robot looks ugly. I don't understand this "stylized realism" they are going for. Even the old models from KOTOR hold up better than these.
- Why did they show multiplayer with 2 characters who look and sounded the same? That was kinda dumb. I didn't even notice the switch over to the other character.
- Multiplayer conversations on the other hand are really cool
- The GUI makes the game look very cluttered/unattractive. The original KOTOR UI is much nicer. If they could figure a way to make it look a little sleeker like KOTOR it would be much better.
- How do you decide who you are fighting in combat? I think instead of having numbers you have to press it should allow you to do it KOTOR style by clicking icons on screen beside the NPCs to queue up attacks.
- Overall the game does look like what a KOTOR 3 would have been if they made it right after KOTOR 2 but this game omits some of the great strides they made with Mass Effect with the real time combat and stunning photo realistic visuals. I don't want to touch MMOs with a 10 foot pole but I think I'll probably play this game because it does a lot of things that I'd want form a KOTOR 3 but I'd still much rather prefer to see a real KOTOR 3 with visuals like Mass Effect.
infinityBCRT
Member
I still think a Mass Effect console MMO is a logical choice for them after Mass Effect 3 as they'll have the experience from both the ME trilogy and the TOR MMO to make an even better experience on the consoles, one that doesn't have to sacrifice graphics either.PseudoKirby said:
infinityBCRT said:
The TOR team is made up of mostly veteran MMO developers so experiance isnt the issue its just funding really. Lucasarts is either cofunding or fully funding this thing. Bioware is not so lucky when it comes to their own IP they have to take full financial responsability on themselves.
Though I do see a potential Mass Effect MMO depending on what happens with 3.
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
Im hoping for some good community type stuff which is what made OG SWG good.
Good crafting classes, Good ways to sell stuff, Housing system. Non combat stuff would be nice besides crafting but i could live without. If they dont add a housing system i will be VERY disappointed.
I want to be able to have a home i can go to and where i can put my acquired items beside having some virtual slot inside a "Bank"
Good crafting classes, Good ways to sell stuff, Housing system. Non combat stuff would be nice besides crafting but i could live without. If they dont add a housing system i will be VERY disappointed.
I want to be able to have a home i can go to and where i can put my acquired items beside having some virtual slot inside a "Bank"
ntb825 said:
I didn't have that bad a computer when Age of Conan came out, but DAMN it made it almost unplayable! Crysis on medium was fine, but AoC was unplayable even at lower settings....
Bioware have said numerous times that they plan on getting TOR on a wide range of machines, hence the art style to compensate for this so then lesser computers will still have a reasonable looking game.
laserbeam said:
I personally would rather see the main Bioware offices create a new IP once ME3 is done and steals all GOTG awards from ME2.
I think a lot of people here are getting overly-critical on what so far has only been shown pre-alpha footage. If there was 6 months to go development time, then fair enough I would be getting concerned too, but with the potential release so far away I expect things to look better and better. That's why I have totally ignored the GUI, the fighting animations, even the graphics to an extent as there will be more polish with special effects implemented towards the end of the game's life cycle.
I also think people dont realise that this game is an MMO, not a SP game - there are technical restraints that cannot allow the level of interaction we see in modern day SP games like Mass Effect. All MMOs have the feeling of loose connection in combat, it cannot be helped - at least TOR appears to be trying its best to make it as involving as possible. And with the first ever cover mechanic, interesting lightsabre combat and blaster deflections, I am impressed so far.
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
Finally saw the IGN vids. Looking good. Ive grown to like the art style/cartoonish looks MMOs go with. As long as they get the art down itll look awesome.
Lightsabers still seem alittle off to me. still look too big?
Lightsabers still seem alittle off to me. still look too big?
Lord Phol
Member
Aw and here I was going to call quits on online pc gaming and go back to my console roots, after seeing the ign walkthrough that probably won't happen :x.
The HUD which i'm guessing is only temporarily is a bit messy, combat and animation/respence is a little off but overall it's looking pretty good. The enviroments are among the best I've seen in an mmo, looks to be a big step up from the old Kotor games. Even starting to like the character design, the alien in the BH story looked great IMO, makes me curious on what species you'll get to choose from.
The HUD which i'm guessing is only temporarily is a bit messy, combat and animation/respence is a little off but overall it's looking pretty good. The enviroments are among the best I've seen in an mmo, looks to be a big step up from the old Kotor games. Even starting to like the character design, the alien in the BH story looked great IMO, makes me curious on what species you'll get to choose from.
infinityBCRT said:
I think you need to watch the video again. I don't know how you can mistake the two player characters in that video. But I do believe there were repeating character models. The good news is, it's pre-beta, so they can clone as many characters as they want.
Personally, I think the character models are very impressive for an MMO. The amount of detail in the armor and the personality they put into each character's face(the commander on the ship really stuck with me) is really refreshing for an MMO.
I recently played through KOTOR1+2 and as much as I love those games, I gotta say.. those characters really don't hold up. :lol
Except for HK. He's brilliant.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Just got around to watching the IGN videos.
Seems to be good, whenever it's in a stable fashion (post-release) I'll give it a whirl.
Seems to be good, whenever it's in a stable fashion (post-release) I'll give it a whirl.
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