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[Inkwell]

I'm actually excited for this game. This is coming from someone who hasn't ever played any MMOs or KOTOR games, as well not being a big Star Wars fan. If the KOTOR games are released on Steam (please) I'll definitely give them a try. From the little exposure that I've had, the Old Republic stuff just seems to be a little more accessible. Almost like it's completely separate from the rest of the Star Wars universe.

I really like the world and character design they are going for. They obviously can't make a realistic looking, so they compromised. The character design actually reminds me a little bit of Team Fortress 2, although leaning more on being a little less cartoony. I know it's an early build. The thing is if it's supposed to run on a wide range of systems, the performance seemed pretty terrible in areas.

 

[randomlyrossy]

I'm actually excited for this game. This is coming from someone who hasn't ever played any MMOs or KOTOR games, as well not being a big Star Wars fan. If the KOTOR games are released on Steam (please) I'll definitely give them a try. From the little exposure that I've had, the Old Republic stuff just seems to be a little more accessible. Almost like it's completely separate from the rest of the Star Wars universe.

I really like the world and character design they are going for. They obviously can't make a realistic looking, so they compromised. The character design actually reminds me a little bit of Team Fortress 2, although leaning more on being a little less cartoony. I know it's an early build. The thing is if it's supposed to run on a wide range of systems, the performance seemed pretty terrible in areas.

Jade Empire is up on Steam, I'd definetly recommend it. While not as good as KoToR it was pretty enjoyable. I quite liked the new combat system too, sure it was simple but to me it was a bit more satisfying than the turn based combat in KoToR.

 

[infinityBCRT]

I think you need to watch the video again. I don't know how you can mistake the two player characters in that video. But I do believe there were repeating character models. The good news is, it's pre-beta, so they can clone as many characters as they want.

Personally, I think the character models are very impressive for an MMO. The amount of detail in the armor and the personality they put into each character's face(the commander on the ship really stuck with me) is really refreshing for an MMO.

I recently played through KOTOR1+2 and as much as I love those games, I gotta say.. those characters really don't hold up. :lol

Except for HK. He's brilliant.

Yes they are wearing different equipment but their faces looked similar. I know its alpha footage but they at least should have done male/female or a different hair colour.

And I still think this Carth model looks better than any model they showed in that vid. If they used the original KOTOR asthetic with better textures/poly counts it be so much better than their "sylized realism".

 

[Squall ASF]

So how exactly are they balancing the characters if they've stated? There's no plausable reason anyone could stand up to a Jedi or Sith but you obviously have to let that go to enjoy the game. So how are they making a Scoundrel for instance, able to stand up to a Jedi or Sith character?

 

[Future PhaZe]

Is there even pvp?

 

[BattleMonkey]

So how exactly are they balancing the characters if they've stated? There's no plausable reason anyone could stand up to a Jedi or Sith but you obviously have to let that go to enjoy the game. So how are they making a Scoundrel for instance, able to stand up to a Jedi or Sith character?

Seeing how the characters are "heroes" they are given a bit more freedom to be bad ass than normal people. No matter what character your playing your gonna end up mowing through thousands of other enemies and still somehow be alive. It's a game gotta just accept some things aren't going to be realistic.

Like the pen and paper rpg's, hero characters are beyond normal. Like how Jango Fett was able to go toe to toe with Obi Wan in the movie and such, you got plot magic and generally better than random dudes.

 

[Inkwell]

Jade Empire is up on Steam, I'd definetly recommend it. While not as good as KoToR it was pretty enjoyable. I quite liked the new combat system too, sure it was simple but to me it was a bit more satisfying than the turn based combat in KoToR.

I've been eying Jade Empire for quite a while actually. I'm hoping it gets a steam weekend deal or something. Maybe if KOTOR gets released they will do a Bioware sale. Yeah, it's only $15, but I'm trying to keep my spending down as much as possible at the moment.

I never realized KOTOR was turn-based. I think I might have gotten KOTOR and Jedi Knight games confused a bit. I don't mind turn-based games though.

 

[Blackface]

So how exactly are they balancing the characters if they've stated? There's no plausable reason anyone could stand up to a Jedi or Sith but you obviously have to let that go to enjoy the game. So how are they making a Scoundrel for instance, able to stand up to a Jedi or Sith character?

Jedi were killed all the time when they were plentiful, long before the movies. Also, like they said, you are playing as the best representation of your specific class. You aren't just any Bounty Hunter, you are one of the elite, best of the best, just like in any MMO, you play a hero.

 

[Blackface]

Is there even pvp?

Yes. PVP will be a big part of the game. It was let slip during an interview about the Smuggelr. One of the developers starting talking about high-end Smuggler PVP tier gear.

Also, apparently, they let it slip Player Housing is probably in the game during Gamescon.

 

[Lucius86]

Is there even pvp?

Well a Jedi and a Sith Lord sure are not going to be braiding each others hair...

 

[Blackface]

I've been eying Jade Empire for quite a while actually. I'm hoping it gets a steam weekend deal or something. Maybe if KOTOR gets released they will do a Bioware sale. Yeah, it's only $15, but I'm trying to keep my spending down as much as possible at the moment.

I never realized KOTOR was turn-based. I think I might have gotten KOTOR and Jedi Knight games confused a bit. I don't mind turn-based games though.

Yes, it was, using a D20 system. The combat in SWTOR is more action based, similar to World of Warcraft, combined with action game elements.

The combat is meant to be fast, fluid and fun.

Also, people need to remember that footage wasn't just "pre-beta", it's Pre-Alpha. The fact it looks that good at that stage in development is beyond amazing.

I don't really see how anyone can complain about the environments. They look amazing. Far better then just about any MMORPG on the market. Considering the game is an open-world MMO, it's pretty crazy they could even pull that level of detail off.

 

[Arnie]

It's 8:48 in the UK, just had my morning cup of coffee. I don't go to Leeds Festival until tomorrow so it's time to spend the day playing KOTOR 2.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

So how exactly are they balancing the characters if they've stated? There's no plausable reason anyone could stand up to a Jedi or Sith but you obviously have to let that go to enjoy the game. So how are they making a Scoundrel for instance, able to stand up to a Jedi or Sith character?

There's a good explanation I heard somewhere in SWG. All the Jedi/Sith in the movies were considered exceptional even by their standards. Regular Jedi/Sith are pretty mediocre. It's a hard point to get across and of course its not the most popular of ideas, but I like it.

 

[Blackface]

There's a good explanation I heard somewhere in SWG. All the Jedi/Sith in the movies were considered exceptional even by their standards. Regular Jedi/Sith are pretty mediocre. It's a hard point to get across and of course its not the most popular of ideas, but I like it.

In SWG it made no sense because of the time frame. There were NOT Jedi running everywhere at that point in the history of Star Wars. You basically had Luke, who happens to be arguably the most powerful ever.

The time frame SWTOR is set during Jedi were in abundance. It was a common sight to see Jedi multiple times a day. Not all of them were on the caliber of the ones you see in the movies like Yoda, Windu, Luke, Obi.

Jedi were exceptional compared to normal people back then, but compared to other great heroes, only Jedi Masters and some Knights excelled.

Even during the Movies troopers and even Geonosians kill multiple Jedi, and even some Jedi Masters/high end Knights.

You also need to consider a lot of the heroes you encounter in the years before the movies happened to be force sensitive and were just never brought into the Jedi order. They grew up doing other things, not really knowing they were force sensitive, and excelling at whatever it is they chose to do.

 

[Squall ASF]

There's a good explanation I heard somewhere in SWG. All the Jedi/Sith in the movies were considered exceptional even by their standards. Regular Jedi/Sith are pretty mediocre. It's a hard point to get across and of course its not the most popular of ideas, but I like it.

It's true that most jedi/sith are significantly weaker than the famous bloodlines of Skywalkers and Solos (guess it's still technically skywalker though), I was just thinking about how someone using the force still has an advantage over someone who doesn't. All the characters that we can control are considered 'Heroes' so none of them are lame chumps. That said, a few highly skilled individuals like the Fetts, were able to kill many jedi. I keep thinking someone with the force and a lightsaber has a supreme advantage over someone with a blaster and grenades. Curous to see how they implement the gameplay to balance this out.

 

[Arandur]

Also, apparently, they let it slip Player Housing is probably in the game during Gamescon.

I hope there will be player housing ingame.
I'm playing WoW, but I miss a lot Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online gameplay, housing and crafting.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It's true that most jedi/sith are significantly weaker than the famous bloodlines of Skywalkers and Solos (guess it's still technically skywalker though), I was just thinking about how someone using the force still has an advantage over someone who doesn't. All the characters that we can control are considered 'Heroes' so none of them are lame chumps. That said, a few highly skilled individuals like the Fetts, were able to kill many jedi. I keep thinking someone with the force and a lightsaber has a supreme advantage over someone with a blaster and grenades. Curous to see how they implement the gameplay to balance this out.

Many Jedi have been killed by non force users throughout the history of the universe. As with Han Solo, Leia, Luke, Wedge, etc, etc, as I said before, plot armor. Again if you were to look at the stats these characters have in the pen and paper rpg's the main story characters are usually so far advanced and powerful than a player can hope to achieve. Just look at ROTS and how easily Jedi Masters were dispatched by clone troopers. In AOTC we see a ton of Jedi killed by mere battle droids even.

 

[Squall ASF]

Many Jedi have been killed by non force users throughout the history of the universe. As with Han Solo, Leia, Luke, Wedge, etc, etc, as I said before, plot armor. Again if you were to look at the stats these characters have in the pen and paper rpg's the main story characters are usually so far advanced and powerful than a player can hope to achieve. Just look at ROTS and how easily Jedi Masters were dispatched by clone troopers. In AOTC we see a ton of Jedi killed by mere battle droids even.

That's nice, it still doesn't address what I just stated which is that a person with force powers and a lightsaber has a significant advantage over someone that doesn't. In a video game where every character starts from scratch and therefore, no advantage in terms of the character's experience and other variables like that, a person with the force and a lightsaber would have the edge. Does that mean someone could better upgrade their character later and can just plain be better at the game? ofcourse. But what about people on equal level in terms of skill and building the character up? How does the game balance a superior class with a more normal class to make the battle fair? from a gameplay perspective?

 

[BattleMonkey]

A person with force and lightsaber has no true advantage to a person without unless they are trained and fully developed in their skills. A lightsaber is no good to a person against a blaster unless they are trained properly. The force is of little use to a person who does not know how to properly wield it. If anything a beginner jedi depending on just a lightsaber and his meager force skills is going to be at a disadvantage to those using more technology and cunning that are more reliable than a "mystic" source that you don't fully understand yet.

The idea is that in an rpg setting you start at a very crappy level and you gotta build yourself up. As you improve you should be better than others? In a story sense possibly but again this boils down to characters being played are what one would call "heroic level" and beyond normal capabilities.

How do you make them fair? Again this falls to the idea of the characters being fair because of how they are matched up level wise. This is a rpg, your putting it into the realm of reality which is making it hard to see how it should work. According to this game a lvl2 Scoundrel, is to say equal to a lvl2 jedi. The levels are the balancing factor despite wanting to think that two characters of same experience should not be equal. The game is saying they are equal.

 

[randomlyrossy]

I think the Jango Fett vs Obi Wan fight from AoTC that someone mentioned is a good example of how a Jedi isn't completely unstoppable, I mean Obi Wan is essentially one of the most powerful Jedi there is and he very nearly gets his ass handed to him.

 

[bloodforge]

Bounty Hunters, with the proper training, can easily kill a Jedi.

Also, Jedi can't see Droids with the force.

 

[Squall ASF]

A person with force and lightsaber has no true advantage to a person without unless they are trained and fully developed in their skills. A lightsaber is no good to a person against a blaster unless they are trained properly. The force is of little use to a person who does not know how to properly wield it. If anything a beginner jedi depending on just a lightsaber and his meager force skills is going to be at a disadvantage to those using more technology and cunning that are more reliable than a "mystic" source that you don't fully understand yet.

The idea is that in an rpg setting you start at a very crappy level and you gotta build yourself up. As you improve you should be better than others? In a story sense possibly but again this boils down to characters being played are what one would call "heroic level" and beyond normal capabilities.

How do you make them fair? Again this falls to the idea of the characters being fair because of how they are matched up level wise. This is a rpg, your putting it into the realm of reality which is making it hard to see how it should work. According to this game a lvl2 Scoundrel, is to say equal to a lvl2 jedi. The levels are the balancing factor despite wanting to think that two characters of same experience should not be equal. The game is saying they are equal.

I believe I already addressed your first paragraph with my previous statement but the last point you make holds true. I was talking about it with a co-worker as we left for lunch and it came down to that each attack does a set amount of damage. So each class has it's own attacks that will do the set damage and you have to deside which combination is best suited for that battle. I have to just go outside of the story mindset as you say, of trained force users being far more powerful than everyone else, and accept that their attacks only do x amount of damage.

 

[mikekennyb]

I've been eying Jade Empire for quite a while actually. I'm hoping it gets a steam weekend deal or something. Maybe if KOTOR gets released they will do a Bioware sale. Yeah, it's only $15, but I'm trying to keep my spending down as much as possible at the moment.

I never realized KOTOR was turn-based. I think I might have gotten KOTOR and Jedi Knight games confused a bit. I don't mind turn-based games though.

Not to derail the thread, but pick up Jade Empire. I think it gets a lot of hate because IGN gave it a 98 when they reviewed it, which especially for the time was an absurdly high score. Jade Empire is still a great game though, one of my favorite Action-RPGs.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I think the Jango Fett vs Obi Wan fight from AoTC that someone mentioned is a good example of how a Jedi isn't completely unstoppable, I mean Obi Wan is essentially one of the most powerful Jedi there is and he very nearly gets his ass handed to him.

After the original trilogy lot of people saw Jedi as gods that were nearly invincible. Remember lot of backlash from the nerd rage when the prequels came out and we see Jedi being killed left and right by non force users. People had this expectation that Jedi had some god spider sense that could detect any enemy when we see Jedi Masters getting shot in the back like nothing.

 

[randomlyrossy]

After the original trilogy lot of people saw Jedi as gods that were nearly invincible. Remember lot of backlash from the nerd rage when the prequels came out and we see Jedi being killed left and right by non force users. People had this expectation that Jedi had some god spider sense that could detect any enemy when we see Jedi Masters getting shot in the back like nothing.

Well considering in the original trilogy all but a handful of Jedi were still around I don't know why people would consider them invincible especially when the only 2 Jedi (not including Luke and Anakin/Vader) that we see die over the course of the Trilogy

 

[BattleMonkey]

Well that was the problem, we saw some of the histories most powerful jedi in the original trilogy, so it gave some false impressions on how badass they are. Defusing blaster bolts with your hand and other cool things doesn't really come natural to all Jedi. People only knew Jedi from what they saw in the original Trilogy with Yoda, Luke, Emperor, vader, etc and got extremely high expectations.

 

[Blackface]

I am not some expert in Star Wars lore. Much of what I know came from me playing SWG and getting interested in it and reading wookiepedia.

However, it's pretty damn common in the years before the movies for Jedi to die to any and everything. Jedi would go off on a mission and never return. They would die to random things they encounter on far away planets. BH's would kill them, etc.. Obviously Jedi are superior to just about everyone, and a Jedi Master is even superior to great warriors of other creeds. However, A hero that may be a soldier or a BH is still a hero, and still as good at what they do, as a Jedi can be at what they do.

It's also just a fucking game. You have to have compromise. All games are not-relastitc. I don't think dying over and over, and magically being alive again is very realistic but you make compromising for a game to work.

 

[Squall ASF]

It's true, we tend to see the strongest Jedi that would mop the floor with bounty hunters, etc. But there were many Jedi back then and most of them werent' anywhere near as strong as the main characters and could be killed by professionals. My point before was that in this game, you're building a character from the ground up and can make them strong and experienced. So the question of how anyone could handle a very well built Jedi or Sith is valid but again, it's a game and it's not realistic to the story. You just have to let that go and enjoy playing as your favorite type of character. It'd be boring if you could slaughter every non-force user without trying.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

This looks like this might be my first MMO. Is there any word or speculation as to what the monthly fee will be?

 

[laserbeam]

This looks like this might be my first MMO. Is there any word or speculation as to what the monthly fee will be?

I would imagine it will be the industry standard $14.95

 

[Vinci]

I am not some expert in Star Wars lore. Much of what I know came from me playing SWG and getting interested in it and reading wookiepedia.

However, it's pretty damn common in the years before the movies for Jedi to die to any and everything. Jedi would go off on a mission and never return. They would die to random things they encounter on far away planets. BH's would kill them, etc.. Obviously Jedi are superior to just about everyone, and a Jedi Master is even superior to great warriors of other creeds. However, A hero that may be a soldier or a BH is still a hero, and still as good at what they do, as a Jedi can be at what they do.

It's also just a fucking game. You have to have compromise. All games are not-relastitc. I don't think dying over and over, and magically being alive again is very realistic but you make compromising for a game to work.

Your point being that people die. Or 'shit happens' in a sense, even to Jedi. I don't have a problem with that. I want to be a bounty hunter or smuggler; the Jedi don't interest me overly much.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

I would imagine it will be the industry standard $14.95

How often has that increased since MMO's started out of curiousity?

 

[laserbeam]

How often has that increased since MMO's started out of curiousity?

Its been 14.95 for about as long as I can remember. When I played Galaxies 2003 it was 14.95

You get a small discount if you buy months in bulk of course. 6 month blocks usually net 13.95 a month and a year is usually 12.95 a month. What I woul dlike is to see more MMO's give the lifetime subscription option. A few have done it where $199 will buy you access for as long as the game exists

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Well I'm sold.

 

[laserbeam]

MMO's seem to be resistant to price hikes simply because new games have to be competative with old ones and to try and launch a "wow killer" or whatever you need to compete and saying well I need 17.95 a month kills that right out of the gate.

 

[Beowulf28]

Its been 14.95 for about as long as I can remember. When I played Galaxies 2003 it was 14.95

You get a small discount if you buy months in bulk of course. 6 month blocks usually net 13.95 a month and a year is usually 12.95 a month. What I woul dlike is to see more MMO's give the lifetime subscription option. A few have done it where $199 will buy you access for as long as the game exists

Doesn't WoW offer 3 month cards for $20? It would be cool If they had those available for this game at launch.

 

[randomlyrossy]

It just occured to me, if ToR has a lifetime subscription deal like Champions Online with loads of crazy extras, I might not be able to resist :X

 

[laserbeam]

Doesn't WoW offer 3 month cards for $20? It would be cool If they had those available for this game at launch.

Wow does 60 day cards for usually 29.99 though Amazon.com is selling them for $24.

It just occured to me, if ToR has a lifetime subscription deal like Champions Online with loads of crazy extras, I might not be able to resist :X

I would jump on a lifetime sub for TOR. Lifetime cost comes out to 13 months of gametime if you bought month by month. Easy enough to get your moneys worth out of it

 

[Blackface]

Doesn't WoW offer 3 month cards for $20? It would be cool If they had those available for this game at launch.

Maybe in America but here it's like $30 for 60 days.

 

[Vinci]

How often has that increased since MMO's started out of curiousity?

IIRC, and this is quite a long time ago so I'm not sure, but I think UO was $9.95 / month when it first came out. So the price has gone up very little in all these years really considering how much more pricey these games have become to create and maintain.

In truth, MMOs are some of the best investments in gaming. I've never understood the mentality that says, "Monthly fees?? fuck that!" as it's impossible to know how much money they've saved me in the long-term.

 

[Squall ASF]

IIRC, and this is quite a long time ago so I'm not sure, but I think UO was $9.95 / month when it first came out. So the price has gone up very little in all these years really considering how much more pricey these games have become to create and maintain.

In truth, MMOs are some of the best investments in gaming. I've never understood the mentality that says, "Monthly fees?? fuck that!" as it's impossible to know how much money they've saved me in the long-term.

It's a matter of principality.

 

[PatzCU]

It's a matter of principality.

How is that? Because the company you are paying a subscription for has to manage and maintain enormous amounts of servers so that you can play in a persistant world with thousands of other players? Or because that company you are paying is also providing content updates and game tweaks that balance the game for a more enjoyable experience?

 

[Squall ASF]

How is that? Because the company you are paying a subscription for has to manage and maintain enormous amounts of servers so that you can play in a persistant world with thousands of other players? Or because that company you are paying is also providing content updates and game tweaks that balance the game for a more enjoyable experience?

ArenaNet does this for free for Guild Wars and will continue to do so for Guild Wars 2 which will have a persistant world. In any case, it's no one's place to state whether someone should have to pay or not, we can all make our own decision. I was only commenting because he said he didn't understand the mindset.

 

[PIMPBYBLUD]

I hope there will be player housing ingame.
I'm playing WoW, but I miss a lot Star Wars Galaxies and Ultima Online gameplay, housing and crafting.

IMO player housing and crafting were done the best in SWG. I really miss that game, it was my first MMO. I'm hoping that there will be an expansion for space fighters like Jump To Lightspeed but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[vesp]

ArenaNet does this for free for Guild Wars and will continue to do so for Guild Wars 2 which will have a persistant world. In any case, it's no one's place to state whether someone should have to pay or not, we can all make our own decision. I was only commenting because he said he didn't understand the mindset.

Guild Wars 1 was essentially a slightly larger scale PSO or Diablo, it wasnt the same thing at all. In addition they launched 2 stand alones and 1 expansion in like 2 years to keep revenue flowing, in addition to stuff like buying character slots and music expansions. While eventually most MMOs do get on a yearly expansion cycle, it's usually like 2 years before the first expansion. I loved the game hardcore, but to pretend it was a full featured mmo providing the same kind of content and having the same upkeep costs of a "real" mmo is utterly ridiculous.

We haven't seen nearly enough of Guild Wars 2, know enough about their expansion plans, and know the extent (if any) of in game microtransactions to know how impressive it being monthly fee free is.

Monthly free creep has been very low, UO and EQ1 (and maybe AO, I forget now) were 9.95, the next generation of games jumped up to 14.95 (I think EQ1 then also raised its price since the game cards are all the same, but I've never went back and tried).

While I certainly understand more casual gamers balking at the idea of 15 dollars a month for something they play an hour or 2 a weekend (which honestly is still not that bad of a deal in money per hour for entertainment vs retail games and moviess), but for someone that plays games heavily, I'll never, ever understand the backlash of monthly fees. When I play a MMO heavily, my game buying goes down from like 2-4 retail new release + another handful of xbla/psn/steam sale games per month, to a few digital downloads and maybe the biggest retail game of the month.

If anything, the reason to not play mmos, are the social repercussions of addiction and the possibility of it destroying your time spent and interest in varied other games. I almost never feel I get my moneys worth out of retail games anymore (in a money per hour of gameplay sense atleast) after playing MMOs for 10 years.

 

[Blackface]

IMO player housing and crafting were done the best in SWG. I really miss that game, it was my first MMO. I'm hoping that there will be an expansion for space fighters like Jump To Lightspeed but I'm not holding my breath.

There was a lot wrong in SWG, but no game ever made had nothing as good as it's community/economy and crafting systems. Some of the greatest things ever put into a game IMO.

Big mistake by companies not to copy those aspects and bring them along. Hopefully in the next generation of MMO's we will see it again. They were flat out awesome, and it isn't nostalgia talking. When I first left SWG to play WoW, in terms of community, crafting and economy it felt like a gigantic step backwards.

 

[Squall ASF]

Guild Wars 1 was essentially a slightly larger scale PSO or Diablo, it wasnt the same thing at all. In addition they launched 2 stand alones and 1 expansion in like 2 years to keep revenue flowing, in addition to stuff like buying character slots and music expansions. While eventually most MMOs do get on a yearly expansion cycle, it's usually like 2 years before the first expansion. I loved the game hardcore, but to pretend it was a full featured mmo providing the same kind of content and having the same upkeep costs of a "real" mmo is utterly ridiculous.

We haven't seen nearly enough of Guild Wars 2, know enough about their expansion plans, and know the extent (if any) of in game microtransactions to know how impressive it being monthly fee free is.

Monthly free creep has been very low, UO and EQ1 (and maybe AO, I forget now) were 9.95, the next generation of games jumped up to 14.95 (I think EQ1 then also raised its price since the game cards are all the same, but I've never went back and tried).

While I certainly understand more casual gamers balking at the idea of 15 dollars a month for something they play an hour or 2 a weekend (which honestly is still not that bad of a deal in money per hour for entertainment vs retail games and moviess), but for someone that plays games heavily, I'll never, ever understand the backlash of monthly fees. When I play a MMO heavily, my game buying goes down from like 2-4 retail new release + another handful of xbla/psn/steam sale games per month, to a few digital downloads and maybe the biggest retail game of the month.

If anything, the reason to not play mmos, are the social repercussions of addiction and the possibility of it destroying your time spent and interest in varied other games. I almost never feel I get my moneys worth out of retail games anymore (in a money per hour of gameplay sense atleast) after playing MMOs for 10 years.

Believe me, I understand the concept of getting your value from playing a game enough to justify the costs. That's why I'm getting Halo 3 ODST because despite the game being more of an expansion charged at a full game price, I know I'm going to play the hell out of the online features. But for casual gamers that like the play style of an MMO but don't have the time to spend endless hours on it, it's absurd to pay a monthly fee. It's not an issue for the company because a greater majority of MMO players get fairly addicted to the game and quit playing most other games for at least a while so they get commitment from those players but there will always be people that are driven off by it because of the monthly fee, myself included. I play Guild Wars because it's free to play online, although I also enjoy that it's a lighter dose and wanted to stay the hell away from WOW because it seems to steal lives from people.

I'd also say GW is more comparable than you seem to think. It doesn't matter how 'deep' you think GW is, it still has a crap load of players on their servers and they constantly patch things, make changes, run holiday events, tweak skills, etc etc. So it's very much comparable to other MMO's in terms of maintanence costs. I can tell you right now I'd MUCH rather buy another game the next year that has a full games worth of content to add than to have to pay monthly fees which btw, would add up more than the next game will cost anyway. I'm all for microtransactions because you can choose whether or not you want that feature, it isn't mandatory.

 

[LAUGHTREY]

IMO player housing and crafting were done the best in SWG. I really miss that game, it was my first MMO. I'm hoping that there will be an expansion for space fighters like Jump To Lightspeed but I'm not holding my breath.

I don't know about you but I've watched a lot of videos and I can see a lot of people responsible for the good things in SWG are making their mark in TOC. Hopefully they put in a lot of stuff to make the consumer base of SWG happy as it shouldn't negatively affect the people who don't know any better.




What I want to know is, when is the Beta and how can I get in it?

 

[Blackface]

Believe me, I understand the concept of getting your value from playing a game enough to justify the costs. That's why I'm getting Halo 3 ODST because despite the game being more of an expansion charged at a full game price, I know I'm going to play the hell out of the online features. But for casual gamers that like the play style of an MMO but don't have the time to spend endless hours on it, it's absurd to pay a monthly fee. It's not an issue for the company because a greater majority of MMO players get fairly addicted to the game and quit playing most other games for at least a while so they get commitment from those players but there will always be people that are driven off by it because of the monthly fee, myself included. I play Guild Wars because it's free to play online, although I also enjoy that it's a lighter dose and wanted to stay the hell away from WOW because it seems to steal lives from people.

I'd also say GW is more comparable than you seem to think. It doesn't matter how 'deep' you think GW is, it still has a crap load of players on their servers and they constantly patch things, make changes, run holiday events, tweak skills, etc etc. So it's very much comparable to other MMO's in terms of maintanence costs. I can tell you right now I'd MUCH rather buy another game the next year that has a full games worth of content to add than to have to pay monthly fees which btw, would add up more than the next game will cost anyway. I'm all for microtransactions because you can choose whether or not you want that feature, it isn't mandatory.

Guild Wars had next to no content, and most of it's expansions provided less content then a major content patch in World of Warcraft. Guild Wars is great and all, but it's glaringly obvious why they didn't charge per month.

 

[Blackface]

Sith warrior class info now added.