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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG

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Snow

Member
AdventureRacing said:
Was there any actual demand for this? Seems like a silly change.
A lot of the design decision for how ladder info is presented is designed to keep as many people at different levels playing on the ladder. Lots of psychological tricks to reward activity so that non-hardcore people remain motivated to play and give them a sense of progress. I guess it makes sense when regarded in that context. This blog entry by a guy approached at an early stage to do design on the ladder is an interesting look at Blizzard's thinking on this.


Those new obs overlays look really slick. Also happy they're finally redoing the custom game interface, though it still could be better I think. But so far the custom game interface is probably the least polished in terms of UI in the battle.net interface.
 

Miroku

Member
NeoCross said:
What the fuck? Khaydarin amulet to be removed?

That's a big nerf, Blizz should seriously think this over.


They said they wanted to balance stim and storm with each other somehow, and this is their answer for now. So Terran has to wait an extra 30 seconds for a one time event in a match. Protoss has to wait extra for every Templar they ever warp in for the whole match. Seems fair!
 

Striek

Member
Zerg hasn't had a good answer to terran drops (and thats why you see terrans winning in GSL this season, the zergs just get peeled apart because theres no way to actually beat a small bunch of terran units cost-effectively or supply-effectively if you aren't already in place with a much larger force), and now Protoss will face that too. Horrible decision. You already have a large timing window where you are vulnerable leaving your base as protoss. All that patch will encourage is 2-base all-ins against terran. And theres never going to be a reason to go past a third, your colossus will be hard-countered by then and every push will be weaker than the last.

Oh and EMP remains unchanged. Because a insta 100 damage 10-11 range spell that makes three of protosses most important units basically useless is balanced.

Oh and no change to marines. Which is logical. They aren't the entire focus point of two matchups and a large variety of all-ins in the third based on their sheer cost-effectiveness or anything. They are perfectly fine.

/rant

I don't understand... I feel they haven't done enough to help zerg and they've only made PvT that much harder and probably more stale. Its not even like people were getting high templars then easily winning against terran. Most games with HTs go for ages.

I was really hoping for them to take a look at roach/hydra also. Completely useless against terran making the matchup really stale. Hydras especially, cost-countered by every unit terran can make except landed vikings (which are still supply-effective!).
 

Q8D3vil

Member
i don't mind if they to remove ghost energy as long as they remove the ht one because it will take ghost some time until it reach your army so it will build that needed 25 energy anyway.

to make emp research skill they need to buff his sniper skill or increase his attack damage
 
this patch feels like bullshit. I feel for all protoss players as well as all Zerg players who are tired of being punching bags -- at least the bunker change should bring some relief and make it a little safer to 15 hatch, which is pretty much the strongest build we have.
 

Slavik81

Member
Hurrah. Push Protoss even harder into late-game Colossi.

And nerf rare and difficult strategies like archon toilet. Yeah, mothership was definitely too overpowered. :\

This is the worst potential patch I've seen.
 

ezrarh

Member
It feels like blizzard is just limiting the game as much as possible. Something is too strong?!? Let's just remove it from the game and not have anybody use anything but colossus which is absurdly strong in large numbers. Also see flux vanes and reapers essentially. Getting rid of the viking flower is also stupid. As soon as people start developing cool tricks or add variety, gotta nerf it or remove it before players can figure how to deal with it while completely ignoring the fundamental problems.
 

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
ezrarh said:
Gonna see mothership even less now =(

Seriously, just when people were finally starting to learn how to effectively use them :(. I don't like the storm change but I would accept it if they made EMP a research upgrade.
 

a176

Banned
ezrarh said:
It feels like blizzard is just limiting the game as much as possible. Something is too strong?!? Let's just remove it from the game and not have anybody use anything but colossus which is absurdly strong in large numbers. Also see flux vanes and reapers essentially. Getting rid of the viking flower is also stupid. As soon as people start developing cool tricks or add variety, gotta nerf it or remove it before players can figure how to deal with it while completely ignoring the fundamental problems.

Ghosts still come with free EMP :[
 

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
um guys, FXO have just announced some stuff and I said holy fuck.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=196471

FXOpen e-Sports tournament Ladder is now released. The ladder will be used for us to gauge which players will get an invite to our tournament in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We have not released the prize money as yet, but it will be that of GSL or higher

FXOpen e-Sports talkshow, featuring FXOBOSs, FXOUnstable, FXOWolf and various guests, including some of your Korean favourites!

FXOpen e-Sports TEAM HOUSE. We have found a property, its already owned by our company. It’s a large house just outside of Kuala Lumpur. It is the complete opposite of a Korean team house and is a more comfortable environment.

FXOpen e-Sports, FXOWolf (Caster) joins the ranks.
 

IceMarker

Member
lhTmT.png


Shadow Assault 2 has been updated! This patch adds the final weapon and armor upgrades with some fixes!

- 1.6

-- Added Weapons Level 5 and Armor Level 5 upgrades
-- Decreased effectiveness of Weapons Level 4 upgrade
-- Decreased Dominion Waves head start on Brutal mode
-- Decreased time it takes for the Brutalisk to attack HQ
-- Decreased Ghost Grenade cooldown time from 20 to 15 seconds a grenade
-- Increased interval at which Brutalisk minions spawn
-- Adjusted or removed some warning messages
-- Adjusted Weapons and Armor Level 4 icons
-- Fixed Mine Field Warning not repeating
-- Fixed Shadow Clones triggering the death message
-- Attempted fix of Leaderboard not correctly showing players every game
-- Attempted fix of Mech spawning to attacking from the back door
TeamLiquid Thread
 

syllogism

Member
The fungal changes are pretty interesting as you can time it so you can hit things that are currently out of range but moving towards you. Mutas might also now be viable in ZvZ.
 

twofold

Member
Good news, everyone!

Blizzard has found that Zerg Tier 3 is too powerful!

To fix this egregious error on their part, they made the following change but absentmindedly left it out of the patch notes.

Unlisted change/bug:
Brood lords now cost 300/250 to morph (450/350 each).

Now that I've slept on it; this patch is awful. Blizzard really doesn't have a clue. Tournaments were already T favoured to a ridiculous degree and they're doing nothing to change that.

Hopefully they make additional changes to the game on the PTR else Terrans are going to be even stronger in the next patch.

Edit - Missed that someone else mentioned the Brood Lord cost. I really do hope it's a bug.
 

Meeru

Banned
twofold said:
Good news, everyone!

Blizzard has found that Zerg Tier 3 is too powerful!

To fix this egregious error on their part, they made the following change but absentmindedly left it out of the patch notes.



Now that I've slept on it; this patch is awful. Blizzard really doesn't have a clue. Tournaments were already T favoured to a ridiculous degree and they're doing nothing to change that.

Hopefully they make additional changes to the game on the PTR else Terrans are going to be even stronger in the next patch.

Edit - Missed that someone else mentioned the Brood Lord cost. I really do hope it's a bug.
I respect peoples' opinions, but really, if you are going to degrade Blizzard's attempt at patching, at least state why or put your own thought on how the patching should go. I for one believe blizzard is doing an excellent job.
 

Deadman

Member
# An alert has been added when MULEs expire.

# An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.

# An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.

We fixed that bug where macro took any brains.

Yay for the infestor nerf though, that thing was completely dominating...

And why kill the viking flower? Doesnt make any sense.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Meeru said:
I respect peoples' opinions, but really, if you are going to degrade Blizzard's attempt at patching, at least state why or put your own thought on how the patching should go. I for one believe blizzard is doing an excellent job.

What? Let me guess, you play T.
 

twofold

Member
Meeru said:
I respect peoples' opinions, but really, if you are going to degrade Blizzard's attempt at patching, at least state why or put your own thought on how the patching should go. I for one believe blizzard is doing an excellent job.

I feel like they keep avoiding the fundamental issues and instead focus on changing small things like bunker build times that will matter little.

Take, for example, scouting. Scouting has been a problem since day one, particularly in ZvT. They could have tried a million and one things to improve this aspect of the game, but they don't.

I also feel they need to look at the risk/reward elements of particular strategies, too. Two rax, for example, is an incredibly simple strategy to execute yet it is disproportionately difficult for a Zerg to defend. The slightest mistake will lead to the Zerg losing whereas, if the Terran makes a mistake, it hardly affects them.

Essentially, Terran has a lot more room for error than the other races. It's very easy make a game ending mistake that will lead to a loss as Protoss or Zerg whereas Terrans have a multitude of tools available to them to play catch up.

Finally, I think Blizzard should be more forthcoming in disclosing their thinking behind the changes, too. The Blizzcon balance talk was fantastic because we got to see what they were thinking and have a look at the reasons behind the changes they were making. Would it be too much trouble for them to say "we've changed <blah> to test <blah>"?

Their silence in regards to the reasons behind their patch choices is maddening.

I'd also love to know their reasoning behind the new maps and why they feel it's better for the ladder to be based around them than the GSL/Iccup maps.

The new maps are awful.
 

syllogism

Member
twofold said:
I hadn't seen that.

Thanks.

Their reasoning behind removing Shakura's is absolutely laughable.
Kind of, but I don't think it was a good map. The natural and even third were definitely too easy to defend ZvP as protoss could just turtle until maxed and then move out and it didn't particularly even matter if zerg took the whole map. Tunnel positions were also horrible in both ZvP and ZvT.
 

twofold

Member
syllogism said:
Kind of, but I don't think it was a good map. The natural and even third were definitely too easy to defend ZvP as protoss could just turtle until maxed and then move out and it didn't particularly even matter if zerg took the whole map. Tunnel positions were also horrible in both ZvP and ZvT.

Shakura's isn't perfect, but it's certainly better than Delta Quadrant, Backwater Gulch and Slag pits.

I hope the custom GSL map they're adding in "the coming weeks" is Crevasse - that map seems pretty awesome.
 

fanboi

Banned
hmm, infestors will be extremly good now, esp vs P death ball so thumbs up Blizz! (I assume the missile isn't slow as hell)
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Blizzard are absolutely clueless and I'm starting to worry about the future of the game.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Zerg QQ-er: Hey Blizzard, Blink Stalkers are really awful, I do not know what to do against them!
Blizzard: Do not worry man, Blink is a tier 2 tech. You gotta make sure to get Infestors, for Fungal Growth!
Zerg Happier QQ-er: Ah, I see, so now I fungal them, and they cant move away becau...
*slap in the face*

Yeah. Right.
 

Snow

Member
Apparently fungal isn't caught by pdd and does in fact do the same damage in 4 seconds. Having thought about it, it honestly feels like a pretty huge improvement in the damage dealing capability of infestors.

I watched that Catz stream about the new maps and it seems like they hated pretty much every new map except maybe shattered temple which they were more ambivalent about. Overall I get the sense that Blizzard values variety more where most pros value consistency, especially when reading that shack article.

I think the underlying problem also is that catz and co wanted tournaments to use mappools that aren't the ladder pool and that there isn't an easy way to train on maps that aren't on ladder.
 

Deadman

Member
I wonder if at some point gom or someone else will balance the game by themselves using the editor. The major problem would be that the ladder becomes even less useful for practice and anyone not on a team is cut off from practicing.
 

syllogism

Member
You couldn't get infestors in time for any serious blink stalker push anyway and late game the blink isn't the main problem. It's also going to be harder to blink away when you also have to defend your colossi. They should increase missile speed somewhat though. The damage buff is very significant as once you do catch the stalkers, you can do 266% more damage in 8s against them due to the DPS buff.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Ultrabum said:
I never saw HT... now I never will.
how did you never see HT?

as for the infestor stuff, i would definitely be happier than not with the changes as a zerg.

the speed increase on BCs was definitely needed
 

Ultrabum

Member
-COOLIO- said:
how did you never see HT?

I dunno. All of my toss opponents get colossus instead of High Templar. They are easier to use imo (I used to play toss). I don't think I've even seen a high templar on the ladder in the last 3 months.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
Ultrabum said:
I dunno. All of my toss opponents get colossus instead of High Templar. They are easier to use imo (I used to play toss). I don't think I've even seen a high templar on the ladder in the last 3 months.
are you zerg? i get tons of it against terran infantry
 

Ultrabum

Member
Yes, I am zerg. The most common thing I see is 2 base either sentry expand or cannons.

Then turtle till they have 3 - 4 colossus and 3 - 4 void rays and a bunch of stalkers. They they just attack and if I kill it, I win. If I don't, they win.
 

Deadman

Member
Definitely the best thing about new obs mode is the ability to remove the menu bar. Some of the things are a bit too big on the screen to be in normal use, but the score bar for example is great for casters that arnt photoshop gods to get a good looking ui.
 
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