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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT2| GL HF GG
- Thread starter Corran Horn
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TheThunder
Member
I think Athene is Belgium.
his point was that there's no pararity between the leagues. koreans have already established leagues that while they welcome forgeigners, are extremely difficult and costly to enter.Won said:
allowing those established players into a budding league at absolutely no risk to their own time and money will just see the new leagues filled with the players who already had the time and support to be 'pros' and not actually grow esports.
i have been talking about these leagues with other gaffers and there's a lot more hype about the nasl than there is about gsl. we have gaffers setting up training groups and crushing out matchups because they are setting goals for themselves within these open brackets. eg: 'i want to make it to round of 256 in the nasl this season!'
NASL is seen as something that is actually accessible to the amateur north American player and that is something GSL never was and never needed to be [because of the already established success of starcraft]. if keeping it accessible means upping the barrier for entry for established successful players in other leagues, than that's what needs to be done. if MC wants to win every NASL, i want to see MC in north america, playing the north american ladders and contributing to the growth of the north american skill level.
so yea, catz doesnt want the koreans taking his money and i don't want the koreans taking his money.
building on further points there panda, the main issue I got out of it was yes, all these non korean tournaments are great, but theyre all like you said, not very time consuming. MLG? fly over for a free weekend. NASL? most of it online fly over for a week, dream hack, IEM all of these weekends too.
GSL? plan to be there for over a month.. but you might go home after 1 day.
GSL? plan to be there for over a month.. but you might go home after 1 day.
i don't live in NA or even EU but i totally agree with you and catz.Pandaman said:
also, NASL want to cut corners by inviting relatively weak players like moon and grubby (compared to the other players in their regions) just because they were famous in wc3 and that will bring thousands of fans to watch the NASL.
i don't really like how the system works and i think its pretty unfair to some good NA players (like minigun).
A person I know is organizing a small open tournament with a $5 entry fee and a $150 prize pool. All money from the entry fees will be donated to Child's Play. I already signed up.
Link to the TL thread with information on how to sign up.
Link to the TL thread with information on how to sign up.
there are events where you can see the best people in the world.Ikuu said:
why does the NASL have to be another one? why cant they the up barriers to entry equivalent to those preventing the best in the world from playing in the GSL? [for example, whitera has said he doesnt bother with gsl because its not worth his time to spend months on end in GSL with only 1 real tourney prospect because its korean based]
Why does the NASL have to be for people in the US only? Why does it need to be US only to grow eSports in the US? It seems to me that people see North America in the name and use that as the basis for their arugement, the IGN Pro League looks to be closer to what Catz is after, though with Season 2 it looks like they're going to open it up to the rest of the world.Pandaman said:
Comparing NASL to GSL isn't fair, GSL is an offline tournament that takes place over a few weeks, whereas the NASL is an online group stage with an offline final. As long as people are able to travel to the final then why should it be region locked. If Catz wanted to enter the GSL then I'm sure they would allow him to stay (rent-free) at the GOM House.
THE N.A.S.LIkuu said:
The North American Star league was established to foster the prominence of esports and professional Starcraft 2 play in North America through highly visible organized and invigorating competition.
http://nasl.tv/About
the focus on north america is because north america is lacking in these events. there's nothing on this continent that every starcraft 2 player can say 'thats where i want to be'. frankly we'd probably be better off starting off with an 'evolution' or a 'dreamhack' style event, but the NASL could do the job too.
I agree with many of catz's points. I think when he says that he doesnt want koreans taking "his" money he doesnt mean his specific money, he means money for any westerner. What he wants after the nasl is to point to something and say "that was made possible with nasl money", be it a team house or even just a player being able to quit his job/studies to play sc2 full time. That way nasl will have had a positive effect on esports in the west.
If a korean were to win there would be no/not as big of a benefit. Most likely a person returns to his existing team house full of full time players but with more money in his pocket.
However i think that nasl has already limited the number of koreans in order to boost the chances of western players. There are only 10 of them in the tournament whereas it would probably be 30+ if it was entirely on merit. At the end of the day they are still a business who wants as many people to watch as possible, so they do need some big names to draw in the crowds.
If a korean were to win there would be no/not as big of a benefit. Most likely a person returns to his existing team house full of full time players but with more money in his pocket.
However i think that nasl has already limited the number of koreans in order to boost the chances of western players. There are only 10 of them in the tournament whereas it would probably be 30+ if it was entirely on merit. At the end of the day they are still a business who wants as many people to watch as possible, so they do need some big names to draw in the crowds.
Mairu said:
They're not saying it has to be for NA players only, catZ even says he welcomes the koreans.
What he they and we are saying is that it would be nice if there was a little more required out of people involved, ie being in America for more than a week or so, so that people that are more dedicated / commited to the non korean scene can help eachother get better / the scene get better, which wont happen if the Koreans can just do it all online and win, because it wont encourage the local scene to get better if there is no real obtainable goal.
Deadman said:
Let's be realistic here. NASL would hand 5k$ to the winner instead of 50k$, if it tried to be whatever, some think it should be.
It's North America's big money thing for players from all over the world. If it's a success, then there will be stuff like amatuer leagues or something that is more focused on NA and more money will flow in that direction.
Esport isn't gonna grow with goodwill alone.
TheThunder
Member
Because the tournament organizers want it that way + Making it US only will not make US esports grow faster than making it the best and most popular players in the world.Pandaman said:
TerryWogan
Member
I hate this game sometimes. Over the last week I've won 12 1v1 ladder games in a row. I won another tonight and then the matchmaking decided to mix things up for me and drop me in with a marine rusher, a 6pooler and another marine rusher. Lost all three 
Ikuu said:
On the other hand, there is no sport in the world where there are no NATIONAL tournaments.
You do not see Barcelona entering the English soccer league and taking wins - there is no point in that. Estabilishing an NA league without others being able to enter is GOOD for player growth.
TerryWogan said:I hate this game sometimes. Over the last week I've won 12 1v1 ladder games in a row. I won another tonight and then the matchmaking decided to mix things up for me and drop me in with a marine rusher, a 6pooler and another marine rusher. Lost all three
Didn't scout in time?
so you hate the game because you're 12:3?TerryWogan said:I hate this game sometimes. Over the last week I've won 12 1v1 ladder games in a row. I won another tonight and then the matchmaking decided to mix things up for me and drop me in with a marine rusher, a 6pooler and another marine rusher. Lost all three
i wish i was 12:3
Haunted
Member
Good thing the IPL is NA only, MLG Dallas had like.. 15 non-NA players in a field of 272 and even the most international of the big NA events, the NASL, is NA dominated (well, for now.V_Arnold said:
). IPL and MLG are both high profile, high money tournaments, plenty enough to foster local pro talent without any need of excluding other continents.
And then you add the numerous smaller events, LANs, leagues and tournaments that are taking place all the time and the NA amateur scene is looking as healthy as any other.
Exactly. You don't see any foreigners playing in the Premier League. It's all English players, all the time.V_Arnold said:
wait what
Terrible comparison.
Seriously, though. NA is the weakest of the three servers, but the top pros are constantly getting tested against the best of the world in online events and now the NASL as well. Money is getting poured into the scene, things are happening.
Pandaman said:
Fuck me too, I was like 20:60 then just gave up on playing
edit: what is IPL.. because I don't think you're talking about the Indian Premier League..
VVVVV of course, I dont think they should use the IPL as their naming thingy.. it's not like the Indian Premier League isnt fucking massive..
Haunted
Member
TerryWogan
Member
zlatko said:
The main problem was that all three games were on maps with extremely wide ramps - for the Terran games I literally couldn't get enough Sentries out in time to effectively block the ramp long enough to build more units to take care of the marines, and in the Zerg game I only had half a wall-off by the time his Zergling group arrived!
Has anybody got any advice for playing Protoss on these maps with extra wide ramps when you're facing early aggression?
Pandaman said:
A good way of looking at it! I was mainly annoyed because I spectacularly ended my streak!
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
Huh.......HUH....huh.... You do realize the people in these leagues are from everywhere in the world?V_Arnold said:
People complaining that the NASL should be NA players only is dumb (for lack of a smart word). Limiting the players is a horrible idea. Blame NASL for having a stupid invite system so where players dont really qualify for their spots.
TerryWogan said:
Well if you scout a 6 pool. Stop making probes since he's on 7 drones. Quickly fully wall off with whatever buildings.(Make sure one is a forge) Build a cannon as soon as you can.
The only way you SHOULD lose to a 6 pool, wide ramp or not, is if you scout it way too late, or if it's on a map with 4 spawn locations, you scout his base last, and he just randomly goes to yours first on blind luck.
As for Terran early aggression. You shouldn't be walling off anyways. If you scout it early enough, and it's just pure marines, 1 cannon can save you, pull probes if you have to to get a surround, and chrono boost out warp tech ASAP.
invitationals to the same old faces everyone knows doesnt foster the growth of new players and the sheer size of the north American continent makes completely in person events like mlg/gsl untenable for most.Haunted said:Good thing the IPL is NA only, MLG Dallas had like.. 15 non-NA players in a field of 272 and even the most international of the big NA events, the NASL, is NA dominated (well, for now.
IPL and MLG are bot high profile, high money tournaments, plenty enough to foster local talent without any need of excluding other continents.
it'd be like telling someone in moscow to go to the gsl for his starcrafting because he's in asia.
making our top 10 of 12 better doesnt expand the scene, we're still stuck with 12 players. thats the problem with invitationals and events based around the current playerbase.
Corran Horn said:
I do realize that, luckily football is not an 1v1 sport.
Point is: you register a club to compete in the English/Deutsch/whatever league, and then you play in that league, and not everywhere at once. There are CUPS like BL/UEFA (damn, do they exist still? Last time I watched this, they did
), but that is exactly for international club competition. We could really nitpick this one also, instead of admitting that in addition to any international league/cup, there IS a huge benefit of having a national 1v1 league also.
TerryWogan
Member
zlatko said:
Cheers. I don't wall off against T - I tend to get out a few sentries and then a Stalker/Zealot to take care of marines that I split off. I definitely need to scout the 6pool a little earlier then I reckon!
Many national professional sport leagues outside the US impose limits on foreign players. The reason being that without such limits, the entire league would be dominated by those players. Baseball in Japan is one such example.Corran Horn said:
While I don't think it should be North American-only, I think there should be a significant number of slots guaranteed to go to North Americans. There'd be little point in a NASL if most or all the players in it were Korean. Unlike a physical sport, there's little value in seeing it live, so just the physical location of the event is not particularly important.
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