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[Ronok]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but does anyone know of anywhere I can pick up the game for < £30? Amazon.co.uk is getting close, but I find it hard to justify the purchase of a game I struggle so much playing. :lol
I love watching the games, and I'd love to get good, but it's going to take a ton of work. ^^:

 

[Pandaman]

Why can't you let me spew nonsense about SC II panda :[

i need an excuse to post, duh. >___> gotta protect my #1 spot. you rather me post my moe~ starcraft collection?

I say opening build orders because to me a build order entails getting the timings correct, thus building solid fundamentals. e.g.

Workers all the time
Enough production facilities to pump units
Tech timing
Adding on more production facilities to account for workers
Getting a feel for when to build supply structures, etc.

but then 'build order' just becomes a catch all term for being good, so thats a pretty daunting place to start.

-

i personally feel that its better to work on fundamentals in a vacuum so that you don't run the risk of just utterly fall apart because the wiki didn't say what to do after 9 minutes when your 4warpgate fails. I also think this helps people evaluate the type of build they'll want to do as more advanced technical builds would be in your paygrade rather than just stuff like 4gates, 5RR, MMM, etc.

ie: a protoss player who can macro but feels he just wants to do alot more stuff, could seriously look at phoenix play that would otherwise doom a player fresh off the boat.

I mention iccup because he talked about SC:BW. A D+ on iccup had to manage fundamentals and 3x the work as SC II. I was talking about this earlier so I just brought it up here, that's all. "Easily diamond" is a reach though.

well yea, its 3x the work, but to what purpose? alot of the mechanical skill advantages players had in broodwar were streamlined by the starcraft 2 game engine. in BW, grouping and moving large groups at the same time and getting them all in one place safely was hard, but infinite control group sizes make that alot easier without anywhere else for all that apm to go. same with smart casting and smart targeting. the only real advantage a brood war player will have is in queen/mule/chrono because they're used to not being able to rally to minerals and constantly returning to the mineral lines to reorder workers.

even shadier stuff like push and rush timings are owned by the fact there's a fricken clock in the corner. [<3 you clockie]. all the small detail stuff that separated iccup players just aren't as important because there isn't enough stuff to justify it and the metagame is not really comparable.

 

[HolyCheck]

listening to the latest State of the Game! our boy slashers on there! :lol

 

[syllogism]

Also huk and idra

http://www.complexitygaming.com/sotg/SotG - 10.16.10 - Minicast.mp3

e: haha not too impressed by SelecT. Saying exactly what I was saying.

 

[slidewinder]

^ This is great. If you followed MLG DC you definitely want to listen to this.

 

[syllogism]

^ This is great. If you followed MLG DC you definitely want to listen to this.

All state of the game podcasts are great and mostly have the same cast

 

[HolyCheck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9NMWFaNxM <-- just to further excite people for state of the game!

 

[Feep]

Wow, Supernova (even on Hard) was crazy difficult. That might be the one that holds me back from a Brutal playthrough.

Yeah, I don't play single player much.

 

[Morbid Angel]

Dropped three times in a row but my internet connection works properly. Thanks a lot EU Battle.net!

 

[Snow]

I need help learning to play versus. I used to play StarCraft at LAN parties all the time. I destroyed my friends, and never broke a sweat. I never worried about perfecting build orders, never put to much thought to managing my population and making the best use of my resources. I relied on my micro and quick thinking. I knew which units worked well in specific situations, and I just winged it.

I just got StarCraft 2 a few days ago. I've played 3 practice matches (the really slow ones that you get 50 of when you start the game). I won two, and lost one. For someone who has had a lot of experience with StarCraft, this is INCREDIBLY disappointing. I've been trying to brush up with medium computers, and while I've never lost, I consistently beat the computer by a tiny margin. I don't have a chance in hell playing competitive online right now, but I would absolutely love to learn.

Are there any resources for learning to play like the pros? Descriptions of why certain decisions are made, dos and don'ts of competitive play, and general strategy overview?

Don't worry too much about. Might be that your friends just weren't that good, but that doesn't invalidate the fun you had with them. The fact that you say you relied on micro and quick thinking rather than managing your economy and that you're having trouble with the medium AI makes me think you should just focus on three things for now:

• Constantly build workers
• Spend your money
• don't get supply blocked

That's enough to win against medium AI without any trouble. Because, and here's a little secret, the medium AI stops building workers when it has 15 of them. If you just manage to get more workers than him, and convert all of the income the AI doesn't have into army units, you're going to win. It doesn't matter how well you micro or what your unit composition is at that point, you're going to win easily by just attack-moving all of your units into his base just because you have way more stuff.

The first Day[9] Daily - Newbie Tuesday focused on this topic, so that might be worth a look.

 

[Concept17]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9NMWFaNxM <-- just to further excite people for state of the game!

Do they really not like Artosis or just enjoy joking around?

Personally I enjoy Artosis commentating/casting far more than anyone else.

 

[HolyCheck]

Do they really not like Artosis or just enjoy joking around?

Personally I enjoy Artosis commentating/casting far more than anyone else.

lol yeah, InControl is a bit of a jerk like that but only to people like Artosis who he is good friends with (so he's just messing around)

 

[GhostRidah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9NMWFaNxM <-- just to further excite people for state of the game!

:lol Incontrol is great

 

[Volodja]

Do they really not like Artosis or just enjoy joking around?

Personally I enjoy Artosis commentating/casting far more than anyone else.

The majority of these people have known each other for years (Artosis included).
If you listen to the other Sotg podcasts you'll see that Artosis comes up veeery often in jokes and when he is on the show him and iNcontrol spend a lot of time time poking at each other, it's all in good fun.

Anyway that minicast was probably the most hilarious Sotg yet, and as far as I'm concerned that's saying a lot.

 

[h0pper]

lol yeah, InControl is a bit of a jerk like that but only to people like Artosis who he is good friends with (so he's just messing around)

:lol well I hope none of my friends refer to me as a vulture toad who eats shit.. or the grass that everyone walks on.

 

[BrassMonkey1010]

Oh yeaaa, im dominating my silver division now. Next step = GSL 3 champion.

Spoiler

lol

 

[HolyCheck]

The Daily State of the Weapon on Three is delayed currently due to meetings. Not sure when or if we'll be going live. We'll get it recorded though regardless.

=[

 

[JoeFu]

Also huk and idra

http://www.complexitygaming.com/sotg/SotG - 10.16.10 - Minicast.mp3

e: haha not too impressed by SelecT. Saying exactly what I was saying.

Is there another mirror for the minicast? It keeps timing out for me, I want to listen to it!

 

[DaFish]

Is there another mirror for the minicast? It keeps timing out for me, I want to listen to it!

I think SotG is on Itunes

 

[syllogism]

Is there another mirror for the minicast? It keeps timing out for me, I want to listen to it!

http://www.mediafire.com/?slbz0epeviwvolu

 

[JoeFu]

http://www.mediafire.com/?slbz0epeviwvolu

Awesome, thank you! I didn't want to get itunes.

 

[zoukka]

alwaysgoroaches

 

[Aylinato]

alwaysgoroaches

lol, the insane AI (the 7 FFA) went all roaches against my void rays, since I was going for the achievement, almost killed me, except my void rays are in the air(lol)

 

[HolyCheck]

Live on Three, starting in 0 days 1 hours and 40 minutes.

This is killng me lol :lol I decided to stay up for it for when it was going to be on.. like 3 hours ago.. then it got moved to 20 minutes ago so I thought it's ok 4:30am isn't too late.. I had a little nap.. now i'm wide awake and will liekly wwait for it at 6:30am ;_;

edit! it's live! well theres a blue screen for me to look at.

edit: talking!

 

[jersoc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9NMWFaNxM <-- just to further excite people for state of the game!

that is hilarious.:lol

 

[HolyCheck]

woo streams up, no video, but it's hilarious (and gaf got a shout out )

 

[Deadman]

Are they recording it to release later? I joined half way through.

 

[HolyCheck]

Are they recording it to release later? I joined half way through.

yeah!

but like 5 minutes in you heard djwheat muttering underhis breath "oh shit i forgot to hit record"

but the rest of it will be there, lol's a plenty

 

[TheThunder]

Played about 10 matches today. Started with a loss then 3 minuets into the second match there is a power outage in my neighborhood so that was a lame loss, but I win 7 out of the 8 games after the power came back and the one that I lost was a ZvZ.

I'm still using speedling/muta in all of my match ups (although the build order changes in zvz) but I really want to give Roachs a shot, at least against Protoss. The only problem is that I'm really familiar with my current BO and when to produce stuff that I feel if I switch to roachs my timings will be really off.

 

[TheExodu5]

Where can I grab the replays for MLG DC?

 

[Jokab]

Where can I grab the replays for MLG DC?

http://www.mlgpro.com/ci/brackets/procircuit/10/dc/sc2/open

 

[Corran Horn]

So any SC2 gaffers going to Blizzcon this year? Ill be there

I want to experiment with that 15 Fast expo with PvZ, see if its still good with roach buff

 

[Hazaro]

So any SC2 gaffers going to Blizzcon this year? Ill be there

I want to experiment with that 15 Fast expo with PvZ, see if its still good with roach buff

1 gate FE vs P or Z should be something a lot of people should consider.

I'd love to 14CC vs Terran but if they go rax + early stim I get face stomped, then you have to worry about early tank push, drops, hellions, and banshees :[

 

[Corran Horn]

1 gate FE vs P or Z should be something a lot of people should consider.

I'd love to 14CC vs Terran but if they go rax + early stim I get face stomped, then you have to worry about early tank push, drops, hellions, and banshees :[

Its interesting what I see. Its basically expo first before anything then get forge/cannons.


I been doing 4v4s lately...went from bronze to gold. Now just went from gold to platinum with only a few games :lol

 

[Feep]

I've always been a bit confused on something.

Why would Fast Expand help your economy significantly if you aren't saturated at your main? A probe is going to get the same amount of minerals regardless. I guess for Zerg it helps with production as well, but I feel like I'm missing something, here. Is it to build workers twice as fast?

 

[Corran Horn]

I've always been a bit confused on something.

Why would Fast Expand help your economy significantly if you aren't saturated at your main? A probe is going to get the same amount of minerals regardless. I guess for Zerg it helps with production as well, but I feel like I'm missing something, here. Is it to build workers twice as fast?

Build more workers faster. Less mineral conflicts of workers moving around. And you can have a quicker midgame.

 

[Feep]

Build more workers faster. Less mineral conflicts of workers moving around. And you can have a quicker midgame.

K, thanks.

I would love to see a graph of the amount of workers at a single base to the income off of that base. Does it slowly decelerate after 8? At 24, does it become a flat cliff or does it still slowly climb, with incredibly diminished returns? (Disregarding gas)

 

[Haunted]

I've always been a bit confused on something.

Why would Fast Expand help your economy significantly if you aren't saturated at your main? A probe is going to get the same amount of minerals regardless. I guess for Zerg it helps with production as well, but I feel like I'm missing something, here. Is it to build workers twice as fast?

Exactly. Even with the initial mineral hit, you'll get to full saturation much faster from two buildings.


edit: beaten like Select vs Idra.

 

[Corran Horn]

K, thanks.

I would love to see a graph of the amount of workers at a single base to the income off of that base. Does it slowly decelerate after 8? At 24, does it become a flat cliff or does it still slowly climb, with incredibly diminished returns? (Disregarding gas)

After 24ish you dont see much, if any, extra returns. But its always good to have extras for transferring to expansions and if any harassment.

 

[V_Arnold]

I've always been a bit confused on something.

Why would Fast Expand help your economy significantly if you aren't saturated at your main? A probe is going to get the same amount of minerals regardless. I guess for Zerg it helps with production as well, but I feel like I'm missing something, here. Is it to build workers twice as fast?

Not to mention that after 2 workers / mineral, the 3rd only brings half the amount / minute, so 2*16 workers on minerals > 1*24 workers on minerals. And fast expand's most important aspect is that you double your gas production, so you can produce enough gas'heavy units.

 

[spoon!]

K, thanks.

I would love to see a graph of the amount of workers at a single base to the income off of that base. Does it slowly decelerate after 8? At 24, does it become a flat cliff or does it still slowly climb, with incredibly diminished returns? (Disregarding gas)

I vaguely remember ZealousD or someone else doing testing over mining rates, hidden in the old OT somewhere. IIRC he concluded that 2 miners per patch is optimal. 3 miners per patch still works, and gathers more than 2 per patch, but is less efficient. 4 miners per patch you get no gains.

 

[Haunted]

Not to mention that after 2 workers / mineral, the 3rd only brings half the amount / minute, so 2*16 workers on minerals > 1*24 workers on minerals. And fast expand's most important aspect is that you double your gas production, so you can produce enough gas'heavy units.

32 workers are more effective than 24 workers? Get outta here!

Spoiler

 

[Vaporak]

Lol, just ran into Panda on the ladder, GG's man.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Lol, just ran into Panda on the ladder, GG's man.

wow. the odds of that are sliiim

 

[Pandaman]

wow. the odds of that are sliiim

not when you're pro like the 2 of us.

gg's vaporak, you ended my winstreak.

you're phoenixes just scare the hell out of me, even when you only make a few the threat of them just shut down my play because i know what you could do with only a few chronos. -.-

 

[Vaporak]

not when you're pro like the 2 of us.

gg's vaporak, you ended my winstreak.

you're phoenixes just scare the hell out of me, even when you only make a few the threat of them just shut down my play because i know what you could do with only a few chronos. -.-

I only make them because I'm scared shitless of mutas!

 

[Pandaman]

I only make them because I'm scared shitless of mutas!

oh come on, all mutas do is kill supply and workers, phoenix vs zerg is far more op because it snipes drones and ovies.

 

[Vaporak]

oh come on, all mutas do is kill supply and workers, phoenix vs zerg is far more op because it snipes drones and ovies.

Pheonix's can hardly kill workers because gravity beam takes so much energy. The real target are those juicy juicy queens and ovies.

 

[Pandaman]

i hate mules.

 

[Mystery]

Pheonix's can hardly kill workers because gravity beam takes so much energy. The real target are those juicy juicy queens and ovies.

You need 3 to kill a queen. Grab a worker out of each gas before your third Phoenix pops. There's a good chance the zerg won't realize he'll be getting 33% less gas than he should.