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[Q8D3vil]

edit: you know what, FORGET IT.

edit 2: by the Gods, READ next time.

lets not blame him. most zerg don't know what micro mean.

 

[Pancakes]

cakes?

I would love some.

 

[V_Arnold]

Sorry Panda, I stopped reading your post here. Glad to see you're just like all other dumb zergs.

Uhm... mmmkay?

 

[Pandaman]

edit: you know what, FORGET IT.

edit 2: by the Gods, READ next time.

i'd ask you to learn to read, but its probably tough with a cracked monitor.

so i'll repeat it again with spaces so you'll notice why what you said is retarded.

the only zerg unit that's cost efficient

notice i didn't say marines could be costefficient vs infestors.
i said infestors are cost efficient vs marines.
i know you terrans have trouble understanding the concept of marines losing fights and want to desperately 'micro' and overcome everything, but sorry bro that's not how it works.

 

[Yoshichan]

Uhm... mmmkay?

I edited my post like four times. Deal with it.

so i'll repeat it again with spaces so you'll notice why what you said is retarded.

HOLY FUCK, READ!

Micro against infestors... yeah, when their fungal range gets nerfed to 2. Maybe at that point I'll be able to aggressively split towards them...

If you still don't know what I meant... MICRO WITH MARINES AGAINST INFESTORS IS THE DUMBEST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO. I DID NOT ENCOURAGE MICRO AGAINST INFESTORS.

God damn, go and do some intense droning macro or something. Where you and other Z belong.

lets not blame him. most zerg don't know what micro mean.

Most zerg just stops reading as soon as they notice the poster is from a terran.

 

[V_Arnold]

I edited my post like four times. Deal with it.

Fine by me. I am not a dumb zerg anymore, after all.

Spoiler

I am dumb terran now

 

[Haunted]

And here I thought the Zerg QQ had finally stopped.

 

[Yoshichan]

Fine by me. I am not a dumb zerg anymore, after all.

Spoiler

I am dumb terran now

Wow, this is huge. When did this happen, sir?

 

[Deadman]

just make nydus worms and attack in multiple places. never face the infestors head on. of course you cant win if you let zerg get to 200/200.

Spoiler

i play protoss now

 

[Dooraven]

I'm just glad that SCII GAF is no longer Zerg GAF.

 

[a176]

Micro against infestors... yeah, when their fungal range gets nerfed to 2. Maybe at that point I'll be able to aggressively split towards them...

I would enjoy watching yoshi try to play bw

 

[Holden]

i agree with panda, terran get to many marines and not enough ghost. Cause infestor are the HARD counter to marines. But i do think infestor can counter to many units / can do to many things. And i don't want them to nerf fungal, since it punishes mass marines -_-

Spoiler

infested terran is the imba!

 

[Pandaman]

HOLY FUCK, READ!

If you still don't know what I meant... MICRO WITH MARINES AGAINST INFESTORS IS THE DUMBEST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO. I DID NOT ENCOURAGE MICRO AGAINST INFESTORS.

God damn, go and do some intense droning macro or something. Where you and other Z belong.

MY POINT WAS THAT YOU SHOULDN'T EVER BE ABLE TO MICRO VS INFESTORS. As in, no patch, nothing, ever should ever make marines equivalent with infestors. ever. Which means your smartass comment was either as worthless as you are [saying 'you're right but im mad about it'] or a suggestion that infestors should be changed to make marine micro more viable [retarded].

 

[hamchan]

As a Terran I agree that marines should die to infestors even with micro, it's supposed to be a counter after all.

 

[V_Arnold]

Wow, this is huge. When did this happen, sir?

When I realized that Infestor is so dumb that it actually makes ZVZ pointless.

 

[Q8D3vil]

i think there is a huge misunderstanding in this argument.
everyone agreeing that marine should die to infestors but saying infestor is the only cost effective unit against marine is retarded.

 

[fanboi]

Plainly, Marines shouldn't be viable in any sense against infestors.

Just stop building them.

i think there is a huge misunderstanding in this argument.
everyone agreeing that marine should die to infestors but saying infestor is the only cost effective unit against marine is retarded.

Late game they are the only one that is hard counter imo... since banes die so bloody fast vs tanks.

 

[Holden]

i think there is a huge misunderstanding in this argument.
everyone agreeing that marine should die to infestors but saying infestor is the only cost effective unit against marine is retarded.

if you know how to land 2 emp, infestors are worthless.

 

[Pandaman]

i think there is a huge misunderstanding in this argument.
everyone agreeing that marine should die to infestors but saying infestor is the only cost effective unit against marine is retarded.

name another.

 

[Q8D3vil]

if you know how to land 2 emp, infestors are worthless.

2 emps are not enough to counter mass infestors.

 

[Holden]

name another.

zerg doesn't have any cost efficient unit, cause you can make 7 units out of 1 hatchery. And they are cheaper units -____-

2 emps are not enough to counter mass infestors.

then emp more? if he has like 15 infestors, you're not gonna build 2 fucking ghost u need atleast 5-7

 

[V_Arnold]

name another.

Devil is a firm believer of baneling being cost effective against marines. Which is, imho bullshit as you just do not engage only marines vs only banes, just ONE siege tank there makes it more than unfair.

 

[fanboi]

We can break it down into timeline of a normal game:

Early game:
Banes (They are GOOD!)

Mid-game:
Banes (they are only good in certain situation and depending on tech from T)
Infestors (SUPER GREAT)

Late-game:
Banes (Not so good... die so fast vs mass tanks)
Infestors (You need this fucker or GG).

 

[AdventureRacing]

We can break it down into timeline of a normal game:

Early game:
Banes (They are GOOD!)

Mid-game:
Banes (they are only good in certain situation and depending on tech from T)
Infestors (SUPER GREAT)

Late-game:
Banes (Not so good... die so fast vs mass tanks)
Infestors (You need this fucker or GG).

Banes are only decent early game if they are on creep (or busting a wall ). Off creep they are useless until you can get lair + bane speed and even then it's not long till you are facing a decent number of tanks.

Personally i think banes aren't all that good against terran. I wouldn't be surprised to see them used less and less and just basically being replaced by fungal.

It's funny how banelings seem much more useful against protoss now.

 

[Q8D3vil]

name another.

early game (marines without stim)= roaches, banelings.
midgame (marines with stim and medivac)= zerglings + speed banelings ( you have to get a sorround).
late game (33 marines with medivacs) = 53 ultralisks.

i think my argument stand as naked marine.
you can't say marine can't be countered and then say i meant marine tank medivac combo.

 

[ksan]

The reason why banelings are good because it forces marines to move making them not do damage; which is good when you're chasing them with mutas!

 

[fanboi]

early game (marines without stim)= roaches, banelings.
midgame (marines with stim and medivac)= zerglings + speed banelings ( you have to get a sorround).
late game (33 marines with medivacs) = 53 ultralisks.

i think my argument stand as naked marine.
you can't say marine can't be countered and then say i meant marine tank medivac combo.

So you only build marines then?

 

[Q8D3vil]

So you only build marines then?

he said fucking marines.
unless tanks and medivac comes free with marines his argument is retarded because he said marines only.

 

[TheThunder]

The korean ones are the most insane tournament


"24 players will qualify out of 24 groups of 6/7 people (Single Elimination Bo3)

Group 19 what the FUCK !!

Also only one of Losira, Ryung or Jakji can make it as well.

God Korea's WCG qualifier makes everyone's else looks like the kidde pool, and that's even without the top 8 GSL heavy hitters.

 

[V_Arnold]

he said fucking marines.
unless tanks and medivac comes free with marines his argument is retarded because he said marines only.

Rather marines are free with the amount of excess minerals that every T has.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Rather marines are free with the amount of excess minerals that every T has.

talk about bad macro.

 

[V_Arnold]

talk about bad macro.

Oh my god.

 

[Yoshichan]

After reading Pandas post, I really want to go and kill myself. But that way, I'd make GAF a favor.

God bless SCII.

 

[pieatorium]

sif, i'm sure pie and bbyybb will join if theyre not too busy watching sc2 lol (CHALLENGE THROWN)

was working sorry

 

[HolyCheck]

was working sorry

its k, my nets fucked itself again, i think ham and legend are on, but boxer vs yellow starts in like 20 mins so ehhhhhhhhhh

 

[Pandaman]

early game (marines without stim)= roaches, banelings.
midgame (marines with stim and medivac)= zerglings + speed banelings ( you have to get a sorround).
late game (33 marines with medivacs) = 53 ultralisks.

i think my argument stand as naked marine.
you can't say marine can't be countered and then say i meant marine tank medivac combo.

none of those are cost effective.
also why are you allowed to mix zerg unit comps, but we cant add in a seige tank? thats kind of disingenuous.

typically, cost efficiency is way in favour of the marine. absurdly even. even when you max supply to test supply efficiency, marines beat everything but broodlords and infestor.

200 marine 10,000
400 crackling 10,000
result: marines win

200 marine 10,000
400 baneling 20,000 10,000
result: no consistent result. [entirely marine micro dependent]

200 marines 10,000
vs 100 roaches 7,500/2,500
result: marines win

200 marines 10,000
vs 100 hydralisks 10,000/5,000
result: marines win.[no micro]

200 marine 10,000
vs 100 mutalisk 10,000/10,000
result: marines win

200 marine vs 100 corruptor
result -.-

200 marine 10,000
vs 50 broodlords 15,000/12,500
result: marines lose. 8 dead broods. [2,400/2000]

200 marines 10,000 minerals.
vs 33 ultralisks
result:
ultralisks win, 19 dead ultras. [no micro]
19 X 300/200 5700/3800

remember, these are supply efficiency comparisons with natural built in cost discrepancies, and yet marines still rule the zerg relatively unchallenged. so when people say that infestors are insanely cost effective, in comparison to the rest of their race that is true. but they arent huge outliers accross races.

basically, don't throw stones in glass houses. if there is a problem with a matchup, cost efficiency is rarely it. zergs do win games vs terrans despite the marine [even terrans that go pure marine], so talking about efficiency isn't actually that meaningful to the actual game.

 

[Awesome Animals]

lol. Do I need to remind you that master EU is like top 5 GM in US? Paying money to own scrubs isn't something I'd call 'worth it'.

This is, like, two pages old, but I'm not suggesting you get it to ladder on US. If you are bored, you can have fun and fuck around with us on NA. I mean, if you can easily replace keyboards, a $60 key seems economical.

 

[WedgeX]

What the shit is going on in here.

 

[Won]

What the shit is going on in here.

Business as usual?

 

[Awesome Animals]

What the shit is going on in here.

SCIIGAF is falling apart without me on.

 

[Myke Greywolf]

Hi, SC2GAF!

I just installed the starter edition; Are there any kind, understanding european SC2GAFfers willing to break me into the game tonight?

Please be gentle.

 

[Hazaro]

Hey guys lets throw numbers at shit that doesn't really apply in the normal flow of a game.

 

[TheThunder]

Business as usual?

pretty much

 

[Pandaman]

Hi, SC2GAF!

I just installed the starter edition; Are there any kind, understanding european SC2GAFfers willing to break me into the game tonight?

Please be gentle.

i was under the impression the starter was region free NA server.

Hey guys lets throw numbers at shit that doesn't really apply in the normal flow of a game.

another terran who can't read.

 

[Myke Greywolf]

i was under the impression the starter was region free NA server.

I really don't know. Just presume I'm clueless.

 

[Hazaro]

another terran who can't read.

I don't need to read. I only have to press a and b.

I almost want to ladder.

 

[Pandaman]

I don't need to read. I only have to press a and b.

I almost want to ladder.

i laddered yesterday.
once.

it was enough. >_>

 

[Holden]

I don't need to read. I only have to press 1, a and t

I almost want to ladder.

fixed

 

[Awesome Animals]

i was under the impression the starter was region free NA server.


another terran who can't read.

I can read!

Spoiler

But I can't comprehend what is going on

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Lots of numbers.

Are you telling me that when Marines are out that the only way to use Mutas is to fight them head on? You can essentially make Marines stay home because they can't keep up with Mutas and as soon as they push out, their base gets harassed. So yeah, Mutas aren't a hard counter to Marines, but you rarely engage Marines head on unless you're dumb. Don't compare their cost efficiency straight up because they don't go at each othe directly in the game.

Banelings aren't meant to just roll into Marines alone either. They come in and absolutely massacre Marines while they're engaging Zerglings, Mutas, or something else. Used this way they are extremely cost efficient against Marines because one of them can kill like 5-6 Marines and it forces them to run away (while faster Speedlings get a better surround) or else they melt. Never mind the fact that you can burrow them in chokes and take out huge packs of Marines unless they're constantly scanning or bringing a Raven around.

Infestors are the hard counter. We all know that.

Brood Lords? They'll absolutely ruin a Marine ball unless Vikings are present. Broodlings surround the Marines and they can't move forward. Head to head, Brood Lords are most definitely a hard counter to Marines.

Marines aren't that scary.

On the other hand, just as Banelings are extremely dangerous in a mix, so are Marines when used with other units. Thors are pretty mean, but they're horrible without Marine support. With Marines, they can avoid getting surrounded and aren't in danger of being magic boxed.

Marines by themselves are extremely fragile. They need to stim to avoid Banelings, have to outright avoid Infestors/Brood Lords, and need to only engage Roaches in superior numbers and with a good spread.

The point is, rarely do these units engage without being part of a composition unless it's some sort of rush or bad play. But to say that Infestors are the only hard counter to Marines is crazy talk just as it's crazy to say that Infestors don't have their hard counters (Ghosts/HTs).