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//: StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty |OT3| GL HF NO GG

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P

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
TheThunder said:
pretty much
Click to expand...

Remember that cycle I mentioned?

We'll be back to ponies and E-sports drama in no time.
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Jeff-DSA said:
Are you telling me that when Marines are out that the only way to use Mutas is to fight them head on? You can essentially make Marines stay home because they can't keep up with Mutas and as soon as they push out, their base gets harassed. So yeah, Mutas aren't a hard counter to Marines, but you rarely engage Marines head on unless you're dumb. Don't compare their cost efficiency straight up because they don't go at each othe directly in the game.

Banelings aren't meant to just roll into Marines alone either. They come in and absolutely massacre Marines while they're engaging Zerglings, Mutas, or something else. Used this way they are extremely cost efficient against Marines because one of them can kill like 5-6 Marines and it forces them to run away (while faster Speedlings get a better surround) or else they melt. Never mind the fact that you can burrow them in chokes and take out huge packs of Marines unless they're constantly scanning or bringing a Raven around.

Infestors are the hard counter. We all know that.

Brood Lords? They'll absolutely ruin a Marine ball unless Vikings are present. Broodlings surround the Marines and they can't move forward. Head to head, Brood Lords are most definitely a hard counter to Marines.

Marines aren't that scary.

On the other hand, just as Banelings are extremely dangerous in a mix, so are Marines when used with other units. Thors are pretty mean, but they're horrible without Marine support. With Marines, they can avoid getting surrounded and aren't in danger of being magic boxed.

Marines by themselves are extremely fragile. They need to stim to avoid Banelings, have to outright avoid Infestors/Brood Lords, and need to only engage Roaches in superior numbers and with a good spread.

The point is, rarely do these units engage without being part of a composition unless it's some sort of rush or bad play. But to say that Infestors are the only hard counter to Marines is crazy talk just as it's crazy to say that Infestors don't have their hard counters (Ghosts/HTs).
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"talking about efficiency isn't actually that meaningful to the actual game."

coulda saved yourself a whole lot of writing by doing alittle reading.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Pandaman said:
"talking about efficiency isn't actually that meaningful to the actual game."

coulda saved yourself a whole lot of writing by doing alittle reading.
Click to expand...

Well we're all dodging the real issue, Protoss is still easy mode. "Oh dang, my HTs used their devastating storms and feedbacks, guess I'll just have to turn them into a pack of doomsday units!"

"Boy, it's rough being able to reinforce right on the spot. It would be nice to get to walk across the map..."

"These perma cloaked units are only one shotting drones. They should half shot them!"

"Brood Lords and Mutas are pretty scary if you let the--just kidding *blinks*"

It's been too long since Protoss has had to defend their units
 
P

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Jeff-DSA said:
It's been too long since Protoss has had to defend their units
Click to expand...

You took our instant storm away, what more do you want!? :p
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Pancakes said:
You took our instant storm away, what more do you want!? :p
Click to expand...
technically if you build a ghost[w/ reactor]/infestor[/w glands]/templar at the same time, the templar will still get storm first.
 
B

Birdman02

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
Well we're all dodging the real issue, Protoss is still easy mode. "Oh dang, my HTs used their devastating storms and feedbacks, guess I'll just have to turn them into a pack of doomsday units!"

"Boy, it's rough being able to reinforce right on the spot. It would be nice to get to walk across the map..."

"These perma cloaked units are only one shotting drones. They should half shot them!"

"Brood Lords and Mutas are pretty scary if you let the--just kidding *blinks*"

It's been too long since Protoss has had to defend their units
Click to expand...


But you said it yourself that EMP makes for easy win vs Protoss. :p

The real reason Protoss has gotten a pass is because they haven't won anything recently. :(
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Birdman02 said:
But you said it yourself that EMP makes for easy win vs Protoss. :p

The real reason Protoss has gotten a pass is because they haven't won anything recently. :(
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last four majour events: p wins, p wins, z wins, t wins.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
People who don't expand when they contain me make me sad.

Which is sad in and of itself, because empathizing during matches just doesn't seem right.
 
H

Holden

Member
Pandaman said:
last four majour events: p wins, p wins, z wins, t wins.
Click to expand...

forgot nasl :p

random fact: all of those won by koreans (counting huk as a korean since hes been playing there since beggining of the year

koreans killing esports
 
A

Awesome Animals

Member
WedgeX said:
People who don't expand when they contain me make me sad.

Which is sad in and of itself, because empathizing during matches just doesn't seem right.
Click to expand...

I have similar sentiments actually. I know what they should be doing, and get mad. But then when the situation is reversed, I'm sure I'm messing up too.

Hugoboss21 said:
forgot nasl :p

random fact: all of those won by koreans (counting huk as a korean since hes been playing there since beggining of the year

koreans killing esports
Click to expand...

Agreed. HuK is, by most criteria, a Korean.
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
Myke Greywolf said:
I really don't know. Just presume I'm clueless.
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EU Gaf for SC2 is not big from what I gather here, but NA Gaf is pretty lively at any time of the day, even more so during the evening, and especially on the weekly GAF night.

If that region free demo lets you try NA region, then hit it up. :)
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
You guys should just chill out, grab a beer or something and watch Assembly Summer. BratOK vs Stephano bronze match going on now and Dimaga vs Mana finals after that.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Huk is a Korean player 1st, a Canadian 3rd.

Nothing hurts Canadians more than other people claiming their products/celebrities as their own.
 
D

Deadman

Member
Tacitus_ said:
You guys should just chill out, grab a beer or something and watch Assembly Summer. BratOK vs Stephano bronze match going on now and Dimaga vs Mana finals after that.
Click to expand...

And not a single ghost was made that day. (in game 1)
 
P

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
canadian player plays in Korea: he is Korean
korean player lives and plays in america since before beta: also korean.
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
Ghost is the coolest fucking unit that Terran get. Make 20 of them every game. Just churn those ballers out. THEY DROP FUCKING NUKES FROM THE SKY!
 
P

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
zlatko said:
Ghost is the coolest fucking unit that Terran get. Make 20 of them every game. Just churn those ballers out. THEY DROP FUCKING NUKES FROM THE SKY!
Click to expand...

And they have the coolest dialogue.

"Somebody call for an exterminator?"

Not to mention the death sound

"BLAAAAAAAAAAAARGHRHGRHGHHHHHHH!"

"Never say die..."
 
Z

zlatko

Banned
Pancakes said:
And they have the coolest dialogue.

"Somebody call for an exterminator?"

Not to mention the death sound

"BLAAAAAAAAAAAARGHRHGRHGHHHHHHH!"

"Never say die..."
Click to expand...

AND they can turn invisible AND they use giant sniper rifles.
 
E

Elcheris

Neo Member
Sheth is getting most of the hype because of who he is, not because of how good he is at starcraft. Not that he isn't bad, he is one of the best foreigners out there. Just in comparison to Idra he isn't super good. I think one of the biggest problems Sheth has right now is nerve, he seems to choke up quite a bit in live events. Otherwise he is pretty damn good!
 
S

ShallNoiseUpon

Member
Deadman said:
TvZ winrate is beyond blizzards 5% margin for error. Time for huge terran nerfs.
Click to expand...

I think it could be even worse on ladder, given these are only tournament results from TLPD.


Next patch:

Infernal Pre-Igniter reverted to previous icon.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
ShallNoiseUpon said:
I think it could be even worse on ladder, given these are only tournament results from TLPD.


Next patch:

Infernal Pre-Igniter reverted to previous icon.
Click to expand...

Noooooooo.

The only reason I use blue flame right now is the icon.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
ShallNoiseUpon said:
SC2 Stats for July: https://twitter.com/#!/SC2Statistics/status/99558234175705088

Giant image: http://i.imgur.com/uaVuw.png

TvP: 52.8%
TvZ: 55.4%
ZvP: 53.8%

Overall winrate:

T: 54.2%
Z: 48.6%
P: 46.7%

Sample size: 2790 games total

MARIIIIINEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS
Click to expand...

Most of this has to do with the quality of players and what races they choose. There are few good Protoss players in Korea right now and even less competent Zergs. I don't think guys like MVP, MMA, Bomber, etc. are great because they play Terran. I think they're great AND they play Terran. I still think Nestea is the best player in the world, and he probably would be with any race.
 
S

ShallNoiseUpon

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
Most of this has to do with the quality of players and what races they choose. There are few good Protoss players in Korea right now and even less competent Zergs. I don't think guys like MVP, MMA, Bomber, etc. are great because they play Terran. I think they're great AND they play Terran. I still think Nestea is the best player in the world, and he probably would be with any race.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if the data is international TLPD only or international + Korea together.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
ShallNoiseUpon said:
I'm not sure if the data is international TLPD only or international + Korea together.
Click to expand...

Oh, my bad. I was reading quickly and I though it said GSL July. Move along...

I wonder when Heart of the Swarm hits if it will swing toward Zerg as more people get a proper training from the campaign on the hotkeys and tech trees.
 
D

Deadman

Member
yeah i seem to remember last time they came out they were separate and international was around 2.5k games and korea was around 700 games.

edit: hmm maybe not, just seen an old graph that didnt have that many korean games on it. now i think its a combined one.
 
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