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[hamchan]

Terran is high because players discovered that Hellions are pretty awesome.

 

[HolyCheck]

http://eu.battle.net/blizzcon/en/tournaments/eu-regionals/

Blizz EU Invite - Day 1

Blizzard's first Invitational on the EU Bnet server! 8 Players are battling for a $24,500, prizepool as well as a chance to grab prestigious spots at the 2011 Global Battle.net Invitational. They are:

Strelok, Thorzain, Naniwa, Liquid`Ret, White-Ra, Nerchio, Socke and Tarson.

Starts in 1h45min.

Is there a thread coming/already up?

You just nominated!

but might I suggest, make it a Global Battle.net Invitational thread? so it can be used for the euro, american / korean tourneys too? and then the big one?


like i'll be doing for the WCG

is this battle.net invitational.. for the blizzcon tourney, or is it something else? I've always been a bit confused..

 

[MrKnives]

*mocking cause old*

If it has July 2011 it can't be that old. But could be mistaked, first time I see them but that's not saying much

 

[Keikaku]

NEOGAF SUMMER INVITATIONAL UPDATE

Ro16 Matchups

• Elcheris vs. Ultrabum

• Devil vs. Moemoland

• Pankaks vs. Vaporak

• MescalineEyes vs. Aylinato

• Striek vs *BYE ROUND*

• BigAT vs. Wedge7

• Holden vs. Twosocks

• Lathentar vs. Pandaman

If your name is bolded, you've made it through to the next round either by win or forfeit. Congratulations!


Ro8 Matchups

• Ultrabum vs. Moemoland

• Vaporak vs. MescalineEyes

• Striek vs. Wedge7

• Holden vs. Pandaman

You have until 11:59PM PST, next Saturday (August 13, 2011) to complete your matches. Please PM me with results and replays or post in the thread

Good luck and have fun, gentlemen!

 

[mescalineeyes]

yay! I will try to play Vaporak asap.

 

[Holden]

Oooooooooh god!

 

[Striek]

Will be online gaf night Wedge as well as randomly throughout the week =)

terran winrate is only so high because they actually had the best players at the recent events.

that's all those stats really say.

Did the best protoss and zerg players take last month off when I wasn't paying attention?

 

[Zen]

I'm not really surprised that Terran is currently favored in the TvP and TvZ. In TvP the polt style and composition has really taken off, and personally I've found a lot of Protoss have been rather inflexible in adapting to it or punishing.

In TvZ the Zerg were rocking Terrans with infestors, and we've relatively recently seen a crazy swing into Terran domination with Blue Flame, but I don't expect that to last since most of those wins come from Zerg not knowing the follow ups or having their defenses not up to snuff.

Protoss, though, definitely have it the worst out of all the races right now.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Did the best protoss and zerg players take last month off when I wasn't paying attention?

Most Koreans that attended foreign tournaments were terran. *shrugs*
DRG performed fairly well in MLG as well only to play terribly and entirely one-dimensional vs MVP.

I just don't think that chart has any value whatsoever.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Holden vs. Pandaman

/guiletheme

 

[zoukka]

none of those are cost effective.
also why are you allowed to mix zerg unit comps, but we cant add in a seige tank? thats kind of disingenuous.

typically, cost efficiency is way in favour of the marine. absurdly even. even when you max supply to test supply efficiency, marines beat everything but broodlords and infestor.

200 marines 10,000
vs 100 roaches 7,500/2,500
result: marines win

Max supply efficiency doesn't tell you anything about this game. There aren't situations where you have full supply marines against full supply roaches.

10 roaches will win against 20 marines.
10 roaches with speed will lose to 20 marines with stim
10 roaches w/o speed and with +1 attack will win against 20 marines with stim
10 roaches w/o speed and with +1 armor will actually lose to those marines, because unlike above, roaches need 3 hits to kill a stimmed marine.

Lings are terrible against marines in any confrontation really. I think that's one reason why marines feel so powerful. If T adds marauders the roaches feel very weak because Z adding lings to the mix does not have the same effect.

Also you can add creep into the equation which makes these confrontations more advantageous to Z.

Adding banelings into these confrontations makes it clear that Z can fight stimmed marines cost efficiently. Add 4 banes and 6 marines and Z wins. Add 8 banes and 12 marines and the fight becomes heavily favoured for Z.

I'm sure you can find holes in my test, but I've never felt like marines were too powerful.

 

[fanboi]

^ nerd

 

[zoukka]

^ nerd

That took me 10 minutes in the unit tester

 

[Pandaman]

Max supply efficiency doesn't tell you anything about this game. There aren't situations where you have full supply marines against full supply roaches.

10 roaches will win against 20 marines.
10 roaches with speed will lose to 20 marines with stim
10 roaches w/o speed and with +1 attack will win against 20 marines with stim
10 roaches w/o speed and with +1 armor will actually lose to those marines, because unlike above, roaches need 3 hits to kill a stimmed marine.

Lings are terrible against marines in any confrontation really. I think that's one reason why marines feel so powerful. If T adds marauders the roaches feel very weak because Z adding lings to the mix does not have the same effect.

Also you can add creep into the equation which makes these confrontations more advantageous to Z.

Adding banelings into these confrontations makes it clear that Z can fight stimmed marines cost efficiently. Add 4 banes and 6 marines and Z wins. Add 8 banes and 12 marines and the fight becomes heavily favoured for Z.

I'm sure you can find holes in my test, but I've never felt like marines were too powerful.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29865426&postcount=5203

 

[zoukka]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29865426&postcount=5203

Yes I saw that part in multiple messages, but still wanted to correct your silly statements, that the infestor is the only cost efficient unit zerg has against marines.

 

[Pandaman]

Yes I saw that part in multiple messages, but still wanted to correct your silly statements, that the infestor is the only cost efficient unit zerg has against marines.

it is the only cost efficient unit zerg has against marines, its just that cost efficiency isnt very important unit vs unit.

you think 8 banelings beat 12 marines? nope. but if you add 8 banelings vs pure marine, well why can only zerg tweak its unit comp? why cant t say "i want 2 tanks" or "ill cut 20 marines for 10 hellions"?

composition, position, state of economy, etc. these are all much more important that unit efficiency and thats why people need to adopt a new argument vs infestors beyond 'its cost effictive vs everything'.

 

[MrKnives]

It's live!

 

[HolyCheck]

It's live!

wheres our thread?

 

[MrKnives]

wheres our thread?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=29884858#post29884858

Don't judge I was in a hurry!

Edit: damn I missed the arguing about the marines

Edit: Didn't the automaton bot already show that marines beat everything! EVERYTHING! You just need to be fast.

 

[zoukka]

it is the only cost efficient unit zerg has against marines, its just that cost efficiency isnt very important unit vs unit.

you think 8 banelings beat 12 marines? nope. but if you add 8 banelings vs pure marine, well why can only zerg tweak its unit comp? why cant t say "i want 2 tanks" or "ill cut 20 marines for 10 hellions"?

composition, position, state of economy, etc. these are all much more important that unit efficiency and thats why people need to adopt a new argument vs infestors beyond 'its cost effictive vs everything'.

Everything you said is clear to me. However marines vs roaches aren't an uncommon matchup and I endorse people to try them more. They will win against early marine balls.

 

[Pandaman]

Everything you said is clear to me. However marines vs roaches aren't an uncommon matchup and I endorse people to try them more. They will win against early marine balls.

unless there's a pretty significant skew caused by T teching[another reason why cost comparisons suck, there are other things to spend money on in actual games], they wont. its not really a good idea to open roach vs a 2rax opener.

roaches get bit hard in the early game by their supply requirements, i dont really consider them to be a good idea without t going factory.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Everything you said is clear to me. However marines vs roaches aren't an uncommon matchup and I endorse people to try them more. They will win against early marine balls.

only if it goes unscouted and the terran doesn't add marauders to his mix, which he undoubtedly will as he needs at least one techlab to make marines actually worthwhile.

 

[zoukka]

its not really a good idea to open roach vs a 2rax opener.

Has worked for me. And lately when is seems that all terrans go hellions, you need them anyway. Nothing forces you to commit to mass roach. Maybe it's Destinys fault that all zergs want to solve all problems by making more lings?

only if it goes unscouted and the terran doesn't add marauders to his mix, which he undoubtedly will as he needs at least one techlab to make marines actually worthwhile.

It's not easy to scout the warren early game. And adding marauders after you run into roaches is too late to negate them completely.

 

[Pandaman]

Has worked for me. And lately when is seems that all terrans go hellions, you need them anyway. Nothing forces you to commit to mass roach. Maybe it's Destinys fault that all zergs want to solve all problems by making more lings?

right, but you're eu so everyone you play is bad. :3

and its not really destinys fault when pretty much everything but hellions dies to lings much easier than they do to roaches at better cost. im a really big propenent of roach aggression against gasing terrans, but i've been burned every time there's been a 2rax. i dont like having to hold the 2rax while being down 150 minerals for the warren and should they follow with 4+ rax, the roaches will be overrun anyway.

 

[zoukka]

right, but you're eu so everyone you play is bad. :3

dunnolol, I just feel EU zergs get shit done instead of whining about everything.

and its not really destinys fault when pretty much everything but hellions dies to lings much easier than they do to roaches at better cost. im a really big propenent of roach aggression against gasing terrans, but i've been burned every time there's been a 2rax. i dont like having to hold the 2rax while being down 150 minerals for the warren and should they follow with 4+ rax, the roaches will be overrun anyway.

Again, you need not make a single roach if you feel like T is coming with a massrax strat. Delaying ling speed a bit gives you additional room to macro if you open fast roaches.

 

[ksan]

dunnolol, I just feel EU zergs get shit done instead of whining about everything.

haha, you would have a point if I wasn't a member here!

 

[Holden]

dunnolol, I just feel EU zergs get shit done instead of whining about everything.

EU terrans (from gaf) whine alot

 

[zoukka]

EU terrans (from gaf) whine alot

I know.

That's why we don't play with them. (actually, they just avoid us).

 

[Holden]

I know.

That's why we don't play with them. (actually, they just avoid us).

yaaaaaa, they come bug us in NA

 

[fanboi]

That took me 10 minutes in the unit tester

j/k

 

[Pandaman]

I know.

That's why we don't play with them. (actually, they just avoid us).

actually, most of eu gaf are now na gaf. they knew the stronger community when they saw it.
its really just you and yoshichan who hide on eu.

Again, you need not make a single roach if you feel like T is coming with a massrax strat. Delaying ling speed a bit gives you additional room to macro if you open fast roaches.

ingspeed is very tight already vs mass rax, its not worth the risk when people start to know their timings.

 

[fanboi]

actually, most of eu gaf are now na gaf. they knew the stronger community when they saw it.
its really just you and yoshichan who hide on eu.


ingspeed is very tight already vs mass rax, its not worth the risk when people start to know their timings.

*highfive*

 

[zoukka]

actually, most of eu gaf are now na gaf. they knew the stronger community when they saw it.
its really just you and yoshichan who hide on eu.

They got spanked and went somewhere they could 2rax all day long and win here and there <3

 

[Pandaman]

They got spanked and went somewhere they could 2rax all day long and win here and there <3

actually, we weened devil off the bunker rushing. he does mech now.

NA master region; improving your players for you.

 

[zoukka]

NA master region; improving your players for you.

For a master region you sure need to fluff things up in every page.

 

[Holden]

LOOL destiny is rolling a korean zerg with mass infestor and infestor drops so fucking funny

 

[Q8D3vil]

NA ladder is my test ground for new builds.

 

[Holden]

idra is finnaly unbanned from teamliquid after 3 months when the cruncher thing happened

:lol

 

[IceMarker]

idra is finnaly unbanned from teamliquid after 3 months when the cruncher thing happened

Time flies...

 

[Yoshichan]

lol @ US scrubs continuing on with a discussion that's been finished a long time ago.

Give up, shut up, or come to EU and get a taste of how laddering feels like in this region.

 

[Holden]

lol @ US scrubs continuing on with a discussion that's been finished a long time ago.

Give up, shut up, or come to EU and get a taste of how laddering feels like in this region.

come to NA where everybody is and we'll make you break you're screen.

 

[Pandaman]

lol @ US scrubs continuing on with a discussion that's been finished a long time ago.

Give up, shut up, or come to EU and get a taste of how laddering feels like in this region.

i've been to eu, i'd sooner play in sea if i wanted competition.

enjoy being diamond in the irrelevant server. :3

 

[Chinese Electric Batman]

come to NA where everybody is and we'll make you break you're screen.

Ahahahha

 

[Yoshichan]

come to NA where everybody is and we'll make you break you're screen.

I just remembered that GAF doesn't ladder,
so please keep your mouth shut cuz' it doesn't even matter

Though I wish Q8D3vil would never ever switch
oh well I guess he's just trying out one of those glitch

Panda keeps telling everyone below Master to switch race or region
God damn this guy doesn't know US server is soon extinction'D

Fuck it I've been drinking way too much and it's better for me to leave now
Oh well I guess it's time for me to do a /wave and a /bow

 

[ksan]

I just remembered that GAF doesn't ladder,
so please keep your mouth shut cuz' it doesn't even matter

Though I wish Q8D3vil would never ever switch
oh well I guess he's just trying out one of those glitch

Panda keeps telling everyone below Master to switch race or region
God damn this guy doesn't know US server is soon extinction'D

Fuck it I've been drinking way too much and it's better for me to leave now
Oh well I guess it's time for me to do a /wave and a /bow

??????????????
That would have made sense...
If it was 12 hours from now?

 

[Holden]

I just remembered that GAF doesn't ladder,
so please keep your mouth shut cuz' it doesn't even matter

Though I wish Q8D3vil would never ever switch
oh well I guess he's just trying out one of those glitch

Panda keeps telling everyone below Master to switch race or region
God damn this guy doesn't know US server is soon extinction'D

Fuck it I've been drinking way too much and it's better for me to leave now
Oh well I guess it's time for me to do a /wave and a /bow

aren't you the one that says that you're in master but you're not :lol

use the starter edition so we can crush you =D

 

[Pandaman]

??????????????
That would have made sense...
If it was 12 hours from now?

actually it explains alot.

 

[Holden]

actually it explains alot.

hhahahahhahah

 

[Yoshichan]

??????????????
That would have made sense...
If it was 12 hours from now?

bakfylla, duh

aren't you the one that says that you're in master but you're not :lol

I'm in dia but with 5% win ratios against specific races, I should be in bronze or beta-copper. Trust me.

 

[ksan]

bakfylla, duh