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[TheThunder]

There was bound to be cultural business clashing like this as the SC2's foreign scene exploded. No way the old Korean BW model was going to cultivate in SC2 the way they expected to, on their terms.

If these were BW teams then they would've had tight contract around their aces with plenty of cash thrown their way. I hear Flash is one of the highest paid players in the profession.

These teams need to wake up. You can't expect someone to play 8-10 hours a day 5 days a week without a salary or having something in writing.

 

[ksan]

Milkis sounds like "I don't know how much the rest of you know about Korean culture (I'm an expert)"...

 

[HolyCheck]

lol to summarise milkis argument "what you did was very rude"

 

[Pandaman]

basically, koreans are crazy.

.

 

[Home]

But what if the foreign teammates of said bought Korean can't keep up? Would it be reasonable to drop those players and just pick up more Koreans?

It would be reasonable to drop them if they can no longer compete, as any sports team does, but that will hopefully not be the case. In the EG Puma situation, hopefully puma can come into the organization and really help idra, inc, machine etc improve their game, whether it's by demonstrating a better worth ethic that the managers can point at as an example, or by just being a practice partner if the work ethic is already there.

If after whatever date EG looks at their pool of players and decides that certain players have to be replaced, that's unfortunate. But I think as time goes on, with more and more koreans coming to western events and teams, the teams will naturally weed out those without the work ethic and talent, and bring in better players, from the western scene and korean scenes that demonstrate that they have that drive to compete, something that I think a few foreign pros desperately need. (tyler!)

 

[Corran Horn]

if you're going to translate an opinion and add your own, probably not bad consulting the sources considering the news was korean only at that point.

Dude is a translator. He translates for the community. Its not his job to contact other people.

 

[HolyCheck]

Dude is a translator. He translates for the community. Its not his job to contact other people.

then he should accept he's going to be thrown into the middle of it.

 

[hamchan]

Destiny is having an argument with some stranger on his stream talking about some new female player (Slayers_Eve) that Slayers team accepted. They're arguing in regards to the sexism that exists behind that decision.

Stranger says the message is to promote Starcraft II in the eyes for female gamers.

Destiny argues that taking a female scrub and putting her in the spotlight is an insult to the SC2 pro community. Just because she's female and wants to play doesn't automatically make her an acceptable candidate.

This is the topic under heated discussion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246175

Good on Slayers_Jessica. The cyberbullying against Eve really did get out of hand and if these people can be punished then that's good. As to whether Eve deserves her place in the team or not, if Jessica saw potential in her then who is to argue with her?

 

[TheThunder]

Wait what's this stuff about Milkis you guys talking about ?

 

[HolyCheck]

Wait what's this stuff about Milkis you guys talking about ?

http://www.justin.tv/onemoregametv#/w/1505678032/2

finished now, dj wheat is just giving a summary, i'd wait for the VODs, well worth a listen

 

[perryfarrell]

Dude is a translator. He translates for the community.

False. The Team Liquid forums are the #1 source for international Starcraft 2 news. Milkis is a respected poster, and he knew that his news would be read by thousands of people and spread through the community like wildfire. With such responsibility, you have to be conscientious with what you write.

This doesn't just apply to TL, it applies to all kinds of new online journalism.

"I'm just a translator" and "Are you saying every post have to be fact-checked? Lulz" are not serious responses to this situation.

I'm not saying Milkis was careless in reporting what he reported. In fact, I think he should have responded to Alex by saying, "Yes, I'm a journalist of sorts. What did I do wrong in my reporting?"

 

[Home]

Dude is a translator. He translates for the community. Its not his job to contact other people.

If he just wants to be a translator, that's fine, he probably shouldn't have gone on weapon of choice though if he wants to remain neutral. He probably had good intentions of going on and giving viewers a korean point of view, but it didn't stay that way unfortunately.

 

[Corran Horn]

Nice show, although EG dude felt like a douche in the end to me. I chuckled at this

DJ (I'm going to stop you there Milkis) or (I know where you are coming form Alex) Wheat.

 

[Corran Horn]

Shrug I guess I agree to disagree.

 

[Awesome Animals]

If I want to listen, where should I start...not the entire 2 hrs right?

 

[Corran Horn]

If I want to listen, where should I start...not the entire 2 hrs right?

Its most of the 2 hours. Maybe like 10-20 mins in.

 

[Mairu]

If I want to listen, where should I start...not the entire 2 hrs right?

I found it a really interesting topic to listen to as I enjoy hearing about the business side of eSports. It's a shame that they couldn't get someone more qualified to speak about the other side, no offense to Milkis. He definitely represented a certain segment of the other side (Korean netizen opinion?) but I would've absolutely loved a conversation between Alex & the TSL coach or something.

 

[Awesome Animals]

Its most of the 2 hours. Maybe like 10-20 mins in.

*sigh*

I'm not that committed to the drama...which seems to be all the SCII scene is now-a-days. Let's hope MLG Anaheim is good

 

[Corran Horn]

I found it a really interesting topic to listen to as I enjoy hearing about the business side of eSports. It's a shame that they couldn't get someone more qualified to speak about the other side, no offense to Milkis. He definitely represented a certain segment of the other side (Korean netizen opinion?) but I would've absolutely loved a conversation between Alex & the TSL coach or something.

i think it would have seriously helped it Chill was there. He could help out milkis from the TL point of view.

 

[Deadly]

Destiny is having an argument with some stranger on his stream talking about some new female player (Slayers_Eve) that Slayers team accepted. They're arguing in regards to the sexism that exists behind that decision.

Stranger says the message is to promote Starcraft II in the eyes for female gamers.

Destiny argues that taking a female scrub and putting her in the spotlight is an insult to the SC2 pro community. Just because she's female and wants to play doesn't automatically make her an acceptable candidate.

This is the topic under heated discussion: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=246175

I hope she becomes really good and shows people wrong. It's true that it is slightly insulting but everyone has to start somewhere. Luck is always a factor in things and well she hit the jackpot so far.

 

[clav]

I hope she becomes really good and shows people wrong. It's true that it is slightly insulting but everyone has to start somewhere. Luck is always a factor in things and well she hit the jackpot so far.

Good on Slayers_Jessica. The cyberbullying against Eve really did get out of hand and if these people can be punished then that's good. As to whether Eve deserves her place in the team or not, if Jessica saw potential in her then who is to argue with her?

I can see why people are angry and why they take a very intolerable sense for accepting a lady in the league. There appears to be a sense of entitlement and honor/prestige to be in the e-sports community.

I'm a bit mixed on it, but since I'm not in the e-sports professional scene as in a contender who plays in it, my opinion doesn't really matter.

Hopefully something good will come out for it.

 

[HolyCheck]

*sigh*

I'm not that committed to the drama...which seems to be all the SCII scene is now-a-days. Let's hope MLG Anaheim is good

Fair enough, for anyone who wants to get a bit more of a look into the business side of esports however, it's really worth a listen.

I also thought Wheat did a good job mediating, some times he can get VERY vocal between callers discussing stuff, he really tried his best to stay out of this and just control the direction of the convo, and gave a good summary at the end

 

[Pandaman]

I hope she becomes really good and shows people wrong. It's true that it is slightly insulting but everyone has to start somewhere. Luck is always a factor in things and well she hit the jackpot so far.

i think they should have hired her for being very good.
she isnt.

 

[Holden]

i think they should have hired her for being very good.
she isnt.

what he said

 

[PhoenixDark]

I hope she becomes really good and shows people wrong. It's true that it is slightly insulting but everyone has to start somewhere. Luck is always a factor in things and well she hit the jackpot so far.

If she's high diamond in Korea that honestly makes her masters US. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was better than Destiny

 

[Mairu]

i think they should have hired her for being very good.
she isnt.

wtf I agree with Panda

Hopefully she'll get good being in SlayerS though but personally I would've preferred if they were going to make a move like this they did it when their whole team/players are in a slump

If she's high diamond in Korea that honestly makes her masters US. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was better than Destiny

Koreans don't recruit Koreans to compete with NA players though, they recruit them to compete with Koreans. I don't ever understand why people bring this up :/

 

[a176]

if she was actually good, there wouldnt have been an uproar.

cant wait till slayers play her and gets completely humiliated infront of the sc2 community. thats if they ever play her.

 

[Holden]

If she's high diamond in Korea that honestly makes her masters US. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was better than Destiny

LOL, Destiny beated Startale Ace and Bomber. Destiny has been showing relly good performence.

Spoiler

Or just that infestors are op

 

[a176]

If she's high diamond in Korea that honestly makes her masters US. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was better than Destiny

the thread says she's gold ...

 

[Mairu]

LOL, Destiny beated Startale Ace and Bomber. Destiny has been showing relly good performence.

Spoiler

Or just that infestors are op

He also lost to Axslav, who I would put infinitely lower in skill than both of those players. SC2 isn't really at the point where players at different skill levels are *always* going to win vs players who may be worse!

the thread says she's gold ...

Not according to SlayerSJessica which is going to have a little more credibility in terms of where her players are than random netizens ;|

 

[MrKnives]

it requires an insane good micro and depend on the zerg making a mistake ( he can fungal the ghost and kill them easily).
demuslim had already stated that mass ghost against tier 3 zerg is a myth.

Can't you just like, spread them out and stuff. Sniping and da shit. If I still remember correctly tanks have longer range than fungals or broodlords so wouldn't that mean they have to come to you, not the other way around.
But I guess if Demuslim said it, it must be so. Because it's not like any Zerg pro's did state something similar in that regards, multiple times.

if you're going to translate an opinion and add your own, probably not bad consulting the sources considering the news was korean only at that point.

Not sure that falls under my definition of a journalist. He didn't add any of his own opinions in the OP. He translated a news, that's what people expect from him. If he had more facts from EG's side he would have added them too.

That whole argument was just wrong. It was a mistake from Djwheat to put Milkis to argue against Alex, that clearly has practiced under some politician. Answering the question, but not really answering a question. Just talking off-topic for couple of minutes.

LOL, Destiny beated Startale Ace and Bomber. Destiny has been showing relly good performence.

Spoiler

Or just that infestors are op

Didn't Bomber play from Korea on NA server? When Destiny beats him in the booth I will be really impressed.

 

[clav]

i think they should have hired her for being very good.
she isnt.

To be fair, she could probably kick all of our asses.

 

[Pandaman]

If she's high diamond in Korea that honestly makes her masters US. I wouldn't be surprised at all if she was better than Destiny

you cant be serious.

do people really think diamond level korean pubbies have access to the infustracture and team setup that makes gsl level korean pros so successful? or this just the koreans are geneticay superior at starcraft nonsense in different words?

we have gaffers who are diamonds on kr you know? they dont exactly light up na/eu.

To be fair, she could probably kick all of our asses.

i severely doubt that. i'd bet my money on a striek, a holden, a paz, a moemoe, a chanstaa, a elcheris, a twosocks, a vautrin, and whoever i dont know from eu-gaf long before i'd bet on a ladder pubbie whose majour achievement is winning a bronze to diamond tourney.

 

[Deadly]

To be fair, she could probably kick all of our asses.

A big majority of us yeah, but not all.

 

[Mairu]

you cant be serious.

do people really think diamond level korean pubbies have access to the infustracture and team setup that makes gsl level korean pros so successful? or this just the koreans are geneticay superior at starcraft nonsense in different words?

we have gaffers who are diamonds on kr you know? they dont exactly light up na/eu.


i severely doubt that

I don't think there is any sort of racial superiority but the legitimacy of Brood War as a sport probably helps for making even non-teamed players in StarCraft BW/2 on average better than players from North America/Europe

 

[jasonng]

A big majority of us yeah, but not all.

We're not the ones who got signed up to a team where our income is based on sponser.

 

[Pandaman]

I don't think there is any sort of racial superiority but the legitimacy of Brood War as a sport probably helps for making even non-teamed players in StarCraft BW/2 on average better than players from North America/Europe

non-teamed[professionally], sure. I don't think it extends throughout the whole ladder though.

i'd be surprised if any unsigned player whose had majour success did so alone without atleast a clan enviroment backing them up.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Wait so zerg is OP against terran now (i'd like to see some data backing this up)?

Can someone teach me to be OP then? Because i am dominating in ZvP and i'm starting to do well in ZvZ but my inability to beat any terran at all is really holding me back.

Edit:I don't understand what there is to question about the move by slayers. They brought eve onto the team because they thought it would benefit the team, end of discussion. If you disagree with their logic fine but it's their choice who they recruit.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Wait so zerg is OP against terran now (i'd like to see some data backing this up)?

Can someone teach me to be OP then? Because i am dominating in ZvP and i'm starting to do well in ZvZ but my inability to beat any terran at all is really holding me back.

You gotta use more Nydus worms, man.

 

[Mairu]

non-teamed[professionally], sure. I don't think it extends throughout the whole ladder though.

i'd be surprised if any unsigned player whose had majour success did so alone without atleast a clan enviroment backing them up.

Hey, there was that random protoss not on a team who qualified for GSL Code A this season. He did get knocked out in ro32 by Jinro, but still that's pretty impressive for someone not on a team. I still think that the overall view of RTSes as a legitimate sport or career in SK is going to contribute to nonprofessional play being at a higher level than outside of SK

 

[Pandaman]

Hey, there was that random protoss not on a team who qualified for GSL Code A this season. He did get knocked out in ro32 by Jinro, but still that's pretty impressive for someone not on a team. I still think that the overall view of RTSes as a legitimate sport or career in SK is going to contribute to nonprofessional play being at a higher level than outside of SK

i wouldnt distinguish between such a person and a signed pro.

destiny currently has no team, but most people would probably agree that he's a professional and does not represent the average player without a team.

 

[Quadratic]

So much drama lately in SC2 land. I think I'm going to stop reading TL for a while just for sanity's sake.

Just to throw a few cents into what has happened lately. I think Slayers_Jessica is overreacting on the internet trolls. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think it was a PR mistake for sending out EVE without fully realizing the shitstorm that would happen. SC fans care about results, not potential. Having the KR ladder locked with her new account being Gold was not good. If she was given time to raise her rank to GM I think a lot of criticism wouldn't be there. And since she's the 1st female SC2 progamer a huge burden is put on her shoulders. I hope Eve can handle this and not be broken mentally before accomplishing anything.

On the EG/TSL/Puma issue. Holy shit. Major miscommunication here. I do not blame Puma for signing with EG. A player needs to have a more secure income than just prize winnings. EG and TSL should have considered how Koreans VS how western people operate in terms of dealing with players/assets. The TSL coach Mr. Lee was super pissed. Just some simple dialogue would have avoided this whole mess I think. Almost a day since the PlayXP article I didn't get the indication both sides were trying to talk to each other. I've seen other Koreans such as Rain and Twilight go to foreign teams without incident. I hope everyone learns from this and a KeSPA-like entity for SC2 doesn't form because the Koreans want to protect their players from being poached. When GOMtv's contract ends next year on exclusivity on televised SC2, my hope is that a new agreement can be made so more tournaments can happen in Korea and there's more opportunity to make money as a player.

I'm just going to play SC2 and watch GSL. Who would have thought ESPORTS was so filled with drama?

 

[Awesome Animals]

Fair enough, for anyone who wants to get a bit more of a look into the business side of esports however, it's really worth a listen.

I also thought Wheat did a good job mediating, some times he can get VERY vocal between callers discussing stuff, he really tried his best to stay out of this and just control the direction of the convo, and gave a good summary at the end

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the business side of all sports, and that includes eSports, but everything I've seen so far is just pointing fingers, and from the discussion held hear about tonight's episode of Weapon of Choice was that of a fan being accusatory of EG. That isn't business other than the fact that it gives DJWheat's Weapon of Choice a ratings boost.

I think someone said it earlier, get someone in a more official position in Korean eSports to go against the EG Director, or w/e he is. Regardless, the fact of the matter is that EG did nothing wrong. They identified a rising star, found out that he wasn't under contract, mostly because if you aren't in Code S, you are playing long hours for no pay, and offered him a better opportunity to make a living playing Starcraft. And honestly, it seemed inevitable. If Trickster and Fruitdealer both left, and now Puma has left as well, I think it suggests that TSL wasn't a well run team.


The only problem I had with the SlayerS_Eve incident is SlayerS_Jessica not shutting up. It just seems like basic PR to me to not have these personalities and e-thletes (yes, I just coined that) running their mouth on twitter, and in interviews and stuff. These people need to learn how to act and react in the spotlight. Especially her going to TeamLiquid.net and needing to translate from Korean to English. Translation is tricky, and if anything gets worded wrong, and the wrong thing is gleaned from the statement, the shitstorm gets larger.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Can't you just like, spread them out and stuff. Sniping and da shit. If I still remember correctly tanks have longer range than fungals or broodlords so wouldn't that mean they have to come to you, not the other way around.
But I guess if Demuslim said it, it must be so. Because it's not like any Zerg pro's did state something similar in that regards, multiple times.

aside from idra saying that ghost can counter all zerg units i have yet to see any other zerg talk about it.
btw, many people don't know this but fast sniping is not as easy as some people might think.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Wait so zerg is OP against terran now (i'd like to see some data backing this up)?

Can someone teach me to be OP then? Because i am dominating in ZvP and i'm starting to do well in ZvZ but my inability to beat any terran at all is really holding me back.

Edit:I don't understand what there is to question about the move by slayers. They brought eve onto the team because they thought it would benefit the team, end of discussion. If you disagree with their logic fine but it's their choice who they recruit.

fast infestors into broodlords of 3-4 bases, fungal everything that attacks the broodlord while your army is behind it.
get neural parasite if u are playing mech.

 

[Terproerg]

Hey guys, im trying out streaming once more since i got a new cpu. Anyways goto justin.tv/terproerg if u wanna see some scrubie plat play .

Just let me know if its good or not for you guys. I might try upping the res i cast at.

 

[Pandaman]

aside from idra saying that ghost can counter all zerg units i have yet to see any other zerg talk about it.
btw, many people don't know this but fast sniping is not as easy as some people might think.

i dont know why anyone would want their ghosts on autoattack, so i dont see the problem.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Wait so zerg is OP against terran now (i'd like to see some data backing this up)?

Can someone teach me to be OP then? Because i am dominating in ZvP and i'm starting to do well in ZvZ but my inability to beat any terran at all is really holding me back.

Edit:I don't understand what there is to question about the move by slayers. They brought eve onto the team because they thought it would benefit the team, end of discussion. If you disagree with their logic fine but it's their choice who they recruit.

Didn't Artosis on State of the Game this week say that TvZ is very hard for Terran right now? I think he said, "I'm not sure what Terran can do, it's really tough" or something very similar.

 

[Pandaman]

Didn't Artosis on State of the Game this week say that TvZ is very hard for Terran right now? I think he said, "I'm not sure what Terran can do, it's really tough" or something very similar.

he also said the infestor change was the most fundamentally good balance change the game has had.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Didn't Artosis on State of the Game this week say that TvZ is very hard for Terran right now? I think he said, "I'm not sure what Terran can do, it's really tough" or something very similar.

If there is one thing that artosis has proven without a doubt it's that his opinion on balance is worthless. Also without context (i.e does he mean at the pro level or lower?) that quote really doesn't tell me anything.

Again until i see some stats backing this up i have no reason to believe it. At the very top level i don't think it's true at all so it's only whether there is an imbalance at the lower levels.

Of course i realise that my personal anecdotes don't mean much against terran as i don't use infestors.