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[Mr.Phoenix]

Bethesda is losing more and more of my respect with each comment they make.

They need to shut up, apologize, do a hello games and CDPR, bunker down, and make their game better. Instead of trying to gaslight the world and tell us all how we don't know what a good game is. I mean these people have been saying the most ridiculous shit. first 30fps being an artistic choice? then trying to justify why there are loading screens everywhere.....etc

This reminds me of that too-human fiasco... idk.... maybe we are missing the point here, is this a North American devs thing? Rather than take accountability they attack their critics and fans.

 

[Zuzu]

Of course everyone who isn't a developer isn't going to know the exact reason for any given gameplay mechanic or world design decision in the game because we're not actually working there. But, depending on the mechanic in question, sometimes we can make a good guess - e.g. it doesn't take a great amount of insight to see that the large amount of loading screens in the game is caused by the limitations of the engine.

Also, many hardcore gamers actually have a strong understanding of what constitutes good game design. Many of us who are in our 30s, 40s, 50s etc. have been gaming for over 30 years and have experienced many games and we know fairly well what works and what doesn't when it comes to gameplay mechanics. Some developers on the other hand most likely exist in silos where they play a limited amount of games and are focussed only on their narrow genre in which they're working. Therefore, I think some of them are unaware of the gameplay innovations and advancements that are taking place in other areas of the industry.

Starfield failed to keep up with gameplay and narrative innovations and advancements that we've seen in other rpgs. On top of that they designed the world of Starfield so that it highlighted and brought to the forefront the weaknesses of the Creation Engine which served to downplay its strengths and to create a rather unenjoyable experience.

 

[balls of snow]

So insecure. Rockstar would never..
Also, for all the shit they got, cdpr never once hit back at the audience. They understood they need redemption and found it in Phantom Liberty + 2.0.

 

[ikbalCO]

They genuinely believe they have made the game of the century don't they

It is delusional.

Fromsoft released elden ring 3 years after sekiro and one of the year was lost due to covid.

It has been 8 years since fallout4 and this is what you have to show for? You are still making excuses left and rigth?

Bro, you had 8 years? Almost a decade of development and it is still this?

 

[KungFucius]

I know enough about product development to know that their leadership sucks and the fundamental vision for the game led to a poor design. It's all Todd Howard's fault. He is an arrogant asshole whose ideas are stuck in the early 2000s.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It’s like those Game of Thrones idiots telling people they don’t know what they are talking about. Sure buddy.

Guess what, the game you made is not good and there’s enough footage of you saying dumb shit.

If the game wasn’t “Xbox” you wouldn’t even be able to count on the warriors to defend your fool ass game.

 

[SirTerry-T]

Well, he's right about forums and social media being full of "backseat" developers who actually haven't got a fucking clue how a lot of this stuff is made, to be fair...

 

[Lethal01]

He's not wrong

 

[kubricks]

I don't need to know how the game is made, and that's why you are well paid to manage it.
You should seek help if you failed at basic logic, instead of trying to be a lead designer of any sort.

 

[GHG]

Obligatory from 6 years ago:



There is also a never video he made for GDC I think:



Long story short - this man should never been allowed to work as a lead on any videogame. In the end he is responsible for Bethesda games getting worse and worse starting after Morrowind.

Well this explains everything.

 

[SmokedMeat]

What’s with Bethesda going off the deep end as of late?
Your big new game sucked, deal with it. Like it’s the customer’s fault for not lapping up the slop you shoveled into the trough.

 

[Tsaki]

 

[damidu]

what a whole lot of nothing
get off your high horse, take the complaints.
and go back to drawing board with your ancient way of game tech/design
otherwise you'll be in for a bigger surprise next time.

 

[Aces High]

What's the alternative?

Should we all ignore that Starfield sucks, pay 70 dollars, and waste dozens of hours of our freetime into the game just because we didn't know how they developed it?

This guy is beyond ridiculous. If someone sells me stuff and I think it's crap then I'm gonna say it's crap.

 

[Thirty7ven]

What’s with Bethesda going off the deep end as of late?
Your big new game sucked, deal with it. Like it’s the customer’s fault for not lapping up the slop you shoveled into the trough.

They got used to living off the fame of decades old games. Skyrim was the last time they actually hit it out of the park and it’s been downhill since. All the people who had been telling on what was wrong with Fallout 4, an highly overrated game, got proven right with 76 and now got proven right once again with Starfield.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Their engines are clearly stuck on PS3 / Xbox 260 era...and the sooner they realize that the better.

 

[kyussman]

So it sounds like they are locked into making crap forever then......good to know.

 

[Lunarorbit]

Bethesda hasn't evolved at all. It's really embarrassing to see them go on steam and respond in ways like Emil is right now.

After fo4 you should have updated the creation engine extensively and hired competent character designers. It was cute and understandable why they looked dead eyed in Fallout 3 but it's 2023 now.

Look at Witcher 3, rdr2, and bg3. Three huge games using rpg mechanics that look stunning and play really well. Bethesda can't even hope to come close to those bangers while they're being pissy little babies.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Can't wait for the next Bethesda dev to tell us why the constant loadings are by design and implemented for the benefit of the gamers!

 

[Silver Wattle]

Half baked game and the Devs are in denial.

The game is dead, there's no coming back when they are this far behind.

 

[NightmareFarm]

There is no excuse for 30fps in 2023.

 

[mejin]

"Ponys are talking more about Starfield than anyone else"

I think no one cares anymore Bethesda and Phil, fun is over.

 

[Saber]

I hate this dumb retard argument that "since you don't work at X, you can't criticize".

Also thats rich coming from a game that spams the heck out of procedural stuff and hasn't evolved of development since older ES games.

 

[tommib]

God these guys have fit in to Microsoft's way of doing things and thinking in record time.

Zero accountability, maximum delusion.

I’m expecting a similar thread for Forza looking at Steam reviews.

 

[Ozzie666]

I'm not a developer, but evne I know the engine they use is ancien and doesn't take advantage of modern design features. It was ancient years ago, and more so now. The game suffered limitations.

 

[chilichote]

Why should I care how games are made, especially when others and Bethesda themselves are making comparable games better? As an end customer, I can and only want to evaluate the result, not the process.

 

[damidu]

good luck waiting for any sort of redemption arc for this hot mess btw.
seems they are still in denial stage

 

[diffusionx]

Lol Bugthesda's still at the Anger stage, looong way to go!

I would say this is clearly bargaining

 

[Deleted member 1159]

My hypothesis is pretty simple:

Making games that prioritize and accommodate player choice without being a buggy mess is exceedingly difficult and takes takes a long time. Larian and Nintendo are up to the task and Bethesda is not. CDPR sorta is, 3 years after they release their early access as a 1.0 then fix it later.

 

[Embearded]

He is correct, we know shit about game development, but this doesn't mean we can't recognize bad/outdated mechanics, engines and graphics, or false advertising and empty promises.
Not saying that Starfield has all that, but it surely didn't live up to the expectations they set in the first place.

I would suggest to stay away from social media if you are a game dev and don't have a strong stomach.

 

[Mokus]

So if Hitler says it's hard to run a country, we should give him a break?

 

[midnightAI]

I hate this dumb retard argument that "since you don't work at X, you can't criticize".

Also thats rich coming from a game that spams the heck out of procedural stuff and hasn't evolved of development since older ES games.

Well isnt this a huge red flag? What if they learn absolutely nothing about why Starfield isn't the success they expected and do the exact same thing with Elder Scrolls VI. This is a developer who seem stuck in their ways and are arrogant enough to think they can continue to do that without adapting to changing tastes, trends, even technology.

 

[Joshmyersbv]

First off, ever since Emil started directing games at Bethesda their games haven't been that good. I don't understand how this guy still gets to lead projects there considering how much of a fucking idiot he is.

Second, it's funny how he said fans don't know how games are made but everything he touches ends up getting fixed by the mod community. Whether that's bug fixes or quality of life changes the mod community fixes it more quickly and more efficiently. Almost as if they want the game to be as good as possible.

 

[Rheon]

I hate when creators pull this 'You don't know the whole story' bs like it's supposed to absolve them of their missteps.

We don't need to know the whole story to know that the end product is a steaming pile of shit.

 

[Del_X]

Consumers want games that live up to the hype. Don't sell shit at $70 then bitch when the user finds your mid game mid as fuck

 

[Shut0wen]

Problem with starfield is the shitty game engine, it looks nice but it really wasnt made for something in the scale of starfield

 

[SirKicksalot]

>guy says "feel free to complain but don't act like you know why we made some decisions"
>this thread: DON'T TELL ME TO NOT COMPLAIN YOU FUCK

 

[Joshmyersbv]

Here is what I don't understand, if the game is as successful as Microsoft says it is then why do we have steam reviews being critique by developers and Emil out here telling consumers that they don't know what their talking about?

You don't see this kind of shit with Rockstar, Insomniac, and games from Nintendo. It comes off as damage control and its fucking pathetic.

 

[demigod]

Those twinkies tastes a hundred times better than the shit they spewed out.

 

[Horseganador]

What Bethesda is doing is the worst thing they can do, blaming the players who "don't understand" the game or how it's done, responding to criticism from Steam, etc... it's absolutely ridiculous, accept the criticism and work for it. solve them in future projects.

 

[Skifi28]

Do you need to be a chef to know that poo is not a good ingredient to use?

 

[Buggy Loop]

“Chances are, unless you've made a game yourself, you don't know who made certain decisions; who did specific work; how many people were actually available to do that work; any time challenges faced; or how often you had to overcome technology itself (this one is HUGE)."

Overcome technology? Please. It’s old known world building they have been doing for decades stitched together. Procedural? How much manpower and time you need?

8 years - $400M

Anyway, all the technology in the world doesn’t change that the story and quests sucks.

 

[StealthGoblin]

You don't have to be an expert to have an opinion.

I don't know the ins and outs of game development, but is valid criticism to point out that there are too many loading screens, the animations are janky in places, the character models are ugly in places etc.

Bethesda have gotten off very lightly with reviewers and the public at large with prior releases and 'scale' isn't a valid defense for everything. If you don't want to be criticised for those elements, scale the ambition back.

 

[Filben]

I don't get these kind of defensive dev posts. If you REALLY want to make players understand, do an honest making of so we really now what happens. Otherwise it's just something like "I have something to say but I don't say it. You're just dumb!".

And of course 99% of devs don't want to make bad games. It's also not animator #8 or texture artist #4 who's the issue. Mostly it's a management issue with unclear or too big of a scope and/or the lack of a real focus and listening to intelligent reviews and gamers from the past instead of just mixing together what other games have done and wish for the best. Also, vision alone get you only so far. And if Todd keeps telling us how amazing everything is going to be but it'll be far from the truth (again) I don't have to know "how it is to develop a game" because it's enough to know how a game shouldn't be.

 

[Complistic]

He says it's all right to criticize the game, but gets upset when people call the game, "outdated".

 

[NEbeast]

Its time for Bethesda to shut up. Were they always like this? or is this the first time they are being called out for making a shit game?

It's the first time I can remember. People used to chalk it up to "Bethesda charm". That was fine ten years ago - with modern games being as good as they are (mostly) people are sick of being fed crap like this. I think redfall launching just before Starfield also kicked the hornets nest. Starfield is just an OK game, people expected much more in 2023.

 

[Valonquar]

He's comparing AAA game development to being at a craft fair and someone saying "$20 for a scarf??? I could make that myself." He can fuck right off.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Problem with starfield is the shitty game engine, it looks nice but it really wasnt made for something in the scale of starfield

Engine is just half of it. Stone Age quest design, awful writing and world building didn’t help the empty feeling moment to moment gameplay either.

So you can hoard items and load screen into empty tiles with nothing to do. Wow such exploration.

The game has no redeeming qualities at all.

 

[Lunarorbit]

It's hilariously frustrating to go to the other site and read the copium that is happening over there.

I bring this up cause there are alot of devs that still use that site and they don't get it at all. Your customers want you to do better and all you can say is we don't know shit about the industry.

Fuck you. I've played games for 35 years and can judge when a product is failing and not living up to expectations. The amount of knowledgable people on gaf is staggering and some of the threads show a deep technical knowledge of the industry.

Your engine is archaic. The character design is uninspired. The lighting sucks and makes backgrounds look washed out.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

2023 and they still can't make faces that look normal