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[fran.fernandez]

Neogaf is disconnected

 

[Dr.Morris79]

They are hurt by all the criticism Starfield is getting. Flash news: people care about the end result no how the sausage is made.

Woke types can't handle criticism, at all

You're at fault and that's all there is to it. Now pay up and like it.

 

[Topher]

 

[Gavon West]

It doesn't matter how much effort you put into making a game or movie, if in the end if it's crap, then it's crap.
Stop trying to blame the public for the failures of the developers.

I bet that if Pagliarulo guy went to a restaurant and someone served him a 70$ steak , that was as badly cooked as his game, he would throw a fit and insult the chef.
No other industry demands such leniency from consumers, as much as the gaming industry.
As if we had to accept mediocrity as the standard for games.

Stopped reading after "it doesnt matter you put into making a game or movie". You're clearly not someone I'm talking to and OBVIOUSLY have no respect for the grind it takes to entertain you as a consumer. We can agree to disagree. Take it light...

 

[winjer]

Stopped reading after "it doesnt matter you put into making a game or movie". You're clearly not someone I'm talking to and OBVIOUSLY have no respect for the grind it takes to entertain you as a consumer. We can agree to disagree. Take it light...

Let me remind you that game devs are not the only people working hard in this world.
Seems to me you have no respect for your customers and to how much it costs to buy games.

 

[Laptop1991]

Yeah this is Bethesda's attitude now and they have been this way for quite a while, they use to put their fans first, over 10 years ago, now its our fault their inferior games aren't doing well, we are just customers now but we aren't even getting what we want, a new TES, 15 to 20 years is ridiculous, which they know full well but don't care about, they deserve the criticism

 

[Gavon West]

Let me remind you that game devs are not the only people working hard in this world.
Seems to me you have no respect for your costumers and to how much it costs to buy games.

As I said before, you have a right to your opinion but it doesnt make it any less wrong.

 

[winjer]

As I said before, you have a right to your opinion but it doesnt make it any less wrong.

You have to be very narcissistic to think you are right and everyone else is wrong.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Gavon West]

You have to be very narcissistic to think you are right and everyone else is wrong.

You have to be hard at reading comprehension if thats what you pulled from my statement. I'm over it bro. Do you.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Yes, and it’s if I was able to pay money for his game and then move on and forget about it, he should be able to move on as well.

This is despite him not knowing what it took for me to buy the game and find time to play 60+ hours.

 

[MiguelItUp]

To be fair, no one outside of the industry will truly understand what goes on within the walls of a studio, be it a developer or publisher. If you've worked in software, or something adjacent, you may have an idea. But games is also very, very different in a number of ways. You can't expect consumers to just "get" it all.

Him saying this is pretty silly to begin with. He should've just kept it to himself. No matter how it's diced, if the public doesn't find a game "good" then it's not good. That's just how it is. It doesn't matter if anything is intentional or not.

 

[gothmog]

I read his rant last night. I'm really not sure why he wrote it other than maybe there's some internal pressure to move on from the old guard for TESVI?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Tg89]

These dudes need to just shut up at this point.

As a consumer, you’re right, I don’t really know the intricacies here. As a consumer, I also don’t care. The quality of the end product is all I care about, how they get there is not my concern.

Do other games not face these issues? Maybe they just made the wrong choices and compromises. Todd hyped this as the greatest game ever, it wasn’t even a top 30 game this year. Those other games seemed to manage and navigate those same issues just fine.

 

[Guerilla Munch]

that's a pretty cool story but No Man's Sky generates an infinite universe and has seamless transitions from space to planet and was developed by 9 people in 3 years and it runs on a Switch Lite

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Atrus]

The theorizing stems from facts and would not be hypothesized about had Bethesda no produced factually a lazy and outdated product.

He should be focussed on why people are doing that instead of playing their game.

 

[Sushi_Combo]

Fire Lying Todd.

Consumers don't give a flying fuck about your mismanagement. If the game was good, consumers would be "engaged"

 

[cireza]

Pretty poor comment from the guy in OP really. Sounds a bit like an asshole actually.

And technology is not something to be overcome, it is actually a means to achieve something. This part alone shows how much developers are completely missing the point, because they design games and then try to force them into smaller boxes, while they should actually be designing around the small boxes to begin with. So what should have been a tool for them, instead became an obstacle because they aren't even capable of acknowledging and designing around the constraints they have.

 

[VideoGameEnjoyer]

This is getting really pathetic.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

It doesn't matter how much effort you put into making a game or movie, if in the end if it's crap, then it's crap.

As someone who has been involved in quite a few things that garnered bad reviews, this is absolutely correct. People just have a hard time taking responsibility when things go sideways. I know because I've been in that position.

It also helps to not promise your customers a Ferrari and deliver a 2008 Prius.

 

[AJUMP23]

I loved Starfield, but it damn sure could have been better. I don't need to know how games are made to formulate that opinion.

I think it is great too. But here are some things about it that do not make it as compelling as Skyrim, Oblivion or Fallout 3.

 

[LordCBH]

edit: ignore this one. It posted twice for some reason.

 

[LordCBH]

It’s the way it is because you designed a mostly boring game, Mr lead game designer.

If they dropped the retarded ass worlds that felt procedurally generated and focused on a smaller list of planets that were actually curated like the main cities, game would’ve been a banger.

Oh and cut the base building. It’s been ass in all the games Bethesda has put it in. They aren’t good at it.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

This is becoming a recurring thing with the gaming industry, of releasing a sub-par game, then blame it on gamers. Or even other devs, for making good games.
No other industry has people with such thin skin and constantly whining about any criticism being leveled at their work.

A bit of apathy towards those types would be interesting. Far too often the tail wags the dog these days and it seems to be forgotten that they expect people to pay for what they have made. I’d be interested to see how they would behave if a large portion of gamers stopped buying, showed interest or even communicated with them and that’s not aimed solely at Bethesda but a fair number of them.

The signs were there when downloadable demos became less of a regular occurrence and instead sent preview codes to sell out people who are labelled influencers who clearly act in their own self interests which is why I don’t get why so many look to them for purchasing decisions.

 

[cash_longfellow]

Well, he's right about forums and social media being full of "backseat" developers who actually haven't got a fucking clue how a lot of this stuff is made, to be fair...

Still doesn’t make the game any better though.

 

[Boss Mog]

I'm disappointed that it took 18 replies before this was posted.

 

[Gambit2483]

So you didnt use creation engine simply because it was cheaper, easier and more convenient?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This legit makes me want to hate the game, eventhough I will likely replay it once it comes to PS5 (it will happen).

Shut up and do better. Take the criticisms to heart. Focus less on quantity and more on quality. It would have been a FAR more effective game if there had been fewer planets and much greater exploration. Lack of an incentive to explore is what did this game in for me and made it a 7/10 instead of a 9/10. All the jank and silly conversation perspectives I could have put up with, if I could wander and find all new quests, but no it was land on a planet and find some random generated bases.

 

[Flabagast]

The guy is starting to have a really ugly resume (Fallout 4, 76, Starfield) and he is the main writer of these games that were all known for their awful bottom of the barrel writing. He is part of the problem unfortunately (even though he seems like a really nice guy), and he must be starting to realize it

 

[mayham2199]

Actually agree with him about gamers speaking with complete authority. I saw this so much when developers were saying that the series S was an issue and didn't have enough RAM. You had gamers coming out of left and right saying the devs were lazy, didn't know what they were doing, etc.

I think BG3 was the first time they shut up because they realized you can't call a dev lazy or say they don't know what they are doing when other devs are saying the game is to good and not to expect the same level of quality from them.

 

[Bernardougf]

Easier job ever.. just rehashing the same models and designs for what now five games ? Four ? ...

 

[Gavon West]

Fire Lying Todd.

Consumers don't give a flying fuck about your mismanagement. If the game was good, consumers would be "engaged"

The game is good. People are engaged. GaF doesn't change that. Again, it's doing very well, doesn't need to be saved, still topping the charts. Come out of your vacuum here. GaF is an echo chamber of epic proportions. You guys actually believe the game flopped despite the empirical date that states otherwise. Fucking bizarre behavior.

People are literally overlooking all evidence that points to the contrary in order to paint this narrative that Starfield wasn't successful. It's VERY successful. Like, what else do you need? Look at the numbers jfc. People are STILL talking about it and it's been four months. What other game has had this much conversation for this long in gaming? What's even crazier, over half of you Kats believe what you're saying. That's crazy...

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Wow, this thread is hilarious.
It looks like nobody is reading, unsurprisingly, he literally says you're allowed to complain, criticise, or dislike a game.
Just not to speak with authority about why things are the way they are.
"I hate this game!" is ok
"this game sucks because of x, and x is the way because they obv went for y, oh and lazy devs." is not, unless you have documentation that proves this.

 

[Seider]

Bethesda should switch to Unreal Engine 5, just as CD Project Red did.

 

[Reaseru]

See gamers, you're the ones at fault. Not the "Our game does everything, even makes coffee - 2 months ahead of release" mentality.

We just expect to much.

 

[FeralEcho]

Sounds like neither did the game awards commitee since it didn't win a fucking thing

Obligatory:

 

[Solidus_T]

How people continue to support this dev when their leadership has pure contempt for people who buy their games is beyond me. BGS is going to war to with their fans on all fronts - the press, reviews on steam, and even monetarily with mod support for 12 year old games. They could learn from Tango, the studio that they bought!

 

[GymWolf]

Do you need to be a chef to know that poo is not a good ingredient to use?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The horrendous space travel has nothing to do with the devs give and take of resources.

Bethesda started with a different idea that didn’t work out and didn’t bother to redesign space travel.

I do expect Starfield to be good in two years after the modding community fixes this mess

I'd love to know how we can realistically expect them to fix exploration such that it is fun.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

They are never going to improve if this is their mentality. Elder Scrolls VI is fucked.

 

[GeoramA]

Bethesda is the new 343, yikes.

 

[Fabieter]

So they can't take the critism because they always got a past for 4 decades now. Its not a bad game but to call gamers dumb aint it mate.

 

[Pagusas]

I might not know how a twinkly is made, but I know when it doesn't taste right. Saying "oh well you don't know what into making that" doesn't make it taste any better.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Easier job ever.. just rehashing the same models and designs for what now five games ? Four ? ...

I think more, the original engine was made for Morrowind:

Oblivion
Oblivion DLC
Skyrim
Skyrim DLC
Fallout 3
Fallout DLC
Fallout NV
Fallout NV DLC
Fallout 4
Fallout 4 DLC

It's 5 if you count only mainline entries.

 

[Raven117]

Yeah, and there are alot of other developers that can pull it off.

No, gamers don't know all it takes, but they do know end products. The Starfield end product was simply not as good and dated when compared to other games.

So...yeah. Maybe they just need to realize that their last excellent game was over a decade ago, and they have lost their pedigree status.

 

[Fess]

I loved Starfield, but it damn sure could have been better. I don't need to know how games are made to formulate that opinion.

Yeah that’s my take too. 200+ hours and it’s my GOTY right now but I don’t need to hear defences from the devs on things that could’ve been better.
Just go back to work and stick to the plan to keep improving it. There will always be haters no matter if it’s an universally praised 11/10 game, no point trying to talk to those people. Talk to fans instead and show that you really mean what you say when you say you’ll keep working on it for a long time. A teaser trailer for the modding tools would be cool. A teaser trailer for the expansion. Let the modding community beta test the mod tools, evolve them using fans. I’d be glad to try anything even if I’ve never made a mod in my whole life.

 

[Ammogeddon]

Sheer fucking hubris.

Starfield’s issues are more about bad decisions than game development.

 

[Jigsaah]

On the one hand...sure the dev is right. I don't know how the sausage is made, but I can tell when something doesn't taste right. It may be my own personal preference but you can't tell me the dull story was a consequence of a tough design decision. That's just a lack of talent and creativity. I've said before about Starfield...I'm genuinely interested in the concept of the story

Spoiler: Spoiler

Parallel Universes, space powers, multiple "me"

, but its the delivery that's just dated. I applaud Starfield for the advancements they did make. The combat is better than anything they've ever done, the graphics are better than anything they've ever done, the ship building very unique and intuitive, the base building is both classic and the best they've ever done but the full package just isn't there. A lot of the vitriol stems from the immense hype the game produces along with the controversy. Expectations were sky high and even though Bethesda didn't oversell it, people's imaginations ran wild with the possibilities only to be met with an average or maybe a bit better than average experience.

Starfield, to me, isn't a bad game...but it's story, the game's connectivity and it's scale betrays what has made games like Skyrim great. Where is my equivalent of Dawnbreaker in Starfield? The Ebony blade, the blade of woe, Mehrunes' Razor? The special weapons you get in Starfield are just variants of the base weapons. You telling me that's a tough design decision? Or is that a clear lack of creativity that was even included in Fallout 76?

They need to take a page from CD Projekt Red's book. Sit down, shut up....take the players feedback seriously instead of responding with canned messages possibility AI generated bullshit and actually fucking listen to us. Jesus Christ what is with these devs. They want our money and we are more than willing to keep pre-ordering shit, sitting through unfinished game after fucking game and then they have the gall to tell the consumer what and what not to think. SHUT THE FUCK UP! So sick of this.