Support NeoGAF

[Mully]

There were "good Nazis" too.

There were also horrible US and Royal infantrymen, but let's demonize all cops because that makes sense. There are many shit cops and cop culture is despicable, but it's irrational to villainize every cop.

 

[cyberheater]

The bold is exactly why you would indict.

Don't see the point if there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction. And yes. It's a totally shitty situation.

 

[commish]

Coroner ruling it a homicide was obvious but doesn't equate to murder or manslaughter. The saying "All murders are homicides but not all homicides are murders." applies here. Every police killing = homicide. Doesn't mean it cannot be justified.

However, I do agree that there should have been an indictment base on the evidence. The video clearly shows an officer using an inappropriate technique that caused the death of a person.

Uh, I'm not sure you know what homicide means.

Anyway, this is just more bullshit.

 

[Mononoke]

Or good cops, like folks in my family. Who agree that the Nation's police are out of control, and are actively pursing change.

There are cops that quit the police force, because of how fucked it is. You get disillusioned pretty quick when you go into it, and see how insane and fucked it can be (people covering up, the Unions protecting them no matter what happens. Being asked to keep silent).

 

[googleplex]

I can see his point of view.

Lots of contradictory eye witness statements in the Ferguson case. There was not a meaningful chance of a conviction.

Just like this case, that police offer will never go to trial to answer for his actions.

 

[Vylash]

will open season on us ever end?

 

[Christopher]

Oh boy...my heart stopped oh boy

 

[timetokill]

You know a ruling is bullshit when the police are preparing for protests and riots ahead of time.

 

[Hot Coldman]

I remembered first reading about this case. It read like a fucking nightmare. Like, the worst possible thing that could happen to you.

Now this, this really brings that feeling full circle.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I can see his point of view.

Lots of contradictory eye witness statements in the Ferguson case. There was not a meaningful chance of a conviction.

But this shows that even WITH absolute concrete visual proof the man wasn't resisting, wasn't fighting or trying to hurt the officers that there is still NO JUSTICE for Blacks regarding cops that do shit like this.

I'll say what I said in a post yesterday. It's not just about Ferguson. It's not just about Mike Brown. This issue has been going back decades. Shit, centuries.

It's about Trayvon Martin,
It's about Abner Louima,
It's about Latisha Harlins,
It's about Sean Bell,
It's about Oscar Grant,
It's about Orlando Barlow,
It's about Aaron Cambell,
It's about Victor Steen,
It's about so many men and women I could go on for pages...


It's about the BLATANT systemic discrimination against men and women of color that simply doesn't consider the life of a black person to be worth much and that has been going on for centuries and people want to pretend it didn't exist then and doesn't exist now. Then get bent out of shape when people scream at the top of their lungs: "Hey, this is a problem...please change your policies because we're dying out here." And do we get any type of conversation about the issue? Do we get a sit down w/ the power structure to come up with some small steps we can start with? No. We get told to pull up our pants, stop listening to rap and to stop calling each other "nigga". Or that we're the racists for pointing out systemic racism to begin with...

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Goddammit.

 

[Mononoke]

Not as ridiculous as the American Justice System.

Yeah it is. You are insane if you think this country needs no law enforcement, and that it doesn't play a vital role in society. If you think the system is broken and fucked, I 100% agree. But again, saying killing all cops will solve problems and saying they are Nazis is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

[cyberheater]

That entire grand jury was a sham from beginning to end. Multiple witnesses say differently with unconstitutional instructions presented to the grand jury and a cop with a sketchy history and a record of lying and a ridiculous story of a black man charging a police officer after being shot. but the case will never see a fair trail.

If you're fine with that you're part of the problem. PERIOD.

What are you doing about it?

 

[TheJLC]

Uh, I'm not sure you know what homicide means.

Anyway, this is just more bullshit.

What does it mean? It only means the act of a human killing another human being. People use it to replace murder when that's not the proper usage of the word in the legal sense.

 

[CharlieDigital]

Charles Barkley's thoughts http://youtu.be/Ukk67DOJhLA?t=3m30s

Watching that video, I can't help but think of a recent piece I heard on NPR The Myth of the 'Superhuman' Black Person:

KELLY HOFFMAN: There's a long history of the super-humanization of blacks So going all the way back to slavery. And then with - physicians, you know, in the late 1800s, early 1900s characterized blacks as having these magical bodies that were able to withstand pain and surgical procedures. And then today in contemporary times, blacks are portrayed as super-human in a lot of the media.
...
HOFFMAN: In another two studies, we showed participants pictures of black and white people and asked them which of these people was more capable of, for example, running beyond the speed of light or suppressing their hunger and thirst. And what we found is that people chose the black person with those super-human qualities more so than the white person.​

Don't know how I feel about the Barkley statements or this case, but you can definitely get a sense that maybe this effect really does skew how blacks are treated.

 

[Cyan]

you're a mod...

?

 

[googleplex]

Or good cops, like folks in my family. Who agree that the Nation's police are out of control, and are actively pursing change.

If these good cops aren't speaking out publicly then whats the point?

 

[B-Dubs]

Coroner ruling it a homicide was obvious but doesn't equate to murder or manslaughter. The saying "All murders are homicides but not all homicides are murders." applies here. Every police killing = homicide. Doesn't mean it cannot be justified.

However, I do agree that there should have been an indictment base on the evidence. The video clearly shows an officer using an inappropriate technique that caused the death of a person.

The coroner said the cause of death was a chokehold, we have video of the cop putting him in a chokehold. We know that cops haven't been allowed to use chokeholds for 21 years. Don't give me that tautology stuff.

 

[Zeke]

That cop was found guilty because it was pretty obvious:



This case the chokehold was used, but he was not choked to death. It was definitely a contributing factor. After the hold was released, the general techniques used by police are quite harsh and once you are deemed to have resisted, they don't let up.

It's refreshing he was found guilty but a handcuffed man on his stomach was still muerdered. Being a minority and dealing with please can be a very scary situation. I have had police tell me they would empty their entire service pistol into me if I didn't comply. To protect and serve indeed! I avoid police like the plague doesn't matter where I am.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Welp.... here we go.

Apparently anything to do with tobacco will end up with a cop killing you.

 

[Tamanon]

I can understand if after a trial, a jury found him not guilty because of circumstances.....maybe. But to find that no crime even occurred is baffling and infuriating.

 

[quickwhips]

But this shows that even WITH absolute concrete visual proof the man wasn't resisting, wasn't fighting or trying to hurt the officers that there is still NO JUSTICE for Blacks regarding cops that do shit like this.

I'll say what I said in a post yesterday. It's not just about Ferguson. It's not just about Mike Brown. This issue has been going back decades. Shit, centuries.

It's about Trayvon Martin,
It's about Abner Louima,
It's about Latisha Harlins,
It's about Sean Bell,
It's about Oscar Grant,
It's about Orlando Barlow,
It's about Aaron Cambell,
It's about Victor Steen,
It's about so many men and women I could go on for pages...


It's about the BLATANT systemic discrimination against men and women of color that simply doesn't consider the life of a black person to be worth much and that has been going on for centuries and people want to pretend it didn't exist then and doesn't exist now. Then get bent out of shape when people scream at the top of their lungs: "Hey, this is a problem...please change your policies because we're dying out here." And do we get any type of conversation about the issue? Do we get a sit down w/ the power structure to come up with some small steps we can start with? No. We get told to pull up our pants, stop listening to rap and to stop calling each other "nigga". Or that we're the racists for pointing out systemic racism to begin with...

I'll read up on the rest but Martin was killed by a racist not a cop.

 

[Smokey]

So blessed and thankful to be a black guy in the USA.

 

[Branduil]

Yeah it is. You are insane if you think this country needs no law enforcement, and that it doesn't play a vital role in society. If you think the system is broken and fucked, I 100% agree. But again, saying killing all cops will solve problems and saying they are Nazis is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Well yeah, the Nazis were eventually held accountable for their actions.

You're missing the point of the thought experiment, which is that the police are actively making the country worse rather than better, to the point that the country would massively improve if they all just disappeared and could be replaced with people who aren't monsters.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

Time to put the cameras on cops.

 

[Mononoke]

If these good cops aren't speaking out publicly then whats the point?

They do, there are organizations where Cops come together and protest. That said, the reason most people don't speak out is because even if they did speak out, they would get run out of the department and crushed.

I agree that morally, it's not an excuse. I would say most people probably just keep their head down because they care about keeping their job. And that is fucked. But even if they did speak out, its' not going anywhere when you have a Union and department who don't want to get sued and who will do everything to keep things covered up and quiet.

Anyways, no one should be using the excuse of "good cops" to excuse "bad cops" or the system not being fucked.

 

[spindashing]

Well, fuck. I certainly didn't want to be reminded of the Abner Louima case...

Ridiculous reality we're living in...

 

[danwarb]

Time to put the cameras on cops.

This was recorded. Didn't help.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Justice System: Black people should stay home because the police can legally kill you if you have your hands up, or are lying on the floor.

 

[B-Dubs]

Time to put the cameras on cops.

This entire thing was caught on camera...

 

[TarpitCarnivore]

Time to put the cameras on cops.

The NYPD are doing a trial program but as evident by this case it's going to mean shit because he still didn't get indicted.

 

[KingGondo]

The fact that the people (I'm guessing citizenry, in this case) decide the laws. They don't. The officials the people elect do. And the officials can decide the laws however the hell they want. The third quote came off like America is a democracy like ancient Athens was a democracy. The people don't directly vote on legislation and I refuse to subscribe to the line of thinking that once you are an elected official you are still a member of "the people."

You're taking his quote far too literally.

Laws are a social construct. They reflect who we are, what our values are, and what we think is important. But they're not applied equally for all people (hence his statement about blacks getting the vote in the 1860s meaning precisely jack shit). In some cases, they aren't applied at all.

It's becoming increasingly clear that society at large is pretty much OK with cops having the power to kill with impunity in spite of whatever any statute says. We've assented to it as a society.

The problem isn't the cops. The problem is society.

 

[Xando]

Always blows my mind that similiar to the ferguson case this isn't even about conviction but about opening a case.

Why not let a judge decide?

 

[Ronin Ray]

Good lord...



I plan to just go limp and collapse to the ground if ever confronted by cops. It's the only way...

maybe.

They will just taze you on the ground and say it was to make sure your still alive.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Resisting arrest is no excuse to be murdered. Nor is it relevant in this discussion.

First sentence true. Second sentence false.

 

[commish]

What does it mean? It only means the act of a human killing another human being. People use it to replace murder when that's not the proper usage of the word in the legal sense.

NY Law:

S 125.00 Homicide defined.
Homicide means conduct which causes the death of a person or an unborn
child with which a female has been pregnant for more than twenty-four
weeks under circumstances constituting murder, manslaughter in the first
degree, manslaughter in the second degree, criminally negligent
homicide, abortion in the first degree or self-abortion in the first degree.

Edit: For the sake of clarity, being ruled a "homicide" by the coroner doesn't automatically make it a "homicide" - I agree with that. But it IS meaningful, and it would definitely be considered as evidence in a case.

 

[Mononoke]

Well yeah, the Nazis were eventually held accountable for their actions.

You're missing the point of the thought experiment, which is that the police are actively making the country worse rather than better, to the point that the country would massively improve if they all just disappeared and could be replaced with people who aren't monsters.

I agree that getting corrupt people out of their jobs and getting new people in there, would make things better. But I disagree that making all cops die or disappear over night would suddenly make things better. Having no law enforcement would not make things better. You are delusional if you don't think that law enforcement in the greater context don't do a lot of positive things for society.

Again, people that point towards good cops OR the system doing positive things to distract and say the system isn't broken or doesn't have systematic problems, are a problem. They are wrong. But flat out saying that law enforcement does nothing, and doesn't play a vital role is wrong too.

 

[DietRob]

I'm really upset. Like unable to put into the proper type of words about how upset I am. So much for body cameras on the police the shit will not matter. Obviously didn't here. I'm upset that ONLY NOW has this become a 'boiling point' issue here in the US. Black folks have been getting profiled, brutalized, and murdered by the police for decades and nothing fucking happens.

When the fuck will something happen? When white people start giving a shit?

 

[googleplex]

I'll read up on the rest but Martin was killed by a racist not a cop.

The same systematic and systemic racism and biases are at work .

Travon Martin was not an unarmed kid, confronted and killed by an armed stranger with a history of violence. He was painted at a drug using thug that got what he deserved.

Same cases, different faces.

 

[danwarb]

Always blows my mind that similiar to the ferguson case this isn't even about conviction but about opening a case.

Why not let a judge decide?

Harder to get away with it with a Judge. Maybe they think it looks worse?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

I'll read up on the rest but Martin was killed by a racist not a cop.

It's a point about the value of black lives in the eyes of the court (and by extension, society), not the identity of those who take it.

 

[cyberheater]

It's about the BLATANT systemic discrimination against men and women of color that simply doesn't consider the life of a black person to be worth much and that has been going on for centuries and people want to pretend it didn't exist then and doesn't exist now. Then get bent out of shape when people scream at the top of their lungs: "Hey, this is a problem...please change your policies because we're dying out here." And do we get any type of conversation about the issue? Do we get a sit down w/ the power structure to come up with some small steps we can start with? No. We get told to pull up our pants, stop listening to rap and to stop calling each other "nigga". Or that we're the racists for pointing out systemic racism to begin with...

It's pretty bad what's happening in the US relative to the deaths of black people by the folks entrusted to protect you.

Folks will only put up for so long.

 

[commedieu]

If these good cops aren't speaking out publicly then whats the point?

Fuck the cops speaking publicly. How about everyone else? Why do we need special voices to note murder is murder? You know full well people don't come forward in PD because of the corruption/intimidation. Its been documented, and is always documented. Its a mafia at this point. Honest Q though, why do we need to wait for certain sources to deem that the sky is blue?

Why do black people need to vote in order to not have police killing them like animals?

Its about time black people come up with their own protection force. Black Panthers need to start doing private security for black areas, and if you ever have a problem, call them. Don't call the police. When you're black its a 90/10 chance you'll be killed anyway for breaking into the house you're reporting a crime. I mean, I'll wait out for Obama to do anything remarkable, or Eric Holder, but this is out of control, and has been.

Or a virtual world where our consciousness is uploaded to a computer. I don't have all the answers.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I'll read up on the rest but Martin was killed by a racist not a cop.

See! That's the point. It's not just about "cop". It's about a racist power structure that undervalues Black lives. Cops are only one facet of that racist power structure. Zimmerman still had the support of that racist power structure. Hence why the dead kid gets screened for drugs and the man that kills him didn't.

 

[SliceSabre]

Shit like this is why my father, who is black, quit the force when I was a kid. He and his partner used to drive by a known drug house in the neighborhood and someone would throw a paper bag into their car when they drove by. Inside was a bunch of money. Silence money. Dad reported it but it didn't go anywhere and the other cops didn't like him and thought of him as a snitch. He eventually quit because it just got to be too much for him because it was clear the other cops wanted him gone.

Cops are corrupt as hell because the good cops are driven away because if you ever decide to go against the Blue Shield your career is over. As far as I'm concerned until their system is fixed, everytime something bad happens to ANY cop its just karma coming back at them.

 

[B-Dubs]

First sentence true. Second sentence false.

What the cop did to him was illegal and wound up killing him. There's no circumstances that could possibly change that.

 

[Bluekaveli]

There were "good Nazis" too.

I can't right now

 

[DrFunk]

https://twitter.com/NYPDCommAffairs/status/540232202051915777

 

[Sai-kun]

Where is the outrage over this? There are no conflicting witness testimonies. There is no "speculation" over what may have happened. There is footage of the police choking him to death after he begs them to stop.

I'm trying so hard to be upset, but I'm just sad, honestly.

I'm very, very sad.

 

[BennyBlanco]

There were "good Nazis" too.

Wow. Unbelievable.