Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
BIDU timbers down 15% in AH on poor outlook.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Stock-Age: Stocks, Options and Dividends oh my!
- Thread starter koam
- Start date
Question for fellow options traders. Let's say you want to buy stock via options plays. Would you prefer to write a short-term, cash-secured put, or go long on a long-term call? I'm thinking that if I want to do this on a regular basis, I should do the latter so I don't get killed by the constant assignment fees. It would also seal up my position without tying up a lot of money. But on the other hand, getting the stock earlier means I get a constant cash flow from writing options, and I'm making money off the play instead of spending it.
You think the stock price is bubbly? I tend to look at the price of a stock (a quality stock) prior to the financial crisis. So that would be around Summer '07. However, you can say that the market was kind of inflated even back then.Tarazet said:
The price of DEP reached its low in November '08 way before the March '09 lows. I can see it reaching the levels of its peak in July 2007. It did bounce nicely off its MA back in July and could be on its way down but who knows.
But in any event, I like the yield (8%) and P/E (9), plus the stock doesn't look extremely erratic. Like you mentioned before, their balance sheet is clean...but more importantly (well at least to me) is the company's liquidity (cash flow).
They report earnings tomorrow and it is the ex-dividend date as well. Analysts are looking for 33 cents.
Laughing all the way to the bank.
If you are short term trading you will find nothing better than commodities futures and FX derivatives especially if you like the fantasist technical analysis voodoo.
Derivatives are untouchable. Provided you know what you're getting yourself into.
Buying physical securities, there is only one method that works and that's Ben Graham's value style as showcased by Buffett-Munger.
If you are short term trading you will find nothing better than commodities futures and FX derivatives especially if you like the fantasist technical analysis voodoo.
Derivatives are untouchable. Provided you know what you're getting yourself into.
Buying physical securities, there is only one method that works and that's Ben Graham's value style as showcased by Buffett-Munger.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
What a shit day. Most of way I own was down 6%.
Maxwell House
Member
I think we bounce a bit here but I think we have started on our next big leg down. I expect us to hit 900 on the SP500 before we see 1100 again.
Maxwell House
Member
That's not true. You can make a ton of money with any instrument. People make a killing swing trading securities as well (200%+ a year)>avaya said:
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Man I did good selling RTP at 200
But for everything else...
But for everything else...
Gummifaust
Member
What tools/website do you guys use to keep track of your stocks? My online broker unfortunately always logs me out after a short period of time.
Gummifaust
Member
Tarazet said:
Google Finance is lacking in terms of European stocks/marketplaces. :/
ChefRamsay said:
I sold out on the open and lost 66% but luckily it was a small side investing since I just had extra cash in my account.
Damn my portfolio was valued up to almost $17K again and now I'm back down to the $14k.
I'll see what happens on the OTC but then again I'm kinda wary on how to play OTC stocks.
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
ATVI down 4%. Why?
China clamps down on Activision's top online game
Blergh
Meanwhile, UBI shares keep tumbling. They fell with the markets a year ago, didn't rise when everyone did, and now fall with the markets again. Terrible. To think it was worth over three times as much. Hopefully AC2 will do well.
China clamps down on Activision's top online game
Blergh
Meanwhile, UBI shares keep tumbling. They fell with the markets a year ago, didn't rise when everyone did, and now fall with the markets again. Terrible. To think it was worth over three times as much. Hopefully AC2 will do well.
tarius1210 said:
I got in at around 1.10 with luckily only 750 shares.
Right now I've been losing bad on Fannie and Freddie.
Recently I got in with BYD automotive at under 9 and got out once it hit 11.50 ish.
If I can gain a bit with my Baidu shares I'm getting back into BYD since its back in teh 8-9 range.
I put together a spreadsheet showing the potential returns you can get with buy/write positions. I do, however, have some things to point out before I share it.
- I put the premium received as the midpoint of the buy/ask when I was checking it today. The actual price you can sell your options for will vary enormously depending on a variety of market factors.
- Commission rates are based on E*Trade's standard customer trading rates. If you trade frequently, have large asset holdings or use a different broker, your commission structure may be very different.
- The rate of return will be tempered by variation in the stock price. If it goes up higher than the strike price, you will get the exercise return rate and no more; if it goes lower than when you bought it, then the return you get from writing the options may not cover the loss, especially if you are writing short-term options. Shorter terms produce more attractive return profiles at significantly greater risk. I've learned this the hard way with UNG. However, the upside risk is theoretically less with short-term options just because the stock has less time to soar to the heavens and leave you behind.
- For the Nov 09 options, the limitation here is that there are only 12 options cycles in a year; so the annualized return rate is correct, but only for 204 days out of the year if you always buy 17 days from expiration. This calendar limitation will have the same impact, to a lesser extent, to the return rate of all the positions listed.
- The dividend rate depends on actually holding the shares on the ex-dividend date. If the buyer of the call is a dick and exercises the option before the ex-dividend date, buying your shares, then you can lose the dividend. This is less of a risk with longer-term options.
- I included BRK.B (Berkshire Hathaway) just for giggles. You would need $1.7M to be able to write the positions I'm including; I put it on the list just to illustrate the returns you get with more rarefied companies. BRK.A does not have options associated with it, by the way.
So with that large amount of fine print out of the way, here you go. I made this file in Excel, so the formulas didn't transfer over to Google. If you want to check my math or run your choice of stocks through it, send me a PM.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkjAeRFe1HKNdHMzSjc2cVF6U3RBWG95ejR5NUxWWVE&hl=en
- I put the premium received as the midpoint of the buy/ask when I was checking it today. The actual price you can sell your options for will vary enormously depending on a variety of market factors.
- Commission rates are based on E*Trade's standard customer trading rates. If you trade frequently, have large asset holdings or use a different broker, your commission structure may be very different.
- The rate of return will be tempered by variation in the stock price. If it goes up higher than the strike price, you will get the exercise return rate and no more; if it goes lower than when you bought it, then the return you get from writing the options may not cover the loss, especially if you are writing short-term options. Shorter terms produce more attractive return profiles at significantly greater risk. I've learned this the hard way with UNG. However, the upside risk is theoretically less with short-term options just because the stock has less time to soar to the heavens and leave you behind.
- For the Nov 09 options, the limitation here is that there are only 12 options cycles in a year; so the annualized return rate is correct, but only for 204 days out of the year if you always buy 17 days from expiration. This calendar limitation will have the same impact, to a lesser extent, to the return rate of all the positions listed.
- The dividend rate depends on actually holding the shares on the ex-dividend date. If the buyer of the call is a dick and exercises the option before the ex-dividend date, buying your shares, then you can lose the dividend. This is less of a risk with longer-term options.
- I included BRK.B (Berkshire Hathaway) just for giggles. You would need $1.7M to be able to write the positions I'm including; I put it on the list just to illustrate the returns you get with more rarefied companies. BRK.A does not have options associated with it, by the way.
So with that large amount of fine print out of the way, here you go. I made this file in Excel, so the formulas didn't transfer over to Google. If you want to check my math or run your choice of stocks through it, send me a PM.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkjAeRFe1HKNdHMzSjc2cVF6U3RBWG95ejR5NUxWWVE&hl=en
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
Baker Hughes net income falls 87%
Down almost 6% today:|
ATVI in the 10$ range, getting sued again, Who isn't suing them? Someone's bound to win eventually. Plus, they are in so much shit if things get fixed for WoW in China. Bobby Kotick is really a terrible CEO. ATVI's recent success has nothing at all to do with its management, quite the opposite, anything done by the management turns to shit.
Down almost 6% today:|
ATVI in the 10$ range, getting sued again, Who isn't suing them? Someone's bound to win eventually. Plus, they are in so much shit if things get fixed for WoW in China. Bobby Kotick is really a terrible CEO. ATVI's recent success has nothing at all to do with its management, quite the opposite, anything done by the management turns to shit.
Rocksteady33
Junior Member
I'm trying to do a homework assignment and I have to look at a company and its competitors and how they have done over the last 12 or so years. My teacher said total return to shareholders would be a good measure. I want to show this in a graphical form and he suggested MorningStar.com but I can't figure it out for the life of me. Does anyone know a good way to generate graphs based on total return to shareholders Southwest Airlines?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Stocks are on a high rush today. I wonder if it will end over 10,000?
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
EA laying off 1500 people more. I still own my ATVI and TTWO shares, both in the green at least.
I hope AC2 will do well. I'm afraid the sales won't be as high as AC1 even if the game is great, because of how crowded 2010 will be, effectively eating away at its potential 2010 sales:|
I hope AC2 will do well. I'm afraid the sales won't be as high as AC1 even if the game is great, because of how crowded 2010 will be, effectively eating away at its potential 2010 sales:|
Ether_Snake
å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®å®
THQI jumped 6% today for whatever reason.