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[Ohnonono]

I play a ton still. I suck though!

 

[kirblar]

That's true. But it got more noticeable with some of the nerfs in the 2013 version to the ranges on moves.

This is due to limitations on just how much they can alter in a patch.

 

[biosnake20]

Great way to punish tag outs.

 

[Shouta]

There was always an illusion that this game was way too defensive. Its not and never was. Sure, you had things like cross counters and DP tags to get out of trouble. But getting in was always easy and only a few characters were defensive specialists. The majority of offense came from close-range footsies and boost combos.

You want a real defensive game? ST. Depending on the matchup you can literally be SCREWED just by guessing wrong at the start of the match. No long jumps, no dive kicks, no AA's trading to save you.

I think people who complain that xT was too defensive need to face an ST Guile player for a few hundred matches. This game has always rewarded offense, and much more so now.

Jin, Lili, Hwoarang, Kazuya, Law, and Chun-Li are generally viewed as the top characters. Minus Chun they're all offensive powerhouses.

Whut. 2012 SFxT was FAR too defensive. Boost chains were safe and unpunishable meaning any random normal you throw out could be canceled into it and there'd be nothing your opponent could do. True the damage has been in the game since 2012 but being able to land it when you should be able to is now in the game. You couldn't land half the shit with the Tekken cast in 2012 because the SF half had better normals and free pressure plus had anti-airs that worked.

Great way to punish tag outs.

SPDs are also an amazing way of winning, lol.

 

[kirblar]

I'm rewatching the GF for WNF and I hear "Futile doesn't know how to fight against Lars" come out of the commentary booth.

My jaw actually dropped, because Futile had been jumping out of Valles' Lars blockstrings/rekkas/whatever they are to avoid the mix-ups, which I've never seen anyone else do.

 

[narcosis219]

Great way to punish tag outs.

Oh my god dat PANDORA DORYA. 31:00ish

 

[Horseress]

I'm rewatching the GF for WNF and I hear "Futile doesn't know how to fight against Lars" come out of the commentary booth.

My jaw actually dropped, because Futile had been jumping out of Valles' Lars blockstrings/rekkas/whatever they are to avoid the mix-ups, which I've never seen anyone else do.

I didn't watched wnf this week. The SfxT matches are worth watching?

 

[stn]

Whut. 2012 SFxT was FAR too defensive. Boost chains were safe and unpunishable meaning any random normal you throw out could be canceled into it and there'd be nothing your opponent could do. True the damage has been in the game since 2012 but being able to land it when you should be able to is now in the game. You couldn't land half the shit with the Tekken cast in 2012 because the SF half had better normals and free pressure plus had anti-airs that worked.

Its not like the Tekken cast didn't have these safe strings, however, except they also had/have high-low mix-ups to boot. Not to mention that you had to get in to use the boost strings, so the game was still more offensive (minus, say, Rolento and a few exceptions).

The main source of damage came from close-range combat.

 

[inanutshell]

Its not like the Tekken cast didn't have these safe strings, however, except they also had/have high-low mix-ups to boot. Not to mention that you had to get in to use the boost strings, so the game was still more offensive (minus, say, Rolento and a few exceptions).

The main source of damage came from close-range combat.

The issue is that since the best capcom characters had 3 frame normals that could lead to boost combos, it wasn't worth being offensive because one gap in your attack would result in you losing 300-400 life. Capcom nerfing the speed and/or length of these moves have made it easier to apply pressure on offense.

 

[kirblar]

I didn't watched wnf this week. The SfxT matches are worth watching?

It's just WF/LF/GF, so yeah. Mike Ross/Futile/Valle.

 

[EsotericManiac]

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about the tekken characters being "too good" when most of the top finishers have at least 1 SF character on their team.

 

[kirblar]

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about the tekken characters being "too good" when most of the top finishers have at least 1 SF character on their team.

Because you actually have to learn (via experience) how to play against the Tekken characters, but with a cast this large, getting the exp in is pretty difficult.

 

[EsotericManiac]

Because you actually have to learn (via experience) how to play against the Tekken characters, but with a cast this large, getting the exp in is pretty difficult.

This is true for any fighting game though, no?

I think the people that have this problem are people coming from SF, feeling comfortable fighting against SF characters, then not knowing what's safe with these tekken characters.

Tekken has this type of thing a lot.

 

[Ohnonono]

Because you actually have to learn (via experience) how to play against the Tekken characters, but with a cast this large, getting the exp in is pretty difficult.

Aye this. If I hit a Tekken character I don't have many games against things can go downhill very quickly. I don't think they are actually better though. Once you do know how to fight them its all the same.

 

[EsotericManiac]

I'm of the belief that Sf characters have much better normals and footsie game than tekken characters. The tekken cast does have H/L mixups, but most can be broken up, or at worst back-dashed/alpha countered.

I think people are lazy, don't want to learn new characters, or too lazy to learn the matchups

 

[Horseress]

I'm of the belief that Sf characters have much better normals and footsie game than tekken characters. The tekken cast does have H/L mixups, but most can be broken up, or at worst back-dashed/alpha countered.

I think people are lazy, don't want to learn new characters, or too lazy to learn the matchups

I couldn't agree more. People will figure it out someday

 

[EsotericManiac]

I couldn't agree more. People will figure it out someday

Meanwhile I will win with Hwoarang shenanigans

 

[Skilletor]

I'm of the belief that Sf characters have much better normals and footsie game than tekken characters. The tekken cast does have H/L mixups, but most can be broken up, or at worst back-dashed/alpha countered.

I think people are lazy, don't want to learn new characters, or too lazy to learn the matchups

I agree with you 100%.

 

[stn]

The issue is that since the best capcom characters had 3 frame normals that could lead to boost combos, it wasn't worth being offensive because one gap in your attack would result in you losing 300-400 life. Capcom nerfing the speed and/or length of these moves have made it easier to apply pressure on offense.

Yeah, I agree. All I'm saying is that most of the damage generated was still due to melee and not ranged combat. There's more of Kazuya and less of Guile, know what I mean?

Replying to some other posts in general, the thing with Tekken characters is that they have some ambiguous attacks. You can face the same character 100 times in a row and still get hit with a high-low string if you don't react fast enough. That gives them fantastic opportunities for damage.

The SF cast is generally much more predictable and relies more on footsies for damage, hence why I think its appropriate for them to excel at that and zoning (not so much zoning anymore, however).

Some characters on the Tekken side received a bit too much in terms of defense. Did Kazuya really need a good AA? He already had and still has some of the best offensive tools in the game. Add in his amazing j. RH and you should be getting in all day. He's insanely hard to keep out as it is, why make it even harder to get in on him now?

There are some characters that just aren't meant to have good AA's, good wake-up, and so forth. Paul didn't need faster walkspeed, he's supposed to be a hard-hitting reserve (battery?) capable of dealing insane damage. As a guy who plays Paul I'm glad he got buffs, but he's good enough to hold his own. Same thing with Steve, for example.

Most of the Tekken cast is way too capable for dealing with everything. Some of the SF nerfs I understood (Zangief, Cody, Hugo) but still feel that Capcom went way overboard. And it seems to be reflected in the tiers and professional play. Dieminion drops Guile, Infiltration and Gootecks drop Rolento, and so forth. I haven't seen much of Ryu, either.

Heck, even I've been experimenting with Ogre and Paul on the side. The Tekken cast is just too good. Lili, Hwoarang, Jin, Kazuya, and Law are definitely the top characters. I just don't see how people can argue that the SF side is stronger when SF characters got nerfed on average, and the Tekken cast didn't.

You want rushdown and intense pressure? Lili. Frame-traps? Jin. Dorya? Kazuya. Damage? Kuma and Steve.

I don't know, what am I missing? This game feels like TxSF in terms of overall balance distribution.

 

[supahkiwi]

This game is fucking garbage. Just not well made. These hitboxes...

Note to capcom, if you make another derp offense game, give us more movement options other than jump back hardkick to get out of pressure.

Alpha Counter, Raw Launcher, Reversal Tag Canceling, Backdashing, Forward rolling

What else do you want fucking need? Autoblock gems?

 

[kirblar]

This is true for any fighting game though, no?

I think the people that have this problem are people coming from SF, feeling comfortable fighting against SF characters, then not knowing what's safe with these tekken characters.

Tekken has this type of thing a lot.

It's not though- because while Tekken has this type of thing a lot - SF does not. The tekken strings (and inherent mix ups) are very new, and very hard to deal with without a lot of matchup knowledge.

The big problem is that 2012 just killed casual interest in the game, so people never got the exposure to things they'll need to face competitively.

 

[Shouta]

Its not like the Tekken cast didn't have these safe strings, however, except they also had/have high-low mix-ups to boot. Not to mention that you had to get in to use the boost strings, so the game was still more offensive (minus, say, Rolento and a few exceptions).

The main source of damage came from close-range combat.

Most Tekken strings aren't actually safe as they aren't true block strings. Most have gaps that you can EX or just reversal through them to stuff their shit.

I agree with you that the game is offense orientated, mostly because the system gives you more options on the whole (rolls, moves to go through projectiles) but the 2012 was too defensive for the wrong reasons.

And Tekken characters are stronger on the whole but most of the SF cast are no slouches. The game is built on their combat system and there are a lot of adjustments (and nerfs) that make them playable within the context of this game. The big thing is that a lot folks don't really do stuff that takes advantage of it yet. A few people have started and I think those guys are having the most success in the game currently. The best Guy and Guile player I've seen are from my area, and they've both integrated the changes into the play style they used and are making the most of it and very effective as a result.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Don't care how skilled you are: that Hwaorang 2-hit chain into overhead is fucking bonkers to block. Especially on wakeup.

 

[Shouta]

MP -> LP?

That's actually really easy to block but it's mostly getting experience against it rather than trying to react. If you see a st.lk (which is a standing low, I think) when you're blocking low then immediately stand afterwards to prevent that overhead from hitting. If you see a stand MP too, do the same thing.

 

[Takamura-San]

2013 for PC still MIA?

 

[Nyoro SF]

MP -> LP?

That's actually really easy to block but it's mostly getting experience against it rather than trying to react. If you see a st.lk (which is a standing low, I think) when you're blocking low then immediately stand afterwards to prevent that overhead from hitting. If you see a stand MP too, do the same thing.

You make it sound so easy. It is lightning fast. The best answer is just to backdash, Hwaorang doesn't have good backdash chasing options.

 

[kirblar]

You make it sound so easy. It is lightning fast. The best answer is just to backdash, Hwaorang doesn't have good backdash chasing options.

This was why Futile's play on WNF was such a revelation to me- the marvel Maxim of "Just don't be there for the mixup" actually seems to apply to some of the Tekken cast's stuff.

 

[Ohnonono]

I'm of the belief that Sf characters have much better normals and footsie game than tekken characters. The tekken cast does have H/L mixups, but most can be broken up, or at worst back-dashed/alpha countered.

I think people are lazy, don't want to learn new characters, or too lazy to learn the matchups

I agree with this. I am trying to learn some Tekken characters because they are fun and pretty flashy but when I play Cammy people get so frustrated with just MK and HP constantly poking them. I beat some super scrubby shoto player with Cammy and all I used was HP. They rage quit .

 

[Shouta]

It's surprisingly easy actually but it really is just a matter of playing ridiculously annoying Hwos since the game released. >=( That and I use that overhead too, lol.

The other one he has, I have a bit more trouble with because I flinch thinking the opponent did another move, lol.

 

[Ohnonono]

I think Christie so far is the hardest for me to figure out while in a match. She just constantly moves and has that delayed overhead thing. I get my ass melted by a very average Christie.

 

[Shouta]

Christie's Stinger? The one where she reels back and swings forward with both arms? The normal version isn't an overhead but the EX one is.

 

[EsotericManiac]

Being a Hwoarang player, that chain saw kick never works, but I have learned some setups to make it work more

Jump in lp-> mp, MK, MK (hold down-forward (cancels into FLA, Cancels FLA with crouch) cr.lp - > chain saw kick

his overheads generally only work when the opponent is low on health and in "super block mode/i need to switch"

Hwoarang play, IMO, is completely revolved around tekken chains into dash cancels.

A tekken chain, into a dash cancel, into instant dive kick is GDLK

 

[Ohnonono]

Christie's Stinger? The one where she reels back and swings forward with both arms? The normal version isn't an overhead but the EX one is.

Well that helps. Doesn't she also have a move where she ends up in a handstand and then has a delayed overhead where she kicks with both feet? I could be wrong.

 

[Shouta]

Well that helps. Doesn't she also have a move where she ends up in a handstand and then has a delayed overhead where she kicks with both feet? I could be wrong.

Yeah, her handstand. She has a few options from that, so you gotta be careful her front flip from that is an overhead, as I recall.

 

[Ohnonono]

Yeah, her handstand. She has a few options from that, so you gotta be careful her front flip from that is an overhead, as I recall.

I think the answer in this game is just to play the damn character for a week or so and learn that way. Christie here I come!

 

[EsotericManiac]

Took me forever to get good with Hwoarang's normals. I love AA with his cr. MK, into HP dash under, into full combo.

No one expects that from Hwoarang

 

[Ohnonono]

Took me forever to get good with Hwoarang's normals. I love AA with his cr. MK, into HP dash under, into full combo.

No one expects that from Hwoarang

I can beat Hwoarangs that spam overheads and supers. I can't beat the ones that can use his whole toolkit. His damage seems crazy sometimes. Not that everyone in this game doesn't blow people up.

 

[J10]

When's the Namco version coming?

 

[EsotericManiac]

I can beat Hwoarangs that spam overheads and supers. I can't beat the ones that can use his whole toolkit. His damage seems crazy sometimes. Not that everyone in this game doesn't blow people up.

I almost never use his chain saw kick as people are always ready for it. I actually find it better to not use the move and have people worry about it as it makes my low jabs that much better.

His best over head is F+Mk, canceled into FLA, canceled into cr.lp. It's a 2 frame link but its not bad.

I've never seen people insta-dive kick on wake up either. I'm trying to add it to footsies and blocks strings like

cr.lp, cr.lp, down-back to up-forward HC dive kick.

move crushes a lot of low moves and its quite easy to combo afterwards.

 

[NEO0MJ]

When's the Namco version coming?

That's a good question. They just finished TTT2 and I doubt they can get it ready by the end of 2013. Maybe early 2014?

 

[Shouta]

I can beat Hwoarangs that spam overheads and supers. I can't beat the ones that can use his whole toolkit. His damage seems crazy sometimes. Not that everyone in this game doesn't blow people up.

Damage in general, for everyone is crazy.

Most Hwo's don't do his solo combos which is a shame because in some instances, you don't want to switch characters. Ex Hunting Hawk is solid damage for one bar (400-500) so there's no reason to switch unless you really need it.

 

[EsotericManiac]

Damage in general, for everyone is crazy.

Most Hwo's don't do his solo combos which is a shame because in some instances, you don't want to switch characters. Ex Hunting Hawk is solid damage for one bar (400-500) so there's no reason to switch unless you really need it.

As said before, I'm not a fan of EX Hunting Hawk unless my anchor is near death, and even then.

Ex Hunting Hawk scales a ton if you hit confirm from a light. If I do a Heavy HH into tag (Law), law can pretty much push them the entire screen into the corner (J.HP, Cr or S.HP, into flying side kick combo)

 

[supahkiwi]

Being a Hwoarang player, that chain saw kick never works, but I have learned some setups to make it work more

Jump in lp-> mp, MK, MK (hold down-forward (cancels into FLA, Cancels FLA with crouch) cr.lp - > chain saw kick

his overheads generally only work when the opponent is low on health and in "super block mode/i need to switch"

Hwoarang play, IMO, is completely revolved around tekken chains into dash cancels.

A tekken chain, into a dash cancel, into instant dive kick is GDLK

I usually condition my opponent to blow low if they're blocking the MP>LP. Just do:

cr.lp, cr.mp, cr.mp, cr.rh (hit confirmable too) or cr.lp, cr.mp, cr.rh (you can cancel those into dynamite heel or lk. hunting hawk)

After a hk.hunting hawk, hwoarong has some pretty sick setups. I usually go for:

(hk. Hunting hawk knowndown) lk. hunting hawk, lk. hunting hawk, backjump and then quickly cancel it into air raid (must be blocked high, +2 on block so you can continue your pressure strings).

 

[EsotericManiac]

Its much better to hp. Dash twice to corner push them IMO. I also use the tiger knee dive kick as its never expected either.

 

[F33L]

no pc yet

 

[SUPARSTARX]

I wished specials could cancel into supers. I wonder why they didn't leave that in? Everything else is basically in.

 

[Ohnonono]

I ranked up last night! This I am sure means nothing to most of you good players but FINALLY getting ranked up was satisfying! The run I went on to do it started by just playing Cammy/Christie to learn Christie's crap. Turns out its cooky enough that I tore through some people. Time to aim for C rank! Reach for the stars lol!

 

[EsotericManiac]

I ranked up last night! This I am sure means nothing to most of you good players but FINALLY getting ranked up was satisfying! The run I went on to do it started by just playing Cammy/Christie to learn Christie's crap. Turns out its cooky enough that I tore through some people. Time to aim for C rank! Reach for the stars lol!

I'm 6.5k from Master. I was on a tear for a while, but PSO2 has thrown a huge wrench in that. I was able to amass about 600-700 bp on Friday.

 

[J10]

I ranked up last night! This I am sure means nothing to most of you good players but FINALLY getting ranked up was satisfying! The run I went on to do it started by just playing Cammy/Christie to learn Christie's crap. Turns out its cooky enough that I tore through some people. Time to aim for C rank! Reach for the stars lol!

Don't rank up too high and then get matched up with A+ players all day every day like I do. Miserable.

 

[Ohnonono]

Don't rank up too high and then get matched up with A+ players all day every day like I do. Miserable.

I try not to sweat losing too hard. That said I think I am a while from hitting A+ people. I put it on any level opponent once and beat a B player. Lost to a lot of people too though, lol!