Study Finds White Americans Believe They Experience More Racism Than Black Americans

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Mumei said:
This isn't actually new; I've seen articles about this study since 2011.

It isn't difficult to understand it, I don't think. We live in a highly segregated society, where it is easy for white people to not witness anti-black racism. If you are a white person who doesn't ever see anti-black discrimination, and who interprets attempts at ameliorating existing barriers, such as affirmative action programs or diversity goals, as evidence of anti-white bias, it's easy to see how there are white people who mistakenly believe that anti-white racism is a bigger issue.

This is one of those times where it is appropriate to talk about privilege. In this case, a white person who believes that anti-white racism is a bigger problem for white people than anti-black racism is for black people is making assumptions based on their experiences as a white person, experiences which are effected by their racial privilege that largely insulates them from issues of racism. This means - quite naturally - that they have a skewed understanding of racism, which causes them to misunderstand and misinterpret programs designed to address racial inequality.

The solution there is pretty simple - that person should step back from his experiences and instead look at more objective measures of discrimination faced by black people.

I have family members who are convinced that anti-white discrimination is dire, and it's completely connected to their unwillingness to look outside their own thought processes and sets of assumptions to see that their experiences might not be relevant to a particular discussion, and might even lead them to incorrect conclusions about the experiences of other people.
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This is a really good post and I have a personal story to add to it. A long story short, I was driving a white friend to his hometown late night once. This was a multi hour drive and on a weekday because of a late notice quasi-emergency thing. My out of state plates were expired and I was pulled over by a cop for it. I was entirely polite to the cop in explaining why we were driving, but he had me go out of the car. For about 20 minutes or so, the cop basically tried to get me to admit that I was selling drugs, in particular weed. After 20 minutes of questioning me about drugs, he went to the passenger side window, spent less than 30 seconds talking to my friend, and told me to be on my way.

My friend was legit shook and actually apologized for the experience. He said he'd never seen anything like it. I told him he didn't have to apologize since he didn't do it. Growing up in a rural part of the state, he mostly had white friends so it was an eye-opening experience for him.
 
daveo42 said:
It's that feeling that society still holds you responsible for the sins of your fathers. It's probably similar to the feeling that some Germans may have had after WWII because of the crimes against humanity caused by the Nazis. You did nothing wrong, but there's that nagging feeling that you're still to blame for mistakes that happened before you were even born.
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I hate this excuse.

Black people today never owned slaves either. Yet they still have to feel the effects of it.
 
obijkenobi said:
This is a really good post and I have a personal story to add to it. A long story short, I was driving a white friend to his hometown late night once. This was a multi hour drive and on a weekday because of a late notice quasi-emergency thing. My out of state plates were expired and I was pulled over by a cop for it. I was entirely polite to the cop in explaining why we were driving, but he had me go out of the car. For about 20 minutes or so, the cop basically tried to get me to admit that I was selling drugs, in particular weed. After 20 minutes of questioning me about drugs, he went to the passenger side window, spent less than 30 seconds talking to my friend, and told me to be on my way.

My friend was legit shook and actually apologized for the experience. He said he'd never seen anything like it. I told him he didn't have to apologize since he didn't do it. Growing up in a rural part of the state, he mostly had white friends so it was an eye-opening experience for him.
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I had something similar happen to me, actually, and it was an eye-opening experience for me, too, even as someone who was sort of vaguely aware of those things.
 
daveo42 said:
It's that feeling that society still holds you responsible for the sins of your fathers. It's probably similar to the feeling that some Germans may have had after WWII because of the crimes against humanity caused by the Nazis. You did nothing wrong, but there's that nagging feeling that you're still to blame for mistakes that happened before you were even born.
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Society is at fault and they're a part of society. And it's not just blacks either, but all minorities.

If you're feeling guilty, good. If you want to help change the bullshit status quo, better.
 
Blearth said:
I hate this excuse.

Black people today never owned slaves either. Yet they still have to feel the effects of it.
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It's not an excuse. Living people shouldn't be blamed for sins others committed in the long past.

The problem is that none of this is an issue of blame. There was a long period of time where a group of people was held back, and now live in poverty with poor education and still face some of that same racism today. The people that aren't racist aren't to blame, but it's irrelevant because the point of all of the programs is to get blacks on an equal footing with whites, which they should have been without the racism of the past. Racism is dying, but even when its dead it's not like the systemic effects of it disappear overnight. It'll take more than a generation for that to happen.
 
Ekdrm2d1 said:
Must be nice.
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It kinda is.

obijkenobi said:
This is a really good post and I have a personal story to add to it. A long story short, I was driving a white friend to his hometown late night once. This was a multi hour drive and on a weekday because of a late notice quasi-emergency thing. My out of state plates were expired and I was pulled over by a cop for it. I was entirely polite to the cop in explaining why we were driving, but he had me go out of the car. For about 20 minutes or so, the cop basically tried to get me to admit that I was selling drugs, in particular weed. After 20 minutes of questioning me about drugs, he went to the passenger side window, spent less than 30 seconds talking to my friend, and told me to be on my way.

My friend was legit shook and actually apologized for the experience. He said he'd never seen anything like it. I told him he didn't have to apologize since he didn't do it. Growing up in a rural part of the state, he mostly had white friends so it was an eye-opening experience for him.
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Mid 90s, I was in high school in MS. 5 of us were riding around in a friend's lowered pickup truck. Driver was white, passenger in cab with him was black, and of the 3 of us riding in the open bed in back, I was the only other white guy. We get pulled over, I think cause it was just illegal to have passengers in the back like that, which is fine. Cops end up calling for backup, so 2 cars and 4 cops(all white) are on site. They have all of us get out, talk to the driver briefly to check license, registration, etc. Meanwhile, two cops have asked the 3 black guys to stand against the truck so he can frisk them, and is just badgering them with questions in general. I'm being completely ignored. Other white guy is told to go stand by me where we still get ignored. Cops never ask me a single question or touch me at all, and aside from ticketing the driver, nothing happens to him either. Our friends had nothing on them of course, so they eventually let us all go. I was completely shocked, but my friends didn't even blink an eye over the incident. I filed a complaint with the police department, but nothing ever happened. It's one of the biggest factors that drove me to join the military and leave MS.
 
Sensationalist title, small study and sample size. I guess the author of the article (not the study) has probably gotten a lot of views though.
 
I find there is a significant amount of stupid white people that feel like they're being targeted as the bad guys. I get this from my redneck family rather frequently; war on christmas, war on white people, war on traditional family values, war on the wealthy (none of them have shit for money), war on male rights. Its amazing how they twist their perception of the world to come out as the victim in everything.
 
Trey said:
Society is at fault and they're a part of society. And it's not just blacks either, but all minorities.

If you're feeling guilty, good. If you want to help change the bullshit status quo, better.
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Why would I feel guilty? I didn't do anything wrong and don't approve of the behavior of society and the way they treat minorities.
 
American racial relationships always seem very very tense, honestly, and i have to imagine that the opinion of the white people who were part of the study was shaped more by their limited access to interracial communication (which i suspect is common among the more easily discernible races and associated cultures), and in that sense the study sheds more light on the degree and quality of intercultural relationships than on the realities of institutional (and more immediate forms of) racism. I don't think racism (in its most strict definition) will ever disappear, and i have to imagine that throughout the planet you can probably find any conceivable race suffering one or more incarnations of racism in some shape or form (that articles often fail to mention that the universe of American racial relationships is unique and ought to be dealt as such, instead using universal terms like "white", "black", "asian", and so on, whereas in other cultures/countries you can be fifty different kinds of white/black/asian, is a bit of a personal annoyance, but heh).

I do wonder what efforts (and their quality) are being done through education and other social efforts directed at those of younger age to empower kids to have the vocabulary and the knowledge to have a good understanding of race and race associated cultures.
 
Angelus Errare said:
Honestly I think some of you guys are kind of being jerks right now. Being white in America can be much harder than being black. Have you ever been with a group of minorities as the only white person and simply felt out of place? Or how about being in New York and being stopped and frisked as a white person because they look at the color of your skin and assume you're a gangbanger with drugs in his pocket? Or how about being white and shopping at Barney's only for cops to detain you once you leave the store because you looked suspicious? How many black people can say they've faced that? Exactly. Or how about the cops harassing you constantly?

Have you guys ever been denied a job because of your skin color or name? Because that's what being white is about. Have you ever had people clutch their purse and walk to the other side of the street? Of course not, and at least your youth can walk down of their neighborhood with their Arizona tea and skittles and not be shot. White kids are a target in today's society. I mean in the news a few months ago a white teen girl was shot for simply knocking on someone's door to ask for help. Many white people are born into very poor areas of the US and they basically have to raise themselves. It also doesn't help that many people use white people as scapegoats for crimes. Blacks have it on easy street compared to white people. There's a reason it's called black privilege and not white privilege. Young white girls are basically told they aren't shit and are ugly by American standards of beauty (Read: black women). You have many white youth hating their white skin wishing they were black or darker skinned so they don't feel like social outcasts and so they feel they're more beautiful.

At least when you're black you're treated as an individual and not a hivemind, I can't tell you how annoying it is to read news articles about some sort of crime happening then people in the comments section and on GAF and other places make stupid statements like "is there something in white culture that makes kids like this?" I get tired of people blaming violence on pop music it's so frustrating. Like everyday many people carry the weight of the entire white community on their shoulders and have to go out of their way to not be threatening to everyone

Rosie Pelhman told people no when she was told to give up her seat to a black man because she shouldn't have to just because he's black. Martin Larry Kreuger made an amazing speech called "A Midsummer's Dream" in which he wanted black people, white people, Asians and others to live together and not be judged by the color of their skin. I mean it wasn't even 60 years ago when white people had to eat/drink/use different restrooms than black people, racism is never going to truly go away and it's a damn shame.

Don't even get me started on Hollywood and the horrible roles white people get compared to black people. Mightey Blackey? White Face? Ugh this country I swear.
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Said this before, but I love your posts in racial issue threads.

Hopefully this puts things into perspective to people, because nobody has said that whites don't experience racism, but fuck. This idea that it's even REMOTELY similar is beyond ridiculous.
 
I know I'm setting myself up for selective quoting, but so much of the friction involved in this discussion could be resolved if we as a society could just realize that sometimes racism is justified. Racism is discrimination on the basis of race. 90% of the time it's used to oppress, so the word automatically has a negative connotation now. But sometimes, racism is not wrong, and is completely justified, such as affirmative action, which discriminates against whites on the basis of our race. That, by definition, is racism, yet many people--myself included--feel it's justified racism.

The word racism has become so associated with oppression that whites feel oppressed when racism is used against them. So from these pollster's perspectives, they see racism against blacks being universally condemned (they don't see the institutionalized racism on the law enforcement level), and being called unconstitutional; and they also see that affirmative action is often championed by the government. So from their perspectives, they're seeing gov't-sanctioned racism (not entirely true, but regardless) against whites, and gov't condemnation of racism against anyone else. The gov't being the most powerful entity, the pollsters (incorrectly) feel like they're the only race oppressed by the most powerful entity, and thus are the most oppressed. Why? Because affirmative action is racism, and it's assumed that racism is always bad, when sometimes it's not (but should always be viewed with very strict scrutiny, due to the propensity for abuse). Yes, that means that sometimes at a university a middle-class black guy will given preference over a poor white guy with the same credentials. But unfortunately, policy is never perfect, and so far, we don't really have a better solution.

All this back and forth friction could be solved if we, as a society, could just acknowledge that sometimes--albeit rarely--racism is justified. Instead, right now we basically have people shouting at each other, "That's racist against whites" "No it's not, because the policies justified, so it's not racist" "Yes it is, because it's discrimination against whites" "No it isn't..." etc. In reality, yes, there is a lot of racism against whites, and some of it is justified by a Greater Good principle.
 
I experience racism when I go to Chinese/Korean restaurants. I order something spicy and it comes out tasting like they only added black pepper.

And yes, some white people DO like jellyfish salads.
 
When I see White Americans shrunk to a minority group (like 20% of population), struggle to have representation in media, and automatically associated with inferiority, illegitimate intentions scum, then maybe I will take this survey seriously.

I hope most people aren't forgetting that that attitudes the fueled Slavery lived through other moments in history and are still around today.
 
eudaemonic said:
I experience racism when I go to Chinese/Korean restaurants. I order something spicy and it comes out tasting like they only added black pepper.

And yes, some white people DO like jellyfish salads.
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All my non-Asian friends look at me funny when I tell them I have eaten jelly fish. :(
 
I feel the study should seperate eastern european, and the Irish from "white" as those groups (plus italians) have had a large amount of racism against them from white people over the course of American history, and most of those groups still feel like outsiders.


However, white people haven't been discriminated against more than any black american.
 
I had some homeless dudes call me (not sure if this is bannable or not) "white devil" once as I was leaving a high end department store. I'd put that up against any 'discrimination' faced by anyone on this forum. The security guard who held the door for me was appalled, too.
 
abe_bly said:
Racism is still very much an issue, and white people don't have it as bad as others, but how does that make posting an image like this okay? This is a textbook example of anti-white racism.
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i think stereotyping is the appropriate word. there's nothing racist about that gif. the words "racist" and "racism" are used in situations that they don't actually apply to far too often these days...
 
Aylinato said:
I feel the study should seperate eastern european, and the Irish from "white" as those groups (plus italians) have had a large amount of racism against them from white people over the course of American history, and most of those groups still feel like outsiders.
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It's a survey of 417 (half black, half white) people about their changing attitudes from the 1950s to 2000s. I doubt they could divide anyone into further smaller groups - the study is already shaky enough with only 400 people.

23 (out of 209) of the (now) old white Americans said whites were very much a target of discrimination. I am sorry but the conclusions being drawn here by people are just absurd.
 
MikeHaggar said:
i think stereotyping is the appropriate word. there's nothing racist about that gif. the words "racist" and "racism" are used in situations that they don't actually apply to far too often these days...
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Just because there are ways to neutrally or positively stereotype doesn't make an act of negative stereotyping towards a specific race not racism.
 
SleepyJohn11 said:
When I see White Americans shrunk to a minority group (like 20% of population), struggle to have representation in media, and automatically associated with inferiority, illegitimate intentions scum, then maybe I will take this survey seriously.

I hope most people aren't forgetting that that attitudes the fueled Slavery lived through other moments in history and are still around today.
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Jesus H Christ man, slavery ended like 600 years ago!
 
MikeHaggar said:
i think stereotyping is the appropriate word. there's nothing racist about that gif. the words "racist" and "racism" are used in situations that they don't actually apply to far too often these days...
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I'd have to agree. I have seen people use stereotype jokes to try and cover up their racism though. :/
 
abe_bly said:
Just because there are ways to neutrally or positively stereotype doesn't make an act of negative stereotyping towards a specific race not racism.
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i'd argue that there needs to be the implication that said race is "inferior" or "superior" to another in order for it to actually be racism. otherwise, it's just stereotyping. that gif doesn't imply white people are inferior or superior to any other race as a result of being "f***ed up"
 
PogiJones said:
All this back and forth friction could be solved if we, as a society, could just acknowledge that sometimes--albeit rarely--racism is justified. Instead, right now we basically have people shouting at each other, "That's racist against whites" "No it's not, because the policies justified, so it's not racist" "Yes it is, because it's discrimination against whites" "No it isn't..." etc. In reality, yes, there is a lot of racism against whites, and some of it is justified by a Greater Good principle.
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Nah, b. Racism is racism. Oppression is oppression. Affirmative action isn't racism. It's a response to racism. It discriminates in order to apply pressure on the status quo, the latter of which was built squarely atop racism and oppression.
 
Are the white people fat? Because I'm pretty sure it's been proven that fat people are the most descriminated against. Right? Or am I remembering that wrong?
 
freenudemacusers said:
I had some homeless dudes call me (not sure if this is bannable or not) "white devil" once as I was leaving a high end department store. I'd put that up against any 'discrimination' faced by anyone on this forum. The security guard who held the door for me was appalled, too.
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I was going to respond seriously, then I saw who made the post.
 
SillyEskimo said:
Are the white people fat? Because I'm pretty sure it's been proven that fat people are the most descriminated against. Right? Or am I remembering that wrong?
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I think poor people are the most likely to be fat in America, so I'd wager white Americans actually have a lower % of their population being obese thanks to economic inequality. Last I checked cheap fast food and soda portions was the root cause of America's obesity problem.
 
Palmer_v1 said:
It kinda is.



Mid 90s, I was in high school in MS. 5 of us were riding around in a friend's lowered pickup truck. Driver was white, passenger in cab with him was black, and of the 3 of us riding in the open bed in back, I was the only other white guy. We get pulled over, I think cause it was just illegal to have passengers in the back like that, which is fine. Cops end up calling for backup, so 2 cars and 4 cops(all white) are on site. They have all of us get out, talk to the driver briefly to check license, registration, etc. Meanwhile, two cops have asked the 3 black guys to stand against the truck so he can frisk them, and is just badgering them with questions in general. I'm being completely ignored. Other white guy is told to go stand by me where we still get ignored. Cops never ask me a single question or touch me at all, and aside from ticketing the driver, nothing happens to him either. Our friends had nothing on them of course, so they eventually let us all go. I was completely shocked, but my friends didn't even blink an eye over the incident. I filed a complaint with the police department, but nothing ever happened. It's one of the biggest factors that drove me to join the military and leave MS.
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How did your friends react to that situation after the fact? That kinda stuff sticks with you for life.

Mumei said:
I had something similar happen to me, actually, and it was an eye-opening experience for me, too, even as someone who was sort of vaguely aware of those things.
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What a shitty situation. I left out that when he had me wait outside in 20 minutes, it was in shorts and a shirt in 50 degree October weather in Michigan. I was freaked out and cold, and I'm sure that's a technique they use to get people to trip up.

I once had a lady follow me for about a block, tap me on the shoulder, and ask me if I was "one of THOSE Arabs". I'm Latino. I work for the state that I live in. (Not that it should have mattered, but in that story about the cop, he asked me what I did and I told him I worked for the state. My white passenger identified himself as a member of the naval reserves. He still had me out of the car)

Again, I'm sure white people are discriminated against in meaningful ways beyond comedy skits. At the same time, I'm sure its nowhere as systematic as it is against minorities. And "whites" still "win" when it comes to the real meaningful metrics that matter (wealth, education, and health) so I'm not sure this is a huge issue
 
CRD90 said:
Silly white people.
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I am not silly, I am hilarious! I would never ever agree to this, I have not seen any racism in front of my face before, but I don't believe that we face more racism then blacks or anyone else. That's just ridiculous...

Hell I'm a gay dude and I have yet to experience anyone persecute me because of my sexuality.
 
tjohn86 said:
This.

I know we are having fun being riled up but a sample size that small isn't really worth talking about.
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The sample size might be OK actually. The subject matter is more questionable.

You could reword the conclusion to say "White people get defensive when asked about race and Black people are so used to racism their answers are relatively flat."

I think the research at first blush looks fine, but the nature of the subject is a social awkwardness that is being repeated even in this thread.
 
FODEA said:
It's a survey of 417 (half black, half white) people about their changing attitudes from the 1950s to 2000s. I doubt they could divide anyone into further smaller groups - the study is already shaky enough with only 400 people.

23 (out of 209) of the (now) old white Americans said whites were very much a target of discrimination. I am sorry but the conclusions being drawn here by people are just absurd.
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You are giving people too much credit. How many people do you think actually read the whole study. You know, all 5 pages of it
4 if you don't count the references
.
 
Trey said:
Society is at fault and they're a part of society. And it's not just blacks either, but all minorities.

If you're feeling guilty, good. If you want to help change the bullshit status quo, better.
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Why should you, I, or anyone need to feel guilty about anything from the past when we had no part in it? Changing the status quo is good, but doing it out of personal guilt is wrong and no one should feel personally responsible unless they themselves are racist.

Blearth said:
I hate this excuse.

Black people today never owned slaves either. Yet they still have to feel the effects of it.
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Not meant as an excuse at all. You, nor I, nor anyone should have to feel in anyway responsible for it or feel the personal and societal effects of it. That sad truth is that this is not the case.
 
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