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Super Mario 3D Land |OT| Jump Into a New Dimension!

T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Togglesworlh said:
Wow, you are quite the character. I don't know why I even try to talk to people like you. You're deliberately ignoring half of what I say, so we're done.
Click to expand...
He's not ignoring what you're saying, he just disagrees with you. Some people think the 3D helps with basic aspects of the game, such as depth perception on jumps, and others don't. In my experience the added assistance is fairly minor so I can understand both viewpoints.

You are arguing that the 3D only adds to the gameplay in the few situations where it is explicitly obvious, such as the bonus rooms. He is arguing that it helps throughout the entire game.

Just agree to disagree.
 
T

Togglesworlh

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
He's not ignoring what you're saying, he just disagrees with you. Some people think the 3D helps with basic aspects of the game, such as depth perception on jumps, and others don't. In my experience the added assistance is fairly minor so I can understand both viewpoints.

You are arguing that the 3D only adds to the gameplay in the few situations where it is explicitly obvious, such as the bonus rooms. He is arguing that it helps throughout the entire game.

Just agree to disagree.
Click to expand...

No, what I'm saying is that there's nothing done in this game that couldn't be done before (except those obvious spots, obviously!).
me said:
I just don't see how any of it, other than the few instances of gimmickry - note that I don't really mean this in a negative way - that I mentioned before, is anything that couldn't be done before.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between the two positions. He is ignoring this and pretending I'm saying something I'm not. Not to mention his response to my first post, which was nothing if not dickish.

Conversations about conversations are stupid, though. I only responded to you because you seem perfectly civil. We should stop now. :D (oh no now i'm the passive aggressive one, albeit unintentionally)
 
T

The_Darkest_Red

Member
Togglesworlh said:
No, what I'm saying is that there's nothing done in this game that couldn't be done before (except those obvious spots, obviously!).
Click to expand...
Well in that case I think you guys are arguing over two different subjects. You are arguing about whether or not there is anything done in this game that couldn't have been done before and he's arguing whether or not the 3D effect makes what this game is doing better.

Personally I agree with both of you. I don't think there is anything done in this game that couldn't have been done before, but I don't think it would have been as good without the 3D.
 
T

Togglesworlh

Banned
The_Darkest_Red said:
I don't think there is anything done in this game that couldn't have been done before, but I don't think it would have been as good without the 3D.
Click to expand...
Yes and yes.

I like the 3D in the 3DS a whole hell of a lot more than I expected to. It really strained my eyes the first day, but I got used to it after that. It's great.
 
Davey Cakes

Davey Cakes

Member
Just cleared the first eight worlds with all star coins. Now onto special world 1.

I played the first level. It's nice to see that Tanooki Mario is living up to his name.

This game is definitely more robust than I (and probably many others) thought. Remixed or not, another eight worlds sounds good to me.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
The whole "Mario is the first game that really utilizes 3D" meme is so stupid and played out. I completely agree with Togglesworth, there's not a single thing in this game that isn't possible in 3D. So many people say that it helps them with the platforming, and I really just don't buy it. You've read too many over-enthusiastic reviews too excitedly and want to believe. Even the special 3D rooms with the perception tricks are completely possible to do in 2D, and in fact they're arguably more fun in 2D since you actually have to think about how the geometry is messing with your perception instead of just going "Oh, I see, this block is actually a few feet away from the rest of the blocks and not part of this pyramid" at a quick glance.

The game looks awesome in 3D, but so did Zelda and Star Fox. People have been platforming perfectly fine in 2D for years, and if the 3D in Mario supposedly helps line up jumps or whatever I don't why Star Fox didn't get a ton of praise for making it easier to dodge shots, or Mercenaries for making it easier to judge the distance between yourself and enemies to tell if you're in range of their attacks, or why any number of other games didn't get attention for making things we've done for years in 2D suddenly better.
 
R

Roto13

Member
Depth perception helps judge distance. Judging distance is a big part of 3D platforming. These two things are facts. It doesn't matter if you were able to successfully play 3D platformers before Super Mario 3D Land. Nobody is saying 3D platforming is impossible without actual 3D graphics. The fact is, the ability to see depth helps judge the distance in any viewing angle besides from the side. Again, this is a science fact. This is what depth perception is for, and this is why people with a lazy eye aren't allowed to fly airplanes.

Just think about how difficult 3D platformers would be if your shadow behaved realistically and wasn't always directly under you to show you where you are in space. In Super Mario 3D Land, you don't need a shadow.
 
L

Lonely1

Unconfirmed Member
Help, GAF!

I'm sure i have defeated every stage with both, Mario and Luigi and gotten a golden flag on it. But I'm still stuck at 4 stars and no final level. What I'm doing wrong?
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Roto13 said:
Depth perception helps judge distance. Judging distance is a big part of 3D platforming. These two things are facts. It doesn't matter if you were able to successfully play 3D platformers before Super Mario 3D Land. Nobody is saying 3D platforming is impossible without actual 3D graphics. The fact is, the ability to see depth helps judge the distance in any viewing angle besides from the side. Again, this is a science fact. This is what depth perception is for, and this is why people with a lazy eye aren't allowed to fly airplanes.

Just think about how difficult 3D platformers would be if your shadow behaved realistically and wasn't always directly under you to show you where you are in space. In Super Mario 3D Land, you don't need a shadow.
Click to expand...

At this point, the anti-3D crusade is a religious thing. The meme is that 3D is the worst gimmick ever, shoved down our throats by James Cameron, and so we must crusade against it to prove it's an invalid concept that nobody needs. It has become religious because folks are irrational - equating interactive games with passive motion pictures as if they're the same thing.

People argue that things like higher resolutions, more colors, better image quality - all the nerd fetishes that are OK to salivate over - are essential to actually playing the game. "You can see farther! More clearly!" Well, that's a valid point.

It's also valid that if you have three dimensional positional data, in stereo, your brain has more information to work with when playing. Because, you know, it's interactive. You're not watching. You have to steer objects around the 3D environment.

If three dimensional projection is irrelevant to operating a "game" on a screen, then why, as an example, are millions of dollars spent on stereoscopic flight simulators so that pilots can see an image with depth in the cockpit? Isn't a 2D image on an LCD panel mounted in the frame good enough?
 
M

maeda

Member
The final level is kicking my ass. I blew over a hundred lives on it. Had little problems before, but this is just torture. Any tips on clearing it?
 
F

Freezie KO

Banned
Lonely1 said:
Help, GAF!

I'm sure i have defeated every stage with both, Mario and Luigi and gotten a golden flag on it. But I'm still stuck at 4 stars and no final level. What I'm doing wrong?
Click to expand...

Didn't some other poster have this issue? Maybe this is a problem in certain copies of the game?

maeda said:
The final level is kicking my ass. I blew over a hundred lives on it. Had little problems before, but this is just torture. Any tips on clearing it?
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, don't cheat (use the Tanooki suit). It'll be more satisfying when you finally beat it.
 
M

Mistle

Member
Nearly 100%... half way through the special world in Luigi run, while getting flags. Already have all the star coins.

So once I play all as Luigi and have all stars/flags, I have to replay the W8 castle (for the third time ._.) to unlock the final final secret?
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
Kaijima said:
People argue that things like higher resolutions, more colors, better image quality - all the nerd fetishes that are OK to salivate over - are essential to actually playing the game. "You can see farther! More clearly!" Well, that's a valid point.
Click to expand...

You're just making 3D another "nerd fetish" though. I don't see how it's any different.

Shadow of the Colossus looks way better on PS3 with its higher resolution, but I still loved the original. I'd say that it's a good analogy between 3D and other "nerd fetishes," they're nice, but people who try to make it seems like they're necessary look ridiculous. 3D in Mario Land looks great and I played with it on almost the entire time I played and loved it, but it's still a fantastic game without it. Having it doesn't make the game any better crafted, it's a nice visual bonus.

Roto13 said:
Depth perception helps judge distance. Judging distance is a big part of 3D platforming. These two things are facts. It doesn't matter if you were able to successfully play 3D platformers before Super Mario 3D Land. Nobody is saying 3D platforming is impossible without actual 3D graphics. The fact is, the ability to see depth helps judge the distance in any viewing angle besides from the side. Again, this is a science fact. This is what depth perception is for, and this is why people with a lazy eye aren't allowed to fly airplanes.

Just think about how difficult 3D platformers would be if your shadow behaved realistically and wasn't always directly under you to show you where you are in space. In Super Mario 3D Land, you don't need a shadow.
Click to expand...

Like I said though, what's specifically different between Mario 3D Land every other game on the system that involves judging distance? Why is Mario singled out as the "first game to do it right"? You can easily make arguments that 3D can be "scientifically proven" to be helpful in other games, but somehow they're doing it wrong and the 3D in Mario is amazing.

And I get what you're saying with being able to judge distance, but not only have people been playing 3D platforming games long before Mario 3D Land, they've also been playing games far, far more challenging than Mario 3D Land for years.

Yeah, I guess if you feel the need you can scientifically prove that the 3D is beneficial, but obviously it wasn't necessary. Show me impressions from someone who has never been able to play through a 3D platformer who is suddenly able to complete Mario 3D Land due to its scientifically proven platforming-assisting 3D.
 
S

Struct09

Member
I played this game on an airplane with the 3D turned off to conserve battery power (it was a 5 hour flight). Playing it again shortly after and turning the 3D back on really drove home how much it actually helps in this game.

On the flip side, 3D in Mario Kart 7 is alright but definitely not as helpful as it is in 3D Land.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Togglesworlh said:
No, what I'm saying is that there's nothing done in this game that couldn't be done before (except those obvious spots, obviously!).

There is a difference between the two positions. He is ignoring this and pretending I'm saying something I'm not. Not to mention his response to my first post, which was nothing if not dickish.

Conversations about conversations are stupid, though. I only responded to you because you seem perfectly civil. We should stop now. :D (oh no now i'm the passive aggressive one, albeit unintentionally)
Click to expand...

Honestly I could see how both of your opinions had valid amd agreeable viewpoints before, but now I think you two are just arguing over different things :) Make peace then!

I don't think Roto said the 3D adds anything to the game that it couldn't be done without it from a gameplay/mechanics perspective, which is your point I guess (and I agree).

Roto was saying how the 3D can help with the depth perception part of the platforming, and how beneficial that is is entirely up to each users different experience with it (and I agree, in my experience the gain is minimal but it also comes very natural and adds another aiding layer to the controls' precision which is always welcome).

Then both of you say the 3D is great and adds to the game strikingly in a visual way (again, I agree).

Mt two cents: adding anything or not, the level design was clearly crafted with 3D in mind and there are plenty spots that play with that idea, with continuos platforming section/coin grabs where depth perception is vital to aptly jump, so it's difficult to argue we would've gotten the same exact game if it was a, say, Gameboy Evolution game instead of a 3DS one, even if such game could've easily be developed on the former as well.
So there :p
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Just finished the 8 worlds with 151 coins. Love the ending with the
tanooki toadstools. So cute

3D was great and this was the first game where I had it on full throughout. But it doesn't help with gameplay, just creates a great sense of space overall. The only time it might help with depth perception is those tiny ? Rooms, and even without 3D you can figure them out OK. I still ended up using shadows to help with aligning on blocks - the depth perception is there, but I don't think its natural or fine grained enough for me to rely on landing on a single block without other cues.


liked the levels with the helicopter block - reminded me of Jumping Flash
 
E

EloquentM

aka Mannny
dr3upmushroom said:
That's sort of disappointing. From this thread it seems like a majority of people like the "pop-out" option but it was a cool option to have.
Click to expand...

pilot wings has a pop-out view for its vehicles (everything else is mostly just depth). I imagine if nintendo made mario kart like that it would be very very distracting and no one would use the 3d on that game. the 3d they have on Mario kart works perfectly.
 
T

Togglesworlh

Banned
I prefer pop-in. It's so jarring having stuff pop-out at my face past the screen surface but then half of it is cut off by the edge of the screen.

Unless I've got it backwards and you guys mean pop-in towards your face.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
EloquentM said:
pilot wings has a pop-out view for its vehicles (everything else is mostly just depth). I imagine if nintendo made mario kart like that it would be very very distracting and no one would use the 3d on that game. the 3d they have on Mario kart works perfectly.
Click to expand...

I'm sure it does look great, doesn't hurt to have options though.

I messed around with this game for a bit for the first time since beating it, and I think it's probably my game of the year. Granted, that means almost nothing coming from me since I don't any consoles right now, but still, it's really good. Think I'll probably play through it again over Christmas break.
 
D

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
Togglesworlh said:
I prefer pop-in. It's so jarring having stuff pop-out at my face past the screen surface but then half of it is cut off by the edge of the screen.

Unless I've got it backwards and you guys mean pop-in towards your face.
Click to expand...

I prefer pop-out no contest, besides being beautiful and incredibly well-done (for me at least, it's a first having such 3D effect with minimal crosstalk and eye strain): Also with that 3D option I really have sense of where Mario is and it actually gives me what I was talking about, another layer of precision as far as depth perception goes.
With the looking in the box 3D, not at all. Still looks nice tho, although it's no match.
In fact imo the only other game which actually had kinda gameplay enhancing 3D was Pilotwings, which did something similar only much worse with only the vehicles popping out, much worse crosstalk (and framerate) and plenty of eye strain with the slider full on.

Also, as far as stuff getting jarringly cut off it basically never happens to me unless I try to make it happen on purpose.
 
T

Togglesworlh

Banned
Also, as far as stuff getting jarringly cut off it basically never happens to me unless I try to make it happen on purpose.
Click to expand...
All I know is it happens all the time in Ocarina of Time and it drives me crazy, so I'm not taking the chances elsewhere unless I have to.

I also prefer the window-looking-in idea. It's more bettererer.
 
B

Bumhead

Banned
Not sure I really get the criticism regarding 3D not "adding" anything. Its against Nintendo's policy to implement features that depend on viewing games in 3D, which is fair game. I wouldn't ever want to be forced to use it and there are some people who can't detect 3D at all, plus Nintendo recommend kids don't use it at all. You're never going to get games where the 3D is needed to enjoy the experience.

To be honest I've personally been enjoying this in 3D. There's some nice use of effects and its the first game I've been able to play in 3D without bringing on a headache. There's nit much here that wouldn't be different with or without 3D, but that's not the point..
 
M

Metal-Geo

Member
The pop-out mode really hurts my eyes when something pops out but still remains clipped by the screen. For instance, a goomba tower suddenly passing by the screen real close. The pop-in mode is perfect!

I found out about this feature only after a few levels though. :(

Also, there's no way to make pop-in the default, is there?
 
M

Mistle

Member
So,
I unlocked S8-Crown. But I'm sure I don't have all the star coins (I'm missing some that are inside those cubes that go grey and Zzzz if you fail them). I also didn't replay W8 final level after getting all the gold flags and completing every level with Luigi. I did however replay it once to unlock the M/L markers.

So whats going on? Should I bother getting those last star coins somehow (i assume the blocks reawaken) and replaying the w8 final? Or have I already unlocked the only secret level without doing that?
 
R

Roto13

Member
dr3upmushroom said:
You're just making 3D another "nerd fetish" though. I don't see how it's any different.

Shadow of the Colossus looks way better on PS3 with its higher resolution, but I still loved the original. I'd say that it's a good analogy between 3D and other "nerd fetishes," they're nice, but people who try to make it seems like they're necessary look ridiculous. 3D in Mario Land looks great and I played with it on almost the entire time I played and loved it, but it's still a fantastic game without it. Having it doesn't make the game any better crafted, it's a nice visual bonus.



Like I said though, what's specifically different between Mario 3D Land every other game on the system that involves judging distance? Why is Mario singled out as the "first game to do it right"? You can easily make arguments that 3D can be "scientifically proven" to be helpful in other games, but somehow they're doing it wrong and the 3D in Mario is amazing.

And I get what you're saying with being able to judge distance, but not only have people been playing 3D platforming games long before Mario 3D Land, they've also been playing games far, far more challenging than Mario 3D Land for years.

Yeah, I guess if you feel the need you can scientifically prove that the 3D is beneficial, but obviously it wasn't necessary. Show me impressions from someone who has never been able to play through a 3D platformer who is suddenly able to complete Mario 3D Land due to its scientifically proven platforming-assisting 3D.
Click to expand...

Again, nobody is saying 3D is absolutely necessary. It helps. Maybe people should have made a bigger deal about it helping in Star Fox, too. (Less so in Resident Evil since individual enemies within types are basically the same size so you can judge distance just by how big it is on your screen.) It is a bigger deal in Super Mario 3D Land where the platforms are not uniform and the camera isn't constantly in one position. Also a missed jump often leads to instant death.

The 3D effect absolutely and unarguably adds something beyond looking pretty. Nobody is saying it adds everything and suddenly Super Mario Galaxy is unplayable. It's a bad idea to make a game that can't be played in 2D, since some people get headaches from 3D no matter what they do.
 
O

oneHeero

Member
My daughter is 5 and getting use to playing on a 3DS (uses netflix like a pro but not so good on Mario bros 1). Nonetheless, she's been using my friends 3DS so I got her one for Xmas (netflix purposes) and grabbed her Mario 3D, would that be a good start or Mario Kart? Keep in mind I'll be playing the game too (when I can) so no need to say grab dora or something.
 
B

Berordn

Member
Yeah, most of the special stages are remixes of earlier stages, but they're changed enough that they don't feel like you're slogging through the same stages as before. Even just adding cosmic mario makes you rethink things, but most have an all new object layout and just reuse the world geometry.
 
A

Agent Unknown

Member
Thanks to Hollywood Duo and Berordn for the answers on the special stages. Yeah, they're so well done and the new elements really make them feel so fresh.
 
S

Steroyd

Member
I just want to applaud Nintendo for using my 20 year veteran knowledge and turning it on it's head, bravo.

And here I thought all I had left was to collect all the coins.

Edit: whoa whoa WHOA wtf is this little shit doi-- %%BYN%$M^&%£V£$%£$NBYH%T$
 
M

mooooose

Member
oneHeero said:
My daughter is 5 and getting use to playing on a 3DS (uses netflix like a pro but not so good on Mario bros 1). Nonetheless, she's been using my friends 3DS so I got her one for Xmas (netflix purposes) and grabbed her Mario 3D, would that be a good start or Mario Kart? Keep in mind I'll be playing the game too (when I can) so no need to say grab dora or something.
Click to expand...
I'd say Mario Kart is easier to handle than 3D Land. 3D Land isn't that easy...
 
U

ultron87

Member
oneHeero said:
My daughter is 5 and getting use to playing on a 3DS (uses netflix like a pro but not so good on Mario bros 1). Nonetheless, she's been using my friends 3DS so I got her one for Xmas (netflix purposes) and grabbed her Mario 3D, would that be a good start or Mario Kart? Keep in mind I'll be playing the game too (when I can) so no need to say grab dora or something.
Click to expand...

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

1225111423_HDjS4-L.jpg
 
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