Support NeoGAF

[EastOfEden]

How so? Because that's a very narrow viewpoint IMO.

When mods came out, it's not surprising that people would try to make stage list screens like this. Or if you're talking about the small amount of stages, it's not surprising when there's money on the line in tournaments that we choose to avoid stages with RNG elements.

Sure, but only having 3 main stages to play (with a small possibility of 4 more) is extremely boring to watch. Thus, tournament smash as entertainment is sad.

Tournament smash as competition (for the pro players) I'm sure is fine, I'm just speaking as a casual.

 

[FSLink]

Sure, but only having 3 main stages to play (with a small possibility of 4 more) is extremely boring to watch. Thus, tournament smash as entertainment is sad.

Tournament smash as competition (for the pro players) I'm sure is fine, I'm just speaking as a casual.

It's not 3 though, it's usually 5 Starters + 2 Counterpicks usually. That picture has 5 stages as Starters, it's a bit confusing due to it being separated by rows (Battlefield, Final Destination, Lylat Cruise, Smashville, Town & City)
They're vanilla and boring for a reason. Nobody wants to see a good player lose money due to Ridley or something in Grand Finals, lol

If you want exciting stages to watch, there's sometimes Free 4 All tourneys (Hawaii just had one recently), some regions have a more liberal stage list (Parts of Texas) or just play by yourself or with friends.

If you find it boring, that's fine, but that does not make it "sad". There's definitely a good discussion to have on why certain stages are banned and if the competitive community should have more liberal rulesets. But just calling it "sad" is equivalent to just saying "I don't like it and it's dumb" which is super close minded IMO.

 

[BGBW]

How so? Because that's a very narrow viewpoint IMO.

When mods came out, it's not surprising that people would try to make stage list screens like this. Or if you're talking about the small amount of stages, it's not surprising when there's money on the line in tournaments that we choose to avoid stages with RNG elements.

Sad as in depressing. You look at the regular stage select screen with all its variety and then that image with most of it removed. It's like looking at a forest after a fire, you just feel sadness for what was lost.

I honestly had no idea the tournament scene had banned almost every stage in the game. That's why I said it was sadder than I realised.

 

[Beats]

Wow, tournament Smash is even sadder than I realised.

What's sad about it? There are lots of different ways to play Smash.

It's fine if you don't like it or don't enjoy that way of playing but calling it sad is kind of insulting tbh.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think legal stages in Smash 4 only feel boring because two of the maps look basically identical (Town and City and Smashville) and have bland music, and two others are just generic (Battlefield and FD). Even Lylat is kind of generic looking (and isn't picked much anyway).

Smash 4 actually has a good bit of variety in its legal stages. Just not much visual variety. I kind of wish they'd use Miiverse instead of Battlefield, along with picking a themed FD to use, one that's cool looking, like Pirate Ship or Wily's Castle.

 

[PK Gaming]

Ah, so there is a Smash Bros patch coming up

hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyype

 

[FSLink]

Sad as in depressing. You look at the regular stage select screen with all its variety and then that image with most of it removed. It's like looking at a forest after a fire, you just feel sadness for what was lost.

I honestly had no idea the tournament scene had banned almost every stage in the game. That's why I said it was sadder than I realised.

But they aren't lost, they just moved to a different screen. The mod will also not be very widely used due to Official Nintendo events + modding being a rarity at the moment. The banning makes sense if you understand that tournaments are for money, that isn't really depressing or sad IMO.

I think legal stages in Smash 4 only feel boring because two of the maps look basically identical (Town and City and Smashville) and have bland music, and two others are just generic (Battlefield and FD). Even Lylat is kind of generic looking (and isn't picked much anyway).

Smash 4 actually has a good bit of variety in its legal stages. Just not much visual variety. I kind of wish they'd use Miiverse instead of Battlefield, along with picking a themed FD to use, one that's cool looking, like Pirate Ship or Wily's Castle.

I was for Palutena's Temple to be used as the omega over FD just because of the stupid bright light effect.

 

[TheDinoman]

Ah, so there is a Smash Bros patch coming up

hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyype

We've already been talking about it for the past few pages lol

 

[BGBW]

But they aren't lost, they just moved to a different screen. The mod will also not be very widely used due to Official Nintendo events + modding being a rarity at the moment.

It's not about the mod, it's about what it represents. Even without the mod those are the stages that are being chosen and I had no idea it was that bad. Not even something as simple as Isle Delfino.

 

[TheDinoman]

I feel like there not being too many legal stages in 4/Brawl is more on Sakurai for making nearly 2/3 of the stages in these games incredibly goofy and gimmicky with no hazardless alternative than it is on the community.

 

[FSLink]

It's not about the mod, it's about what it represents. Even without the mod those are the stages that are being chosen and I had no idea it was that bad. Not even something as simple as Isle Delfino.

Delfino Plaza is legal in some areas still, but generally it's banned due to the low ceiling during screen transitions making some top characters like ZSS and Diddy Kong more polarizing in a ruleset where the opponent can't ban many stages. Cloud would also be pretty damn silly on it. I think Delfino Plaza is definitely a candidate for a stage to return if there were more stages so they could have a more effective banning process.

Again it's not really sad, it makes sense if you actually knew why these things were decided.

I feel like there not being too many legal stages in 4/Brawl is more on Sakurai for making nearly 2/3 of the stages in these games incredibly goofy and gimmicky with no hazardless alternative than it is on the community.

This too, and Miiverse and Dreamland is sadly redundant on a stagelist with Battlefield legal.
Nobody wants to have Miiverse legal due to that.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I honestly had no idea the tournament scene had banned almost every stage in the game. That's why I said it was sadder than I realised.

Yeah, I haven't followed the tourney scene recently (I've watched a few Melee tournaments, but no big Smash 4 events have been going when I'm occasionally checking Twitch). I didn't realize that Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, and Halberd were all gone now.

 

[PK Gaming]

We've already been talking about it for the past few pages lol

Time to catch up~

It's not about the mod, it's about what it represents. Even without the mod those are the stages that are being chosen and I had no idea it was that bad. Not even something as simple as Isle Delfino.

As someone who plays competitive Smash, I don't even disagree. Our stage selection suuuuuuuuucks.

I think part of it is that many of the stages are indeed terrible (those goddamn gimmicks), but it's a shame that the Smash community has moved away from playing on more dynamic stages like Rainbow Cruise (melee), Isle Delfino, Halberd and such.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I never liked Delfino in comp anyway. Every transition either has water or walk offs, or sometimes both, with only a tiny bit of a reasonable stage in between the changes.

But I also don't like Stadium in Melee in comp either, even if it's one of the more popular comp stages.

It's too bad Lumiose City isn't on the Wii U. That's a fantastic dynamic stage that is perfectly suited for comp play.

 

[FSLink]

Yeah, I haven't followed the tourney scene recently (I've watched a few Melee tournaments, but no big Smash 4 events have been going when I'm occasionally checking Twitch). I didn't realize that Castle Siege, Delfino Plaza, and Halberd were all gone now.

On a list with only 1 stage ban, they aren't necessary. I do agree that they should come back, but it's kinda understandable since it's pretty dumb we only get 1 stage ban. Full List Stage Striking should return honestly. A list of 9 stages like:

Battlefield/Miiverse/Dreamland 64
FD/Omegas
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Town & City
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza
Duck Hunt
Umbra Clock Tower

Would be great. Maybe NX version if it adds 3DS stages could be:
Battlefield/Miiverse/Dreamland 64
FD/Omegas
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Town & City
Prism Tower
Yoshi's Island Brawl
Duck Hunt
Arena Ferox

I feel like there not being too many legal stages in 4/Brawl is more on Sakurai for making nearly 2/3 of the stages in these games incredibly goofy and gimmicky with no hazardless alternative than it is on the community.

Yeah. Some stages are fantastic but have one weird gimmick that ruins it. :/

 

[BGBW]

Serious question: what's wrong with walk offs? Just don't walk off (lol).

Or is it because you lose the edge game? Are people that reliant on those kills?

 

[mStudios]

Serious question: what's wrong with walk offs? Just don't walk off (lol).

Or is it because you lose the edge game? Are people that reliant on those kills?

Camping

 

[PK Gaming]

Oh, apparently Delfino was axed because it the ceiling is super low during stage transitions. Especially relevant in a game where combo throw characters are a thing.

Bummer.

 

[FSLink]

Serious question: what's wrong with walk offs? Just don't walk off (lol).

Or is it because you lose the edge game? Are people that reliant on those kills?

I once won a tournament game to get into top 8 with Lucas because I back thrown someone twice during the 2nd part of Castle Siege at the edges (the part with walkoffs). Castle Siege would probably be always legal if that 2nd part of the stage wasn't there. Most tournament matches with it end up people just kinda awkwardly waiting much like the rock transformation in tourneys in Melee.

 

[TheDinoman]

Oh, apparently Delfino was axed because it the ceiling is super low during stage transitions. Especially relevant in a game where combo throw characters are a thing.

Bummer.

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZ4zrK_ssU

Spoiler

rip lightweight

 

[PK Gaming]

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZ4zrK_ssU

Spoiler

rip lightweight

Wouldn't it be awesome if Palutena's default down B was changed from Counter to Lightweight?

Yeah, my friends say i'm a good comedian too.

 

[Triforce141]

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZ4zrK_ssU

Spoiler

rip lightweight

Yep, if Smash NX doesn't have custom moves and Palutena's stuck to using her default moveset, I bail.

Wouldn't it be awesome if Palutena's default down B was changed from Counter to Lightweight?

Yeah, my friends say i'm a good comedian.

Must you pull at my heart strings?

 

[BGBW]

Camping

Like hiding at one edge of the stage and then running away when approached? Maybe tournaments should have a jury system that rates participants on fighting style. That would discourage foul play.

 

[Anth0ny]

Sad as in depressing. You look at the regular stage select screen with all its variety and then that image with most of it removed. It's like looking at a forest after a fire, you just feel sadness for what was lost.

I honestly had no idea the tournament scene had banned almost every stage in the game. That's why I said it was sadder than I realised.

It's more like a beautiful forest had a huge pile of steaming trash located directly in the middle of it, and someone decided to remove all the trash.

that css is beautiful. so clean

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Snake back
Majora's Mask as a playable character, with cool shadow tendrils
a Chrono Trigger rep, maybe Robo since we have a lot of swords
Waluigi

and Funky Kong.

 

[PK Gaming]

Like hiding at one edge of the stage and then running away when approached? Maybe tournaments should have a jury system that rates participants on fighting style. That would discourage foul play.

Way too subjective. Plus there are way too matches being played at the tournament for that to be feasible.

The irony is that they actually sort of tried to do this during the Brawl era. They implemented a ledge grab limit (as in, if you grab the ledge X number of times, you lose)

And as heard in the famous Metaknight Rap

extended my dimension cape there's nothin i can't live through
claimin' that i cheated so you start to call officials
but he ain't see me doin' it so he can't blow no whistle

Competitive Brawl was a circus, lmao.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Like hiding at one edge of the stage and then running away when approached? Maybe tournaments should have a jury system that rates participants on fighting style. That would discourage foul play.

I think the issue is that irregardless of whether or not one's strategy is to explicitly camp the edges, there's still plenty of opportunity for far easier kills than you would see in stages without walkoffs.

Honestly, I understand why these stages are banned. I was just more commenting on being out of the loop and not even realizing that this had occurred.

 

[FSLink]

It's more like a beautiful forest had a huge pile of steaming trash located directly in the middle of it, and someone decided to remove all the trash.

that css is beautiful. so clean

It's actually kinda ugly with the background, and the Starter stages aren't even on the same line due to limitations with the stage select screen.

The troll bait isn't necessary.

 

[Green Mamba]

I can't stand walkoff stages and I don't play competitively at all. I think the only walkoff stage that I would count among my favorite stages in the series is Onett.

Onett is good because it's basically designed like a normal stage but it has a floor instead of a pit. And said floor is inherently dangerous to stand on thanks to the cars, so fighting naturally migrates to the upper platforms. Big long flat expanses of nothing like Bridge of Eldin, Coliseum, and Wii Fit Studio can get bent.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I'm all for people playing Smash however they like, and tourney rules are what they are, but yeah, that stage list is really boring. Don't care for the background, either.

I mean, I love walk-offs/scrolling stages/bosses/w/e so I'd never use it, but it's just dire to look at for me.

 

[BGBW]

Weirdly, one of my least favourite stages is Duck Hunt, one of the few apparently tournament safe stages.

 

[jph139]

I love the Duck Hunt stage, but I always get distracted by the ducks.

In fact, I watched a competitive match on it recently and was like - guys, you're missing all the ducks! You're 0/10 with ducks! Get your priorities straight, seriously.

 

[FSLink]

I love the Duck Hunt stage, but I always get distracted by the ducks.

In fact, I watched a competitive match on it recently and was like - guys, you're missing all the ducks! You're 0/10 with ducks! Get your priorities straight, seriously.

Watching competitive matches and people not taking advantage of the ducks irritates me more. A lot of players don't know the dog spawns where the first duck was.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/mvg-league-2015112213547930 Sol knows it's useful though. :3

 

[IntelliHeath]

Watching competitive matches and people not taking advantage of the ducks irritates me more. A lot of players don't know the dog spawns where the first duck was.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/mvg-league-2015112213547930 Sol knows it's useful though. :3

Yup! I really like to doing that because some players doesn't know it's functions.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Watching competitive matches and people not taking advantage of the ducks irritates me more. A lot of players don't know the dog spawns where the first duck was.

http://oddshot.tv/shot/mvg-league-2015112213547930 Sol knows it's useful though. :3

REALLY??? Wow.

Amazes me how I keep learning about this game nearly two years later.

 

[Anth0ny]

I'm all for people playing Smash however they like, and tourney rules are what they are, but yeah, that stage list is really boring. Don't care for the background, either.

I mean, I love walk-offs/scrolling stages/bosses/w/e so I'd never use it, but it's just dire to look at for me.

the final result will probably be hazardless versions of every stage, and a bunch of good 64/melee/brawl/3ds stages

in melee 20xx you can play on entei, majora's mask and a gamecube, among many others. it's great.

 

[Poltergust]

Serious question: what's wrong with walk offs? Just don't walk off (lol).

Or is it because you lose the edge game? Are people that reliant on those kills?

It makes the game extremely reductive. It basically turns the game into "who can get the throw at near the blastzone first".

Temporary walk-offs can be allowed and have been allowed in the past, but Castle Siege's walkoffs last for over a third of the stage (including transitions) and, in the walk-off transformation, it also severely cramps the horizontal blastzones. The stage layout is just bad for competitive play.

As for the other former counterpick stages...

Delfino is typically banned due to the extremely small vertical blastzones during transformations and the majority of transformations having walk-offs (or close enough, anyways).

Halberd is banned because of Rosalina (half-joking, but she was one of the reasons).

 

[FSLink]

Halberd is banned because of Luma (half-joking, but she was one of the reasons).

*Fixed

Maybe they'll remove Luma in the next patch.

The edges are kinda dumb during the last section of Halberd too. I actually don't have as much issue with the laser/cannon ball as the low ceiling/weird edges but they aren't too fun to deal with either.

 

[MrSaturn99]

the final result will probably be hazardless versions of every stage, and a bunch of good 64/melee/brawl/3ds stages

I'd love to have imported stages of my choosing so long as a) they don't come at the expense of the ones already in the game and b) they can be integrated into the Solo modes.

'Course, I dunno the stage selection screen would look when considering the former, but...

in melee 20xx you can play on entei, majora's mask and a gamecube, among many others. it's great.

That sounds awesome as shit. Is the GameCube one based on the trophy or something?

 

[FSLink]

I'd love to have imported stages of my choosing so long as a) they don't come at the expense of the ones already in the game and b) they can be integrated into the Solo modes.

Probably likely, we can import lots of costumes and music without having to replace the existing ones.

 

[PadWarrior]

If this port only adds the ice climbers and everything else is the same will you spend the money for a new system and this game?

 

[Anth0ny]

I'd love to have imported stages of my choosing so long as a) they don't come at the expense of the ones already in the game and b) they can be integrated into the Solo modes.

'Course, I dunno the stage selection screen would look when considering the former, but...



That sounds awesome as shit. Is the GameCube one based on the trophy or something?

I'm not sure exactly how they did the Gamecube one. I know Entei and Majora's Mask were in event matches.

Maybe they took the lil cube from Luigi's BTT stage and made it huge?

and with the way DLC works I wouldn't be surprised if hackers found a way to add pages and pages of stages, so you could have all your original stages in addition to hacked stages.

 

[MrSaturn99]

I'm not sure exactly how they did the Gamecube one. I know Entei and Majora's Mask were in event matches.

Maybe they took the lil cube from Luigi's BTT stage and made it huge?

and with the way DLC works I wouldn't be surprised if hackers found a way to add pages and pages of stages, so you could have all your original stages in addition to hacked stages.

I completely forgot about that, wow.

And yeah, just thought of that too. Wouldn't be surprised either.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Art of the Day

I'm pretty sure most of us have fond memories with Smash 64. See how simple the roster used to be.

 

[Clov]

If everything pans out and we do get an NX version of Smash Bros, what new music would you like to see? I'm hoping we'd get some more music from DKC:TF and Fire Emblem Fates. It would be great if we got some music from the new Zelda and Pokemon Sun/Moon too!

 

[Nocturnowl]

Since new music would likely be rips for the most part, yeah they should just mine the heck out of the Tropical Freeze OST.

Kirby and the Rainbow Curse/Paintbrush has a flood of series remixes done by Shogo Sakai no less so that would be a great place to pull from.

Zelda should take some Hyrule Warriors remixes, Pokemon needs that Autumn Town track from Pokken.

 

[Enforced]

If everything pans out and we do get an NX version of Smash Bros, what new music would you like to see? I'm hoping we'd get some more music from DKC:TF and Fire Emblem Fates. It would be great if we got some music from the new Zelda and Pokemon Sun/Moon too!

On top of my head.
Double Cherry Pass, World Bowser and sprawling Savanna from Super Mario 3D world.
Normal Battle theme from Paper Mario Sticker Star

 

[random25]

Art of the Day

I'm pretty sure most of us have fond memories with Smash 64. See how simple the roster used to be.

If we ever get a new Smash next gen until the end of time, I hope this first 12 remains a constant fixture in the Smash roster. Such a great cast.

 

[Clov]

Since new music would likely be rips for the most part, yeah they should just mine the heck out of the Tropical Freeze OST.

Kirby and the Rainbow Curse/Paintbrush has a flood of series remixes done by Shogo Sakai no less so that would be a great place to pull from.

Zelda should take some Hyrule Warriors remixes, Pokemon needs that Autumn Town track from Pokken.

I wasn't even thinking of spin-offs like Hyrule Warriors or Pokken, but having music from those would be pretty great too!

What I think I want the most in the game is Guile's Theme. It's pretty much the biggest missed opportunity in Smash Bros. Wii U right now.

 

[Dimitri LH]

Oh sweet a update!

im sad Halberd is no longer legal.....