Support NeoGAF

[Nocturnowl]

One thing Metroid did alright with in Smash 4 are the assist trophies, especially since to managed to snag a whole three of them (Metroid, Dark Samus, Mother Brain).

Meanwhile Donkey Kong has gone without one single AT for two games in a row despite there being a very obvious candidate...

someone on the dev team asked Sakurai for permission to add a certain well loved rideable herbivore as an assist that also rams opponents and he nodded exclaiming "I know exactly what you mean..."

 

[Zubz]

Why did I come back here? The Ridley wound was starting to heal! ... Sort of. Actually, it never healed, but this just ripped it wide open again.

Began's doing God's work.

 

[jnWake]

They shouldn't have killed the Ice bounty hunter in Prime 3. He was actually cool (not a pun) and could have had potential. Oh well...

I also hope Dixie makes it into Smash someday, she deserves it. It'd be cool if she managed to be top tier like Diddy too.

 

[PK Gaming]

I did too actually. 64 and Melee came in the interim between Super and Prime/Fusion so I was pretty happy to see anything Metroid related and Brawl was primarily made up of Zero Mission and actually acknowledging that the Prime games happened.

SSB4 fucked up bad by being so hardcore focused on Other M, to the point that the Prime series was basically ignored entirely outside of a couple colors and an Assist Trophy. One new stage across both versions and it's a location from Other M, a game with the absolute blandest environments of any Metroid ever and it's populated by the most annoying stage hazard in the series who happens to look like that... thing I posted a couple posts back. The fact that Ridley's "idiot helper boss" depiction in SSB4 was done with the best of intentions probably makes it worse.

I still can't believe there isn't a single music track in SSB4 from Prime 3 but Other M has two music tracks that aren't the Ridley theme.

EDIT: The divvying up of new music in SSB4 was way skewed all around in comparison to Brawl anyway.

There were more important things to focus on in regards to Metroid representation.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Smash 4 was tied for 8th for NeoGAF's Favorite Fighting Game. Hell, my quote was even used in the description for Smash 4.

That's definitely good news. I should check out the thread and see what games that are placed at top 10.

The Ridley KO icon still cracks me up. So cruel.

Honestly, I've always enjoyed Metroid representation in Smash before 4.

They should have shown the icon during POTD. I'm pretty sure that I could imagine the reactions and meltdown when they found out what it really is.

 

[Green Mamba]

There were more important things to focus on in regards to Metroid representation.

Right, a ton of work was put into making Zero Suit Samus into Sakurai's super hot OC.

Other thing I've never brought up--regular Samus's new running animation in SSB4 is goofy as heck looking if you actually stop to look at it. It's based on her run from Other M (of course), and it looks like she's running with a limp. Her running animation in previous games was based on Super Metroid, which is of course as God intended.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yea, her run animation is dumb. Especially since most of her other animations are still from Super.

I don't actually mind the Other M suit though.

I'm not a fan of the missile design change, either. I think Super/Zero Mission design used in previous games was better.

 

[FSLink]

They should have shown the icon during POTD. I'm pretty sure that I could imagine the reactions and meltdown when they found out what it really is.

I wish I could go back in time and show a blurry phone picture of a victory screen from Smash 4 with 8 player Smash, a dead Ridley icon, and characters like Cloud.

 

[MrSaturn99]

It's the peashooter cannon that gets me more than anything else.

They should have shown the icon during POTD. I'm pretty sure that I could imagine the reactions and meltdown when they found out what it really is.

LOL I joke about this all the time.

 

[PK Gaming]

Hello and welcome to this week's "The localizer's sucked booty at translating Fire Emblem dialogue!"

This week's guest is Corrin and boy do I have a story for you.

So everyone knows about Corrin's infamous "Good" line in one of her victory animations, right? It's so bad, but one must assume that the line must be at least similar in Japanese. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth. In the Japanese version, she says:

勝負あったね (Roughly translates to "that's the game")

You don't even have to be able to read Japanese to know that she is saying a full sentence instead of a single word. It boggles the mind that they got "Good" from that. Then again, localization in FE characters has been notoriously bad for pretty much every single character.

Well that's all for today. Tune in next week, where we talk about Fox & Falco's voice direction. What went right (hint: nothing), what went wrong, and everything in between!

 

[IntelliHeath]

we have our first

Spoiler

fake

smash nx rumor now!

Nintendo Focus (フォーカ&#12473

Launch Lineup (March 10th, 2017)

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Focus (Wii U & 3DS content + DLC + Wolf, Pichu, Ice Climbers, Shovel Knight)
Super Smash Bros. Melee HD (HD models for all characters, techs and frame data intact)
Pokemon Gold and Silver (Focus Virtual Console Exclusive, Pokemon Bank Compatible)
F-Zero^2 (Developed by Retro Studios, Squared Subtitle)

Launch Window

Super Mario Focus
Animal Crossing Election Year
Pikmin 4
Pokemon Sun and Moon (3DS Port, Takes Advantage of Focus Native Features)
Pileow (New IP, Good-Feel Developed)

These are all games that have stage demos/stage time during the September 21st NX/Focus reveal. Don't have any info on the system or specifics, sorry. More games will most likely be announced during the presentation than I've listed here.

Enjoy.

at 4chan.

 

[Ryce]

Haha, Shovel Knight is the ultimate shitty fake rumor character.

 

[BGBW]

Oh cool. Time to crack open Photoshop and take some new angled photos.

The best thing about the Melee bit is that it's written by someone not aware there's four versions, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 and PAL. As a result you can't really say everything has been kept intact, because there are no universal stats to keep intact.

 

[PtM]

Haha, Shovel Knight is the ultimate shitty fake rumor character.

Nah, Pichu is.

 

[MrSaturn99]

lmao

No way is that roster real, and I highly doubt Good-Feel has their next game ready.

Hello and welcome to this week's "The localizer's sucked booty at translating Fire Emblem dialogue!"

This week's guest is Corrin and boy do I have a story for you.

So everyone knows about Corrin's infamous "Good" line in one of her victory animations, right? It's so bad, but one must assume that the line must be at least similar in Japanese. Well, that couldn't be further from the truth. In the Japanese version, she says:

勝負あったね (Roughly translates to "that's the game")

You don't even have to be able to read Japanese to know that she is saying a full sentence instead of a single word. It boggles the mind that they got "Good" from that. Then again, localization in FE characters has been notoriously bad for pretty much every single character.

Well that's all for today. Tune in next week, where we talk about Fox & Falco's voice direction. What went right (hint: nothing), what went wrong, and everything in between!

Still can't get over "I win!"

 

[BGBW]

Even "Good" comes from the Zelda CDi games. It's the great secret reference!

 

[balladofwindfishes]

lol Shovel Knight.

There'd be no reason he'd get in before Inklings.

Pichu would be cool though. With Wolf, Ice Climbers and Pichu, we'd only be missing Squirtle, Ivysaur and Snake. That's really not bad at all for cut fighting game characters.

 

[Green Mamba]

Well that's all for today. Tune in next week, where we talk about Fox & Falco's voice direction. What went right (hint: nothing), what went wrong, and everything in between!

When Falco says, "Personally, I prefer the air," it sounds like he's a tour guide talking into an intercom on a bus full of old people.

 

[GenG3000]

Damn all Ryu For Glory players looking good and professional with their Focus dashes and hit confirm SRK kills.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

When Falco says, "Personally, I prefer the air," it sounds like he's a tour guide talking into an intercom on a bus full of old people.

Hey, at least it's not like the most iconic character in the game and the mascot of Nintendo has one of the worst voices in the entire Smash series, despite hundreds of games to rip perfectly viable, in-character voice lines from or anything ridiculous like that.

oh wait

 

[GiantBreadbug]

we have our first

Spoiler

fake

smash nx rumor now!



at 4chan.

The only "told ya so" I'll ever revel in is the fact that Shovel Knight, as cool a character as he/she is and however cool the game is, will NOT be in Smash.

Good lord when that rumor was flying around my eyes nearly fell out from rolling so much.

 

[TheDinoman]

So Source Gaming did something really interesting: They actually managed to get an interview with Dean Harrington, the announcer of Super Smash Bros. Melee!

Xander Mobus is pretty great in Smash 4, but I think Dean will always be my favorite Smash announcer. The way he shouts characters' names still echo on in my head.

MARIOOOOOOOOOO
MR GAME. AND WATCH
BOWSSSSSER

 

[IntelliHeath]

LOL I joke about this all the time.

I wish I could go back in time and show a blurry phone picture of a victory screen from Smash 4 with 8 player Smash, a dead Ridley icon, and characters like Cloud.

A picture of Cloud is going to start a Palutena War II for sure since people are going to debate it for long time, and I really wish that Sakurai would show the picture of Ridley icon on POTD.

Oh cool. Time to crack open Photoshop and take some new angled photos.

Looking forward for it!

lol Shovel Knight.

There'd be no reason he'd get in before Inklings.

If we are going to get new contents for upcoming Smash, Inkling better get in the game because I have a feeling that they are going to be number 1 request character for Nintendo franchise as newcomer.

The only "told ya so" I'll ever revel in is the fact that Shovel Knight, as cool a character as he/she is and however cool the game is, will NOT be in Smash.

Good lord when that rumor was flying around my eyes nearly fell out from rolling so much.

I hope that your eyes would have enough energies for those rolling during Smash NX speculation.

 

[MrSaturn99]

So Source Gaming did something really interesting: They actually managed to get an interview with Dean Harrington, the announcer of Super Smash Bros. Melee!

Xander Mobus is pretty great in Smash 4, but I think Dean will always be my favorite Smash announcer. The way he shouts characters' names still echo on in my head.

MARIOOOOOOOOOO
MR GAME. AND WATCH
BOWSSSSSER

That was really interesting; I had no idea he was involved with a Brawl Mod.

 

[TheDinoman]

OH YEAH MR KRABS

Also I was right, Project M's Mewtwo armor does look hell of a lot better on Sm4sh Mewtwo.

 

[MrSaturn99]

why am I only just now seeing that video for the first time

why are the closed captions so beautiful

 

[PushDustIn]

So Source Gaming did something really interesting: They actually managed to get an interview with Dean Harrington, the announcer of Super Smash Bros. Melee!

Xander Mobus is pretty great in Smash 4, but I think Dean will always be my favorite Smash announcer. The way he shouts characters' names still echo on in my head.

MARIOOOOOOOOOO
MR GAME. AND WATCH
BOWSSSSSER

I think we do interesting things daily but I guess I'm biased .

I really want to get all four announcers together someday. Would be really interesting to see them interact with each other. If anyone can help put me in contact with Jeff Manning (the Smash 64 announcer), I'd really appreciate it. Still haven't found a direct way to contact him yet (found companies that hire him).

Speaking of which...

We had Xander Modus, Ash Paulsen, Artsy Omni and James Montagna in the same live stream today for SG's 2nd anniversary. Hearing them interact with each other was a lot of fun for me and really my guilty pleasure in the event.

Some interesting things that occurred/ was talked about: James has been to Xander's house (and partied there?).
Artsy Omni apologizing to Xander for the Rayman Smashified as Xander got a ton of messages on Twitter about it.
Ash talking about his dad with Xander.
Xander talked more about the recording process, gave some character names he announced (the ones that they used to try to throw him Off).

The stream was a lot of fun, thanks to everyone that showed up!

 

[MrSaturn99]

so I came across this

 

[-shadow-]

Why would anyone do this!? xD

 

[PtM]

so I came across this

I liked Kirby and Rob.

 

[TheDinoman]

As long last, Project M's Armored Mewtwo is available for download in Smash 4!

Played around with it and my god, it's beautiful.

Pay no attention to the Mario with the SMB3 inspired color swap

Seriously, you don't get anymore badass than this.

In case you're wondering, he still has "PKMN-150" on his back

While we're at it, he retains his gold and dark colored palettes from Project M...

...but in addition to this, Nano threw in a whole additional five alts, culminating to a total of eight available colors.

One badass rainbow

 

[Boss Doggie]

you know, Bayo might have "magic guns" but damn they still sound like rapid fire pistols

 

[TrueBlue]

you know, Bayo might have "magic guns" but damn they still sound like rapid fire pistols

Bayo breaking the no guns rule - if there ever was one - was one of the many good things in her inclusion for me.

 

[Ryce]

Bayo breaking the no guns rule - if there ever was one - was one of the many good things in her inclusion for me.

I think Sakurai said there was a restriction against real world guns and knives, like many of the weapons from the Metal Gear series. Bayonetta uses colorful fantasy guns in cartoonish ways, so she's safe.

 

[PtM]

I think Sakurai said there was a restriction against real world guns and knives, like many of the weapons from the Metal Gear series. Bayonetta uses colorful fantasy guns in cartoonish ways, so she's safe.

I agree.

 

[PushDustIn]

I think Sakurai said there was a restriction against real world guns and knives, like many of the weapons from the Metal Gear series. Bayonetta uses colorful fantasy guns in cartoonish ways, so she's safe.

Yes, you are correct. Here's the quote:

Said plainly, Snake in Smash Bros. would have to be able to do things he couldn’t normally do. For example, in the Metal Gear Solid games, Snake doesn’t jump. He doesn’t have Smash attacks, and there are no midair battles. However, it wouldn’t be Smash Bros without those elements, so we developed certain moves just for him. Also, we could incorporate heavy weapons like bombs and rocket launchers as jokes, but things like knives, automatic weapons, and realistic guns were off-limits. Since this also affected the other characters, even though I decided on Snake myself, I needed to receive permission from their original creators.

Source

AFAIK he hasn't mentioned Bayonetta's guns directly (only her sexy antics), but from the Snake column, we can infer that Bayonetta's unrealistic gun portrayal is okay.

 

[Green Mamba]

Remember last October when we were so starved for new character information we started listening to a nobody on twitter claim that they knew the next new character would be like the Inklings or something despite said nobody on twitter being permabanned from NeoGaf for deliberately misleading people about Smash characters in the past?

 

[MrSaturn99]

I only remember how much we kept getting baited by Shovel Knight nonsense.

good times

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Yes, you are correct. Here's the quote:


Source

AFAIK he hasn't mentioned Bayonetta's guns directly (only her sexy antics), but from the Snake column, we can infer that Bayonetta's unrealistic gun portrayal is okay.

It is quite possible that her guns are unrealistic enough that they don't violate any previously set criteria. Another possibility that I do think is continually worth reminding people about is that previous guidelines are not set in stone. Mind you, no character speculations for any game are legitimately serious business, but I feel like one of the biggest mistakes I see again and again is to take all known public information and try to formulate axioms from them that are always going to be true. Here's another possibility: that was a belief held 10 years ago and things have changed since then.

 

[Boss Doggie]

still, Bayo had some sexy antics in Smash even if a bit toned down, heh

 

[PushDustIn]

Inkling drama was the absolute worse. So much of "I know something but I can't say!!"

Sorry about that whole Shovel Knight thing. Should have trusted my gut on that one.

And yes, things that are acceptable by rating boards can change with the time. Some things that were okay in the past might be okay now, and vice versa.

 

[PK Gaming]

So Smashboards released their latest tier list. It's not 100% accurate, but a pretty good look of what the Smash 4 metagame is like now.

Some hot observations

• People realized that Diddy Kong was a pretty ridiculous character with or without his Hoo Haa (hint: his down tilt is stupid). Actually a pretty fair Top Tier all things considered, but he's still a damn, infuriating, insolent piece of shit monkey.
• Fuck Sheik.
• ZSS is still solid despite receiving a thrashing in the previous patch. (Shoutouts to completely eclipsing Samus in speed, jump height, aerial mobility and just about everything that makes a character good. What an excellently designed character)
• Bayonetta was kneecapped, but she's still an incredibly powerful character. A beatable, not game ruining character.
• It's-a-me, Topterio! (i'm so proud of my boy Mario, not gonna lie)
• Mewtwo jumped a whopping 20+ spots from the previous list. Partly because he was always underrated, and partly because his buffs were just that ridiculous (hint 2: mobility buffs are a big deal)
• Fuck Rosalina
• Mega Man is a really good character. This wasn't something that was immediately obvious, but his moveset is actually extremely solid. YA'LL MEGA MAN MAINS HAVE NO EXCUSE NOW.
• Fuck Metaknight.
• Marth is also really good (now)! Gone are the days of swinging what was basically the equivalent of a plastic sword. Marth is a powerful and totally respectable character now.
• Lucario is still one of the most poorly designed characters from a competitive standpoint. Doesn't change the fact that a good Lucario will fuck you up.
• Pikachu is hilariously overrated.
• Lucina is hilariously underrated.
• Sonic SPEED
• I actually think Link's placement is way too low. Recent discoveries have made him quite a threat in tournaments hahahaha just kidding, he's still really mediocre.
• Samus is waaaaaaayyyyy underrated for real though. The last patch made her a functional character, and she's got some pretty dirty tactics. She just isn't used in tournaments sadly.
• Charizard's placement is literally based on the fact that nobody uses him. A character that good simply can't be bottom 5.
• Roy continues his trend of sucking ass in pretty much every game he's in (though he's honestly not that bad here)
• Palutena is actually a fairly underrated character, believe it or not. Huge portions of her moveset aren't usable, but the moves that ARE usable are quite good. I actually expect her to rise once the dust settles because having a kill set up is a big deal.
• Fuck Ganondorf.
• Cloud rulez.

 

[BGBW]

What exactly makes Mario so much better than his Doctor counterpart since that's a significant gap between the two?

 

[PK Gaming]

What exactly makes Mario so much better than his Doctor counterpart since that's a significant gap between the two?

People usually come up with various reasons, but i'm just going to make it super simple:

1) Recovery

2) Speed

3) Mario himself

1) For reasons why I can't possibly fathom, the distance Doctor Mario gets on his Up B is significantly lower than Mario's. Sure, the good doctor's Up B can KO easier, but it's not even a remotely a fair trade-off. Also, Mario's Air speed is incredible while Doctor Mario's Air speed is awful. You can see this for yourself if you jump off Hyrule Temple and try to reach the bottom platform (without using your Up B). Mario travels way farther and way faster. So on top of having an Up B that is comically bad, Doctor Mario has a much harder time getting back on the stage.

2) This one's easy. He's noticeably less nimble than Mario. In a game where movement is really important, this is one of his glaring weaknesses.

3) In competitive play, there's pretty much 0 reason to use him over Mario. He hits harder... but Mario's combos are much better so it's a moot advantage. Basically, nobody ends up using him in tournaments.

Though if you want my honest opinion.... Doctor Mario is actually pretty underrated even in spite of what I've said. He might have some serious, baffling flaws, but he shares a lot of the things that make Mario great (ridiculously good frame data, his Up Smash is insane, etc).

 

[GenG3000]

It's sad that tryhards will use these tiers for character whoring. It's all about the matchups.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

It's sad that tryhards will use these tiers for character whoring. It's all about the matchups.

Tryhards? You mean people that want to win? There is nothing wrong with playing one of the best characters in the game because of wanting to win. In fact, if someone is playing one of the best characters in the game and loses, they can't use their character as an excuse.

 

[GenG3000]

Tryhards? You mean people that want to win? There is nothing wrong with playing one of the best characters in the game because of wanting to win. In fact, if someone is playing one of the best characters in the game and loses, they can't use their character as an excuse.

Tryhards are tryhards, players that live and die for the tier lists, that will play the new hot thing and argue about character viability without knowing how it actually works.

I don't want to get into tier wars, but Mega Man has gone from mid to high thanks to Kamemushi, and the character didn't receive any buffs. You can also say that tiers only are consistent at competitive level play and under certain conditions. It's based on tournament results, not character potential, which changes.

 

[NamikazeBurst]

Tryhards are tryhards, players that live and die for the tier lists, that will play the new hot thing and argue about character viability without knowing how it actually works.

I don't want to get into tier wars, but Mega Man has gone from mid to high thanks to Kamemushi, and the character didn't receive any buffs. You can also say that tiers only are consistent at competitive level play and under certain conditions.

Of course Mega Man went up because he got results. Kamemushi has always put amazing work in in Japan, and Scatt did decently in the US too. With Kamemushi's EVO placing, it cemented the fact that Mega Man does have the tools to do well.

This is how tier lists work. Results are a major part of the creation of tier lists. Many characters have moved in the tier list without receiving buffs or nerfs. Fox used to be considered a bad character. Ryu was never this high. Mario hasn't been changed. Villager has gone up. Ness has gone down. Yoshi has gone way down.

The tier lists that the competitive Smash scene puts out are obviously for the competitive Smash scene. They only apply for the tournament legal stages and rules. A character like Sheik is no where near as good as she is in casual play, and Ganondorf is better in casual play.

Tier lists are based on both results and theory. Cloud doesn't have the results to be second. Mario has enough results to be higher than fifth. Any character with good tools can be used to win or do really well in tournaments. Over time people learn new techniques with characters, and they also understand how to fight against other characters. This is how the meta changes over time.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I feel Grampadorf's aerial foot is pretty good, but they should have buffed him more.

 

[TheDinoman]

I feel Grampadorf's aerial foot is pretty good, but they should have buffed him more.

He did get buffed a lot, he just went nowhere.

I feel like Ganondorf is kinda like Zelda in that he's just a poorly designed character that really needs more of an overhaul than just buffs.