TheDinoman
Member
Keep in mind that Smash 64 isn't anywhere near as big as Melee or Smash 4. People do play it but it's small time in comparison to those two other games which are predominately played with the GCN controller.
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Super Smash Bros. Community Thread |OT| Next Super Smash Bros. Discussion
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Keep in mind that Smash 64 isn't anywhere near as big as Melee or Smash 4. People do play it but it's small time in comparison to those two other games which are predominately played with the GCN controller.
balladofwindfishes
Member
If someone really wanted, it's not hard at all to play Smash 64 with a Gamecube controller.
Just have an old Wii and buy the VC version and there you go. Official release of Smash 64 with GCN controller support.
Just have an old Wii and buy the VC version and there you go. Official release of Smash 64 with GCN controller support.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I love and use a GCN controller but
Lol I don't fuckin care if I have to play with a tree branch it's fuckin Smash Bros. If I can't use a GCN controller then I'm sure there will be comfortable and good alternatives.
Lol I don't fuckin care if I have to play with a tree branch it's fuckin Smash Bros. If I can't use a GCN controller then I'm sure there will be comfortable and good alternatives.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
People were fully prepared to move on before they announced the GC controller adapter, the problem was having a controller that wasn't afflicted with the problems of wireless controllers. It sounds silly to a casual player, but I can't keep track of the amount of times tourneys have gotten interrupted, stations were rendered unusable, and people have paused in the middle of matches because they don't take out their damn batteries or don't properly de-sync their controllers. Wireless controllers get banned not because people don't wanna move on, it's because Nintendo was fucking braindead and decided not to allow input data to be transferred through the cable for the pro controller and required a screwdriver to remove the battery.
Oh, and in regards to Smash 64 there are adapters available for damn near any controller you can think of in part due to the popularity of netplay through emulation on a pc. People play 64 on an actual console using keyboards, controllers are not an issue with that game (even though the 64 controller is notorious for its joystick wearing out.)
I personally want GC controllers not because I "don't want to move on" but because I'd like to have my preferred control scheme available to me. Other people can play with wii remotes and pro controllers if they like, and I'll play with my GC controller. Let it be, and fuck off with that "move on" nonsense.
Oh, and in regards to Smash 64 there are adapters available for damn near any controller you can think of in part due to the popularity of netplay through emulation on a pc. People play 64 on an actual console using keyboards, controllers are not an issue with that game (even though the 64 controller is notorious for its joystick wearing out.)
I personally want GC controllers not because I "don't want to move on" but because I'd like to have my preferred control scheme available to me. Other people can play with wii remotes and pro controllers if they like, and I'll play with my GC controller. Let it be, and fuck off with that "move on" nonsense.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
wait, there's an actual Smash 4 NX announced?
balladofwindfishes
Member
I'm not sure why Nintendo moved the second stick from the bottom left to the top right. The GCN positioning was perfect, and the Xbox controller copied the layout of the sticks (somewhat) and it's a really comfortable controller. The PS controller is essentially unusable for me, my hands just refuse to work with the bizarre stick placement on that garbage controller. Which is a shame, because I actually own a PS3 and it's just a glorified Bluray player for me due to the controller. Despite having half a dozen games for it.
Other than that minor issue (it's minor for Smash, since the other stick just does smash attacks), I've played Smash 4 with the pad controller a ton of time, especially before getting the adapter (since it took about a month to get one even though I pre-ordered one)
Given the choice, though, I'd add an additional trigger to the left side of the GCN controller and a select button and have Nintendo use that as their controller for the rest of time.
Other than that minor issue (it's minor for Smash, since the other stick just does smash attacks), I've played Smash 4 with the pad controller a ton of time, especially before getting the adapter (since it took about a month to get one even though I pre-ordered one)
Given the choice, though, I'd add an additional trigger to the left side of the GCN controller and a select button and have Nintendo use that as their controller for the rest of time.
No, but Serkan Toto said there's a Smash NX in development and he's a trusted insider. Considering the timeframe it also makes sense that its a Smash 4 port since DLC development ended not long ago.
Professor Beef
Banned
should've stopped there tbh
See, I'd have no problem with moving on. The problem is that there's no true wired option for Pro Controllers. Plus the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind concerning the GameCube Adapter.
What he/she said.
I was giving him context for the discussion. No need for your snark.
Agreed, though man if they were to make an updated GC controller design with an extra shoulder button or a Wii U Pro-like controller that's wired, I'd totally be on board.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
My preferred pronoun is whatever captains identify themselves with
Personally I'd also ask for Melee HD in place of a VC release.
Nobody said Smash on NX has to mean Sm4sh, right?
PadWarrior
Member
I thought Emily Rogers said it was?
PushDustIn
Member
Dr. Toto said Bandai Namco was developing a Smash for the upcoming Nintendo system as a launch title. He was the first to say it was a thing.
I believe Emily Rogers said Smash was 'practically guaranteed' to get ports.
There's actually good reason to believe that the porting process is happening. In 1.1.6, I found out that the internal folder structure for the files was updated. It's difficult to say with 100% certainly that it's proof that porting is happening. I talked to some programmers / developers after publishing that article and I got mixed information about 'branching'. Some use it as version control when porting, some don't. I guess I should do some more research into Bandai Namco....but since the last amiibo set haven't been revealed in the previous 3DS direct, I think it's very, very likely the announcement was saved to be tied into Smash for NX announcement. It's been several months, so Cloud, Bayonetta and Corrin amiibo should be coming out soon. That tied with Sakurai having somewhat irregular column publishing dates might indicate he is very busy with something.
Again, this is all speculation and nothing is 100% confirmed.
PadWarrior
Member
Thanks!
That Damn Kid
Member
Is it bad I knew that was Coach from the challenger approaching?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
So, that NX reveal, huh?
Ha! I already set my expectation low by expecting to see the announcement to happens during November so if it come early then it would be bonus.
Well, I'm a huge advocate for new contents for Smash NX but that doesn't meant that I would expect to see new contents for sure thing but I just would like to hope for the best tho. I know y'all probably got sick of it by now.
I'm going to buy upcoming console and Smash NX regardless new contents or not. However it's a deal breaker for me to pick it up on launch day because some people I played with on frequently basis wouldn't pick up Smash NX if it's 1:1 port.
That's why I think Sakurai, Nintendo and the team are going to implement new contents in upcoming Smash to give people the justification to purchase. Even Sakurai said in his article,
He acknowledged that new fighters itself actually draw the attentions from the fans and customers to purchase because some fans actually want to play with new characters they happens to enjoy their franchises, just like Splatoon and Rhythm Heaven.
Also Sakurai felt that he would able to work on something interesting if he remains to work on Smash Bros franchise.
Yes, it's reasonable to see upcoming Smash getting new contents based on some articles and other things, such as Nintendo and Sakurai rarely do 1:1 ports, via Yoshi Yarn 3DS, etc.
HOWEVER, the real question is, are we going to get new contents? We don't know for certain. There are so many factors that could happens with upcoming Smash developments. One more thing, I think it's possible that we could see the similiaries between Smash 64 > Melee and Sm4sh > Upcoming Smash in term of developments.
- Sakurai - it's really depend on Sakurai. Would Sakurai take a part of upcoming Smash Development? We already know the fact that Sakurai really love the franchise and he would prefer to stay hand-on with the franchise so it's likely to happens but I can't say for 100%
- Design Document - It's really depend on whenever Sakurai started to work on Design Document because it's important to plan ahead so I would like to think that he started to work on Design Document (partially) during DLC development because I'm pretty sure that they included Smash NX in the deal when they reached the deal with third party companies for Cloud, Ryu and Bayonetta, which would bring us to next point as well.
- Third Party Characters - I have a good feeling that every third party characters would come back because they made the deals with Namco-Bandai, Square-Enix, SEGA and Capcom last year when they reached out to them for license deals with Ryu, Bayonetta and Cloud for DLC, and Namco-Bandai to work on upcoming Smash. Pac Man, Sonic and Mega Man would fall under the deal as well because they probably made the license deal along with those three DLC characters.
- Team Size - Like Triforce pointed it out. It's really depend on size of the team that are working on Smash NX. If it's a same size of DLC team, then we could see similar numbers of contents, but again we could not get any new contents. If they decided to hire a sizable team that would between the sizes of DLC team and Smash 4 team, then we could see good numbers of changes and new contents. It really depends on the team's size. If the size is going to be same as Smash 4, then I think we could expect to see good numbers as well.
- Budget - If Nintendo grants Sakurai and the team(s) a good amount of budget then its possible that we could get more new contents or third party characters.
- Time - We don't have any single idea when they started the development on upcoming Smash. There are many theories on whenever it started. If they started early then they would have more time with the development, but if they started late, then they would have less time with the development. It's really depend on Smash NX's release date as well, which would bring me to next bullet point.
What if they already started working on characters' models and animations right after they are done with Corrin and Bayonetta
- Release Date - Our source said that it was planned to be one of launch title. Also I want to pointed it out that launch title could be within 6 months of console's release date. If it's going to be day 1 launch with upcoming console, then it would have less development time than people would assume. If they decided to release it like few months after March, then that's fine since it would able to provide more time for the team to work on Smash Bros. I still think Smash Bros is going to be release in 2016, POST-E3.
- History - History?! Why? I think it's an important thing to consider, considering with Nintendo's fundamental with video games. My point is they rarely made port games without any revisions, other than releasing a same game for two consoles at launch, example: Twilight Princess.
Or we might not get any new contents, and we ended up getting Smash 4 Port (1:1) and/or Melee HD! Anything could happens.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
My apologies for double post.
I'm going to make the comparsion between two different development teams, and emphasize the size of development team actually matters. I'm going to steal a list from Triforce, and for that, thanks you!
DLC Development Contents
Time: Late September 2014 - Early March 2016 (about 18 months)
Vs.
Smash 4 Development Contents
Time: Early May 2012 - October 2014 (29 months aka 2 years 5 months)
It could take Smash 4 team to make 21-ish characters and 30-ish stages per year, but it's just an idea to show how huge the team could be.
I'm going to make the comparsion between two different development teams, and emphasize the size of development team actually matters. I'm going to steal a list from Triforce, and for that, thanks you!
DLC Development Contents
Time: Late September 2014 - Early March 2016 (about 18 months)
- 3 Veterans (Mewtwo might have been made from the ground up due to not having an easy base to build off of like Ness & Lucas or Marth & Roy, so technically be as much work as a newcomer)
- 4 Newcomers with very unique mechanics on them (Corrin probably not as much in terms of unique mechanics when compared to Ryu, Cloud, and Bayonetta)
- 5 returning stages (Some with completely redone graphics, all of which got Omega forms)
- 5 new stages (Which got Omega forms also)
- 40 Mii costume packs (Some of which probably needed to have negotiations with third-parties to use certain IPs like Tales of's Lloyd costume)
- 10 or so new music remixes (and a crap ton of music rips from other games, but that doesn't seem like much effort to do)
- A slew of balance changes and updates that improved the overall balance of the roster (
)Too bad Shulk still sucks
Vs.
Smash 4 Development Contents
Time: Early May 2012 - October 2014 (29 months aka 2 years 5 months)
- 33 Veterans
- 15 Newcomers
- 3 Clones (Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario)
- 26 returning stages (17 returning stages for Wii U version, 9 returning stages for 3DS version)
- 49 new stages (23 new stages for Wii U version, 20 new stages for 3DS version, and 6 shared stages for both versions)
- Single Player Modes for both versions
- more than 500 songs
- and many more.
It could take Smash 4 team to make 21-ish characters and 30-ish stages per year, but it's just an idea to show how huge the team could be.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
heath you're not expecting me to read all that are you
because that's asking a whole lot of effort
because that's asking a whole lot of effort
balladofwindfishes
Member
And yet we can't get chakka chakka chakka chakka on Pirate Ship because porting Molgera's Theme was just too much
(I would have also liked to have the original rip of Great Sea as well. The remix is fine, but I also really like the original)
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
two comic panels from http://finalsmashcomic.tumblr.com
Nope, you don't have to read it if it's too much for you.
Nope, you don't have to read it if it's too much for you.
So yeah I made a thread for that Wavedash games stuff, most people seem to not these exist.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217255344&highlight=#post217255344
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=217255344&highlight=#post217255344
balladofwindfishes
Member
Hopefully Pichu, Ivysaur and Squirtle do come back with a vengence. And maybe Ivysaur and Pichu can actually look closer to their real game representations.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I don't think there is any gameplay video yet. Unless I missed something because I only see two characters being WIP.
What wrong with Pichu and Ivysaur? Real Game Representation?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Pichu in Melee
Pichu in Pokemon
- Ear stripes are much larger and triangle shaped, not rounded
- Neck fur is larger
- Body is thinner
- Head is way smaller
- Bigger mouth, eyes closer together
- Brown eyes
Here's what Pichu would probably look like in Smash 4 (this is a redraw of his 3DS trophy)
Ivysaur in Brawl
Ivysaur in Pokemon
- More upright, skinnier
- Less "scary" eyes
- Eyes aren't sunken in as much
- Body is bluer, spots are darker
- Teeth larger
- Toes are smaller and pointier.
Every other Pokemon in Smash 4 was updated to look more like they do in the actual Pokemon games, so it would have been nice to see Pichu and Ivysaur in Smash 4 style. Squirtle in Brawl was basically the same as in Pokemon, just with a "rougher" shell, but that's not really that different.
I always thought Pichu was kind of funky looking in Melee, and Ivysaur looks kind of too mean in Brawl (although a lot of characters that shouldn't look mean, do in Brawl, Mario for example).
Pichu in Pokemon
- Ear stripes are much larger and triangle shaped, not rounded
- Neck fur is larger
- Body is thinner
- Head is way smaller
- Bigger mouth, eyes closer together
- Brown eyes
Here's what Pichu would probably look like in Smash 4 (this is a redraw of his 3DS trophy)
Ivysaur in Brawl
Ivysaur in Pokemon
- More upright, skinnier
- Less "scary" eyes
- Eyes aren't sunken in as much
- Body is bluer, spots are darker
- Teeth larger
- Toes are smaller and pointier.
Every other Pokemon in Smash 4 was updated to look more like they do in the actual Pokemon games, so it would have been nice to see Pichu and Ivysaur in Smash 4 style. Squirtle in Brawl was basically the same as in Pokemon, just with a "rougher" shell, but that's not really that different.
I always thought Pichu was kind of funky looking in Melee, and Ivysaur looks kind of too mean in Brawl (although a lot of characters that shouldn't look mean, do in Brawl, Mario for example).
Do you know how many people (developers, art team, animators, level & game design, & cie...) are working/needed for a single Smash Bros. game?
Green Mamba
Member
Some of those differences with Pichu are only true of modern Pichu, Pichu's official art for Gold & Silver is closer to its Melee design.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Some of those differences with Pichu are only true of modern Pichu, Pichu's official art for Gold & Silver is closer to its Melee design.
The ear stripes are still way off
But yea, my point was mostly just wanting to see the old Pokemon be updated like Mewtwo, Pikachu and Jigglypuff were. They look awesome in Smash 4. Charizard just got a recolor and some longer teeth, and I'm not really sure anything major changed on Lucario.
Green Mamba
Member
I getcha.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
to be fair we've had to deal with fat pikachu as recently as 2008's Brawl, long after his official game art got thinner.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yeah, I'm aware of how many people were working on certain projects. The numbers are varies on versions' developments. I know my summary was pretty too short and not detailed here but I already discussed the depth of the team(s) and how they could works in discord with some buddies. My apologies if I didn't really elaborate enough on that.
Pichu in Melee
Alright thanks! I didn't had any problems with Pichu because I meant, look at this picture.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nah Smashchu uses anime Pikachu, which matches perfectly. It's not fatchu, it's well even chu.
Thank goodness though that they aren't using the abomination that is, advertisementchu.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Diamond and Pearl Anime Pikachu
Brawl Pikachu wasn't based on the anime, or at least, the anime at the time of Brawl's release. The ears are the obvious difference, but the general body shape seems off as well. Seems to just be an updated Melee appearance, which used the way old anime style for Pikachu.
Also the more I look at it, the more DP anime Pikachu looks super freaking weird
Smash 4 has the best Pikachu. Although Smash 64 was fine, as well, with the model mostly just being an updated Stadium model. Pikachu was gross in Brawl and meh in Melee.
It was also nice of Smash 4 to finally fix Jigglypuff looking dead inside with its old vacant stare. She's adorable in Smash 4. She's creepy in Brawl.
Brawl Pikachu wasn't based on the anime, or at least, the anime at the time of Brawl's release. The ears are the obvious difference, but the general body shape seems off as well. Seems to just be an updated Melee appearance, which used the way old anime style for Pikachu.
Also the more I look at it, the more DP anime Pikachu looks super freaking weird
Smash 4 has the best Pikachu. Although Smash 64 was fine, as well, with the model mostly just being an updated Stadium model. Pikachu was gross in Brawl and meh in Melee.
It was also nice of Smash 4 to finally fix Jigglypuff looking dead inside with its old vacant stare. She's adorable in Smash 4. She's creepy in Brawl.
She's derpy in 4. Mouth almost between the eyes.
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's interesting that Smash 4 is the first game in the series where Jigglypuff was 100% guaranteed to come back
That seems to me to indicate she's now going to be around forever and there isn't this dread every new Smash that maybe this is one where Jigglypuff is cut.
That seems to me to indicate she's now going to be around forever and there isn't this dread every new Smash that maybe this is one where Jigglypuff is cut.
Now I get to worry about Mewtwo, oh boy!
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Hey, at least your character is heavily requested.
I was pretty confident we'd never see Doc again after all the whining about "wasting slots" and clones and all that.
Green Mamba
Member
Dr. Mario's a secondary of mine (and I mained him back in Melee) and honestly I don't think I'd actually miss him at this point. He's nice to have when he's there, but the roster's big enough that Mario in a coat being missing isn't going to kill me.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Doc's ease of addition makes me not as concerned about him, even if he's my secondary main (Mewtwo being my main) in Smash 4 and my main in Melee.
I think Brawl had two things going for it that cut Doc out of the picture:
- Sakurai didn't want "true" clones for Brawl, so he had to work towards remaking old clones. Ganondorf and Falco had significant changes and Young Link was turned into an entirely new character with the same sort of flavor. This meant addition development time, and in cases like Doc, there just isn't really much there to make major moveset changes.
- Brawl seems like it was on a razor edge time table, and seems like it was rushed towards the end. Doc obviously is not a character that anyone will prioritize bringing back, so he get put on the backburner for Jigglypuff and Young Link redo + Wolf as a newcomer. Given the choice between Toon Link, Jigglypuff, Wolf and Doc, I'm not going to pick Doc over those three, even as much as I enjoy his game style.
I think Doc will come back though. He's too easy to bring back, and his down air and neutral special are mostly worth the tiny bit of effort. He's also a different sort of Mario character, one that isn't a main character from proper Mario games or even spin offs. He's a Mario character entirely self contained in his own series, and that makes him unique, to me, as a Mario character.
I was super hyped when he was leaked though. I was disappointed to see quite a lot of people were not pleased at all he came back when he was leaked, but they eventually came around to him.
I think Brawl had two things going for it that cut Doc out of the picture:
- Sakurai didn't want "true" clones for Brawl, so he had to work towards remaking old clones. Ganondorf and Falco had significant changes and Young Link was turned into an entirely new character with the same sort of flavor. This meant addition development time, and in cases like Doc, there just isn't really much there to make major moveset changes.
- Brawl seems like it was on a razor edge time table, and seems like it was rushed towards the end. Doc obviously is not a character that anyone will prioritize bringing back, so he get put on the backburner for Jigglypuff and Young Link redo + Wolf as a newcomer. Given the choice between Toon Link, Jigglypuff, Wolf and Doc, I'm not going to pick Doc over those three, even as much as I enjoy his game style.
I think Doc will come back though. He's too easy to bring back, and his down air and neutral special are mostly worth the tiny bit of effort. He's also a different sort of Mario character, one that isn't a main character from proper Mario games or even spin offs. He's a Mario character entirely self contained in his own series, and that makes him unique, to me, as a Mario character.
I was super hyped when he was leaked though. I was disappointed to see quite a lot of people were not pleased at all he came back when he was leaked, but they eventually came around to him.
balladofwindfishes
Member
I wish Sakurai would discuss why Mewtwo was cut in Brawl. It's all water under the bridge now (Mewtwo is back, and probably for good now), so there shouldn't be any tears from people (I hope). It's almost certainly a lack of time and resources, but I want to know the process of deciding between Mewtwo and Jigglypuff.
I've always figured he only had time for one Pokemon vet, and decided on Jigglypuff due to seniority and being a much easier moveset to add and balance. Mewtwo's moveset was one of the most complex in Melee, Jigglypuff's is not at all. Also Mewtwo's Melee design was way out of design with the modern Pokemon design for Mewtwo of the time, since Mewtwo is probably the most visually redesigned Pokemon of FR/LG. Jigglypuff could more easily get away with a simple update of her Melee model.
I've always figured he only had time for one Pokemon vet, and decided on Jigglypuff due to seniority and being a much easier moveset to add and balance. Mewtwo's moveset was one of the most complex in Melee, Jigglypuff's is not at all. Also Mewtwo's Melee design was way out of design with the modern Pokemon design for Mewtwo of the time, since Mewtwo is probably the most visually redesigned Pokemon of FR/LG. Jigglypuff could more easily get away with a simple update of her Melee model.
Ignoring the time sink that was subspace, the easier
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yea, that goes in hand with them running out of time.
But I'm wondering why Jigglypuff, Toon/Young Link and Wolf, versus, say, Jigglypuff, Toon Link and Mewtwo. Or Mewtwo, Toon Link and Wolf. Or Mewtwo, Jigglypuff and Wolf (this seems unlikely, given Toon Link was the late addition with the least work to do).
I do think between Young Link, Doc, Roy and Pichu, he made the only choice that makes sense. Toon Link is a good addition and fits in Smash really well, while being different from his base character, both design wise and gameplay wise. Doc, Roy and Pichu just wouldn't have been able to work that well (and evidence shows Pichu wasn't even in the running at all)
I also kind of wonder if Toon Link was planned earlier on, but then dropped, to be picked up later. Always found it weird that such a late addition has a proper stage that doesn't feel like a last minute addition at all. Tingle also uses his Wind Waker design, and there are plenty of Wind Waker themed trophies. All of which make more sense with Toon Link as a character.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
IIRC Mewtwo and Roy were the furthest ahead of the cut characters in Brawl, they were likely cut due to time reasons. Remember that Brawl had already been delayed by the time Sonic was shown off, I don't think they wanted to keep pushing back the dates anymore than they had to.
I think Sakurai's planned roster was bigger than what we got, and as he got pressed for time he needed to make some quick changes. I guess at that point he figured "Mewtwo got his time, why not Wolf?"
Personally I wouldn't miss Doc but I will ask for him in every smash game no matter what.
I think Sakurai's planned roster was bigger than what we got, and as he got pressed for time he needed to make some quick changes. I guess at that point he figured "Mewtwo got his time, why not Wolf?"
Personally I wouldn't miss Doc but I will ask for him in every smash game no matter what.