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Super Smash Bros. Community Thread |OT| Next Super Smash Bros. Discussion
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Replacement.
balladofwindfishes
Member
They play nothing at all. That's like saying Luigi can replace Pikachu because they have somewhat similar side specials.
Considering both co-exist in Smash 4 just fine, and Lucario was planned for Brawl very early on, and Mewtwo was cut very late on, it seems very unlikely Lucario was ever meant as a replacement for Mewtwo.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Nah b
you gotta have the fair. It ain't the same without the Doctor Dunk. I also can't live without Doc's new up-B now, if you gave that to Mario it's gg.
balladofwindfishes
Member
At that point, they already have the animations, so what would even be the point of cutting him?
TheDinoman
Member
Because they're rebranding Dr Mario to Isabelle's Fruit Baskets in order to push a quick game out with her on the cover.
This is strictly confidential so don't tell anyone.
Professor Beef
Banned
PushDustIn
Member
It's kind of difficult to say with 100% confidence which characters got the furthest. Development isn't exactly linear, and many parts can be worked on at the same time. Dixie got to the development stage but was cut after the tag team mechanic didn't work out as intended.
I believe Mewtwo and Roy have blank Wii Remote sound files which is the reason people think they got the furthest. In this Brawl interview with Nintendo Dream (http://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/17/sakuraibrawlquestions/)
Sakurai says if he had less time, then we wouldn't have gotten as many characters...but if he had more we might have gotten an additional 1-2 characters (if you count Toon Link, Jigglypuff and Wolf). It could be Mewtwo and Roy, but we just don't know as he never said.
There's a really odd thing about Brawl's character Instance Slot. Let me copy and paste from the Definitive Unused Fighter List update (http://sourcegaming.info/2016/04/29/duflupdate/)
Originally people thought that MarioD was some sort of debug version of Mario. But frankly that doesn't make sense as there's never been another debug Mario in other Smash games, and it's in the last "slot". If it was debug it should have been first.
So my guess is that Dr. Mario was on the brink of coming back in Brawl. It's just a theory though, as Sakurai hasn't confirmed anything.
Also, thanks to Sonic for the delay. Without Sonic we might not have gotten Wolf or Jigglypuff.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Same here. I was so thrilled that I got Dark Pit and Dr. Mario in. I wish that they would have enough time to get Alph in as clone character since they actually planned to.
TheDinoman
Member
Mewtwo isn't a trash character design as well, at least after his buffs.
Fucking Lucario. Rewarding people for getting hit isn't good design and I'm getting tired of Sakurai throwing that shit into Smash.
There's the infamous Rage mechanic, but as someone who plays Little Mac a lot, I hate the fact that not only does taking damage fills his power meter, but from my experience it seems to fill it way quicker than when doing damage to enemies. Not only is it just more dumb rewarding people for being bad stupidity, it's also kinda goes against the whole principle of Punch-Out!!'s gameplay.
Whether you're playing the arcade games/Super Punch-Out!! SNES or the NES/Wii games, PO!! games have always been about rewarding players for playing optimally. The power meter design in the former games fills when the player keeps hitting the opponent and goes down when the opponent manages to hit the player. The latter games reward Little Mac with star punches by hitting the opponents' secret weak spots and once again takes them away when Mac gets hit. So it just seems dumb to me that Mac's meter in Smash actually encourages him to take a hit when the actual KO mechanics in Punch-Out!! are about rewarding people for playing smart and not getting hit. Not to mention it just makes fighting Mac more stressful because you could just end up activating his KO punch and wound up being wrecked by it. A similar thing that makes Cloud obnoxious to fight, but at least it only takes like one or two hits to disable Mac's thing.
Fucking Lucario. Rewarding people for getting hit isn't good design and I'm getting tired of Sakurai throwing that shit into Smash.
There's the infamous Rage mechanic, but as someone who plays Little Mac a lot, I hate the fact that not only does taking damage fills his power meter, but from my experience it seems to fill it way quicker than when doing damage to enemies. Not only is it just more dumb rewarding people for being bad stupidity, it's also kinda goes against the whole principle of Punch-Out!!'s gameplay.
Whether you're playing the arcade games/Super Punch-Out!! SNES or the NES/Wii games, PO!! games have always been about rewarding players for playing optimally. The power meter design in the former games fills when the player keeps hitting the opponent and goes down when the opponent manages to hit the player. The latter games reward Little Mac with star punches by hitting the opponents' secret weak spots and once again takes them away when Mac gets hit. So it just seems dumb to me that Mac's meter in Smash actually encourages him to take a hit when the actual KO mechanics in Punch-Out!! are about rewarding people for playing smart and not getting hit. Not to mention it just makes fighting Mac more stressful because you could just end up activating his KO punch and wound up being wrecked by it. A similar thing that makes Cloud obnoxious to fight, but at least it only takes like one or two hits to disable Mac's thing.
I don't mind clones much but they tend to feel like missed opportunities IMO.
For example, Dr. Mario could easily have moves based on his games other than the pill instead of fireball. Dark Pit has a huge array of weapons he could've used for his moves. Lucina is fine I guess, can't think of ways to differentiate her since she's pretty much a sword user with no gimmicks.
For example, Dr. Mario could easily have moves based on his games other than the pill instead of fireball. Dark Pit has a huge array of weapons he could've used for his moves. Lucina is fine I guess, can't think of ways to differentiate her since she's pretty much a sword user with no gimmicks.
Professor Beef
Banned
it's a good thing that it doesn't work the way you describe, then
That's right, he added him retroactively after the game was finished.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Why did they nerf Lucario's Up B with that ridiculously long recovery after landing?
Because with how crazy fast it becomes with aura, it became an absurd pain to punish.
MrSaturn99
Member
Going back to Dr. Mario for a moment, it's funny how little I thought of his cut for Brawl and never expected to see him again, yet I was hyped as all hell when was leaked.
Such a silly concept. I guess I could live without him too but I don't want him to leave now, lol.
Such a silly concept. I guess I could live without him too but I don't want him to leave now, lol.
Professor Beef
Banned
You can kinda mitigate it by aiming at the ground, but I think that's only if he's already on the ground. I forget.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
but he has that lag even with 0 aura!
balladofwindfishes
Member
Speaking of Doc, does anyone else not like his official pose?
The way he's holding the pill is weird (it's not like how he holds it for his taunt or victory animation) and the pose isn't really based on any official pose of Doc. He's also the only returning cut Melee vet whose pose isn't his Melee pose. He looks too serious and stiff. The position of his feet also don't seem right, given the angle of the picture
Project M had a better idea
Similar pose, but much more upbeat and natural looking, and he's holding the pills more like he does for his victory animation
Ultimately, I think he should have been posed like this
Hands behind his back, holding the pills like a sane person (and how he holds it in his Melee official art) and more natural and "Dr Mario" looking.
The way he's holding the pill is weird (it's not like how he holds it for his taunt or victory animation) and the pose isn't really based on any official pose of Doc. He's also the only returning cut Melee vet whose pose isn't his Melee pose. He looks too serious and stiff. The position of his feet also don't seem right, given the angle of the picture
Project M had a better idea
Similar pose, but much more upbeat and natural looking, and he's holding the pills more like he does for his victory animation
Ultimately, I think he should have been posed like this
Hands behind his back, holding the pills like a sane person (and how he holds it in his Melee official art) and more natural and "Dr Mario" looking.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Looking at his Melee pose, I'm not sure they could have remade it. A lot of awkward coat model stretching and some minor clipping. It's also not the best pose in the world
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
I like how Doc is because he gives off this feeling of "I ain't taking anyone's shit", kinda like the natural conclusion to Smash Mario being serious and angry lol
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I can't wait for Riot of the Blood Lycanroc in Smash 5
Can't say for sure, but back during the 3DS days Lucario was pretty annoying to deal with on For Glory. Like, I remember a lot of people struggling to deal with him, so I always saw the nerf as a way for For Glory players to beat Lucario players. It IS pretty odd, though.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Charizard, Greninja and Robinroot will make a nice trio, though. And there's no doubt in my mind Robinroot will be the next Pokemon new comer.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Green Mamba
Member
I like super srs bsns Dr. Mario, I think it would work better as a dichotomy with regular Mario if regular Mario dialed back on it.
Everyone keeps saying that, but I just don't see it!
balladofwindfishes
Member
It's kind of weird how bright and colorful Smash 4 is, but a lot of the expressions and stuff of some characters are still rooted in the "edgy" more realistic style of Melee and Brawl.
Mario for example is mean in Smash 4 for seemingly no reason and in contrast to his visual design (let alone his actual personality in his games).
Bowser has the same problem. Smash 4 has his normal looking design, but he still acts like his old "scary" Melee/Brawl style, versus his goofy, strong man like, meathead style that modern Mario games portray him as.
And you have characters like Donkey Kong, Diddy and Bowser who still make realistic noises as a relic of past Smash games being more serious and realistic, while looking cartoony and more like their proper appearance. DK still bothers me A LOT with this because his voice is pretty consistent and distinct.
I wouldn't mind at all if Doc stayed super serious, but Mario dialed it back a bit, got a new, happier voice, and was a little more excited and upbeat. Luigi and Wario manage to not look super serious and stay relatively true to their origins, but Mr Nintendo himself they mess up badly on.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
what do you think that are more likely pokemon from generation 7 or ORAS?
I don't think anything is definite for Smash Bros franchise since people should learn from their hype for last three games. It would be nice if we actually going to get pure archer for Smash Bros, like Hawkeye and Green Arrow.
balladofwindfishes
Member
That's why I think Oliverqueenokem is the perfect new Smash rep for Pokemon. What other chance does Sakurai have for an archer character! And one that's a Pokemon! And another bird! And a grass type starter to complete the long anticipated starter trilogy.
He is the perfect Pokemon for Smash based on nothing but visual design and attack gimmick.
And while everyone names their's Haweye or Robin, imma naming mine Oliver.
He is the perfect Pokemon for Smash based on nothing but visual design and attack gimmick.
And while everyone names their's Haweye or Robin, imma naming mine Oliver.
Professor Beef
Banned
balladofwindfishes
Member
New grass starter final evolution
Archer owl. Doesn't have a name yet, so people just call it whatever they want related to archery
Gen 7, without a doubt. As for the Pokemon choice itself...
I couldn't tell you, honestly. Need more time.
Gen 7, without a doubt. As for the Pokemon choice itself...
I couldn't tell you, honestly. Need more time.
There is literally no chance of a playable Dodrio.
Nocturnowl
Member
You mean "hoo"
Professor Beef
Banned
and YOU mean "hoot!"
balladofwindfishes
Member
johncenacrotchflame
balladofwindfishes
Member
Has anyone given a thought to giving every character a z-air.
Not giving everyone a tether, just using z-air as another input to do another move. Z-air is the only input in Smash that only some characters use and others have nothing assigned to that button, and that feels kind of awkward to me.
Or maybe have it be a recovery focused attack for most characters (but not all, just like up specials). For example, Mario could do his quick Mario Galaxy style spin and get a very slight height bump.
Some ideas:
Mario: Galaxy Spin
Yoshi: Tongue Tether
Olimar: Pikmin Chain
Sonic: Quick Homing Attack, no charge, short distance horizontal dash with slight homing on very close enemies
Megaman: X Dash, air version of X's signature dash
Wario: Ground pound from Wario Land
Not giving everyone a tether, just using z-air as another input to do another move. Z-air is the only input in Smash that only some characters use and others have nothing assigned to that button, and that feels kind of awkward to me.
Or maybe have it be a recovery focused attack for most characters (but not all, just like up specials). For example, Mario could do his quick Mario Galaxy style spin and get a very slight height bump.
Some ideas:
Mario: Galaxy Spin
Yoshi: Tongue Tether
Olimar: Pikmin Chain
Sonic: Quick Homing Attack, no charge, short distance horizontal dash with slight homing on very close enemies
Megaman: X Dash, air version of X's signature dash
Wario: Ground pound from Wario Land
Professor Beef
Banned
All the Z button is is a combination of block+attack. It's not an actual, individual button/action.
Captain Rage Quit 69
Banned
Zair is dumb enough on ZSS and Tink, why would you give it to everyone, fuck that
Yeah, this z-air talk confused the hell out of me.