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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT| It's out in Japan

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Dr.Hadji

Member
I don't remember it ever being taken seriously, that's part of the reason I ended up jumping ship (and regrettably, not taking up competitive Melee). If anything it held the entire Smash scene back because it divided up the player base. It was after Brawl died and Melee was coming back around that Smash started building up to the point it's at now. At least from what I remember.

64 was always that extra-hardcore game on the side where people would try and fail to beat sandbagging Isai.

Ug, man where are you getting this stuff from? You don't have tourneys with 100+ people in them with contestants traveling from all over the world if your scene isn't taken seriously. If you mean there was/is a dedicated group of people who spit ill will and malice towards Brawl and the people who play it, then sure that has been around since the beginning.

And I hear this a lot but Brawl didn't split the community. Melee fan's reaction to Brawl split the community. I don't know know why a game would take the blame for people choosing to treat each other poorly enough to the point where divisions happened.
 

Hatchtag

Banned
Equipment is even more random to obtain than custom moves, a lot have broken after effects, and some have ridiculous stat boosts. I doubt it'd ever be a standard.

They're not that broken, imo. Plus, if everybody's broken, no one will be.
I'm mostly just saying they shouldn't be as quickly dismissed as people have been dismissing them. They actually deserve some looking into, because they really do add a lot of speed to the game that some people feel is missing.
 
I really kinda worry that the wait from the 3DS release until the Wii U release is gonna be kinda frustrating. It's like... it's here in my hands, but I can't really play yet. Like the controls are just taunting me.
You try recalibrating pad? The controls feel very good to me. It impressed me a lot
 

Fandangox

Member
Of course, I'm still picking up this game. I'm just concerned about my hands not being comfortable with 3DS. I can't really doing very well as I did for consoles' smash games. I'm concerned about my ability to get 100% complete for Smash 3DS. We will see.

Yeah my hands seem not adjusting very well as I would like it to.

Oh I see, I managed to get used to it pretty quickly thanks to the demo, only problem for a while was dodging with R.
 

Lord Phol

Member
Stop giving attention to such a tiny part of the competitive community then.

I definetly try to, I do that alot in life in general. Sadly I'm not an emotionless robot, so sometimes all the anger just boils over, hence the venting. Thanks for the tip though! It's easy to forget loose yourself when things get a bit heated.
 

FSLink

Banned
They're not that broken, imo. Plus, if everybody's broken, no one will be.
I'm mostly just saying they shouldn't be as quickly dismissed as people have been dismissing them. They actually deserve some looking into, because they really do add a lot of speed to the game that some people feel is missing.
Have you played the full game yet? Some have stuff like having Starmen on spawning, a healing passive effect, etc.

I'd love to see side events with it but I highly doubt it'd ever be a standard. Plus there'd be shit like Jigglypuff with max defense so she isn't knocked around far. All signs are leading to a no.
 

emb

Member
You try recalibrating pad? The controls feel very good to me. It impressed me a lot
I'll give it a shot... but I still don't think I'll be very happy with it.

Don't get me wrong, I was also very surprised by how well the 3DS works for controls. It just feels like I'm shackled by it. It's like sleeping on the ground outside every night, when I just want to curl up in my own bed with blankets and pillows under a nice roof. I want my Cube controller.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Oh I see, I managed to get used to it pretty quickly thanks to the demo, only problem for a while was dodging with R.

I have the demo for a week but I managed to get better with the control but it's not my full power yet. Seeing people getting 4 or 5 stocks made me feeling that I suck at the game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. Like I said 3DS control and my hands don't get along.
 
It's not only to reduce your knockback though. You can use the mechanic to increase your knockback too. Why is it a good addition when considering all the other defensive options the game has, the recoveries being mostly buffed across the board and edge hogging being removed? It's excessive to add this mechanic on top of this and it's far too strong. Watching ZeRo's stream makes this apparent as he's able to live much, much longer because of this one mechanic.

I'm still looking forward to the game despite my complaint about this, but I can't say that this hasn't put a damper on my excitement.

I'm not completely up to date with the ins and outs of the advanced mechanics of the Smash series. I will comment and say from the streams I've watched and I've played the demo a lot, I can KO people a lot easier than in Brawl. Brawl I could be using specials and smash attacks and not kill someone who was at 200%. This game 150% is almost a guaranteed KO. This is just from my memory but I remember Brawl being a lot harder to KO people than 4. 4 feels and looks a lot better in that regard. I think 4 also has advanced mechanics that can satisfy competitive players without looking too complex/abnormal for casual players like it did in Melee.
 

Hatchtag

Banned
Have you played the full game yet? Some have stuff like having Starmen on invincibility, a healing passive effect, etc.

I'd love to see side events with it but I highly doubt it'd ever be a standard. Plus there'd be shit like Jigglypuff with max defense so she isn't knocked around far. All signs are leading to a no.

I've played it for 35 hours and have owned it since launch. The matches I've played with equipment and customs on have definitely been faster and arguably more fun than the ones without it.
 

ffdgh

Member
I have the demo for a week but I managed to get better with the control but it's not my full power yet. Seeing people getting 4 or 5 stocks made me feeling that I suck at the game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. Like I said 3DS control and my hands don't get along.

4 or 5? I'm satisfied with getting 2 and the occasional 3 KO's lol.
 

Next

Member
It probably was a bit over the top, but it's my general opinion of the Brawl competitive scene,
It's just that though, an opinion. Plenty of people have another, different opinion.

they tried to make the game something it clearly wasn't designed to be
as did melee before.

and it is nowhere near as interesting to spectators,
your opinion of course.

but you'll still have people saying it's just as good when it clearly isn't/wasn't.

I would agree that melee is more suited for competitive play. That's never been the issue. This discussion came about because of people like you talking as if brawl never had a scene, or that it wasn't taken seriously.
 

KirbyKid

Member
This is something melee players continue to ignore. I feel like most people talking about this only watched the melee docummentary and as a consequence have a very distorted idea of what happened. Brawl was bigger than melee for a good 5 years, during which many people enjoyed its the competitive scene, and that only recently died. People are even talking like "64 and melee had a competitive scene" leaving out brawl, when 64 barely had any competitive scene.

I agree as well. The Smash community is bigger than we know, more complicated than we think, and messier than we're willing to admit. This isn't a diss on the community that I'm actively a part of. It's just the reality of a growing population. With more people come more/bigger problems.

Check this out: http://smash.menu

I've mentioned this survey/project a few times here on GAF because anyone who plays Smash has a valid view of Smash and I want to listen to everyone before proceeding to try and help the community. Every community (GAF, Smashboards, etc.) is different too. Gotta make sure my fellow GAFers are heard.
 

Dr.Hadji

Member
This is something melee players continue to ignore. I feel like most people talking about this only watched the melee docummentary and as a consequence have a very distorted idea of what happened. Brawl was bigger than melee for a good 5 years, during which many people enjoyed its the competitive scene, and that only recently died. People are even talking like "64 and melee had a competitive scene" leaving out brawl, when 64 barely had any competitive scene.

This isn't an uncommon thought. A lot of people in the Smash scene (from both the Melee and the Brawl side) share the same opinion. The Smash Doc horribly misrepresented Brawl and now we have a lot of people parroting what they watched in the video.
 

FSLink

Banned
I've played it for 35 hours and have owned it since launch. The matches I've played with equipment and customs on have definitely been faster and arguably more fun than the ones without it.
I think they are fun but hilariously broke. I'd personally would not like seeing it asn the standard especially when people generally see the character balance as somewhat good at the moment. I think it would go out of the window fast with certain builds.
 

emb

Member
I agree as well. The Smash community is bigger than we know, more complicated than we think, and messier than we're willing to admit. This isn't a diss on the community that I'm actively a part of. It's just the reality of a growing population. With more people come more/bigger problems.

Check this out: http://smash.menu

I've mentioned this survey/project a few times here on GAF because anyone who plays Smash has a valid view of Smash and I want to listen to everyone before proceeding to try and help the community. Every community (GAF, Smashboards, etc.) is different too. Gotta make sure my fellow GAFers are heard.
I saw this plugged on one of the Smash 4 streams too. It seems like it's been a long time since the last time I saw you post it here, so I imagine you've gotten tons of good feedback, at least hopefully.
 

Ryce

Member
Does anyone know offhand what the development time for this game was compared to Brawl?
Brawl development began in October 2005, and the game went gold in December 2007 -- that's 26 months of dev time. Development on this game started in April 2012, and it went gold in August 2014 -- so 28 months total.
 

georly

Member
I've played it for 35 hours and have owned it since launch. The matches I've played with equipment and customs on have definitely been faster and arguably more fun than the ones without it.

Do we know if there's an actual list of all custom items, or are they randomly generated? Because some custom items are inherently better than others. Like you can have 2 items w/ +25 attack, but one will have -6 defense, and another will have -15 defense. It's a bit unfair to people who don't have the best equipment.
 

emb

Member
This isn't an uncommon thought. A lot of people in the Smash scene (from both the Melee and the Brawl side) share the same opinion. The Smash Doc horribly misrepresented Brawl and now we have a lot of people parroting what they watched in the video.
Among a lot of newer players, it seems like the documentary did get them into it.

But ignorance of Brawl seems like it's been pretty common in the Melee community, even when Brawl was pulling in bigger numbers. I think often, too often, when people talk about Smash being competitive they just mean Smash being fun for them when competing. It's all horribly subjective.
 

Hatchtag

Banned
I think they are fun but hilariously broke. I'd personally would not like seeing it asn the standard especially when people generally see the character balance as somewhat good at the moment. I think it would go out of the window fast with certain builds.

It might, but it could make things more fun. I donno. It's something that will need extensive testing, and I hope the competitive community doesn't just immediately dismiss it.
Imo, there could end up being three scenes for this game:
-No customization
-Custom moves
-Custom moves and equipment.
I think they could all end up being uniquely pretty fun.
 

Fandangox

Member
I have the demo for a week but I managed to get better with the control but it's not my full power yet. Seeing people getting 4 or 5 stocks made me feeling that I suck at the game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's true. Like I said 3DS control and my hands don't get along.

Nah, getting 4/5 stocks on level 9 cpus is not that hard cause they are exploitable, Just keep playing until the controls feel more untuitive, and mess around with the control options once you have the full game.
 

emb

Member
Brawl development began in October 2005, and the game went gold in December 2007 -- that's 26 months of dev time. Development on this game started in April 2012, and it went gold in August 2014 -- so 28 months total.
Based on the release dates of 64 and Melee, Melee probably had a similar amount of time. Do we have better data for that, or any data for 64's development time?
 

Next

Member
Among a lot of newer players, it seems like the documentary did get them into it.

But ignorance of Brawl seems like it's been pretty common in the Melee community, even when Brawl was pulling in bigger numbers. I think often, too often, when people talk about Smash being competitive they just mean Smash being fun for them when competing. It's all horribly subjective.

I would go a step further and say that when most people talk about smash being competitive they just mean smash being fun to watch.
 

Lunar15

Member
Whatever your feelings may be about the "core nature of smash" or whether it was ever intentionally competitive or not, the only thing I ask is that people avoid assumptions about the opinions of a group as a whole and condescending statements.

You wouldn't believe the amount of those kind of comments that I see from both sides. People tend to think it only comes from the more competitively inclined players, but there's so much of it coming from people who just want to dismiss every competitive aspect of the game.

Smash has always had both random and skill based elements in all games, so claiming that the type of gameplay you favor is the one and only way to play is completely wrong. So just don't do that. At the same time, if you're a player who enjoys the party aspect and doesn't care about any of the higher level, skill based play, don't get all uppity when someone who does has some issues about how those elements are changed in the current game. It doesn't affect you, so therefore don't worry about it. On the flipside, if you're only focused on the competitive aspects, don't get frustrated when people do not share your complaints because it doesn't affect them.

The overall point here is that sometimes you just need to take a step back, recognize if what someone is talking about really actually matters and affects you, and then determine if you have anything meaningful to add to that discussion. If you don't, ignore it and move on with your life. You'll have a much more enjoyable experience with smash and so will everyone else.

Just don't be a dick, I guess.
 

Ryce

Member
Based on the release dates of 64 and Melee, Melee probably had a similar amount of time. Do we have better data for that, or any data for 64's development time?
Sakurai finished his Melee planning document in July 1999, but I don't know when development itself started. I'd guess a month or two after that. There's a really bad mistranslation going around that Melee was made in 12 months, but that's obviously not correct.
 
Whatever your feelings may be about the "core nature of smash" or whether it was ever intentionally competitive or not, the only thing I ask is that people avoid assumptions about the opinions of a group as a whole and condescending statements.

You wouldn't believe the amount of those kind of comments that I see from both sides. People tend to think it only comes from the more competitively inclined players, but there's so much of it coming from people who just want to dismiss every competitive aspect of the game.

Smash has always had both random and skill based elements in all games, so claiming that the type of gameplay you favor is the one and only way to play is completely wrong. So just don't do that. At the same time, if you're a player who enjoys the party aspect and doesn't care about any of the higher level, skill based play, don't get all uppity when someone who does has some issues about how those elements are changed in the current game. It doesn't affect you, so therefore don't worry about it.

Just don't be a dick, I guess.
This. This so much. I posed about as much earlier, but respect goes a long way in getting your voice heard.
 

Revven

Member
tAukS1K.png

There's my "roster". I'm still a little iffy on some of the choices in it, the last few being ones I'm more interested in just trying out rather than actually playing them seriously. I am going to try every newcomer once regardless but the ones on that roster are the ones I'm probably going to be using.

I put my veteran mains at the front but I don't think they'll stay that way for very long, it's very possible I'll main a newcomer and then my secondaries will be vets or something.

Beyond that, those are the characters I'm looking to possibly dig into.
 

OceanBlue

Member
If people don't want to adapt to the new mechanics, they shouldn't be playing the game competitively. Simple as that.

Well, I'm sure there are people who intend to go back to one of the older games if they don't enjoy this one. As others have said, people are discussing the new mechanics because they want to play this game lol.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Can anyone find a tweet or comment when Sakurai mention that we are almost bottom if barrel with newcomer trailers and when did he said that?
 
Can anyone find a tweet or comment when Sakurai mention that we are almost bottom if barrel with newcomer trailers and when did he said that?

It was on miiverse when he was announcing the Robin/Lucina/Falcon trailer.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAADRUqGG_w5Nyg
Sakurai said:
Looks like we're nearing the bottom of the stash of new challenger videos that we've made... Like always, we put a lot of effort into it, so I hope you'll enjoy watching it live.
 

mStudios

Member
Well, I'm sure there are people who intend to go back to one of the older games if they don't enjoy this one. As others have said, people are discussing the new mechanics because they want to play this game lol.
I take Street Fighter as a example:
If SF designers would be listening to the players, we would probably be stuck in SF Turbo II.
Same goes to SF:3rd -> Street Fighter 4. Players adapted to the new mechanics.

It seems like the melee scene just don't want to develop/adapt to new skills.

It's not about adapting to new mechanics. It's about enjoying those new mechanics.

Well, so far doesn't seems "boring."
 

KirbyKid

Member
I saw this plugged on one of the Smash 4 streams too. It seems like it's been a long time since the last time I saw you post it here, so I imagine you've gotten tons of good feedback, at least hopefully.

It has been a long time... which is both good and bad. I've been making adjustments and doing a lot of ground work. I have about 394 responses so far.

The quality of the feedback has been eye opening. You just don't know what people truly feel and think until you get them into a place where they can speak their mind without any kind of social pressure.

The Smash community has these complex community problems. And I don't know if anyone else is trying to step up in a way that will be very effective. Fortunately, I'm ready and willing to work with anyone who understands how needed Project SMASH is.
 
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