Supporters, protesters clash at Berkeley Trump rally

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Sou Da said:
These are the folks you're dealing with.

hZYKTpa.png



So which mod is assigned to be my jewish master btw?
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Soros
 
Emerson said:
That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.
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Even if you aren't a racists, but how is voting someone into power who does hold those views not just as dangerous?
 
Amir0x said:
Then stop using comical coded language as a cover for white supremacist rallies.

Nobody came out to support free speech, since free speech is not under attack at this country. People came out to defend white supremacists about to spout genocide and have no protesters call them on it for being abhorrent human beings.

If you want to push lies about who started what, then you'll find your audience in places receptive to white supremacy and no where else.
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Man, you need to get out of your bubble. I saw what happened. Did you watch a stream from someone who was actually in the thick of it? Antifa was lobbing M80s into groups of people. That is a fact. They are incredibly intimidating and always start shit. Why do you think they cover their faces? It's so that when they commit crimes they can't be identified. This is black bloc 101 shit, man. I don't give two fucks what the ideology of the other side is. This type of authoritarian political violence is not okay.
 
Emerson said:
That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.
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Yeah. I think it's easy to assume that everybody who supports people who are against your interests hates you and people like you. And in many cases you'd be right. But in many cases these people don't hate black people. They just don't give a shit about them one way or the other. Many times it is a "fuck you, got mine" attitude. And this is problematic and something that needs to be dealt with, but it doesn't necessarily imply straight up malice
 
If you support a candidate who leans on white supremacy to get elected, you by definition supported white supremacy. It doesn't matter to minorities what's in your heart of hearts at that point because the end result between the ignorant and the malicious is the same when they're getting deported, harassed by police, or discriminated against in places of service.

If Trump supporters and their sympathizers could take responsibility for the wholesale effect of their votes, we could get somewhere.
 
Emerson said:
That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. Go have a look at the post that got me banned a couple weeks ago if you don't believe it. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.
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I don't think that people who are in it so far as to show up at rallies throwing the Nazi hand and punching people are the ones we should be trying to reason with. Hell even just showing up at rallies and seeing that happen and not being like 'Yeah, this is...wow' means you support white fascism in some way.

Which is what this thread is about.
 
Emerson said:
That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. Go have a look at the post that got me banned a couple weeks ago if you don't believe it. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.
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It's beyond even that. You can't even disagree with someone without being labeled a Trump supporter.
 
If the supposed "economical" Trump supporters had no idea that a rally of white supremacy wasnt just an ordinary political rally, they sure as shit should have know it by the time the Nazi salutes and swatsikas started getting rolled out.

Media said:
I don't think that people who are in it so far as to show up at rallies throwing the Nazi hand and punching people are the ones we should be trying to reason with. Hell even just showing up at rallies and seeing that happen and not being like 'Yeah, this is...wow' means you support white fascism in some way.

Which is what this thread is about.
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Its hilarious that we need to break down every thread like this in order for feelings not to get hurt.

Literally every thread gets derailed by "Not-all-Trump-supporters" and "violence isnt the answer".
 
Media said:
I don't think that people who are in it so far as to show up at rallies throwing the Nazi hand and punching people are the ones we should be trying to reason with. He'll even just showing up at rallies and seeing that happen and not being like 'Yeah, this is...wow' means you support white fascism in some way.

Which is what this thread is about.
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Yes but, as always, the discussion is going to broaden to include the bigger issues. Which it immediately did, and people inside the thread are straight away accusing others of being white supremacists.

That's what I'm responding to.
 
Nepenthe said:
If you support a candidate who leans on white supremacy to get elected, you by definition supported white supremacy. It doesn't matter to minorities what's in your heart of hearts at that point because the end result between the ignorant and the malicious is the same when they're getting deported, harassed by police, or discriminated against in places of service.

If Trump supporters and their sympathizers could take responsibility for the wholesale effect of their votes, we could get somewhere.
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I get this. But while the results may be the same, the distinction is important because one group we can actually work with and try to get them to understand what they did and why it was wrong, and one group can't. And lumping them all together just makes it harder to reach the people who are just ignorant and drives them towards the other group.
 
Emerson said:
Yes but, as always, the discussion is going to broaden to include the bigger issues. Which it immediately did, and people inside the thread are straight away accusing others of being white supremacists.

That's what I'm responding to.
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You're not responding to anything but your own feelings.

People who voted for =//= people who actively support trump enough to be a part of a white supremacist rally.
 
Emerson said:
Yes but, as always, the discussion is going to broaden to include the bigger issues. Which it immediately did, and people inside the thread are straight away accusing others of being white supremacists.

That's what I'm responding to.
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I have beloved family who voted Trump because of tribalism and fake news. I am not going to go around punching them.in the face. I thought we were talking about the Nazis who've literally taken over the Republican party and conned millions into voting for them.
 
Aaronrules380 said:
I get this. But while the results may be the same, the distinction is important because one group we can actually work with and try to get them to understand what they did and why it was wrong, and one group can't. And lumping them all together just makes it harder to reach the people who are just ignorant and drives them towards the other group.
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Do you think people weren't also outlining all of the reasons- social, economical, and moral- why voting for Trump was a bad idea during that slog of a campaign cycle, and that we simply weren't listened to?
 
Emerson said:
That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. Go have a look at the post that got me banned a couple weeks ago if you don't believe it. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.
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I mean, make no mistake these people are some of the worst when it comes to idiocy and incitement but if you go out of your way to read what people on the other side of the political spectrum are saying it's basically pointing to the "illiberal progressive" who labels everyone who doesn't buy into their schema as a white supremacist or fascist as a motivating force and it isn't only on the fringe. I don't see how it's not self defeating.
 
Media said:
I have beloved family who voted Trump because of tribalism and fake news. I am not going to go around punching them.in the face. I thought we were talking about the Nazis who've literally taken over the Republican party and conned millions into voting for them.
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Bullshit, they weren't taken over, their agendas line right up and have since the southern strategy.
 
fantomena said:
Im trying to not use violence against those who do not share my values. Ive never liked violence. I think even if I was in a sitation where I got robbed, I take the robbers gun I would have problem just shooting the robber in the knee.

Even if I wanted to punch a nazi in the face very badly, I would have big problems doing it.
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Are you the same person that said that the Nazi problem in Germany would have been solved by dropping peace leaflets and marching to Berlin unarmed to hug Hitler?
 
Link said:
Oh, are we just shouting completely untrue bullshit now?
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Uh hello? I was called a white supremacist in this very thread for having the gall to say that antifa was starting shit.

This kind of name calling and casting people who you disagree with as part of the 'other' is madness.

Actually, you basically called me a Nazi supporter because I don't agree with violence towards them!
 
Slayven said:
Bullshit, they weren't taken over, their agendas line right up and have since the southern strategy.
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I thought the southern strategy WAS about whipping people into a racist fervour in order to take over power.

It didn't work as well as they hoped until the internet came along and Nazis rose to power because of Briebart and Stormfront and 4chan.
 
Media said:
I thought the southern strategy WAS about whipping people into a racist fervour in order to take over power.

It didn't work as well as they hoped until the internet came along and Nazis rose to power because of Briebart and Stormfront and 4chan.
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Sweet summer child.

War on drugs? Welfare Queens?

They just don't have to dog whistle anymore
 
Tagyhag said:
Are you the same person that said that the Nazi problem in Germany would have been solved by dropping peace leaflets and marching to Berlin unarmed to hug Hitler?
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Nazi Germany was a different situation and ultimately was stopped by violence from the outside, not the inside. And as bad as Trump and the republican establishment are, they don't hold the power or sway that Hitler did back in the day. Violence is an extreme measure, and also one that can easily backfire and exacerbate the problem
 
Nepenthe said:
You were called that because you defended the Nazis as a minority of people messing up a free speech campaign, instead of the truth that the Nazis were the other side.
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Thinking that the majority of that side are Nazis is hysteria. Plain and simple. But lets say they WERE actual neo Nazis. Guess what? They still deserve the right to free speech. The fucking ACLU agrees with me here for Christ's sake.
 
Scrooged said:
Uh hello? I was called a white supremacist in this very thread for having the gall to say that antifa was starting shit.

This kind of name calling and casting people who you disagree with as part of the 'other' is madness.

Actually, you basically called me a Nazi supporter because I don't agree with violence towards them!
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you cam when with "actually it is about ethics in free speech". Don't be mad if people see through shit
 
Is that really a police quote? Jesus Christ. Trump police scare me. Just abusing power. And I have no doubt Trump supporters are the one causing violence. I mean, the man himself said at rallies he wishes he could punch people in the face and that they would leave out on stretchers like the good old days.
 
Scrooged said:
Uh hello? I was called a white supremacist in this very thread for having the gall to say that antifa was starting shit.

This kind of name calling and casting people who you disagree with as part of the 'other' is madness.

Actually, you basically called me a Nazi supporter because I don't agree with violence towards them!
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Considering how often you run to look down on protesters and protect the position racists in threads like these I don't think you should be surprised that someone called you that. At the very least that makes you complacent with white supremacy and racism. But in the end how different are those positions really?
 
Scrooged said:
Thinking that the majority of that side are Nazis is hysteria. Plain and simple. But lets say they WERE actual neo Nazis. Guess what? They still deserve the right to free speech. The fucking ACLU agrees with me here for Christ's sake.
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Invoking the ACLU to defend Nazism woo lord 😂😂😂
 
Slayven said:
Sweet summer child.

War on drugs? Welfare Queens?

They just don't have to dog whistle anymore
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I know all that. I'm sorry I said it wrong. It just like it's worse now with Trump and literal Nazis in power. I'll shit up and leave the thread.
 
Scrooged said:
Don't put quotes around something I never said. What the fuck.
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Scrooged said:
Yeah, sure. I watched a livestream from most of the event and it was antifa who had knives and threw over 2 dozen M80s into crowds of people. It was antifa who were hostile to the media. There were brawls started by both sides because tensions were so high. And yes, there were a small number of actual white nationalists there but the vast majority were there for supporting free speech.

The whole thing was a shit show really. The extreme right and the extreme left made a fool of themselves as usual.
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hm.gif
 
Scrooged said:
Uh hello? I was called a white supremacist in this very thread for having the gall to say that antifa was starting shit.

This kind of name calling and casting people who you disagree with as part of the 'other' is madness.

Actually, you basically called me a Nazi supporter because I don't agree with violence towards them!
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Don't say dumb shot like most of these people who were on the pro White terrorist side were supporting free speech.
 
Poor GRIMES said:
Invoking the ACLU to defend Nazism woo lord 😂😂😂
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https://www.aclu.org/other/hate-speech-campus

Q: I just can't understand why the ACLU defends free speech for racists, sexists, homophobes and other bigots. Why tolerate the promotion of intolerance?

A: Free speech rights are indivisible. Restricting the speech of one group or individual jeopardizes everyone's rights because the same laws or regulations used to silence bigots can be used to silence you. Conversely, laws that defend free speech for bigots can be used to defend the rights of civil rights workers, anti-war protesters, lesbian and gay activists and others fighting for justice. For example, in the 1949 case of Terminiello v. Chicago, the ACLU successfully defended an ex-Catholic priest who had delivered a racist and anti-semitic speech. The precedent set in that case became the basis for the ACLU's successful defense of civil rights demonstrators in the 1960s and '70s.
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Scrooged said:
Thinking that the majority of that side are Nazis is hysteria. Plain and simple. But lets say they WERE actual neo Nazis. Guess what? They still deserve the right to free speech. The fucking ACLU agrees with me here for Christ's sake.
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no they do not. and the alcu is wrong in this regard.
 
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