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[Nepenthe]

Don't put quotes around something I never said. What the fuck.

You literally said the event was to protest free speech (whatever the fuck that means) and that the antifa ruined it because of the minority of Nazis present in the initial campaign.

Your whole deal has been to downplay Nazism then get mad when people accuse you of downplaying Nazism.

 

[Slayven]

https://www.aclu.org/other/hate-speech-campus

Now you are delivering a defense of your defense of nazis, own it dude. At least be honest

How can you have a conversation without good faith?

 

[Sou Da]

These guys really think they are fighting a war from behind their keyboards.

Pretty ironic too, they later called everyone here a keyboard warrior and some other empty insults as well labeling Tyler a molester and some other bullshit.

I had my fill though, just gonna let whomsoever is watching stew in their shit over this post.

 

[ThisGuy]

Racism and bigotry is not a political view

I've seen this said before. I don't understand how you can say that.

po·lit·i·cal
pəˈlidək(&#601l/

relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.

Bigotry is an idea, and racists like Republicans use strategies to enforce that idea.

I'm not arguing this speech or idea should be protected. Honestly the older I get the less I stand behind all free speech. We got to be responsible.

But what do you mean when you say its not a political view, or how do you argue that?

 

[Slayven]

I've seen this said before. I don't understand how you can say that.

po·lit·i·cal
pəˈlidək(&#601l/

relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.

Bigotry is an idea, and racists like Republicans use strategies to enforce that idea.

I'm not arguing this speech or idea should be protected. Honestly the older I get the less I stand behind all free speech. We got to be responsible.

But what do you mean when you say its not a political view, or how do you argue that?

My humanity is not up for debate or bargaining . Anyone that think that can kiss my ass

 

[Gordon Shumway]

We need an ACLU card..

 

[nitekrawlwer]

https://www.aclu.org/other/hate-speech-campus

The people protesting are not the US government so you can stop concern trolling. They are getting freedom of speech. Just not the freedom from consequences of that speech that you would like them to have.

Does your innate sense of nuance not get the nuance of the 1st amendment?

 

[Nepenthe]

But what do you mean when you say its not a political view, or how do you argue that?

We mean it's not a debatable difference in opinion. It's factually and ethically wrong. Presenting it as a "political view" does nothing but soften its edge for white America, because everyone has political views and thus can relate to the idea that a "political view" has merit.

 

[theWB27]

I've seen this said before. I don't understand how you can say that.

po·lit·i·cal
pəˈlidək(&#601l/

relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.

Bigotry is an idea, and racists like Republicans use strategies to enforce that idea.

I'm not arguing this speech or idea should be protected. Honestly the older I get the less I stand behind all free speech. We got to be responsible.

But what do you mean when you say its not a political view, or how do you argue that?

Can you ask yourself why a racist politician would want their hate filled views to be considered as political?

 

[Scrooged]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

 

[Nepenthe]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

Quoting a person is not putting them in a box. Take the L and move on.

 

[Derwind]

Now you are delivering a defense of your defense of nazis, own it dude. At least be honest

The dude favours hate speech over the opposition of white supremacy.

There's no point carrying a conversation with someone that offers no solutions beyond tolerating nazis.

 

[theWB27]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

Or you can own up to what you're saying. You believe racism deserves a platform.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Fuck nazis and their free speech

 

[SegaShack]

That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. Go have a look at the post that got me banned a couple weeks ago if you don't believe it. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Many posters on neogaf have in many ways become so slanted one way that if someone doesnt HATE Donald Trump they are a racist, bigot, eresponsible for the end of the world, etc. Like don't get me wrong, some of his supporters are, but its vey extreme to jump to conclusions saying they all are. I wish both sides of the spectrum could be debated here. More often than not though, simply agreeing with anything Trump does gets a reply of "Get The Fuck Outta Here".

 

[Slayven]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

But you didn't disprove my statement. Where is the conversation brah? I am reaching across the otherside. Defend your defense of nazis

 

[Stinkles]

Hey if I posted exclusively in defense of the side that contained let's say, a cadre of racists, and spent vast energies on coming up with ways to explain that the side that contained a cadre of actual skinheads and Nazis, and had multiple people, including middle aged people, doing the Nazi salute, but they themselves, for some reason were neither nazis nor racists, but anyway, back to how if I spent my entire morning defending that superset, and stating baseless, unproven assumptions of the nazi or rather, lack of nazi and racist content, what would that make me?

 

[Slayven]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Many posters on neogaf have in many ways become so slanted one way that if someone doesnt HATE Donald Trump they are a racist, bigot, eresponsible for the end of the world, etc. Like don't get me wrong, some of his supporters are, but its vey extreme to jump to conclusions saying they all are. I wish both sides of the spectrum could be debated here. More often than not though, simply agreeing with anything Trump does gets a reply of "Get The Fuck Outta Here".

What rational stanch does Trump have? What are his policies, and what has he enacted in his 100 plus days that need defending?

Since in office all he has done is strip rights for the only reason to spite Obama. What good person can defend that?

 

[Nepenthe]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Many posters on neogaf have in many ways become so slanted one way that if someone doesnt HATE Donald Trump they are a racist, bigot, eresponsible for the end of the world, etc. Like don't get me wrong, some of his supporters are, but its vey extreme to jump to conclusions saying they all are. I wish both sides of the spectrum could be debated here. More often than not though, simply agreeing with anything Trump does gets a reply of "Get The Fuck Outta Here".

If you support a white supremacist campaign, you supported white supremacy, even if you yourself aren't a conscious white supremacist.

The Trump voters this simple matter of fact bothers shouldn't have voted for Trump in the first place.

 

[Jakten]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

You show up in these threads relentlessly defending racists man, I can literally predict what threads you show up in and what you'll probably say it happens so often. You shove your self into that box.

 

[bob_arctor]

Hey if I posted exclusively in defense of the side that contained let's say, a cadre of racists, and spent vast energies on coming up with ways to explain that the side that contained a cadre of actual skinheads and Nazis, and had multiple people, including middle aged people, doing the Nazi salute, but they themselves, for some reason were neither nazis nor racists, but anyway, back to how if I spent my entire morning defending that superset, and stating baseless, unproven assumptions of the nazi or rather, lack of nazi and racist content, what would that make me?

Scrooged?

 

[Derwind]

I've seen this said before. I don't understand how you can say that.

po·lit·i·cal
pəˈlidək(&#601l/

relating to the government or the public affairs of a country.

relating to the ideas or strategies of a particular party or group in politics.

Bigotry is an idea, and racists like Republicans use strategies to enforce that idea.

I'm not arguing this speech or idea should be protected. Honestly the older I get the less I stand behind all free speech. We got to be responsible.

But what do you mean when you say its not a political view, or how do you argue that?

Because people use the colour of my skin as a political weapon, doesnt mean that its valid or should be considered valid.

Part of the reason their are people of all backgrounds protesting white supremacy is because that shit shouldn't be given political legitimacy.

It's something that should be considered invalid or political suicide to even tip toe that line.

 

[Amir0x]

My disagreement stems from the idea that non-violent actions are a single method. There are countless (infinite even) ways to try and attain a solution without resorting to violence. And I recognize there are times when violence is the best solution (Apartheid South Africa for instance), but I think there needs to be logic behind the move as well. How do you expect violence to help in a situation is important in my mind because it is an extreme measure.

Sure, of course. It's better if there is a method to the madness. But minorities have been attempting to change this shit for three hundred years and they're still dealing with it. They've tried the pure politics route, they've tried the protests, they've tried riots. They've tried everything. And the problem persists, and now with Trump in power it is getting exponentially worse.

Are you really surprised that now the solution is "you know what? I'm not going to allow that person to advocate for my death without my fist going through his mouth."

Let's even agree that violence may not be the "solution" in this case. Who cares? Maybe some people just need the release of punching a literal Nazi in the face when they advocate for genocide. Maybe that is worth it in of itself, when this country is currently what it is. Why complain about that when you can come into this thread and focus on how to stop white supremacists from pushing their ideology?

If you disagree with the violence here, then discuss proactive measures you'd take to try to stop this. That's far more constructive than scolding people who have had enough after decades of not being listened to.

Uh hello? I was called a white supremacist in this very thread for having the gall to say that antifa was starting shit.

This kind of name calling and casting people who you disagree with as part of the 'other' is madness.

Actually, you basically called me a Nazi supporter because I don't agree with violence towards them!

Please, you practically went down the alt-right checklist in order to support your nonsense.

+ I watched the entire thing and it was the Antifa antagonizers who started this!
+ "Actually it's not about white supremacy, it's about free speech in politics..." (Flashback "It's about ethics in videogame journalism.")
+ Both sides are the same, extreme left and extreme right! Herpity Derpity!
+ They're just trying to have an open space to discuss their white genocidal political views (oh wait we're supposed to pretend it's not white genocide)
+ Oh yeah, well you're just in a bubble! (Surprised you just didn't say I should start reading Breitbart instead of #FakeNews like CNN and PBS)

I can go on and on.

You do the same shit they do to try to obfuscate your actual agenda. You pretend you dislike both sides, and yet you apparently were interested enough to watch this entire rally - which clearly you don't support, CLEARLY - to identify all the Antifa people throwing M80s into the crowd.

You deny the fact that for a full month these alt right douchebags were using this fake "free speech" cover to get revenge on what happened to Milo's speech months ago, intentionally advocating that people dress up as Antifa Black Bloc to try to pretend they were inciting shit:

I can show you entire threads from the dark side of the internet where these people gathered, planned and executed this shit, and are now celebrating the same thing.

And you're coming in here with the gall to act all indignant that people don't see through your transparent bullshit?

 

[EatinOlives]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

Just curious, how much time have you spent doing this in alt-right forums? Sure you're talking to "both sides" about this, right?

 

[AYF 001]

I know nuance is a rare commodity these days. It's much easier to demonize and shove people into boxes of what you want them to be in order to make them easier to deal with.

Well, since you seem to be so concerned about "both sides" being extreme, I hope you're taking the same amount of time you spend here to go on pro-trump sites and tell oblivious moderates what they're enabling, and reminding white supremacists that minorities aren't all out to get them and how genocide is wrong.

 

[Heroman]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Many posters on neogaf have in many ways become so slanted one way that if someone doesnt HATE Donald Trump they are a racist, bigot, eresponsible for the end of the world, etc. Like don't get me wrong, some of his supporters are, but its vey extreme to jump to conclusions saying they all are. I wish both sides of the spectrum could be debated here. More often than not though, simply agreeing with anything Trump does gets a reply of "Get The Fuck Outta Here".

Let do it then , what do you want to debate?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

god this pisses me off so much. it's so fucking lazy

i get that nazi's are uncreative and suck at finding symbols that aren't the swatstica but they co-opted this in the most lazy way imaginable.

 

[theCalamity]

The question shouldn't be whether or not someone is a racist or white supremacist, it should be whether someone is advancing the cause of white supremacy either intentionally or through ignorance.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I support the right of anyone to say anything. I think freedom of speech is essential to a functioning democracy. Once you start limiting free speech, how long will it be before your ideological opposites limit your own right to speak?

I also believe in the consequences of that freedom, which sometimes includes Nazis getting punched in the face.

So yes, let the bigots speak openly. It lets the rest of us know who to punch.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Yeah, sure. I watched a livestream from most of the event and it was antifa who had knives and threw over 2 dozen M80s into crowds of people. It was antifa who were hostile to the media. There were brawls started by both sides because tensions were so high. And yes, there were a small number of actual white nationalists there but the vast majority were there for supporting free speech.

The whole thing was a shit show really. The extreme right and the extreme left made a fool of themselves as usual.

Nobody believes your lies.

 

[Emerson]

The question shouldn't be whether or not someone is a racist or white supremacist, it should be whether someone is advancing the cause of white supremacy either intentionally or through ignorance.

I think this may be fair, but the logical question that follows is:

Should people who are advancing the cause of white supremacy intentionally and those advancing it through ignorance be addressed the same way?

Is one of these groups reachable by reason?

 

[ThisGuy]

Can you ask yourself why a racist politician would want their hate filled views to be considered as political?

I see, to enable policy. Strip the concept of it being political, strip the ability to do so. Right?

My humanity is not up for debate or bargaining . Anyone that think that can kiss my ass

I agree, I just wanted a little insight.

We mean it's not a debatable difference in opinion. It's factually and ethically wrong. Presenting it as a "political view" does nothing but soften its edge for white America, because everyone has political views and thus can relate to the idea that a "political view" has merit.

Alright, I understand what is meant by saying that now. Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

These are the folks you're dealing with.

So which mod is assigned to be my jewish master btw?

Oh snap, they are on to you! Don't post here, RUN!
Ahik-ahik* brother


*

Spoiler

I can't think of any dumb cult-ish sounding chant, hope that doesn't actually mean something

 

[Slayven]

Sure, of course. It's better if there is a method to the madness. But minorities have been attempting to change this shit for three hundred years and they're still dealing with it. They've tried the pure politics route, they've tried the protests, they've tried riots. They've tried everything. And the problem persists, and now with Trump in power it is getting exponentially worse.

Are you really surprised that now the solution is "you know what? I'm not going to allow that person to advocate for my death without my fist going through his mouth."

Let's even agree that violence may not be the "solution" in this case. Who cares? Maybe some people just need the release of punching a literal Nazi in the face when they advocate for genocide. Maybe that is worth it in of itself, when this country is currently what it is. Why complain about that when you can come into this thread and focus on how to stop white supremacists from pushing their ideology?

If you disagree with the violence here, then discuss proactive measures you'd take to try to stop this. That's far more constructive than scolding people who have had enough after decades of not being listened to.



Please, you practically went down the alt-right checklist in order to support your nonsense.

+ I watched the entire thing and it was the Antifa antagonizers who started this!
+ "Actually it's not about white supremacy, it's about free speech in politics..." (Flashback "It's about ethics in videogame journalism.")
+ Both sides are the same, extreme left and extreme right! Herpity Derpity!
+ They're just trying to have an open space to discuss their white genocidal political views (oh wait we're supposed to pretend it's not white genocide)
+ Oh yeah, well you're just in a bubble! (Surprised you just didn't say I should start reading Breitbart instead of #FakeNews like CNN and PBS)

I can go on and on.

You do the same shit they do to try to obfuscate your actual agenda. You pretend you dislike both sides, and yet you apparently were interested enough to watch this entire rally - which clearly you don't support, CLEARLY - to identify all the Antifa people throwing M80s into the crowd.

You deny the fact that for a full month these alt right douchebags were using this fake "free speech" cover to get revenge on what happened to Milo's speech months ago, intentionally advocating that people dress up as Antifa Black Bloc to try to pretend they were inciting shit:



I can show you entire threads from the dark side of the internet where these people gathered, planned and executed this shit, and are now celebrating the same thing.

And you're coming in here with the gall to act all indignant that people don't see through your transparent bullshit?

But Amir0x it's about ethics in free speech, really almost a celebration

 

[theCalamity]

I think this may be fair, but the logical question that follows is:

Should people who are advancing the cause of white supremacy intentionally and those advancing it through ignorance be addressed the same way?

Is one of these groups reachable by reason?

The ones through ignorance can be reasoned of course. The intentional ones can't be reasoned with because the only way to make them happy is for minorities to die.

BTW, I'm getting all of this from this guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVMvZFa1Cf4

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Nazi Germany was a different situation and ultimately was stopped by violence from the outside, not the inside. And as bad as Trump and the republican establishment are, they don't hold the power or sway that Hitler did back in the day. Violence is an extreme measure, and also one that can easily backfire and exacerbate the problem

So I, as a non american, could punch the american neo-nazis and that would be fine then? Or what are you trying to say here?
Are people only allowed to resort to violence once we've reached full-hitler mode?

 

[UncleSporky]

Well, since you seem to be so concerned about "both sides" being extreme, I hope you're taking the same amount of time you spend here to go on pro-trump sites and tell oblivious moderates what they're enabling, and reminding white supremacists that minorities aren't all out to get them and how genocide is wrong.

This is actually something I think about a lot when I see people accused of being alt right, Nazis, or white supremacists here, for posts that seem moderate or against violence.

If they are saying anything against the other side to their faces, no one here is going to see it, because we don't hang out in those circles. Or if those people aren't saying anything against the other side to their faces, it's just as likely that they don't because they don't hang out in those circles. I can't imagine trying to wade into a chan site or trump site or wherever they gather, only to risk being identified as an associate of theirs, when you're really trying to change minds.

You work to change minds toward the ideologies you want to see thrive among the communities you can actually stomach being a part of. You're much more likely to call out your friends on bullshit, rather than marching into the middle of your enemies.

The fact that they're here at all and not already banned means they're already on your side, they just don't want to see violence, or whatever they're arguing against. They don't have to engage in some sort of test of how much they've posted in reprehensible forums trying to change minds there. You work with what you know.

 

[UncleSporky]

god this pisses me off so much. it's so fucking lazy

i get that nazi's are uncreative and suck at finding symbols that aren't the swatstica but they co-opted this in the most lazy way imaginable.

The worst part is that it looks like they took the guy from the cover of Myst.

 

[HStallion]

I couldn't agree more with this post. Many posters on neogaf have in many ways become so slanted one way that if someone doesnt HATE Donald Trump they are a racist, bigot, eresponsible for the end of the world, etc. Like don't get me wrong, some of his supporters are, but its vey extreme to jump to conclusions saying they all are. I wish both sides of the spectrum could be debated here. More often than not though, simply agreeing with anything Trump does gets a reply of "Get The Fuck Outta Here".

Because they are agreeing with a disgusting pig of a man doing his hardest to fuck over as many people as possible to become popular. Don't expect people to not consider you suspect when he has done absolutely nothing to garner any good faith with anyone that doesn't have some hate and fear in their heart driving their political views and actions

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Dp

 

[theWB27]

I see, to enable policy. Strip the concept of it being political, strip the ability to do so. Right?


I agree, I just wanted a little insight.


Alright, I understand what is meant by saying that now. Thanks for clearing it up.

So many racists need a symbol to hide behind instead of coming forth with what they believe. To try and make their hate more valid.

 

[Lil'DigiOp]

Shit ton of white people scrapping while throwing fire works

Cops : Fuck It.


Shit ton of Black people marching in streets with signs

Cops: Riot Gear, Armoured Tanks, Tactical Units, Pepper Spray




Could be any more fucking blatant.

 

[Aaronrules380]

So I, as a non american, could punch the american neo-nazis and that would be fine then? Or what are you trying to say here?
Are people only allowed to resort to violence once we've reached full-hitler mode?

I'm trying to say that how violence can be used to successfully solve problems is very situational. I think if the Jews under Hitler had resorted to wide scale retaliation and violence, it would've been more likely to hasten the progress of the holocaust rather than help, because Jews were hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned. And yes, I think violence is more acceptable as a short term measure once the situation becomes increasingly extreme. Violence can be a powerful tool, but it's also incredibly easy for it to backfire and an extreme measure that we should be careful about employing.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I'm trying to say that how violence can be used to successfully solve problems is very situational. I think if the Jews under Hitler had resorted to wide scale retaliation and violence, it would've been more likely to hasten the progress of the holocaust rather than help, because Jews were hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned. And yes, I think violence is more acceptable as a short term measure once the situation becomes increasingly extreme. Violence can be a powerful tool, but it's also incredibly easy for it to backfire and an extreme measure that we should be careful about employing.

You don't see the connection here? No? Not at all? You don't see a problem here?

Anyway, nobody here is saying "punch every republican voter in the face!". This is a subset of extremists. You won't be able to talk to somebody who uses the Hitler salute.

 

[Amir0x]

But Amir0x it's about ethics in free speech, really almost a celebration

I know if we only let them march in peace and speak about eradicating the black race without bothering them they would have gone away quietly into the night

 

[LookAtMeGo]

There should be an international "punch a nazi" day.

 

[UncleSporky]

What? Lol, no. People like scrooged who have not been banned are not on our side. They're just careful enough to not get themselves banned as they defend Nazis.

Regardless, I don't think someone who claims to want less violence and posts exclusively about it on a liberal site has any duty to go make the same posts on a conservative site. They don't go there for the same reasons you don't, and even if they did you wouldn't see it. You're more likely to call friends on harmful beliefs and actions than wade into the middle of your enemies and do the same.

 

[MUnited83]

That's the point this forum has gotten to. As far as many are concerned if you support Trump you are by definition a white supremacist.

It's not a helpful mindset to have. Yes, there is a real white supremacist or, more commonly, white nationalist wing supporting him. Those people are not even worth engaging with. There are also just a lot of idiots who probably could be reasoned with in the right way.

If you seriously think that every single one of the millions who voted for him are irredeemable racists then I don't know why you would bother to continue trying. That reality would be so hopeless you might as well just go live in the fucking forest or something. It is obviously not true.

I fucking hate Trump, before any of you try to misconstrue my position. Go have a look at the post that got me banned a couple weeks ago if you don't believe it. But people are not approaching any of this rationally, and this site is becoming unpleasant to read even when you're on the right side.

A Trump support is either a white supremacist, or completely fucking okay with white supremacy, racism, xenophobia, mysogny, etc.
Both cases are complete fucking pieces of shit that should be called out accordingly.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Sad to see. I would personally try to go over and talk to them. If you disagree, deal with it.

You really, honestly think that would work?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

There should be an international "punch a nazi" day.

Well today is the 72 anniversary of the red army marching into Berlin so today would be a good day for that.