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[1-D_FTW]

Yeah, probably would be difficult. You'd either have to set a minimum score (say 5 points) before they'd qualify as a medic class for auto-balancing (to avoid exploiters), or set limits on the class. Each team is allowed 1 medic. If both teams have one medic, then each team is allowed the option of a second medic, etc. Keep it a dynamic limit that forces the other team to never have more than a one medic advantage. If a medic drops or changes class, the other team is forced to adjust when one of their medics dies.

I know that's against the spirit of the game, but the game would be pretty much perfect with no medics. (Sure it's better when both teams have 2 or 3 medics), but with no medics you'd have great balance. No matter how a team stacked a class, you could easily counter it. The only counter for medics, is for your team to have medics. And since most people find it boring to play, teams often go medicless. Even when the other team has 3 on defense and you're getting your ass kicked on offense with 0.

 

[Won]

Or you just switch to medic, becuase medic is actual a fun class, as long as you don't waste a minute of your life to charge up an uber behind a closed door.

 

[Davidion]

Yeah, probably would be difficult. You'd either have to set a minimum score (say 5 points) before they'd qualify as a medic class for auto-balancing (to avoid exploiters), or set limits on the class. Each team is allowed 1 medic. If both teams have one medic, then each team is allowed the option of a second medic, etc. Keep it a dynamic limit that forces the other team to never have more than a one medic advantage. If a medic drops or changes class, the other team is forced to adjust when one of their medics dies.

I know that's against the spirit of the game, but the game would be pretty much perfect with no medics. (Sure it's better when both teams have 2 or 3 medics), but with no medics you'd have great balance. No matter how a team stacked a class, you could easily counter it. The only counter for medics, is for your team to have medics. And since most people find it boring to play, teams often go medicless. Even when the other team has 3 on defense and you're getting your ass kicked on offense with 0.

I disagree, medics are a key part of the equation. I think the game would actually be a lot duller without them.

Honestly, if a team doesn't have medics, that's the team/members' fault, though I do think that they can offer some more incentives to play the class. The game is specifically designed and balanced so that it can't be played like a lot of other FPS's out there. If everyone and their mothers play it like counterstrike or UT or something, then that's their problem. You can't always try to force game balance between teams that are almost always formed on the fly.

Speaking of balance. I wonder if the game can kick up the crit percentage for the team with less points or the worse K/D ratio or something along those lines. Maybe shorter spawn times? Of course those benefits bring with them their own balance problems but I think it could be a start.

I think a weapon-free run option or a health cap increase when not healing could do wonders for encouraging medic play.

 

[PillowKnight]

I know that's against the spirit of the game, but the game would be pretty much perfect with no medics. (Sure it's better when both teams have 2 or 3 medics), but with no medics you'd have great balance. No matter how a team stacked a class, you could easily counter it. The only counter for medics, is for your team to have medics. And since most people find it boring to play, teams often go medicless. Even when the other team has 3 on defense and you're getting your ass kicked on offense with 0.

Oh, cmon now, there are plenty of counters to medics. Scouts/Spy/Snipers

 

[Davidion]

Oh, cmon now, there are plenty of counters to medics. Scouts/Spy/Snipers

Also, Soldiers/Heavies/Demos/Engineers. :lol

 

[Teknopathetic]

"Speaking of balance. I wonder if the game can kick up the crit percentage for the team with less points or the worse K/D ratio or something along those lines. Maybe shorter spawn times? Of course those benefits bring with them their own balance problems but I think it could be a start."


This is against the idea that Valve had. They've always designed it so that the team losing will eventually lose. They've always wanted the game to snowball into a loss, that's why the spawn timers on maps are the way they are.


And nothing's more obnoxious than hearing someone say "We need [x] Class" but won't change to it themselves. If you won't change to it, what makes you think I will?

 

[Cheeto]

Oh, cmon now, there are plenty of counters to medics. Scouts/Spy/Snipers

Also, Soldiers/Heavies/Demos/Engineers. :lol

Funny you guys leave out the Pyro.

 

[Davidion]

Funny you guys leave out the Pyro.

That was an honest brain fart. :lol

 

[No_Style]

It's been awhile since I played. I believe the last time was with the new map. Good to see people are still playing. Unfortunately, SSBB is gobbling up the time these days.

 

[dionysus]

I've only been playing a week, but I think medics are the most noob friendly class. You can really make a difference for the team with very little skill involved. But you can make even larger contributions if you are good.

I am so glad I upgraded my PC last month. TF2 and Titan Quest are absorbing all my time.

 

[SexConker]

you can't auto balance the medics because people can switch classes whenever they want.

It would be too chaotic having to constantly switch teams.

Also sometimes defense doesnt require as many medics as offense but good placement of sticky bombs and turrents can send ubers flying into the sky and falling to their death.

I believe autobalance only picks dead players, right?
Scouts and Spies get autobalanced like crazy because they have a shorter life span.

 

[fallout]

Funny you guys leave out the Pyro.

EVREE-ONE! I AM ON FIYAAAHHH

 

[Twig]

I believe autobalance only picks dead players, right?
Scouts and Spies get autobalanced like crazy because they have a shorter life span.

I've only ever been autoswitched after dying (or a round ending), but it might choose who gets autoswitched BEFORE anyone dies.

 

[PillowKnight]

Also, Soldiers/Heavies/Demos/Engineers. :lol

Well, those aren't direct counters, all of those guys need to get past whoever is guarding the medic first. Which means all things equal any of those classes would lose vs X+Medic, whereas the three classes I mentioned don't need to be able to best whoever is guarding that medic.

 

[Davidion]

Well, those aren't direct counters, all of those guys need to get past whoever is guarding the medic first. Which means all things equal any of those classes would lose vs X+Medic, whereas the three classes I mentioned don't need to be able to best whoever is guarding that medic.

:lol Yeah I know what you mean, I was just kidding around. In common combat situations though, I think that the soldier has just as good of a chance of getting past the guard.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Oh, cmon now, there are plenty of counters to medics. Scouts/Spy/Snipers

I'm just fatigued from joining CircleX games and having no medics on offense and 3 medics on defense (particularly on Dustbowl, which is 50 percent of the matches.) It's why I end up playing more of FPSBanana, cause CircleX tends to be suffer a lot from this. But even FPSbanana suffers from this.

And, no, I'm not gonna medic so a bunch of slugs can continue to play support roles and score a point every 5 minutes. These people don't deserve it. And by support roles, I'm not talking vital support roles. I'm talking people who aren't scoring any points and doing god knows what.

It's just depressing when you have no medics and you're running into an offense-medic-medic-medic dude covering vital points.

I've also been playing a lot of 2fort lately (as a counter to the fact I'm sick of Dustbowl and went months without playing 2fort.) You can basically determine right there with a medic check whether you're actions are gonna make a difference. It's a huge grind through sentries and chokepoints if you don't have a medic. If the other team has a couple, your basically fighting for a draw. I don't suck. I'm a pretty good soldier. But a lone soldier isn't countering that.

"Speaking of balance. I wonder if the game can kick up the crit percentage for the team with less points or the worse K/D ratio or something along those lines. Maybe shorter spawn times? Of course those benefits bring with them their own balance problems but I think it could be a start."


This is against the idea that Valve had. They've always designed it so that the team losing will eventually lose. They've always wanted the game to snowball into a loss, that's why the spawn timers on maps are the way they are.


And nothing's more obnoxious than hearing someone say "We need [x] Class" but won't change to it themselves. If you won't change to it, what makes you think I will?

I've never once requested someone to switch to medic. I've been at the top of the scoreboard and had someone with 4 points angrily request people switch to medic, but I've never asked myself. I simply play long enough to decide whether victory is possible, and if it's a constant meatgrinder, I disconnect and find a different server.

EDIT: And that's my disappointment lately. I feel any situation can be won. There's no class structure that can't be countered and beaten. But there are situations where comparing medics tells you everything you need to know about who's gonna win. And since I'm not playing medic in its current form (I'll do it occasionally for gaffers), it's frustrating.

 

[PillowKnight]

:lol Yeah I know what you mean, I was just kidding around. In common combat situations though, I think that the soldier has just as good of a chance of getting past the guard.

I should've known .

I'm just fatigued from joining CircleX games and having no medics on offense and 3 medics on defense (particularly on Dustbowl, which is 50 percent of the matches.) It's why I end up playing more of FPSBanana, cause CircleX tends to be suffer a lot from this. But even FPSbanana suffers from this.

And, no, I'm not gonna medic so a bunch of slugs can continue to play support roles and score a point every 5 minutes. These people don't deserve it. And by support roles, I'm not talking vital support roles. I'm talking people who aren't scoring any points and doing god knows what.

It's just depressing when you have no medics and you're running into an offense-medic-medic-medic dude covering vital points.

I've also been playing a lot of 2fort lately (as a counter to the fact I'm sick of Dustbowl and went months without playing 2fort.) You can basically determine right there with a medic check whether you're actions are gonna make a difference. It's a huge grind through sentries and chokepoints if you don't have a medic. If the other team has a couple, you're basically fighting for a draw.

I've never once requested someone to switch to medic. I've been at the top of the scoreboard and had someone with 4 points angrily request people switch to medic, but I've never asked myself. I simply play long enough to decide whether victory is possible, and if it's a constant meatgrinder, I disconnect and find a different server.

EDIT: And that's my disappointment lately. I feel any situation can be won. There's no class structure that can't be countered and beaten. But there are situations where comparing medics tells you everything you need to know about who's gonna win. And since I'm not playing medic in its current form (I'll do it occasionally for gaffers), it's frustrating.

Right. IMO the teams which have no medics are inherently teams with other deficiencies.

If you're on a team where you don't want to play medic, it's usually a team that also lacks a good offensive. It's a chicken and egg situation, without good medics there is no good offense and without good offense there are no medics. I strongly believe that the reason you find playing medic frustrating is because the teams without medics are inherently bad teams(For clarification, I mean in terms of player skill, not class choice).

In other words, the symptoms are ; no medics, poor offense. The disease is team stacking.

 

[Hitokage]

And nothing's more obnoxious than hearing someone say "We need [x] Class" but won't change to it themselves. If you won't change to it, what makes you think I will?

When I say it, it's because I suck at [x] class, and me changing results in my team both not having my existing contribution and not getting the benefit of [x] class.

To be honest though, I can't remember the last time I actually asked for somebody to change classes unless I was pointing out that we have too many of one class.

 

[Firestorm]

Playing Medic when the team is composed for 2 scouts, 3 engineers, 3 snipers, and 2 spies is quite possibly the most frustrating experience.

 

[Davidion]

"Speaking of balance. I wonder if the game can kick up the crit percentage for the team with less points or the worse K/D ratio or something along those lines. Maybe shorter spawn times? Of course those benefits bring with them their own balance problems but I think it could be a start."


This is against the idea that Valve had. They've always designed it so that the team losing will eventually lose. They've always wanted the game to snowball into a loss, that's why the spawn timers on maps are the way they are.


And nothing's more obnoxious than hearing someone say "We need [x] Class" but won't change to it themselves. If you won't change to it, what makes you think I will?

I totally missed this. Damn you and your refusal to use the quote tag. :lol

I didn't know that about Valve's design philosophy, thanks for that. It makes all the sense in the world at the end of the day.

Selfish side rant: It's rather annoying when you've been a medic for a couple of games or for the better part of a prolonged map and want to play as another class, only to find that no one else is on medic duty. It's an irritating conundrum for someone trying to have more fun but don't want to dick the team.

 

[No Means Nomad]

Playing Medic when the team is composed for 2 scouts, 3 engineers, 3 snipers, and 2 spies is quite possibly the most frustrating experience.

An ubered spy is more dangerous than you think.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I got hit by a crit grenade (screen flash and I was chunking) when I was disconnected to auto-join CircleX. Got a half second into that load screen and I locked up so hard I had to unplug the computer. Wonder if that was a coincidence. Never locked so hard I couldn't even exit. Also never auto-disconnected just as I was being blown to pieces.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I should've known .



Right. IMO the teams which have no medics are inherently teams with other deficiencies.

If you're on a team where you don't want to play medic, it's usually a team that also lacks a good offensive. It's a chicken and egg situation, without good medics there is no good offense and without good offense there are no medics. I strongly believe that the reason you find playing medic frustrating is because the teams without medics are inherently bad teams(For clarification, I mean in terms of player skill, not class choice).

In other words, the symptoms are ; no medics, poor offense. The disease is team stacking.

Is also because on public servers, I'm constantly judging the player being mediced. If I can score more points solo than we can score together, my patience level lasts a minute or so.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth to the stacking thing. But there's been a lot of times I felt the teams were balanced enough and games would have been competitive if we'd only had a decent medic.

And there's no denying it's the least played class. That's why I really hope that medic tweak ups the fun level significantly so more people will enjoy playing it. Or at least that I enjoy playing it enough for the bad situations. And achievements are worthless to me, so it's gotta be something real.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

More servers need to limit their sniper slots also.

Why the hell do we need 3 snipers on offense for dustbowl on a 24 player server?!

I play medic the most, for some reason I actually enjoy going around saving other teammates lives when they are about to burn up or something and I like being able to perform the winning uber and such. The problem is I do not want to play medic all the time in fact I like playing other classes just as much. I like the challenge of trying to keep the entire team alive when we are on the front lines.

If medic had a good way to take out other players without unbalancing the game then I would play it more.

I would like if they added a secondary fire for the healing ray where it would decrease life gradually when used on an enemy.

Or maybe add a posion or hallucination grenade of some shit. The needle gun doesnt do it for mid range

 

[firex]

I just don't like how the needle gun works like a bow. I'd almost prefer it to be essentially a hitscan submachinegun. I think if it was like that I'd play medic constantly.

Otherwise when I play medic I just use the bonesaw when possible if I have to attack something.

 

[Jswanko]

Anyone have an idea when gold rush+medic achievements are being released? valve said by the end of February and there has been no word since.

 

[Icy]

Anyone have an idea when gold rush+medic achievements are being released? valve said by the end of February and there has been no word since.

this was brought up on a valve mailing list for server operators and basically in the end.. it isn't going to be this month. Anyone expecting this stuff before April needs to get on the valve time system.

 

[Jswanko]

this was brought up on a valve mailing list for server operators and basically in the end.. it isn't going to be this month. Anyone expecting this stuff before April needs to get on the valve time system.

ugh, guess i should have expected as much. Oh well, as always i am sure it will be amazing when it finally arrives.

 

[1-D_FTW]

They announced they scrapped that one medic thing they were considering. The delays are always about waiting until they strike the best balance. That's a good thing. It's just frustrating to have to wait for them. And the whole thing about class updates happening at a much quicker pace once the medic update is out? Please, Valve, who do you think we are? We know better. But we still love you.

 

[Javaman]

They should have just released the medic mod and left it as a server setting (optional).

 

[Jswanko]

They announced they scrapped that one medic thing they were considering. The delays are always about waiting until they strike the best balance. That's a good thing. It's just frustrating to have to wait for them. And the whole thing about class updates happening at a much quicker pace once the medic update is out? Please, Valve, who do you think we are? We know better. But we still love you.

Its going to be hard to balance the classes as each class gets the upgrade one by one.

 

[TemplaerDude]

i hate badlands. seriously. worst map ever. garbage. terrible. fucking terrible.

 

[fallengorn]

i hate badlands. seriously. worst map ever. garbage. terrible. fucking terrible.

I don't really mind Badlands. CTF Well is horrible.

 

[Davidion]

I don't really mind Badlands. CTF Well is horrible.

CTF Well is a decent map, but I think it's repulsive in the same way as 2fort is, being a CTF with cap points deep behind enemy spawn. I admit that I like point capture maps better, but I think those two maps aren't horrible by design or anything.

Badlands is good, just a little more cramped than everyone thought it would be. Shame it couldn't be parlayed into a version more faithful to the original.

 

[fallengorn]

CTF Well is a decent map, but I think it's repulsive in the same way as 2fort is, being a CTF with cap points deep behind enemy spawn.

In that respect CTF Well is worse than 2fort. Plus it seems that there's always some people who play on it as if it was still CP.

It'd be interesting to see a high-scoring CTF map where the cap points aren't as deep inside the bases.

 

[firex]

it's annoying because I think CTF scores are a server variable and not a map one. They should change that so there could be more variety in CTF maps.

 

[rakka]

i hate badlands. seriously. worst map ever. garbage. terrible. fucking terrible.

don't like it either...

ctf_well on the other hand i enjoy

 

[Davidion]

In that respect CTF Well is worse than 2fort. Plus it seems that there's always some people who play on it as if it was still CP.

It'd be interesting to see a high-scoring CTF map where the cap points aren't as deep inside the bases.

This is definitely true. :lol

CTF is just harder with the game's focus or even reliance on the team dynamic, unlike TFC. You're right though, someone's gotta come out with a really accessible CTF map sooner or later. it should be interesting.

 

[No Means Nomad]

CTF is just harder with the game's focus or even reliance on the team dynamic, unlike TFC. You're right though, someone's gotta come out with a really accessible CTF map sooner or later. it should be interesting.

I'm just starting working on a new CTF variant yesterday.

 

[Twig]

The only CTF map I find really enjoyable is Casbah. I can't really explain why, I just like it.

And Badlands is one of my favorites! You haters suck!

 

[fallengorn]

The only CTF map I find really enjoyable is Casbah. I can't really explain why, I just like it.

I like Casbah but the map has some problems. On one side (red) there are crates to jump up into the building that leads outside the base and the other doesn't. Spawn camping is a frequent issue.

It's too faithful to the original.

 

[rakka]

The only CTF map I find really enjoyable is Casbah.

casbah is one of my favorites

sometimes sucks to be on blue though.

 

[Aegus]

Fucking crits need to be toned down in power. Basically it's random IWIN button which gives your normal weapon more damage by a factor of 6.

Yeah I just just got killed by random shotgun/scattergun blasts that killed me in one hit at full health.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Scattershot does suck. That's my most annoying. Rockets are slow and easily avoidable. The number of times I've run around a corner and been hit by blind rocket crit span can probably be counted on one hand (excluding Hydro overtime). Scattershot crits from scouts seem to happen way to often and there's nothing to be done about it.

Almost annoying, however, is Pyro vs Pyro. Crits should be banned from those fights. It's all about out positioning your opponent to burn him in the back. That's the strategy. Nothing else. Aim is not part of the equation. It's about outpositioning. So you're doing this, and all of a sudden Valve decides to give one of the pyros a crit and end the battle. So WTF was everything before that about? It's not like you can do anything to avoid it. It's Valve saying this pyro gets the win. Because pyro battles take so long to decide otherwise.

 

[Confidence Man]

Tournament should have crits off.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Almost annoying, however, is Pyro vs Pyro. Crits should be banned from those fights. It's all about out positioning your opponent to burn him in the back. That's the strategy. Nothing else. Aim is not part of the equation. It's about outpositioning. So you're doing this, and all of a sudden Valve decides to give one of the pyros a crit and end the battle. So WTF was everything before that about? It's not like you can do anything to avoid it. It's Valve saying this pyro gets the win. Because pyro battles take so long to decide otherwise.

Actually, the strategy is to pull out a shotgun or axe before he does

 

[1-D_FTW]

Actually, the strategy is to pull out a shotgun or axe before he does

Is it? Cause I figured that would be the better strategy, and pulled my shotgun on a pyro a couple times and dude was burning me from straight on. From then on, I assumed the flamethrower was part of your invulnerability from head on.

I usually win pyro vs pyro. I just get super ticked when I blindly ambush a pyro and burn him good and he turns around and crits me. There's no strategy to avoid that and it's just Valve giving them a random win they would have otherwise lost 99 percent of the time.

EDIT: If anyone knows the exact rules for when you burn and when you don't, I'd love the definition. Or maybe it's just like spies who face stab you to death with one hit? Completely random with no rules.

 

[Zyzyxxz]

Fucking crits need to be toned down in power. Basically it's random IWIN button which gives your normal weapon more damage by a factor of 6.

Yeah I just just got killed by random shotgun/scattergun blasts that killed me in one hit at full health.

not for soldier though, the rocket itself is slow and easily avoidable if you see it coming. ALso teh new ammo cap makes it even worse for soldiers on offense.

 

[Davidion]

Is it? Cause I figured that would be the better strategy, and pulled my shotgun on a pyro a couple times and dude was burning me from straight on. From then on, I assumed the flamethrower was part of your invulnerability from head on.

I usually win pyro vs pyro. I just get super ticked when I blindly ambush a pyro and burn him good and he turns around and crits me. There's no strategy to avoid that and it's just Valve giving them a random win they would have otherwise lost 99 percent of the time.

EDIT: If anyone knows the exact rules for when you burn and when you don't, I'd love the definition. Or maybe it's just like spies who face stab you to death with one hit? Completely random with no rules.

I'm pretty sure Pyros can't be put on fire. They get damaged but the flame goes out once the flamethrower is turned away.

As for Pyro dueling, I agree with Kak, shotgun/axe is the way to go.

 

[fallengorn]

I'm pretty sure Pyros can't be put on fire. They get damaged but the flame goes out once the flamethrower is turned away.

As for Pyro dueling, I agree with Kak, shotgun/axe is the way to go.

Yeah, for a pyro they flame out after a second or two. Then you start spraying them with buckshot.