Tekken 7 FR Arcade Online Update 'Version C' Balance Changelist courtesy of Wonkey.
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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads
- Thread starter AAK
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Spuck-uk
Banned
This is definitely not bull, making a demo version is a fucking pain in the ass for any game.
Source: worked as a game dev, demos are a living hell, everyone hates making them.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
I'm glad you get it and can speak from experience. Unless things are planned/budgeted (not just resource; human resources too) in advance, it is not likely to happen.
Everyone has about 2 to 3 buffs/nerfs but then you scroll down to Akuma and see 25 straight nerfs for him lmao.....
MikeBreezy92
Member
Its kinda like they reset him to Zero tbh.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Osu 16 Bit
Member
Katarina's d+1 was negative on hit before, so that's nice. If her f,f+4 is now safer or even safe in some match ups that's very good, since it's her homing move.
In that case, they should have budgeted for a demo that would reach a mass audience instead of Wizard World events that only people with time and resources to travel can attend.
I would be interested to know the staff and budget involved for GG Xrd Revelator and KoFXIV in comparison to Tekken 7. My thought is that the former games probably have 1/4 the budget and half the staff but that's just me assuming numbers/figures based on the past success of these franchises. I try to not be negative but it's hard to not bitch about the looooongest wait time this franchise has probably ever had.
Kazumi thoEveryone except Lars:
Lars:
df+1 nerfed to death between all these buffs
Would still take OG df+1 tbh
GrayFoxPL
Member
Akuma players are like: "The fuck I wasted all my time on him?"
The Akumer nerf avalanche is hilarious but the butthurt outcry will be sooo good.
The changes are great. Watching this character was awful experience with mindless df+1 spam. Now I hope players will use more of her tools and make matches interesting.
Pure speculation on my part but even after those nerfs, Akuma still looks damn good on paper to me. Fantastic 10f standing/11f ws punishers, easy input 14f standing launcher, easy input 13f while rising launcher, good backdash, invincible DP, 15f non-launch punishable low poke, chip damage on specials. No other character has frame data as good as that. And that's not even considering his options with meter meter. I dunno, I think if you just play Akuma solidly with proper matchup knowledge it looks like he will still wreck havok. The demon flip gimmicks just seem like a bonus on top of an already complete character. That's something most other gimmicky characters like Raven/Zafina/Asuka/among others can't compete with.
But all this talk about tiers might just be thrown out the window with Bob getting ready to terrorize after Akuma's reign in a few hours.
But all this talk about tiers might just be thrown out the window with Bob getting ready to terrorize after Akuma's reign in a few hours.
MikeBreezy92
Member
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
Akuma is pure risk/reward at this point. He can't make himself safe and commit to a huge damage series unless he has meter. Yes, he looks great on paper. He's 'normalized' now. Good players will still be able to wreck people with him.
He just doesn't have anything he can spam anymore (I like that change).
He just doesn't have anything he can spam anymore (I like that change).
MikeBreezy92
Member
Or what MarkMan said. Will this patch and Bob be available at the next wizard world tournament?
But why even go for the risk as Akuma? Why can't he just turtle and poke using safe mids combined with d+3 and then launch when the opportunity arises? And based off his frame data, he can still get launches pretty liberally off of various blocked low pokes. I don't see Yoshi's punishment game even close to Akuma's.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
Even though ESTON got rocked by Taizo, I still enjoyed watching his Yoshimitsu play lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt4WBFWLLu8
Thinking about using more Yoshimitsu!
(Currently I use Akuma, King and Steve)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt4WBFWLLu8
Thinking about using more Yoshimitsu!
(Currently I use Akuma, King and Steve)...
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
EDIT 2: I'm not saying Akuma isn't good anymore, he's still fine. I can't really think of any completely bad chars in this game.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
No changes to Claudio is good. He only really needs f+4 to force crouch on block again.
Those other characters may have better pokes, but they are no where near the same realm of Akuma in terms of punishment ability and defensive options.
You could be right and in practice it won't go as I'm imagining it. But I can't help but look at those tools and think he's among the upper echelon of cast members.
We knew Akuma would be nerfed and now he'll be a character that can be a beast that only experts know how to use. That's how he should always be. In SF he's got low health for a reason. I'm glad he's been changed so we won't see everybody flock to him. We'll only see a good amount master him now. As it should be, he's a monster in the right hands.
Same should apply to others.
Same should apply to others.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
His punishment isn't even good. He lacks actual strong defensive options like orbitals, magic 4s, d/f+1s, ch jab strings. But hey he has a launch punishable uppercut that does 10 damage so his defense must be good. You have a lot of bold opinions on a game you've never even played.
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
Akuma's best moves are...
- d/f+1,1 (unless the second hit is ducked, then just d/f+1)
- standing 2 into fireball (mid to max distance, otherwise most characters can punish it)
- f+3, puts you into optimal range for d+3 mixups
- WS+2 into demon flip (you need this as your main mixup at d+3 range)
- f,f+4
- d+2 (can be special cancelled into things)
- jump in 2 or 4
There are some uses for his crouching jab, mainly to punish things that push you into crouch and are -10. etc.
But all his other moves (specials) are things you need to risk hitting. You can't hit confirm unless you have meter, ala fireball FADC. So keep that in mind.
GrayFoxPL
Member
I was thinking: It's very likely they did it all on purpose.
It's hard to believe they didn't very well knew how OP Akuma was beforehand. I don't believe dudes in Tekken team that test and optimize gameplay are some inferior players that gasp at the sight of Akuma death combos from Korea and Japan. They probably did all that stuff way before. It's not only Akuma too, in general the damage in this game goes through the roof and they consciously released it in that form.
First version was like a bait. "Let them have all this crazy shit for few months. Let them post death combos on youtube and all that. It will do us good. Then turn on the cold shower, step by step. We can't have broken Tekken, lol."
Hehe...Nice move.
It's hard to believe they didn't very well knew how OP Akuma was beforehand. I don't believe dudes in Tekken team that test and optimize gameplay are some inferior players that gasp at the sight of Akuma death combos from Korea and Japan. They probably did all that stuff way before. It's not only Akuma too, in general the damage in this game goes through the roof and they consciously released it in that form.
First version was like a bait. "Let them have all this crazy shit for few months. Let them post death combos on youtube and all that. It will do us good. Then turn on the cold shower, step by step. We can't have broken Tekken, lol."
Hehe...Nice move.
Ricksteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezy talks about Bob
https://www.twitch.tv/ricksteeezy/v/82399552?t=41m25s
https://www.twitch.tv/ricksteeezy/v/82399552?t=41m25s
Other than sweep, dp, and fireball, I don't consider those "main" moves. The dp you use in special situations for its invincibility. So it's meant to be unsafe just like lightning screw and backswing blow. Fireball is also a main move, but it's meant to be used at a specific range where it's -13 property isn't a main factor. It's like how Heihachi's f,f+2 isn't meant to be used when your opponent's back is to the wall where it becomes punishable. And the sweep is a knockdown low which is also universally launch punishable in Tekken's design except for the extremely slow & seeable ones like King's CD+1.
To me one of his main moves that you should always be seeing is his d/f+1. It's above average in the fact that it's 13 frames and doesn't have irregular range. Judging by the animation it should be consistent in punishing things like L.C.'s california rolls while someone like Hwoarang can't because of the poor range on his.
d+3 is his other main move. It's just as fast as Josie's d+4 and only -11. That's pretty damned good low poke to me for chipping away at your opponent's health bar. I wonder if you can even interrupt a d+3 cancel into fireball from Akuma with a ws+4 if you block the d+3. If you can't then that makes the move even better.
Aside from that his other moves that way more important IMO than those moves you listed are his jump in moves. A neutral jump into a kick or a punch pretty much behaves like an orbital (although slower) and they're plus on block. And best of all they can become launchers if they hit. That's a defensive tool no other character has. And we've seen from the videos that these neutral and forward jumps can crush mids just like how Josie's orbital knee does in some instances.
And there's his regular 2. That's a safe 14 frame mid that you can cancel into a full launcher. Not sure about how negative it is but it's something way safer to use than throwing out tatsu's and demon flips.
His ws+1 is 13 frames that can launch you. So if you block many core moves of other characters like Dragunov's d+2, Bryan's hatchet kick, Josie's CD+3 Akuma gets a full launch with ws+1 cancel into DP or Tatsu. Only other characters with that level of punishment from a crouch to rising position are Kazuya and Josie.
And another defensive option that people are ignoring is his teleport. He can escape unfavorable wall position far easier than any other character. The usual strategy is to slowly creep your way out of the wall by slowly sidestepping/walking and blocking until you can move again. Akuma can simply get out of there fast.
Yes, I haven't played the game yet. But just looking at these tools on paper, I still think Akuma is one of the better characters in the game. He's just not God Tier anymore.
I wonder whose fault that is.
Cosmic Forge
Member
Eston is great to watch. So is Eye Musician, and APO (Ah-poo if you're Aris
), as well as Kari. So many entertaining Yoshis these days, its refreshing.It's a shame about his nerf on d/f+1,2. But I've beat that horse to smithereens at this point.
About the only thing I can hope for is a damage buff for him. And yet...
It makes me think about the "intended" playstyle of the character. I always try to pay attention to that when trying a new character. You can see it in the movelists and properties what the dev team envisioned for their playstyle.
Bulldog/Rushdown/Pressure -- Bob, Lars, Laws, etc
Defensive/Spacial Control/etc -- Raven, Kuni, etc
So when I look at Yoshimitsu now... I kinda see what the dev team is going for.
They aren't going for sick damage OMGWTF combos, they want more usage of unblockables (faster across the board but less damage), and more hit-and-run playstyle. His stance transformations are so much faster now. And I think they probably noticed that very few Yoshi players were using his stance transitions to good effect. JFJ probably being helpful in that realization (in that his confusion style can be legit).
My 2 pesos, anyway.
Take using Bob right now https://www.twitch.tv/shudy_yoshel
Cosmic Forge
Member
Oldest strats in Tekken right here.
(pretty much)
(pretty much)
Seems like a nice update really.
I'm crossing my fingers for that cross play feature, because if so, then I'll go PC this time.
Maybe I shouldn't really have a "main" in Tekken 7, if I want to seriously get into all of the technical verbs, the basics, and systems and mechanics of the gameplay itself.
I'm crossing my fingers for that cross play feature, because if so, then I'll go PC this time.
Maybe I shouldn't really have a "main" in Tekken 7, if I want to seriously get into all of the technical verbs, the basics, and systems and mechanics of the gameplay itself.
Green also streaming now https://www.twitch.tv/greentekken
Eish, the urine lighting is not doing any favors for Yoshimitsu's outfit there.
MikeBreezy92
Member
The Fundoshi is back...
The match-up of the century:
Still lame how much they're re-using from Tag 2 though. Even Yoshimitsu's "stripped down" self is straight from that game, instead of being adapted to his Tekken 7 costume.
Note the shoes. And, well, this. I don't know who left the team, but they just haven't been going the distance with customizations anymore.
At least this time around they've got the proper Heihachi fundoshis.
Still lame how much they're re-using from Tag 2 though. Even Yoshimitsu's "stripped down" self is straight from that game, instead of being adapted to his Tekken 7 costume.
Note the shoes. And, well, this. I don't know who left the team, but they just haven't been going the distance with customizations anymore.
At least this time around they've got the proper Heihachi fundoshis.
Have a Nice Day
Member
People claiming that Bob's db3+4, 3+4 no longer option selects since blocking the first hit will stagger him.
begs the question...what exactly were those tubes/tentacles for ? lol
MarkMan
loves Arcade Sticks
Haven't been able to punish Lucky Chloe's BT f+3+4,f+3+4 with d/f+1 at all in my testing.
d+3 is a great move. Cancelling it into fireball cannot be interrupted by WS+4 on block. However because of this, players can duck within the ideal range to make d+3 combo into his specials (hadouken, tatsu). That's what makes his d/f+1 and iWS+2 pressure viable.
If he commits to a button early, he has to do something quick to be able to combo afterwards. The later he does it, the more + frames he has on hit. For example, jump in 4 into d+2 will not combo. However a later jump in 4 (while landing) into d+2 will. If that makes sense. Otherwise you have to do jump in d/f+1,2 or jump in 1,2, etc.
2 is not mid, it is special mid (can't be low parried though), so there is no mixup between blocking 2 xx or d+3 xx. And since the update now, demon flips can always be hopkicked/hit on reaction.
WS+1? WS+1 is high though, it won't punish many things. That's why you don't see anyone using it as much. Also it has bad range. He does have great FC options though, like the aforementioned FC 1 cancel into tatsu or FC sweep/d+3 for mixups/pressure.
The teleport was much better in the older versions. Now if the player knows/they can scout it, Akuma is extremely punishable if the opponent is prepared.
I agree. On paper, he has great tools, but not amazing ones. I'd list him as solid mid/upper mid until someone breaks him down even more than they already have. My main gripe, as I've always mentioned, he is such a risk/reward character. If he hits (and has meter), he hits hard. Now he can't abuse things like he did before. Everything abusable that he had was normalized in a way where you can't abuse it (without taking a huge risk).
TestMonkey
Member
No Master Raven gameplay yet?
GrayFoxPL
Member
She's out in a month or so.
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