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Tekken |OT2| Pulse of the Regionally Discriminated Knuckleheads

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sasuke_91

Member
Good games Doomshine. I currently try to concentrate on my 2 biggest flaws. Aggressiveness and Spacing. I also tried to stay calm and reduce wrong inputs. Everytime I lost my concentration i started whiffing moves again.
I felt very confident after our matches and went to ranking for a few rounds. Got frustrated after losing to 2 Lili-players. Staying calm does not work against someone who spams lows and throws...
 

Sayah

Member
OH man, Tekken 7 does a cool thing like the slo-mo for KO...

Mortal Kombat X not only does a slo-mo, but a brand new animation unique to the kill and a special death animation.

Common NRS, let Tekken win in one feature at least :(

MKX is looking great no doubt and quite so winning in presentation but Tekken 7 is going to be the better game regardless.

What MKX is doing wrong.

1. Female character modeling is some of the worst I have seen. Unacceptable for a game in 2015.

2. Netcode concerns are legit based on past entries.

3. Game balance concerns are legit based on past entries and it's especially likely to be imbalanced based on three different styles for each character.

4. Concerns of NRS going overboard with patching are legit based on history.

5. Pricing scheme is atrocious and turned me away from buying the game.

6. People saying it's not as clunky as before but still clunky, which has me worried.


What Tekken 7 has going bad for it.

1. Terrible soundtrack so far outside of the jungle stage.

2. Roster of new characters doesn't feel so great. Character designs could be much much better.

3. Same outdated costume designs being used since Tekken 5 for returning characters. And don't be surprised when TKXSF also has these characters in the same clothes.

4. Hideous customs

5. Little evolution of gameplay. When someone can replicate your main "flop/tailspin/whatever" mechanic on a PSP version of Tekken 6, you know you need to do more.

So in summary Tekken 7 is failing in presentation while MKX is failing (or will likely fail) in all other categories (netcode, balance, pricing).

With that being said, Tekken 7 is running on Unreal Engine 4 and will still look far superior to MKX despite reuse of assets and costumes. In addition, despite little to no evolution from Tag 2 to Tekken 7, Tekken 7 will still have the deeper and more interesting gameplay system over MKX.

At the end of day, gameplay, balance, depth, and netcode (which Tekken does better) is more important to me in fighting games than story and character designs (which MKX does a better job with).
 
I actually think after two games especially after injustice post major patch, balance isn't an issue. Even in mk9 with an apparent top tier the game is balanced enough.

MKX has a lot more going for it. Pricing and netcode aside.

I won't say Tekken or MK will be a better game because T7 has the potential to be boring as shit ala SSF4 based on mechanics. MKX looks more fun than Tekken does right now. But that's because I'm familiar with MK9 and see how big the changes are compared TTT2 to T7 which is....eh iterative

I think you're riding Tekken a little too hard here.
 

Sayah

Member
l don't know about that balance. With three different versions of each character, it's seeming even more unlikely for it to be well balanced.

I'm not riding Tekken. I'm very much aware of what Tekken 7 is doing wrong. But, subjectively, from my opinion, MKX won't match Tekken 7's gameplay depth despite there being little evolution from Tekken 6/TTT2 --> Tekken 7. I'm just happy to be going back to 1v1.
 
l don't know about that balance. With three different versions of each character, it's seeming even more unlikely for it to be well balanced.

Honestly the only thing that looks potentially broken is reptile. Not much need for huge amounts of balancing because the variations don't completely change the character like the grooves do in CVS2.

And I mean, even Tekken struggles with balance in its first iterations before hitting console. MK doesn't have that "luxury" anymore so you see the game evolve personally than when you pick up Tekken and everything is good to go.
 

Sayah

Member
Well, we won't know for sure how broken the game will be until the players actually get their hands on it. It has to release first.

I'm not saying I want the game to be broken. Just that I'm expecting it to be. Of course, the best case scenario is if it turns out to be very well balanced, in which case, we're all happy.
 
Well, we won't know for sure how broken the game will be until the players actually get their hands on it. It has to release first.

I'm not saying I want the game to be broken. Just that I'm expecting it to be. Of course, the best case scenario is if it turns out to be very well balanced, in which case, we're all happy.

You're not gonna buy the game though unless you're getting it used lol.

Expecting a game to be broken this day in age though? It's been a long time since a game has truly been broken.
 

Sayah

Member
You're not gonna buy the game though unless you're getting it used lol.

Expecting a game to be broken this day in age though? It's been a long time since a game has truly been broken.

I wasn't implying I'm getting the game.

A game doesn't have to be "truly broken" for it to be heavily imbalanced. What are you even implying with "truly" broken? What's the difference between "broken" and "truly broken?"
 

Dereck

Member
Dude I don't see the female model complaints, maybe I could understand a few months ago, did you see the stream today? Cassie Cage's character model/face looks amazing, Kitana looks good, the insect lady gets a pass because she isn't human.
 

Xevren

Member
I'm pretty curious to see how balance will be out of the gate for MKX. MK 9 we had the whole Kung Lao running amok which sucked. Injustice was the constant Black Adams or Supermans. Both games ended up great balance wise imo, just took some time.
 

Sayah

Member
Dude I don't see the female model complaints, maybe I could understand a few months ago, did you see the stream today? Cassie Cage's character model/face looks amazing, Kitana looks good, the insect lady gets a pass because she isn't human.

It wasn't looking amazing at all last time I saw it. If this is the update you're talking about, it looks hideous.

B00qseXCUAA487P.jpg


Unless today's stream changed her face model further.
 

Dereck

Member
I recommend watching the stream if you're interested

And, even if the face was the same as the right photo (it isn't), the face doesn't look bad

Cassie in the photo looks nowhere near as bad as any female character in Injustice
 

Sayah

Member
I don't know how this "looks amazing." I would say it looks much better than the last two but still needs a lot of work. Particularly, hair look like they're glued to her head and the new update makes her eyes looks like she smeared coal all over them.

jfFxXhwfLnog8.jpg


With that being said, I'm glad they're recognizing this as a problem and constantly trying to fix it over time.

And get rid of that ugly ear gear piece. It looks like a fisher price toy. Update the design on that and make it look a little more cool.
 
I wasn't implying I'm getting the game.

A game doesn't have to be "truly broken" for it to be heavily imbalanced. What are you even implying with "truly" broken? What's the difference between "broken" and "truly broken?"

As in not just a throw away term for imbalanced. As in the game is damn near unplayable. Only a few characters are viable. One playstyle runs the game. Glitchy as all hell. etc. etc.

Even then saying a game is heavily imbalanced today is hard to say besides games like Marvel and even that is balanced arguably with its madness definitely more so than its predecessor. MK9 and Injustice were fixed. AE was replaced by 2012 and Ultra. Games are generally well balanced these days to expect one to be imbalanced is weird. Especially with patching.
 

Sayah

Member
As in not just a throw away term for imbalanced. As in the game is damn near unplayable. Only a few characters are viable. One playstyle runs the game. Glitchy as all hell. etc. etc.

Even then saying a game is heavily imbalanced today is hard to say besides games like Marvel and even that is balanced arguably with its madness definitely more so than its predecessor. MK9 and Injustice were fixed. AE was replaced by 2012 and Ultra. Games are generally well balanced these days to expect one to be imbalanced is weird. Especially with patching.

One single character can be broken and that can upset the whole balance of the game even if the game itself is not glitchy and unplayable.

And NRS games have shipped with these imbalances in the past. Constant revision to finally get a more balanced end product is not what I'm talking about.

It's not like I'm expecting fighting games to be perfect from the very beginning. No fighting game can be perfect. There will always be problems. But some game franchises are more notorious over others for having problems.
 
One single character can be broken and that can upset the whole balance of the game even if the game itself is not glitchy and unplayable.

Like Bob in T6? T4 Jin? T5 Steve? TTT2 Hwoarang (I'm stretching)?

What I'm getting at is that Tekken hasn't been as balanced as it has been until DR or its proceeding balance patch. Its unfair to assume the worse when NRS has balanced their games over time. Just like Tekken has. They're very similar in that regard. One just is in the Arcade one gets online patching.
 

Manbig

Member
Man, I think I might have had the worst run of Tekken yet tonight. I can't even really blame the lag. While there definitely was plenty of it, I was just making a lot of bad decisions and made a lot of huge input errors. This one Bryan player was just taunting in my face all day long for free too. Just one of those days man lol.
 
Man, I think I might have had the worst run of Tekken yet tonight. I can't even really blame the lag. While there definitely was plenty of it, I was just making a lot of bad decisions and made a lot of huge input errors. This one Bryan player was just taunting in my face all day long for free too. Just one of those days man lol.

Yo that was me yesterday. When you drop the f4,3 in a Lee/Violet combo you just need to stop. Then I was getting hit by every fucking thing. Made good reads but couldn't punish or dropped the combo at the worst moments. It was rough.
 

Sayah

Member
Like Bob in T6? T4 Jin? T5 Steve? TTT2 Hwoarang (I'm stretching)?

What I'm getting at is that Tekken hasn't been as balanced as it has been until DR or its proceeding balance patch. Its unfair to assume the worse when NRS has balanced their games over time. Just like Tekken has. They're very similar in that regard. One just is in the Arcade one gets online patching.

Did you just disregard the rest of my post? I just got done telling you no game is going to be perfect at first release or after any release for that matter. The threshold is different for different franchises though. I expect greater balance from Tekken because they've really shown improvement over time and it shows. They went from broken broken Tekken 4 to well balanced TTT2. The only issue TTT2 had initially was Hwoarang's unblockable in TAs and that was easily resolved. The recent releases haven't had super glaring issues. And nothing earth shattering has been discovered in Tekken 7 so far. Japanese players have only had the game for a little while, though, so we'll see how it progresses.

I don't expect greater balance from MK because with every release I am reading/watching videos of how initially unbalanced NetherRealm games are.
 
I don't expect greater balance from MK because with every release I am reading/watching videos of how initially unbalanced NetherRealm games are.

Like Tekken games HAVE been, which is my point. OG TTT2 is probably the best first try they've had.

If Tekken came out like MK has aka without an arcade release, you'd probably say the same about the Tekken team.
 

Sayah

Member
Like Tekken games HAVE been, which is my point. OG TTT2 is probably the best first try they've had.

If Tekken came out like MK has aka without an arcade release, you'd probably say the same about the Tekken team.

I was accounting for arcade releases in my post if it wasn't clear already.
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Good games Doomshine. I currently try to concentrate on my 2 biggest flaws. Aggressiveness and Spacing. I also tried to stay calm and reduce wrong inputs. Everytime I lost my concentration i started whiffing moves again.
I felt very confident after our matches and went to ranking for a few rounds. Got frustrated after losing to 2 Lili-players. Staying calm does not work against someone who spams lows and throws...

You can't play 2 people the same way, I mean not 100%. You can't play some scrubs like you play Doomshine. It's like implementing Chess strategy to a game of Checkers.
You wouldn't think doing 4 hopkicks or sweeps in a row would ever work. In fights like these it's pretty much the smartest thing you can do.

We should play, maybe in tournament rules 2/3, loser can change characters?
 

sasuke_91

Member
You can't play 2 people the same way, I mean not 100%. You can't play some scrubs like you play Doomshine. It's like implementing Chess strategy to a game of Checkers.
You wouldn't think doing 4 hopkicks or sweeps in a row would ever work. In fights like these it's pretty much the smartest thing you can do.

We should play, maybe in tournament rules 2/3, loser can change characters?
Yeah. I don't want my random ducking to appear again, so I try not to duck too often. Should have used some low crushing launcher, but I didn't think of it in that situation. The gimmicks... they kill me every time >_<

We can play with tournament rules... If we ever play at the same time again... o_O
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
Had nice set of matches with Tosin and with good connection too(only one match was laggy). Funny thing was initially my trolly Summer Festival Bryan-Bruce Brawler-Mentor beat his Warrior-Avenger Lee-Hwoarang something like 5-1. I don't know how XD, b+2 and muay thai stance too stronk. Too stronk for T7 too.

But then I couldn't beat his 3rd Dan Xiaoyu so it equaled out in the end. We played many different characters, was very fun and back and forth.

Btw I don't know what magic sauce is in Bruce's b+2 but that move have no right to score counter hits like it does. Sometimes it looks like it crushes everything.
 
That's every Tekken player though. Talking down at least a little bit on the players that are lesser than you. It's no good man. lol

I do think he's full of shit every once in a while though and have called him out on it. Dude was trying to tell me that Lars is not much better than Jin.
No, that is not every Tekken player or every player who has succeeded beyond a casual level. I can not recall ever speaking down to a "lesser" player, unless they are clearly puffing themselves up.

I am happy to play anyone. The only scenario I lose interest in playing someone is when they are simply not trying. Overall, I refuse to be bundled with the proud. Anakin and Speedkicks do not like me very much because I do try to embrace humility. It is the only way I can really even enjoy Tekken. If I let what pride I have get in the way, then the game is no longer any fun.
 

Manbig

Member
No, that is not every Tekken player or every player who has succeeded beyond a casual level. I can not recall ever speaking down to a "lesser" player, unless they are clearly puffing themselves up.

I am happy to play anyone. The only scenario I lose interest in playing someone is when they are simply not trying. Overall, I refuse to be bundled with the proud. Anakin and Speedkicks do not like me very much because I do try to embrace humility. It is the only way I can really even enjoy Tekken. If I let what pride I have get in the way, then the game is no longer any fun.

I corrected myself a bit in my follow up post. I 100% believe that everyone has, at one point or another, had the thought of "I shouldn't have lost to this person." Whether you want to blame lag, exploitation of some dumb set up that you should have known how to get around, or just simply thinking that they got lucky, I'll bet money that this happens to everyone.

Yes, I am also saying that this means that in this scenario, you are talking down to them. Even if you are talking to yourself there. You are pretty much stating that you think that you are better than that player and should not have lost. Simple as that really.

I don't know how this "looks amazing." I would say it looks much better than the last two but still needs a lot of work. Particularly, hair look like they're glued to her head and the new update makes her eyes looks like she smeared coal all over them.

jfFxXhwfLnog8.jpg

I don't see the issue here. Unless you are trying to imply that a female character needs to fit some stereotypical, super model esque look. That would be a different story I guess.
 

AAK

Member
Lion-O was one passionate dude. Looks super fun to chill with. That was a great podcast with him.

MKX is looking great no doubt and quite so winning in presentation but Tekken 7 is going to be the better game regardless.

What MKX is doing wrong.

1. Female character modeling is some of the worst I have seen. Unacceptable for a game in 2015.

2. Netcode concerns are legit based on past entries.

3. Game balance concerns are legit based on past entries and it's especially likely to be imbalanced based on three different styles for each character.

4. Concerns of NRS going overboard with patching are legit based on history.

5. Pricing scheme is atrocious and turned me away from buying the game.

6. People saying it's not as clunky as before but still clunky, which has me worried.


What Tekken 7 has going bad for it.

1. Terrible soundtrack so far outside of the jungle stage.

2. Roster of new characters doesn't feel so great. Character designs could be much much better.

3. Same outdated costume designs being used since Tekken 5 for returning characters. And don't be surprised when TKXSF also has these characters in the same clothes.

4. Hideous customs

5. Little evolution of gameplay. When someone can replicate your main "flop/tailspin/whatever" mechanic on a PSP version of Tekken 6, you know you need to do more.

So in summary Tekken 7 is failing in presentation while MKX is failing (or will likely fail) in all other categories (netcode, balance, pricing).

With that being said, Tekken 7 is running on Unreal Engine 4 and will still look far superior to MKX despite reuse of assets and costumes. In addition, despite little to no evolution from Tag 2 to Tekken 7, Tekken 7 will still have the deeper and more interesting gameplay system over MKX.

At the end of day, gameplay, balance, depth, and netcode (which Tekken does better) is more important to me in fighting games than story and character designs (which MKX does a better job with).

All in all, I just wish Namco put as much effort in their presentation as NRS did. NRS redid 90% of all the character's animations and throws, they redid all the character art giving everyone brand new outfits AND 2P outfits, and now they're doing over 100 unique character specific KO/death animations. Nothing is recycled from MK9. I miss the days when I could play Tekken and beam my eyes in hype and disbelief at witnessing a specific move for the first time. Seeing moves for the first time like Yoshimitsu's Izuna Drop, Hwoarang's Hunting Hawks, Bryan's Chains of Misery, some of the Tag throws/tag throw breaks in TTT2, Eddy's slippery kicks, Steve's sway crushes, etc. were part of what made Tekken the game everyone wanted to play.

I'm getting those same feelings when I see some of the new stuff MKX comes up with and I wish Namco would try really hard to reach that level of ambition again.
 
I corrected myself a bit in my follow up post. I 100% believe that everyone has, at one point or another, had the thought of "I shouldn't have lost to this person." Whether you want to blame lag, exploitation of some dumb set up that you should have known how to get around, or just simply thinking that they got lucky, I'll bet money that this happens to everyone.

Yes, I am also saying that this means that in this scenario, you are talking down to them. Even if you are talking to yourself there. You are pretty much stating that you think that you are better than that player and should not have lost. Simple as that really.

...
I do not see where you corrected yourself. The understanding I get from your statement is that; do not judge Anakin/SpeedKicks because at some point you have thought the same. Which is like saying, don't judge a murderer because you have hated someone before.

There is also a trouble with definitions, because of those like PokChop. Someone who will trash talk you for days, but is one of the nicest people you could meet. Whereas my experience with Anakin and even Justin Wong is that condescending look that you even exist to be so terrible at the game.

We should be ashamed if that is even just the expected experience in Tekken or other activities. No wonder competitive gaming is being so slow to take off in America. It makes me want to double my servings of humble pie.
 

Sayah

Member
All in all, I just wish Namco put as much effort in their presentation as NRS did. NRS redid 90% of all the character's animations and throws, they redid all the character art giving everyone brand new outfits AND 2P outfits, and now they're doing over 100 unique character specific KO/death animations. Nothing is recycled from MK9. I miss the days when I could play Tekken and beam my eyes in hype and disbelief at witnessing a specific move for the first time. Seeing moves for the first time like Yoshimitsu's Izuna Drop, Hwoarang's Hunting Hawks, Bryan's Chains of Misery, some of the Tag throws/tag throw breaks in TTT2, Eddy's slippery kicks, Steve's sway crushes, etc. were part of what made Tekken the game everyone wanted to play.

I'm getting those same feelings when I see some of the new stuff MKX comes up with and I wish Namco would try really hard to reach that level of ambition again.

I think you have to consider Tekken and Mortal Kombat are very different. Mortal Kombat doesn't have nearly as many animations as Tekken.

There was someone named lone dragon in the other thread expecting Namco to update every single animation there is and redo the motion capture. I find that absurd and unreasonable. They are already incurring heavy development costs in HD and with unreal engine 4. It's not a matter of the team being lazy. I think theyre trying to do the best they can with the resources, money, and time that they have. I don't know their development budget, of course, but I do know costs are high and companies nowadays always want to rush releases. And it is pretty amazing how far they got in a matter of a few months even though a lot of stuff is recycled.
 

Manbig

Member
I do not see where you corrected yourself. The understanding I get from your statement is that; do not judge Anakin/SpeedKicks because at some point you have thought the same. Which is like saying, don't judge a murderer because you have hated someone before.

There is also a trouble with definitions, because of those like PokChop. Someone who will trash talk you for days, but is one of the nicest people you could meet. Whereas my experience with Anakin and even Justin Wong is that condescending look that you even exist to be so terrible at the game.

We should be ashamed if that is even just the expected experience in Tekken or other activities. No wonder competitive gaming is being so slow to take off in America. It makes me want to double my servings of humble pie.

In no way did I imply that they should not be judged. You are choosing to interpret it like that for whatever reason.

What I was saying was if you are going to look down on that sort of behavior, make sure you aren't doing the same thing yourself. Even if it is not on the same level.

This is also why I'm not one of those people that is celebrating Pokchop's behavior versus Real Law, despite Real Law being one of those people that lets his mouth get him in trouble fairly often.

Also, your murderer example is laughably way over the top and nowhere near a fair comparison here.
 
In no way did I imply that they should not be judged. You are choosing to interpret it like that for whatever reason.

What I was saying was if you are going to look down on that sort of behavior, make sure you aren't doing the same thing yourself. Even if it is not on the same level.

This is also why I'm not one of those people that is celebrating Pokchop's behavior versus Real Law, despite Real Law being one of those people that lets his mouth get him in trouble fairly often.

Also, your murderer example is laughably way over the top and nowhere near a fair comparison here.
You pointed out that Anakin was talking down to people, then made a parallel to yourself doing the same. Then concluded that everyone does it. Clearly excusing the behavior. Of course, that was from your long post on the matter, since then you have lost me on your stance.

Perhaps, you are right about Pokchop's behavior.

To me, it is that serious. Perhaps, you have never seen the EVO A Cautionary Tale: My first time experience with FGC Video. The more we white wash the problems we have with top players thinking that their crap don't stink to competitors not caring about another person's life. The more unlikely it will be that the FGC becomes accepted in the mainstream.
 

Sayah

Member
I don't see the issue here. Unless you are trying to imply that a female character needs to fit some stereotypical, super model esque look. That would be a different story I guess.

I'll be the last person to say that female characters have to fulfill some super model criteria. In fact, I've already said before that fighting games need to diversify their female cast. I would really like a plump or old woman as a fighter. Which fighting games have females with features like that? Because I can't think of any.

I've said I'm happy they are noticing that Cassie cages model needs to be improved but it is still not good. The hair, in particular, look very rough and outdated and the eyes are creepy. They've done a good job with the rest, though. It's not even about looking "beautiful."
 

GrayFoxPL

Member
I just realized you can bound after low parry in T7.


Also Kaz actually has a second move he can bound with. But it's ss+1+2 and seems hard to use, but I wonder if it auto bounds on ch or something.
 

DEATH™

Member
Just 2 cents but with my limited experience with talking with Anakin, he seems pretty chill. Dude gave me tips on playing to improve.

I think all these trashtalking is just on the surface level when you consider that Tekken community has a tough love attitude. I guess we just need someone that will say how we do things.

In general, with my limited experience with the offline scene, I do believe the Tekken playerbase is the most passionate and nice people around. We are leaving stuff all over Strongstyle venue and nobody is stealing something lol.
 

sasuke_91

Member
Had nice set of matches with Tosin and with good connection too(only one match was laggy). Funny thing was initially my trolly Summer Festival Bryan-Bruce Brawler-Mentor beat his Warrior-Avenger Lee-Hwoarang something like 5-1. I don't know how XD, b+2 and muay thai stance too stronk. Too stronk for T7 too.

But then I couldn't beat his 3rd Dan Xiaoyu so it equaled out in the end. We played many different characters, was very fun and back and forth.

Btw I don't know what magic sauce is in Bruce's b+2 but that move have no right to score counter hits like it does. Sometimes it looks like it crushes everything.

Oh so he's an Avenger again. He was a Duelist a few days ago.
He had problems fighting Xiaoyu in the past, so he just began playing her himself. He's already become a really good Xiaoyu-player.

Bruce's CH launchers are so annoying. And yeah... his weird crush moves.

Played that Warrior Bryan/Bruce who did nothing but Snake Edge whenever I got close to him. I refused to even block it after some time. I don't understand how one can use such a hard character like Bryan and spam his way through ranking. I got Hwo demoted to Marauder, Jin to Grand Master and Kazuya to Master today. Might as well drop ranking for good.
 
DEATH™;153980612 said:
Just 2 cents but with my limited experience with talking with Anakin, he seems pretty chill. Dude gave me tips on playing to improve.

I think all these trashtalking is just on the surface level when you consider that Tekken community has a tough love attitude. I guess we just need someone that will say how we do things.

In general, with my limited experience with the offline scene, I do believe the Tekken playerbase is the most passionate and nice people around. We are leaving stuff all over Strongstyle venue and nobody is stealing something lol.

Pretty much how I see it too. Pokchop doing his thing reminds me of streetball. It's all in good fun. Everybody had bouts of superiority though, no one can deny that.
 

Dereck

Member
I asked this in Rip's stream and no one answered me, why does Law suck in Tekken 7? Rip said it in his chat, and I'm confused.
 

Xevren

Member
I would but man, my internet just crapped itself today. Getting like 1 MB download and 0.2 MB upload and i pay for 15/10.

Just checking out figuring out some system things in DOA in the practice mode.

Hey now you feel my pain with my old connection! Thank god that pain is over.
 
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