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[chadskin]

This is happening right now, Place de la République.

Fucking beautiful. Stay strong, Paris.

 

[Maninthemirror]

One interesting theory I've heard is that Islam is still a young religion - it's six centuries younger than Christianity and hasn't had its great reform yet. I'm far from a specialist, though.

they should all join my sect http://www.alislam.org/introduction/ (shamles plug) but we exist in 10s of million (more than radicalists)

 

[FlyingSaucer]

I really hope they get them.
What the French should do with them I will leave it in my mind but these people don't deserve to be treated like normal criminals.

I hope they get tried and receive a life sentence of prison. A working judicial system should be the highest pride of civlization, and things like extra-legal judicial killings should be seen as the return to barbary that they are.

 

[esms]

Exactly.

With modern day globalization the flaws of Islam (or any other religion) is easily seen. I think muslims don't do the religion favor when we they "There is nothing wrong with Islam, it's a religion of peace". I think that's just being lazy and taking the easy way out. It's clear there is some aspects of Islam that is very wrong, especially how it's able to penetrate into the culture (thus muslim culture) so easily. Change and evolution is required and only the people that practice it can start the reform.

I hope, for the sake of the moderates you describe, they get the religious reform they deserve soon.

 

[Volimar]

Not that I think flag burning should be illegal at all but that is not the same as a cartoon mocking Mohammed I think. That would be like wanting to punish those who do cartoons which have a flag burning more than an actual physical flag burning.

I wasn't equating the two, just was reminded of when a lot of americans wanted people to be punished for committing what they felt was a crime against their beliefs.

 

[Denton]

This breaks my heart.

From Adrian Chmielarz's twitter:
https://twitter.com/adrianchm

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

some of the shit I'm seeing makes me really glad I have 2 really nice Muslim coworkers. It makes drawing direct comparisons for arguments with assholes much easier

 

[Zaph]

Well, when Channel 4 commissioned NOP to poll UK muslims back in '06, this was the result:



Obviously 'prosecuted' doesn't mean 'executed', but the attitude towards free speech is quite clear.

From here

Yup. Maajid Nawaz was on Sky News earlier. He said that even among moderates, certain attitudes need to be change as they plant the seed for extremism, namely blasphemy.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

I don't agree with Holocaust denial being illegal, such stupid ideas should be subject to ridicule and criticism just like anything else, but there is a clear difference between denying historical fact and having the right to criticise and mock a religion.

And that difference is what exactly? I'm not seeing such a clear difference between denying a fact and being insulting to warrant banning one but not the other, especially when banning the other would stem terrorism like this.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpeIS25jhK4

Oh yes, keep bringing these people to Europe. We need them to build a rich, beautiful and prosper future ^_^

You do know that this group was filled with people from the Norwegian extremist group Profetens Ummah which thousands of Norwegian muslims stands against?

Oh.

 

[Tugatrix]

This breaks my heart.

Oh man nailed it, but it's kind of morbid to laugh about it

 

[Maninthemirror]

Yup. Maajid Nawaz was on Sky News earlier. He said that even among moderates, certain attitudes need to be change as they plant the seed for extremism, namely blasphemy.

Blasphemy is a ultra conservative addition, its nowhere near moderate.

 

[Alx]

I really hope they get them.
What the French should do with them I will leave it in my mind but these people don't deserve to be treated like normal criminals.

Hopefully they'll be caught alive, but the GIGN is a bit drastic when facing armed resistance. Most of their interventions against armed people end up with their target killed. :/
(Mohammed Merah, Khaled Kelkal, those guys who hijacked a plane in Marseille, another one who took hostages in a kindergarten,...)

 

[Zaph]

Spanish satyrical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:



It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

Outstanding.

Blasphemy is a ultra conservative addition, its nowhere near moderate.

Did you read the stats in Dave's link? Blasphemy is taken way too seriously by the majority of Muslims - which obviously must include moderates.

 

[mario_O]

This argument is true only if you think Islam originally is the islam of radicalists and moderates are a later addition

Well Muhammad was a warrior, conquerer. He had an army. He was no Jesuschrist. That's the example that many are following now.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

He did. It was in his statement

I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm just pissed off that this becomes a story here.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

If you dont see a difference in a country coming to a decision to pass a law for no other reason than because they believe it is the right thing to do vs. passing a law because fucking crazy people are demanding it then I dunno what to tell you. Not sure how you can interpret that as inconsistent.

Oh, I can see that difference, I just don't see why it matters when it would stem terrorism like this.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Spanish satyrical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:

It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

This breaks my heart.

From Adrian Chmielarz's twitter:
https://twitter.com/adrianchm

These and the earlier cartoon are incredible responses to this horrendous act.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I'm firmly in the left wing camp but if anything shits me about some of my fellow small L liberals it is their addiction to cultural relativism. Liberalism first and foremost is about individual liberty... freedom of speech and expression, freedom from violence, freedom from religious persecution etc.

Yet all that goes out the window for some because somewhere along the way they misconstrued criticism of ideas as somehow equating to an attack on the people expressing the ideas. And when the people expressing those ideas are from another race or culture, somehow it all gets misconstrued as racism as well. Ben Affleck I am looking at you, you insufferable douchebag.

Thus Islam finds itself on a pedestal among some western liberals. We are welcome to criticise Christianity (and believe me, I do) but we have to sit by while a father in Iran cuts open the forehead of his infant son with a machete as a bloody tribute to Allah, Egyptian infant girls have their clitoris sawn off, 9 year old Saudi child brides are defiled, women are stoned to death without trial merely for having an affair, and western journalists/artists/cartoonists are slaughtered because they drew a ******* picture. We are expected to sit here and say "oh but you need to interpret it all through their cultural lens...".

Stupid ideas deserve ridicule. And like all Monotheistic (and other) religions, Islam has plenty of stupid goddamn ideas.

You aren't a liberal. You're a bigoted douchebag.

 

[DrForester]

Spanish satyrical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:



It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

That sad and hilarious at the same time.

 

[Abounder]

The goal is elimation of religion as it is. Reform needs to come to those off shoots radicals not the moderates. the flaw in the argument that Rushdi has is that moderates should reform themselves to make their religion irrelevant, the argument is framed in a way that radicalists are what true religion is and moderates are what came later. its the opposite. This is the the difference between the 2 sides. Moderates and Radicalists/Islamophobes. Moderates see original islam as their islam and radicalists and islamophobes see radical islam as original islam

Rushdie's quote is about defending freedom of expression against terrorists ("deadly mutation...modern weaponry...totalitarianism...tragic consequences"), and how religions are just ideas and like all ideas they deserve to be shit on without fear (last line)

Can you show where you get your perspective from using the words from the quote, or is it tangential?

 

[Alienous]

This is so saddening.

 

[params7]

Spanish satyrical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:



It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

"I had never realized how cool Islam is and how much I like it", said the editor writing these lines.

Lost my shit there lol..Ya this is what the writers who died today wanted. No guilt in finding this amusing.

 

[Denton]

Oh man nailed it, but it's kind of morbid to laugh about it

I find the comic heartbreaking too, not funny at all

These and the earlier cartoon are incredible responses to this horrendous act.

I don't think they are meant to be funny. At least I don't find it to be.

 

[Head of Vengarl]

Absolutely horrible. That one cartoon showing the bullets going through the building and into the mosque is spot on. Everyone loses when this kind of shit happens.

Oh man nailed it, but it's kind of morbid to laugh about it

Maybe it's wrong to speak for the dead, but I bet they would have loved these satirical responses.

 

[SolidusDave]

The killers looked very experienced from their body language. I think they're done and just figuring out how to not get caught. They need to get caught before they escape the country.

The only reason to escape can be to plan more attacks.
I mean, especially these kind of people with those crazy beliefs died more than happily in the past. Yet they took care that they can't even be identified.

Unless it's part of some deal to gain higher positions within certain organizations?

 

[Ahasverus]

Yeah fuuuck muslims terrorists, measures should be taken. They have no place in the modern world. Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence. Fuck everything, this shouldn't happen. I say every newspaper draws Mohammed in their first page, because fuck silence. YesI'm pissed.

 

[Lime]

People's reactions to this scare me. A lot.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Yeah fuuuck muslims terrorists, measures should be taken. They have no place in the modern world. Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence. Fuck everything, this shouldn't happen. I say every newspaper draws Mohammed in their first page, because fuck silence. YesI'm pissed.

There have been multiple condemnations from Muslim groups.

 

[LNBL]

Yeah fuuuck muslims terrorists, measures should be taken. They have no place in the modern world. Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence. Fuck everything, this shouldn't happen. I say every newspaper draws Mohammed in their first page, because fuck silence. YesI'm pissed.

You not knowing about the protest of "normal" muslims, does not mean they are silent.

 

[Owzers]

He did. It was in his statement

Who cares what he said, they are going on and on about Obama not calling it terrorism.

 

[chadskin]

People gather in support of Charlie Hebdo on the Pariser Platz (Paris Square) in front of the Brandenburg Gate and the French embassy

via https://twitter.com/wensierski/status/552873608650170369

 

[motorised mallard]

Religion has its benefits but they're usually things like community that you can have without it anyway.

Then why do you give religion any credit at all? It's a middleman that isn't needed.

 

[Grug]

You aren't a liberal. You're a bigoted douchebag.

Thanks for such a thorough, incisive and substantiated rebuttal.

Seriously though, which part/s did you find so objectionable? Try and preserve context if possible.

 

[m_shortpants]

Yeah fuuuck muslims terrorists, measures should be taken. They have no place in the modern world. Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence. Fuck everything, this shouldn't happen. I say every newspaper draws Mohammed in their first page, because fuck silence. YesI'm pissed.

There is plenty of condemnation from "normal Muslims". Just because it isn't being shown to you (gee, I wonder why?) doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

 

[Mael]

WTF!
I have no word.

 

[Maintenance]

Damn that video with the security guard, those guys knew what they were doing.

 

[ComputerMKII]

What Is Charlie Hebdo? The Cartoons that Made the French Paper Infamous

 

[Bedlam]

they should all join my sect http://www.alislam.org/introduction/ (shamles plug) but we exist in 10s of million (more than radicalists)

This posts deserves more attention than it will get.

 

[His Majesty]

Yeah fuuuck muslims terrorists, measures should be taken. They have no place in the modern world. Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence. Fuck everything, this shouldn't happen. I say every newspaper draws Mohammed in their first page, because fuck silence. YesI'm pissed.

A lot of moderate muslim communities are condemning the attack.

 

[Ahasverus]

There is plenty of condemnation from "normal Muslims". Just because it isn't being shown to you (gee, I wonder why?) doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

You not knowing about the protest of "normal" muslims, does not mean they are silent.

There have been multiple condemnations from Muslim groups.

I'll take your word for this. I hope this is the case. The media silence is astounding.

 

[superdeluxe]

any good english streams covering this?

 

[ConanTheKing]

Then why do you give religion any credit at all? It's a middleman that isn't needed.

Religion is a form of philosophy and to disregard philosophy so casually is a shame in my opinion.

 

[Funky Papa]

That sad and hilarious at the same time.

Being positive, I think they would have loved it.

 

[Sayter]

Spanish satirical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:



It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

Good for them.

 

[Ol No Bones]

You aren't a liberal. You're a bigoted douchebag.

You totally proved his point. I'm not sure if that was lost on you or not lol.

 

[Alienous]

I find the comic heartbreaking too, not funny at all



I don't think they are meant to be funny. At least I don't find it to be.

They're meant to highlight the inherent illogical nature of these heinous acts. They can be simultaneously tragic and 'funny', in the sense that you might smirk at the sheer madness that such a vile act could be committed for such a weak justification. I think it's a way of coping with the insanity of it, more than anything.

 

[Kabouter]

Religion has its benefits but they're usually things like community that you can have without it anyway.

Maybe you can, but that's certainly not how things have changed here best I can tell. I don't see anything that has replaced the community role that Christianity used to play here. Now, some might not consider it a big loss, but that's another matter entirely.

 

[Messofanego]

Good to hear of the many muslim countries and authorities condemning this terrorist attack, even if the exact identity of the terrorists hasn't been revealed (but could be muslims since the controversies from that magazine that have gone public are islam related).

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I don't think they are meant to be funny. At least I don't find it to be.

I haven't laughed at a single one, I just find them to be incredible responses to a horrendous act that also shows they aren't afraid of what's happened and won't be silenced.