Yes or even the threat of them ala The Interview being dropped by major movie theater chains in the US, and Comedy Central censoring South Park
Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Yes or even the threat of them ala The Interview being dropped by major movie theater chains in the US, and Comedy Central censoring South Park
Hasn't france been pretty, not too good, to its muslim population as a whole? These people don't realize this will make things worse for everyone. They can't solve their problems with shooting things to death. America has been trying it for decades, it just doesn't work.
There is no Islam religion (same for Christianity).
These religions don't have a fixed ruleset, because they are based on books that get interpreted. And interpretation leads to different conclusions.
Its this frame of mind that leads straight to extremism and intolerance.
When you start to prioritise religion over free speech and just having a fucking sense of humour. Your mind is already twisted.
Reminds me of the flag burning amendment movement in the US. It should go without saying that just because they think that people who violate their beliefs should be punished doesn't mean they wish them physical harm or death.
Moff
Member
Just saw this cartoon on Twitter, don't know if it has been posted yet.
I don't really agree with this, because it makes it look like the destruction of the mosque is unintentional. and that is certainly not the case. extremists on both sides need each other. and you can be sure as hell Le Pen will have troubles hiding her smile today.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
The point is religion should not be above Politics, and government when it comes to satire. If politicians, kings, and queens can be disrespected so can a religious figure.
Interesting. I'm not very knowledgeable about the whole history of Islam, but, if it hasn't had one already, it seems as if the religion is in good need of a Protestant Reformation of an Islamic sort. Same religion, more moderate beliefs to keep the conservative religion in check. Similar to how the Catholic church is kept in relative check by smaller epicopalian and protestant parishes do now, at least in America.
I would say the biggest number of deaths in the world in history haven't been due to any sort of war
Backfoggen
Banned
Murders over cartoons that a bunch of weakminded idiots couldn't stomach. Just tragic.
RIP to the victims.
RIP to the victims.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Admittedly I did assume most Muslims currently living in the UK, if this is wrong, then I apologize.
And I would also love to see the breakdown of that poll of Muslims born in the UK vs. Muslims who have immigrated.
Maninthemirror
Banned
This is why the cartoon is poignant. the attack is not shown coming out of mosque to attack this building, he is coming from away from the mosque to attack one and also attacking his own supposed faith
m_shortpants
Member
Most of these immigrants aren't exactly highly educated nor integrated well. I think there is probably a perceived sense of alienation from media and society which makes them identify as an "other" from the indigenous people of the countries they emigrate to. So when they are told they are different I think they take that and run with it. same reason why I think so many Europeans are going to join ISIS.
Flaw? Are we also not entitled to criticize and lampoon the causes of non-religious wars and attacks?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Islam needs to accept that other people can and will satirize Mohammed. There's a lot of talk about moderate muslims, but accepting and supporting everyone's freedom of speech should be a basic tenet of moderation.
That there is an anomalous situation regarding holocaust denial in germany does not give any footing to passing anti blasphemy laws.
Certainly most Muslims are not radicals who will kill for their religion but it is pretty undeniable that there are several underlying and fundamental incompatibilities between Western and Muslim culture.
Blackquill
Member
There were good with some things and pretty bad with others which led to poor integration (a lot of arabic and muslim people lives outside the city, separated from french people). And obviously, there is a lot racism going on here... But still, it doesn't justify any of these stupid acts of course.
Ironically, in most polls and surveys I've seen, immigrant Muslims tend to be more moderate than those born in Western countries.
Maninthemirror
Banned
well nothings perfect.
As distasteful as punishing creative expression is, I'm not about to assume that punishment means violence, especially when punishment isn't the word used in the original study and is instead intentionally vague language used by the president of an anti-immigration Libertarian think tank spun-off from one founded by the Koch brothers.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Probably because the immigrant muslims have seen what the shit can do.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Worst case scenario: The terrorists are still in Paris, go to the place de la République (where the peace protest is taking place) and commit another massacre :/
I sincerely hope this won't happen
I sincerely hope this won't happen
Just a window into the mindset of the shooters.. Not thinking ahead that this will make problems for the community worse, publicly. I don't know how it is to be a muslim in france, but I imagine people think that these guys represent some body of population, that will socially be treated poorly due to it.
I always fantasized of moving to france, as a black dude, in hopes that the racism isn't as bad as it is in the USA.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Really? That does come as a surprise. Learn something new every day, I guess.
That makes an awful lot of sense actually.
The place must be full with police i doubt they could do it.
hobblygobbly
Member
I feel like, every religion should be allowed in every society, so long as the people practicing it choose to obey the law. The solution isn't to single out religions and drive it out. Even if a religion has more problems than other religions (I don't know statistically if that's true, just saying as a concept).
Our laws should deal with it. If they are doing something that is illegal, then arrest them. If they start enacting violence, then arrest those people too. Keep going at THOSE people that are doing illegal things and don't let up. If someone wants to practice their religious values in peace, then by all means. But at the point that specific people no longer want to live in a society, and want to attack others, then I think a country has the right to defend itself (with military action if need be).
I guess that's just my thoughts on this. That the only way you can deal with any kind of violence (even if from a religion), is to treat it like any other crime (focusing on the individuals doing it).
But I could also be 100% wrong. The issue is terrorism. How do you deal with that? So I can understand people not wanting to risk their lives. That they don't feel they should have to, just to appease people. People know if they go after others with the law, then they risk kicking the bees nest (and things like todays incident happening). And the law can't really stop that. And then people become afraid, and don't want to do anything.
Our laws should deal with it. If they are doing something that is illegal, then arrest them. If they start enacting violence, then arrest those people too. Keep going at THOSE people that are doing illegal things and don't let up. If someone wants to practice their religious values in peace, then by all means. But at the point that specific people no longer want to live in a society, and want to attack others, then I think a country has the right to defend itself (with military action if need be).
I guess that's just my thoughts on this. That the only way you can deal with any kind of violence (even if from a religion), is to treat it like any other crime (focusing on the individuals doing it).
But I could also be 100% wrong. The issue is terrorism. How do you deal with that? So I can understand people not wanting to risk their lives. That they don't feel they should have to, just to appease people. People know if they go after others with the law, then they risk kicking the bees nest (and things like todays incident happening). And the law can't really stop that. And then people become afraid, and don't want to do anything.
It's easy to say that when you're on the outside looking in. I wonder, as an example, whether most of americanGAF thinks that cross burning by the kkk for instance should be protected speech.
There is probably a massive police & miltary presence in République right now, it won't happen.
ThaneKrios
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpeIS25jhK4
Oh yes, keep bringing these people to Europe. We need them to build a rich, beautiful and prosper future ^_^
Oh yes, keep bringing these people to Europe. We need them to build a rich, beautiful and prosper future ^_^
Maninthemirror
Banned
yes they should ignore, the more you ignore the cartoons the less publicity they get and the more cartoons come out. the biggest consumers of these cartoons came only after these radicals called these cartoonists out. Just imagine, if they hadnt threatened them, no one would know and it would be a flop campaign. Muslims need to ignore these cartoons because the more you feed it, the more they grow, rather radicals didnt ignore, the cartoons got bigger and the radicals reacted like they would.
But another question is the double standard of anti-semitism and anti-islamic cartoons.
DrGonzo615
Banned
If you dont see a difference in a country coming to a decision to pass a law for no other reason than because they believe it is the right thing to do vs. passing a law because fucking crazy people are demanding it then I dunno what to tell you. Not sure how you can interpret that as inconsistent.
Sigh. Maybe you should inform yourself before you write. No, not everything nazi related is banned in Germany, Inglorious Basterds still had nazi symbols and flags in it for example. The use for art, science, educational purposes and reporting is allowed. It's just that the laws are a bit outdated when it comes to videogames, as they don't fall into the art category. You can read that here.
Frustrated_me
Member
Exactly.
With modern day globalization the flaws of Islam (or any other religion) is easily seen. I think muslims don't do the religion favor when we they "There is nothing wrong with Islam, it's a religion of peace". I think that's just being lazy and taking the easy way out. It's clear there is some aspects of Islam that is very wrong, especially how it's able to penetrate into the culture (thus muslim culture) so easily. Change and evolution is required and only the people that practice it can start the reform.
Maninthemirror
Banned
This argument is true only if you think Islam originally is the islam of radicalists and moderates are a later addition
The killers looked very experienced from their body language. I think they're done and just figuring out how to not get caught. They need to get caught before they escape the country.
ComputerMKII
Banned
One interesting theory I've heard is that Islam is still a young religion - it's six centuries younger than Christianity and hasn't had its great reform yet. I'm far from a specialist, though.
Not that I think flag burning should be illegal at all but that is not the same as a cartoon mocking Mohammed I think. That would be like wanting to punish those who do cartoons which have a flag burning more than an actual physical flag burning.
No sane person should see any type of comic as worthy of punishing the artist.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
You are legit fucking insane. Who the fuck is going to give sympathy to the already discriminated against minority. Only liberal forums and places. Do you live in such a place? The ignorance in this comment makes me laugh. People can both mourn the situation and lament the bigger picture, which your ignorant ass is uncapable of.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Far right parties are on the rise in France, and these guys are just increasingly feeding into the rhetoric bigots spout in order to justify the persecution of all non western european whites.
These guys are making it way worse for Muslims and everybody that has to defend their right to practise their faith. Morons.
These guys are making it way worse for Muslims and everybody that has to defend their right to practise their faith. Morons.
You do know that this group was filled with people from the Norwegian extremist group Profetens Ummah which thousands of Norwegian muslims stands against?
Ziltoidia 9
Member
And of course, the right wing over in the US is talking about how obama didnt say terrorism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These are radicals. Logic isn't really hitting home with the group that is killing people. And normal muslims out number the % of radical ones. The Radical ones get the most press, for obvious reasons.
How can we target radical muslims, without overly broad rules of targeting that pinpoint radicals?
The problem is there can't be a great Islam upheaval and reformation, because everyone and their dog practices their own interpretation of it.
'My Islam is better than your Islam etc'
There is no winning here.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
UnrealEck
Member
It could be because they're extremely fundamentalist and that the scriptures of their religion commands them to kill anyone who's mocking the prophet.
There's very strict rules in Islam that tend to be taken absolutely literally. Fathers have even killed their own children for being with someone who is not of their religion. They believe they're being commanded by god to do these things.
Extreme fundamentalism is a problem when many religions have pretty horrid stuff in the scripture.
Religion has its benefits but they're usually things like community that you can have without it anyway.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
He did. It was in his statement
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