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[GreenRobot]

The Muslim community has always spoken out super vocally about things like this. I don't see this as a problem at all, and in anycase, when there are massacres of Palestinians in Israel as is quite common, do Jews have to apologize?

Do Christians have to apologize for Christian fundamentalists, Bush, starting wars in Iraq? Of course not.

Just as we do no generalize those people, it is racist to make only one exception.

 

[Kiraly]

Good to hear of the many muslim countries and authorities condemning this terrorist attack, even if the exact identity of the terrorists hasn't been revealed (but could be muslims since the controversies from that magazine that have gone public are islam related).

They were heard shouting Allah is great.

 

[commedieu]

Thanks for such a thorough rebuttal.

Ben Afleck was upset because Mar and the other person were saying 100% of muslims are X way. They are all just puppets to stir up anti-islam feelings in the population. That night, Ben was on the least douchiest side. Its exactly what the problem is with Americans. 1 speaks for the whole. Their logic applies to the feelings towards the african american population as well. In a not so direct way, but it supports the idea behind Mayor Guliani's statement about why the blacks dont' seem upset at black on black crime. If you're taking that as him being a douche bag, well. Thats a strange conclusion. Christianity, around the world, is still participating in female circumcision. In africa specifically. To hold things accountable that Christians are still doing, is a bizarre disconnect to the point you're making. I don't think you have to stand by and do anything. You take the whole picture for what it is.

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry. Picking and choosing the worst parts, that are still happening in christian ministries, is _____?

The Muslim community has always spoken out super vocally about things like this. I don't see this as a problem at all, and in anycase, when there are massacres of Palestinians in Israel as is quite common, do Jews have to apologize?

Do Christians have to apologize for Christian fundamentalists, Bush, starting wars in Iraq? Of course not.

Just as we do no generalize those people, it is racist to make only one exception.

Such an incredible point. Which will be muddied in the waters of trying to make Muslims that much more worse.

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Would this attack enough to shut down Charlie Hebdo?

Hopefully it won't

 

[Opiate]

And that difference is what exactly? I'm not seeing such a clear difference between denying a fact and being insulting to warrant banning one but not the other, especially when banning the other would stem terrorism like this.

Let's say I believe wearing hats (of any kind) is deeply offensive, and my religion says that anyone who wears a hat must die. Should you -- and everyone in your society -- oblige me, just because I have a belief based on nothing but faith?

Conversely, consider this example: blacks in America believe they are being unfairly discriminated against, and pretty consistently fight for better treatment. Well, it turns out they're right; they are systematically discriminated against. That's pretty important to whether I support their cause, don't you think? If the evidence showed that black people were not discriminated against in any way -- if, for instance, we found that black people had no more trouble getting jobs, no more trouble than other races with the justice system, no more trouble getting housing -- then I think a reasonable person would say "No, this is all in your head, we aren't going to support your movement just because you feel discriminated against. You have to actually be discriminated against."

Generally, we require people have a reasonable foundation for being offended before we oblige them.

 

[fwoibles]

The head of the german political party "The Party", formerly chief editor of the satire magazine "Titanic" just wrote on facebook "This could have never happened to us. We are only six in the office."

There is more about feeling for the sad state of things but I found this hilarious.

 

[Funky Papa]

The head of the german "The Party", formerly chief editor of the satire magazine "Titanic" just wrote on facebook "This could have never happened to us. We are only six in the office."

There is more but about feeling for the sad state of things but I found this hilarious.

That's amazing.

 

[liger05]

Would this attack enough to shut down Charlie Hebdo?

Hopefully it won't

I wouldn't think so but does it spook other cartoonists into not mocking the Prophet Muhammad?

This was no gun rampage. They had a list of specific targets while the other staff were free to go.

 

[Grug]

You totally proved his point. I'm not sure if that was lost on you or not lol.

Thank you for this post. Glad you got what I was trying to say,

I was wondering if I had left my post in a position to be misinterpreted - but I went back to edit it and realised it really didn't need any.

My point seemed pretty clear - cultural relativism has its applications, but at some stage, in situations like we saw today in Paris, any true liberal has to have a point where they say "enough!" or they put themselves in a position where they have to abandon some of the fundamental principles of liberalism.

 

[GreenRobot]

Ben Afleck was upset because Mar and the other person were saying 100% of muslims are X way. They are all just puppets to stir up anti-islam feelings in the population. That night, Ben was on the least douchiest side. Its exactly what the problem is with Americans. 1 speaks for the whole. Their logic applies to the feelings towards the african american population as well. In a not so direct way, but it supports the idea behind Mayor Guliani's statement about why the blacks dont' seem upset at black on black crime. If you're taking that as him being a douche bag, well. Thats a strange


conclusion. Christianity, around the world, is still participating in female circumcision. In africa specifically. To hold things accountable that Christians are still doing, is a bizarre disconnect to the point you're making. I don't think you have to stand by and do anything. You take the whole picture for what it is.

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry. Picking and choosing the worst parts, that are still happening in christian ministries, is _____?

Yes, exactly. Maher has said many racist things in the past, like flat out bigoted against Arab people. He has always harbored bigotry, he has no credibility. What he says goes beyond simple critique of religion.

And he does not appear to critique other religon and gross violations in the same way. You know what is racist? Only having eyes for crime committed by one group.

 

[motorised mallard]

Religion is a form of philosophy and to disregard philosophy so casually is a shame in my opinion.

That "philosophy" is the reason why parents kill their children, mutilate them, kick their children out of their homes because they don't follow some ancient rules, people bomb buildings because of it. The list is long.

Mind explaining why I shouldn't disregard it so casually?

 

[Jackpot]

I'll take your word for this. I hope this is the case. The media silence is astounding.

How about doing your own research before you blame millions of innocent people for this massacre? *smh*

 

[HoosTrax]

Sky News reporter dropped some rare truth on air:

"The media organisations, including ourselves, while we're publishing pictures of murder scenes, we're not publishing the images that provoked it. So there is an effect. The terrorists have been encouraged by the fact they can scare the media away from addressing certain subjects".

Dan Hodges, the Telegraph:

Just before I stared this piece I was about to tweet the picture of the cartoon of the prophet Muhammad published by the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo. I was going to do it “in solidarity”. And then I stopped. I stopped because I was scared.
.
.
.
I wish we could. When I’d revealed I’d deleted my tweet containing that cartoon, a number of people responded by calling me a coward. “You’ve just given in to them”, someone said.
They’re right. I am a coward. I have given in. Before today I also believed the pen was mightier than the sword. But I was wrong.

 

[Ikael]

This is a debate where cooler heads ought to prevail, but seriously, the problem is not the tiny fraction of murderers, nor their idiotic sympatizers (which are rightfully shunned by the wider muslim community), but more broadly, the ones that "understands the sentiment".

Violent or not, you cannot seriously pretend to believe that introducing a popullation that it is ok with criminalizing blasmphemy and apostasy inside a modern society will not create any kind of problems. Of course it will. I don't know what is the solution to this situation, but our left wing "head in the sand" strategy isn't working, and I am pretty damn sure that voting for far-right wing parties aren't the solution either.

Spanish satirical newspaper El Mundo Today (think The Onion) just went ALL IN with a "breaking news" article. Quick translation:

It's good to see that not all media is content with censoring Charlie Hebdo's cartoons. We need more of this.

El Mundo Today, doing God's (or Allah's) work, as always.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

That's amazing.

I'm hoping the Onion does something
They did that famous "No one ever died from this picture" with Moses, Jesus, Krishna and Buddha having sex after the last cartoon controversy.

And I don't even know if MAD still exists.

 

[Jb]

I just want these fuckers to be caught.
You just can't slaughter a dozen people in the heart of Paris and get away with it.
The message it would send to the losers who are considering joining AQ or daesh would be horrible.

 

[Cat Party]

I don't think local Muslims have an obligation to denounce every attack by people who may be affiliated with the religion. It contributes to the bullshit assumption in much of western culture that all Muslims are potentially terrorist sympathizers. It should go without saying that they don't support these attacks.

 

[fanboi]

The fact that these guys are still at large blows my mind. Say what you want about the police militarization in the US but they would never make it this far here.

Ahem, http://uk.businessinsider.com/cops-...ng-out-in-pennsylvania-mountains-2014-10?r=US ?

 

[HariKari]

Dan Hodges, the Telegraph:

From that article:

If one way of stopping obscenities like today is providing the security services a bit more access to our e-mails, we must give it to them. If it means internet providers handing over their records, the records must be handed over. If it means newspapers showing restraint the next time an Edward Snowden knocks on their door, then restraint will have to be shown. Because look who came knocking at the door today.

Pretty disgusting.

 

[dakun]

so after this news i went ahead and posted the comics on my facebook account where part of my family that lives in Turkey are friends with me.

So yeah i got called an infidel and others told me not to come back there and that i'm not invited into their houses anymore..

i feel better now knowing which family members i wouldn't want to be with anyway. Don't get me wrong i fully knew what i was getting myself into when i posted them "out of protest". Except for very close family i never revealed my atheism to anybody. Now they know. And I'm free of hiding.

 

[Funky Papa]

From that article:



Pretty disgusting.

I knew some cowardly fuck would dare to pull that.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Oh man nailed it, but it's kind of morbid to laugh about it

I'm pretty sure the journalists who have been killed would have loved it themselves. Laughing at such cartoons is a way of perpetuating their spirit, in my opinion.

 

[Crayons]

They’re right. I am a coward. I have given in. Before today I also believed the pen was mightier than the sword. But I was wrong.

;/

I can't believe this.

Every one of these fuckers should be caught and imprisoned for the rest of their worthless lives.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Ben Afleck was upset because Mar and the other person were saying 100% of muslims are X way. They are all just puppets to stir up anti-islam feelings in the population. That night, Ben was on the least douchiest side. Its exactly what the problem is with Americans. 1 speaks for the whole. Their logic applies to the feelings towards the african american population as well. In a not so direct way, but it supports the idea behind Mayor Guliani's statement about why the blacks dont' seem upset at black on black crime. If you're taking that as him being a douche bag, well. Thats a strange conclusion. Christianity, around the world, is still participating in female circumcision. In africa specifically. To hold things accountable that Christians are still doing, is a bizarre disconnect to the point you're making. I don't think you have to stand by and do anything. You take the whole picture for what it is.

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry. Picking and choosing the worst parts, that are still happening in christian ministries, is _____?



Such an incredible point. Which will be muddied in the waters of trying to make Muslims that much more worse.

That is not what Bill maher was saying, he was saying that many people just say it's just a small minority in the muslim community that believe certain things. He pointed out some polls that say the opposite and then Ben Affleck got really upset instead of discussing points that Bill brought up.

I think it's funny that Bill Maher was the same guy who got kicked off ABC for saying the 9/11 hijackers weren't cowardly.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I don't think local Muslims have an obligation to denounce every attack by people who may be affiliated with the religion. It contributes to the bullshit assumption in much of western culture that all Muslims are potentially terrorist sympathizers. It should go without saying that they don't support these attacks.

Lots of these organizations attacked or criticized the magazine for its critique of Islam and the Prophet.

Its more than just "ok what do the muslims think" that and organizations of all religions usually issue condemnations of these attacks. I'm sure the Vatican, protestant churches and jewish groups will issue statements as well

 

[ComputerMKII]

Hopefully they'll be caught alive, but the GIGN is a bit drastic when facing armed resistance. Most of their interventions against armed people end up with their target killed. :/
(Mohammed Merah, Khaled Kelkal, those guys who hijacked a plane in Marseille, another one who took hostages in a kindergarten,...)

When you're facing heavily armed terrorists who know perfectly what they are doing and have shown no will to surrender, you don't try to get them alive. You shoot to kill. If the special forces manage to smoke those bastards I might even get myself some Champagne.

If you can catch an aggressor alive without taking any risk, then by all means do it.

Otherwise, too bad and take no prisoners.

 

[RK9039]

Also fuck the "normal" muslim community silence. If a christian did this I'm sure the pope/priests would apologize and publicly condemn, instead we get this silence.

ELM made a post earlier.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

so after this news and went ahead and posted the comics on my facebook account where part of my family that lives in Turkey are friends with me.

So yeah i got called an infidel and others told me not to come back their and that i'm not invited into their houses anymore..

i feel better now knowing which family members i wouldn't want to be with anyway. Don't get me wrong i fully knew what i was getting myself into when i posted them "out of protest". Except for very close family i never revealed my atheism to anybody. Now they know. And I'm free of hiding.

Wow, fuck those members of your family.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Would this attack enough to shut down Charlie Hebdo?

Hopefully it won't

These attacks make me want to read it. Do they sell internationally?

 

[ConanTheKing]

That "philosophy" is the reason why parents kill their children, mutilate them, kick their children out of their homes because they don't follow some ancient rules, people bomb buildings because of it. The list is long.

Mind explaining why I shouldn't disregard it so casually?

Because I am religious, I like to believe in God yet I do not do those things. It stems from intolerance like other forms of discrimination.

I do not force my view onto others and don't like people forcing their view onto me that I should not have those beliefs (Not saying YOU are saying that, but I've come across others that have.). Growing up in London, I have had many Muslim friends, they never freaked out if I ate bacon next to them, they never randomly killed people and some of them even crack jokes about their own culture, in my personal experiences I've only met good Muslims who never had an issue about me having a different belief than them.

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

Fucking cowards. The way they put down that police officer man

So sad. I'd give anything to have the ability go all Iron Man on these fucking ISIS pussies.

 

[Marauder Shields]

so after this news and went ahead and posted the comics on my facebook account where part of my family that lives in Turkey are friends with me.

So yeah i got called an infidel and others told me not to come back their and that i'm not invited into their houses anymore..

i feel better now knowing which family members i wouldn't want to be with anyway. Don't get me wrong i fully knew what i was getting myself into when i posted them "out of protest". Except for very close family i never revealed my atheism to anybody. Now they know. And I'm free of hiding.

Good to hear. You made the right choice.

 

[Maxim726X]

Ben Afleck was upset because Mar and the other person were saying 100% of muslims are X way. They are all just puppets to stir up anti-islam feelings in the population. That night, Ben was on the least douchiest side. Its exactly what the problem is with Americans. 1 speaks for the whole. Their logic applies to the feelings towards the african american population as well. In a not so direct way, but it supports the idea behind Mayor Guliani's statement about why the blacks dont' seem upset at black on black crime. If you're taking that as him being a douche bag, well. Thats a strange conclusion. Christianity, around the world, is still participating in female circumcision. In africa specifically. To hold things accountable that Christians are still doing, is a bizarre disconnect to the point you're making. I don't think you have to stand by and do anything. You take the whole picture for what it is.

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry. Picking and choosing the worst parts, that are still happening in christian ministries, is _____?

I mean, did you even watch the segment? Neither of them, once, painted every Muslim in one stroke. I really am amazed at responses like this... Harris presented statistical evidence supporting the claim that radicalized beliefs are more widespread than usually argued. Neither ever said, once, that 100% of Muslims fall under that category. Their point was, once again, that when the majority of Muslims polled believe that the proper punishment for apostasy is death, that's a real fucking problem. They're not making some boogey man, and bullshit strawman arguments like this aren't advancing the discussion.

 

[HK-47]

From that article:



Pretty disgusting.

I dont believe someone like this ever thought the pen was mightier than the sword.

 

[Palette Swap]

People's reactions to this scare me. A lot.

Take solace in knowing that here, people have started spontaneously gathering everywhere in the country and in a non-hateful way. My wife just sent me a picture of the one she's at and it looks pretty fucking huge.

I'm 35, I grew up seeing or reading some of these guys, they were monuments of very liberal satire, straight from the seventies and my parents' generation, and I know they didn't stand for hatred or anger, they stood for radical freedom from everything, they stood for mocking anything and everything. I'm rambling because I'm absolutely devastated but my point is that on top of this incredibly appealing shit, I'd hate that these super leftist guys died so that angry conservative douches could score more points.

 

[chadskin]

Would this attack enough to shut down Charlie Hebdo?

Hopefully it won't

Radio France, Le Monde and France Télévisions have put out a statement saying they will offer staff and other support to help the Charlie Hebdo magazine “continue to live”.

They invite all French media to do the same, “to defend the principles of independence, freedom of thought and expression, the guarantors of our democracy”.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-charlie-hebdo#block-54ad6557e4b0461a99f1376b

 

[DrGonzo615]

Yes, exactly. Maher has said many racist things in the past, like flat out bigoted against Arab people. He has always harbored bigotry, he has no credibility. What he says goes beyond simple critique of religion.

And he does not appear to critique other religon and gross violations in the same way. You know what is racist? Only having eyes for crime committed by one group.

lol you know he has a movie trashing all religion right?

 

[Ol No Bones]

Ben Afleck was upset because Mar and the other person were saying 100% of muslims are X way. They are all just puppets to stir up anti-islam feelings in the population. That night, Ben was on the least douchiest side. Its exactly what the problem is with Americans. 1 speaks for the whole. Their logic applies to the feelings towards the african american population as well. In a not so direct way, but it supports the idea behind Mayor Guliani's statement about why the blacks dont' seem upset at black on black crime. If you're taking that as him being a douche bag, well. Thats a strange


conclusion. Christianity, around the world, is still participating in female circumcision. In africa specifically. To hold things accountable that Christians are still doing, is a bizarre disconnect to the point you're making. I don't think you have to stand by and do anything. You take the whole picture for what it is.

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry. Picking and choosing the worst parts, that are still happening in christian ministries, is _____?

That isn't what they said at all. Ben Affleck was trying to silence any criticism of Islam because he deemed it racist. Maher was was only trying to say that evil behaviors perpetrated by extremists are more closely related to Islam than many liberals are willing to admit. To Ben Affleck and many liberals in here that talk is absolutely racist and off limits. Its childish. I remember people praising Ben on here while I was left thinking what a child Ben was for not being able to talk about or debate this. Instead he just raised his voice and threw out attacks on Maher himself.

 

[esms]

From that article:



Pretty disgusting.

Ben Franklin liberty for security quote, yadda, yadda. Its like these motherfuckers never learn.

 

[spekkeh]

Claiming that Islam is inherently bad, is bigotry.

That's a ridiculous proposition.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Good to hear of the many muslim countries and authorities condemning this terrorist attack, even if the exact identity of the terrorists hasn't been revealed (but could be muslims since the controversies from that magazine that have gone public are islam related).

I was never a fan of apologies before all the facts have been revealed. If it turns out that it's anyone other than muslims who did the killing to make it seem like it was someone of muslim faith (imo, it probably is, but devil's advocate).

I will say that this will only give these anti-muslim marches in Europe now legitimacy. They don't want what happened here happening in their own country.

 

[Frodo]

This is vile. A satire being more important then human lives.

 

[Paasei]

Religion of peace strikes again.... :')

Spoiler

For me that smiley means how disgusting, sad, lame, dumb, stupid, retarded and everything else that you can add to this I find/define something.
That there just isn't a way to think "right" about something, just speechless.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I guess that this just proves that "Prophet" Mohammed was a worthless clown after all.

 

[ComputerMKII]

People gather in support of Charlie Hebdo on the Pariser Platz (Paris Square) in front of the Brandenburg Gate and the French embassy

via https://twitter.com/wensierski/status/552873608650170369

Danke schön, Deutschland!

 

[moggio]

ELM made a post earlier.

Pity about some of the nutters in the comments.

 

[Irminsul]

Nobody is going to show them. The dirty secret is that excessively violent repercussions can sometimes work.

Tomorrow's front page of the Berlin-based newspaper Tagesspiegel:

That's at least something.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Would this attack enough to shut down Charlie Hebdo?

Hopefully it won't

On one hand I bet they'll continue and I do get that freedom is not free, but on the other hand, is it really worth the risk endangering yourself or your family? Things have gone extremely far, now, maybe too far.

 

[Guy.brush]

[..] Also, your terrible analogies continue as you're somehow trying to say that the west doesn't have an influence in islamic culture, which is laughable.

There is an angle to Islam that is definitely very archaic (like Christian Old Testament is) and built towards giving men power over women. It depends on which country you pick as an example aka how far down the slope you go but there is everything from hiding women behind layers of cloth, not letting them drive cars, not letting them work, not letting them vote or choose in general. That itself means that it is ultra difficult for what amounts to 50% of all believers in Islam to mount a reformation. Where should a reformation from the inside come from?
I agree that the West is to blame for a lot of recent aggression in the core regions where Islam was born, but the West cannot be blamed for the underlying suppression of women that is inherent in being a "hardcore" follower of the religion.

Not to say Islam is the only religion that tried that. There are certain fundamentalist Christians that also want to have their wifes stay at home, have the children homeschooled, etc, but this is a fringe minority.

 

[Brazil]

Religion is a form of philosophy and to disregard philosophy so casually is a shame in my opinion.

What you just said is abhorrently wrong. Religion isn't a form of philosophy. Religion is literally the opposite of philosophy.