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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified

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S

Stereogatari

Banned
kmax said:
Well, if you're going to apply that kind of logic, you might as well apply it to all religions.
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Oh no doubt. If this criteria was applied to every religion worldwide then the oft-quoted statistics about number of Christians or Muslims in the world would be far, far less than they are.
 
E

El Topo

Member
The new Titanic cover. Wow. They were not kidding about answering with more satire, although I personally don't like jokes about religion.
 
J

Jb

Member
Le Monde says the police has identified the terrorists. Hopefully they'll be under arrest or dead soon.
 
Y

You Are Viewtiful

Member
liger05 said:
Should there be?
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For that to happen there would have to be agreement that writing satirical cartoons about the Prophet are okay, which there isn't. Besides, there are terrorist attacks daily in places like Iraq and Syria or the attack that happened in Pakistan a few weeks ago, those are way more pressing than an isolated attack in France. Regional context is important.
 
G

GalacticSushiman

Member
keit4 said:
Meanwhile at some place in France, Marine Le Pen is rubbing his hands.
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her hands, she's a she.

And yes, she is probably working on that 'I told you so' despicable speech she will give when given the opportunity.

I am sick just thinking about how the enemies of Charlie will exploit this.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
GameGuru59 said:
Nobody said there's a hive mind, and there are tons of people (including Maher) who abhor the invasion of Iraq but seek to criticize some pervasive trends within the religion itself. That doesn't mean everybody in the religion is the devil. By the way, you're doing the exact same thing Maher is doing when you say the "the Western World has double standards." I actually agree with that. But how is that any different from what Maher is doing?
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Resident_UA said:
I know that the odds are stacked against Muslims, but there are ways to be louder. There are a lot of Muslims in Paris, why can't they be on the street with slogans against ISIS?
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So now we are moving along. Originally, "Great message Maher, muslims don't speak out!" Now we are onto, "well, they don't speak out enough for me to personally approve what they are doing." Fact is it is happening, whether or not it gains traction is one thing. We know how media works, if we are being honest with one another. Its not newsworthy, at all. But it is in fact happening. The muslim population is gigantic, and probably as faceted as christianity ( I don't know, I'm assuming due to the different sects ), this doesn't provide for an opportunity for you to personally be appeased with muslims as a super organism officially announcing 1 message.

if you are into news, other than government controlled media, you can see people that are absolutely fucking disgusted. Even here on GAF. These are all voices that should be combined as a rationale, instead, they aren't given credit for being an official messenger.




How should muslims, worldwide, respond, to make people like yourself feel that they are actually upset at the loss of human life? Instead of the assumption that muslims have no feelings or emotions? We can't assume that with muslims as they are different than you or I. Loss of life fucking blows, and its universal. What is different that the muslim community? So what do they need to officially do to appease people that condemn the millions of muslim populations around the world for not holding up signs that say isis is bad?

What are americans doing about Christian Ministries promoting Female circumcision in Africa? WAR WAR WAR, or.. "Well, its just some bad oranges here..."
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Corronchilejano said:
What double standard?
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being careful not to OFFEND by criticizing the clerical dogmatic and misogynistic aspects of Islam or not being allowed to draw a cartoon on the Prophet

We are open to be critical towards the Vatican on wide variety of scandals and crimes.

But watchout!!!! you cannot make a funny cartoon depicted the Prophet oooohhhh Double Standard
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
RustyNails said:
Ok dude, what about the million other posts where Muslims are condemning these attacks? Of course, xbashkarx starts wagging his tail at the slightest chance to condemn Islam and do drive-by sniping.
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Sorry but merely condemning mass murder isn't good enough. That is the bare minimum to not be considered complete fucking scum.

"Wow they don't think innocent people should be massacred, how magnanimous of them!!"

4mxn3DP.png


Anything short of that is victim blaming.

"I condemn rape but if you're wearing a short skirt in the middle of the night bad things might happen..."\

Edit:
Angry Fork said:
People who pretend to condemn attacks but then simultaneously victim-blame by basically saying cartoonists "bring it on" by offending muslims, not being more sensitive to religious feelings, and so on. Many people did this during the danish cartoon situation.
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.
 
R

Raist

Banned
Squirrel Killer said:
Why in France does the Press Law of 1881 (which according to a random Google search tell me criminalizes incitement to racial discrimination, hatred, or violence on the basis of one's origin or membership (or non-membership) in an ethic, national, racial, or religious group) not apply to cartoonists inciting racial hatred by drawing insulting cartoons of Muhammad?
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Because satire isn't diffamation neither is it incitation to racial hatred.
 
RoadHazard

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Maninthemirror said:
Did you read?

I gave two options

1. Are they following their faith (Islam)
2. Are they distorting their faith (Islam)

No one has a monopoly on the faith but you suggested the radicalists were following Islam thus saying they were doing what Islam says. What do you think the Moderates are doing? Distorting Islam? lol

Both Moderates and Radicals cant be following what Islam says when both are completely different ways to live life based on Islam.
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The issue is that there's no fucking way to form a single interpretation that makes sense, and that goes for all the Abrahamic religions (and probably most others as well). You have to pick and choose which parts you're gonna follow and which you're gonna pretend don't exist, in order to try to come up with something that isn't too ridiculously self-contradicting (which is impossible). So the majority throw away the really horrible parts of the texts and pick the stuff that sounds better, while these guys clearly don't. Who are right? Neither option can be the "true" Islam/Christianity/whatever, because such a thing really isn't possible. So the answer is that they're all wrong (EUREKA!).
 
R

Resident_UA

Member
commedieu said:
How should muslims, worldwide, respond, to make people like yourself feel that they are actually upset at the loss of human life?
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That's the thing. They shouldn't just be upset about a loss of human life. They should be upset that their religion is being exploited as a tool to kill people. That's much larger problem that needs to be dealt with.
 
M

Maninthemirror

Banned
RoadHazard said:
The issue is that there's no fucking way to form a single interpretation that makes sense, and that goes for all the Abrahamic religions (and probably most others as well). You have to pick and choose which parts you're gonna follow and which you're gonna pretend don't exist, in order to try to come up with something that isn't too ridiculously self-contradicting (which is impossible). So the majority throws away the really horrible parts of the texts and picks the stuff that sounds better, while these guys clearly don't. Who are right? Neither option can be the "true" Islam/Christianity/whatever, because such a thing really isn't possible. So the answer is that they're all wrong (DUH!).
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If you dont want to side with the moderate argument and proofs with context that their interpretation is logically correct, at least which interpretation of the two would you rather have in place?
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
Corronchilejano said:
What double standard?
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People who pretend to condemn attacks but then simultaneously victim-blame by basically saying cartoonists "bring it on" by offending muslims, not being more sensitive to religious feelings, and so on. Many people did this during the danish cartoon situation.
 
V

victreeb3l

Member
Resident_UA said:
That's the thing. They shouldn't just be upset about a loss of human life. They should be upset that their religion is being exploited as a tool to kill people. That's much larger problem that needs to be dealt with.
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And they are and they are constantly condemning / speaking out against it. On this forum. On twitter, facebook, lots and lots of places.

Its the same goddamn thing in every Islamic thread.
 
B

bonercop

Member
BlazingDarkness said:
There should be world wide condemnation of such an atrocity (and act against freedom of speech), is my point.
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well, that rarely happens, and this really isn't that atrocious an event in the grand scheme of things. It just seems more real because it is closer to home for europeans.
 
S

Scipio

Member
Angry Fork said:
I'm not in favor of mass murder based on religious beliefs so first we can start with:
1. No private christian or muslim schools should be allowed, only secular public ones that can allow religious-based material in mythology/culture courses only.
2. All churches/buildings erected should be paid for by members of that religion only, without any tax benefits or special priveleges.
3. No religious person should be allowed to hold public office to enact religiously motivated laws that affect everyone (anti-abortion, creationism in schools, anti-gay marriage, etc.
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Disagree. Bot because extremists who use their religion as a weapon exist, is everything that has to do with religion bad. In the West, Christianity has been part and parcel of the culture that made us as 'civilized' as we think we are. Education should tell us westerners a great deal about that. As a Belgian (just right above France) , I had a great education in a semi-private Christian school (as it are the best ones in the country), and there was no bias whatsoever.

In the West, Christianity shouldn't be put in the same box as mythology (wow) or even kther religions, like islam. That's just the heritage of our ancestors which should be respected, understood and not thrown away. But that does not mean that we should all follow it.

Relgion can cause extremism, but is itself better used as a means for peace, harmony and tolerance, the opposites of harmony.

Secondly, you want no tax going to churches, I take it you live in America, where the churches are not ancient monuments and often the old centre of the city.
 
C

Circle Jerk

Member
Squirrel Killer said:
Hundreds of years of cultural aren't a reasonable foundation? Causing offense to an sizable group of people isn't a reasonable foundation? Preventing unneeded terrorist attacks isn't a reasonable foundation? Why in France does the Press Law of 1881 (which according to a random Google search tell me criminalizes incitement to racial discrimination, hatred, or violence on the basis of one's origin or membership (or non-membership) in an ethic, national, racial, or religious group) not apply to cartoonists inciting racial hatred by drawing insulting cartoons of Muhammad?
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Maybe dont do random google searches and post the results if youre unsure what they mean. I mean whats the point of saying I found this on google, explain to me why it doesnt apply? You just sound desperate.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
Resident_UA said:
That's the thing. They shouldn't just be upset about a loss of human life. They should be upset that their religion is being exploited as a tool to kill people. That's much larger problem that needs to be dealt with.
Click to expand...

Awesome, Back to the question. What can the large body of muslim do, to appease you? People that you can personally identify as muslims, chanting slogans..? Because I can give you links to muslims protesting or moments of peace for victims of bullshit.

What can they do differently than Christians who have wingnuts killing in the name of christ, or promoting female circumcision?
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
Resident_UA said:
I know that the odds are stacked against Muslims, but there are ways to be louder. There are a lot of Muslims in Paris, why can't they be on the street with slogans against ISIS?
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How do you know they aren't?
There's this weird thing ITT where the base assumption is that Muslims are silent and somehow complicit unless proven otherwise.

Super anecdotal but I work in Paris, I just had the shittiest afternoon at work, most people I ran into were as devastated as I still am and that includes all my Muslim coworkers. So yeah, I'm not a fan of their religion, I think it sucks, but it is absolutely irritating to think that all these decent hardworking people have all of a sudden to prove something, that they're not complacent with the tragedy that occurred today. They don't deserve that and the last thing we should be doing is viewing them as Other. We're all French and we were all hurt today.
 
N

nynt9

Member
Stereogatari said:
I guarantee there will be in Turkey. Satirical cartoon magazines similar to the French ones are quite popular over there and regularly lampoon Islamists.
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I doubt it - 50% of the country is right of moderate and the seculars are very apathetic. My facebook is full of angry comments but after how the government destroyed murdered protesters during the riots last year I don't think there will be protests over anything that isn't a significant internal political matter. Also 60% of the population is pro-media-censorship.

Stereogatari said:
I think it's even less than that tbh. Then again it depends on how far we are stretching our criteria. Do we count all believers in Allah as Muslim? Or do we roughly estimate how many follow the Quran and Hadith in full? Or is there a middle ground?

Turkey for example has more or less every ethnic Turk (and Kurd) registered as a Muslim. But how many of those are MUSLIM and how many of those are "Muslim".
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I'm an atheist Turk but I'm registered as Muslim because trying to get that ID card changed to "Atheist" is a huge hassle at best and dangerous/cause of discrimination at worst.

NathanCX said:
Why do you think that they have to? Fuck all to do with them.
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Why do Italians/Brits/etc protest? It has fuck all to do with them but they protest it.
 
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