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Terror attack kills 12 at Paris newspaper - 4 wounded, gunmen identified

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TheJLC

Member
Yes and those murderers were skilled. They showed pictures of a police car at which they were shooting, and the bullet impacts were really concentrated on a specific part of the windshield. Obviously not random shooting.

edit :
une-voiture-de-police-touchee-par-des-impactes-de-balles-lors-de-l-attaque-de-charlie-hebdo-a-paris-le-7-janvier-2015_5182909.jpg

Damn, that grouping. These guys must have had some training or experience.
 

orochi91

Member
It will take more then decades. More like many centuries.

Nah, due to technology (especially the internet), I expect Islam will change rather quickly by the end of the century.

It only needs to happen in one region, preferably the Middle East, after which others will then likely follow.

The internet may also be a major factor in the secularization of the Middle East. Even though it's employed by groups like ISIS as a recruiting tool, its potential for education is much greater.

This is an unpopular opinion, but I actually think that ISIS is more of a "last hurrah" for Wahhabism than any long-term ideological threat. The only reason so many Muslims join ISIS is because these people fear the secularization of their home countries, either Europe or an Islamic republic. ISIS only exists to reclaim the alleged former glory of Islam, and counteract this perceived Western secular influence on the Middle East. The Taliban is the same shit. These organized Wahhabist groups are only able to obtain their power because some Muslims feel persecuted.

Agreed, secularization is the key to success and prosperity for a number of Muslim countries, especially in the ME and Central/Southern Asia.

Oddly enough though, a friend of mine got upset rather quickly when I argued that our homelands would benefit from a secular focus, similar to that of Turkey.
He's pretty well educated too (Canadian STEM University degree), so resistance coming from him of all people was surprising.
 

Mael

Member
That's the only point on which I disagree. They also killed Kelkhal (RER B bombings), the hijackers from Marseille, the hostage taker in the Neuilly kindergarten...
They probably do what they have to do, but I'm not so confident that "they almost always get the guy alive".
The usually have a good track record, I mean the hostage situation on the plane was masterfully done after all.
Journalist on twitter citing an AFP source : 2 arrested, 1 killed during police raid.

Welp this is it.
I guess the one killed will have some explaining to do in the afterlife.
He's going to get cornered by the people he killed.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
Not sure I follow what it means to be "just a muslim." You're either with the 21st century and civil society, or you're not. This comic strikes me as being apathetic, and being Muslim is no excuse for showing apathy when it comes to the struggle between civilized society and backwards extremism. The choice should be obvious.
i can't believe how hard i'm laughing at this

holy fuck man he's just a muslim XD
 

Pacbois

Member
No news about the arrests/killing but there is defintly a police raid underway in Reims, police told journalists to be very careful.
 
London


Foreign Embassies


Aftenposten (Oslo)


From an Iranian cartoonist


Denmark


Daughter of murdered cartoonist Wolinsky

Daddy's gone, not Wolinsky

Thanks from Paris for all the messages/images of support. Thank you, Danke, Gracias, Tak, Grazie, Shoukran, Toda.
That amazing support warms my broken heart.
 
The cop that got killed was also a muslim, that might shut some people up because jesus christ, my Facebook feed. It's fucking sad how ignorant some people are.

"Some".

You might even say "most".
 

warthog

Member
You put into words how I have been feeling the whole night since learning about this horrible act. I´m shaken

This made me tear up:

Daddy's gone, not Wolinsky

Yeah, it has also affected me. It's so tiring, these murders of innocent people and for what cause?? Not just today, but all those civilians in Iraq and Syria, kids getting slaughtered at school, ... And now cartoonists? Come on... It's so frustrating and heartbreaking.
 

MrKaepora

Member
I don't care about his feelings, I'm just glad he no longer exists and that he's had the gift of living consciousness ripped from him like he ripped it from others.

Death is a soft punishment for these kind of people.

Giving them death is releasing their souls from this world and they deserve the punishment of living in a world that knows what they did and condemn them for it.

Put them in a dark prison cell, lock the door and throw away the key.
 

Kurdel

Banned
lWelp this is it.
I guess the one killed will have some explaining to do in the afterlife.
He's going to get cornered by the people he killed.

What? You think the people of Charlie Hebdo would be granted vengeance in the afterlife? If you don't mind me asking, what faith are you a part of?
 

TheJLC

Member
don't AK's have single shot mode too?

Yup, but were talking about a situation where police are armed and you face a potential of getting shot. It's very different to shoot this accurate under pressure without proper training than shooting in a range. Single fire or full auto, this is very accurate shooting against law enforcement.
 
AFP confirms a RAID operation is underway in Reims.

They're the same corps that launched the assault against Mohammed Merah, two years ago:

263.jpg


Edit: pretty cool logo, too:

225px-Logo_RAID.svg.png
 
I think pretty compelling evidence for this is the radicalization of Palestinian Muslims. I highly doubt they would hate the West and secularism as much if they were not being actively repressed by a mostly-secular Western nation.

25% of Palestinians would not support al-Qaeda if Western secularism was not such an immediate "threat".

Dude, I am Muslim and I grew up in the middle east and its really shitty when you meet people who immediately dismiss secularism because its employed by countries that repress Arabs/muslims.

I honestly can't wait for the day secularism is employed in the middle east. There absolutely needs to be separation of church and state... no more forcing shariah law
 
But it's much, much more than that.

In countries which have a Muslim population of greater than 80 million:

Bangladesh: 44%
Egypt: 86%
Pakistan: 76%

That's just from a quick look through. To act as if this is just a few people with radical beliefs isn't accurate, was the point they were trying to make. Some of these beliefs are much more widespread than that.

Yeah, it's important to remember that the 20% number is tens (hundreds) of millions of people. Its not some small group. To be sure, other religions have this problem. There might be 1 million radical Christians in North America (if that) who could be persuadable to some sort of violence (or tacitly support it), and perhaps a few million more in Europe, and a handful of a million radical Christians in Africa or Latin America, but its nowhere near the number of Muslim people who do the same. That doesn't mean all or most Muslims are violent, but it does mean there is a problem within the broader culture.

Some of this rage is justified; I have a great amount of sympathy for Palestinians, and some are pissed off because Americans keep droning innocent people who having nothing to do with terrorism- becoming radicalized themselves. But alot of it is just based on an irrational fear of an encroaching secularism on an ancient culture.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
I just saw a thankfully edited version of the video before they assassinate that police officer begging for his life.

Still disgusting, and disturbing. Why wouldn't they just drive away after that rather than go and finish him off.
 

Mononoke

Banned
I'm loving this, as they will just create a bigger force to destroy them(extremists) if they try to intimidate Everyone.



Its off limits to portray the prophet. Nah, not talking nonsense. I'm in the same boat, minus a hate for GOD. I think there is something that created all the universes. Thats my god. Religions mostly speak to abiding by Caesars laws, or the LAW of the land. These extremists do nothing of the sort.

Its no different than NK attacking people for whatever they think is happening bad with their Dear Leader. We can't abide by terrorists will, as its thirst is never quenched.

Well that's interesting. I've never fully understood how religious people reconcile with living in a society. What I mean is, if you truly believe your religious faith is the truth. If that's the meaning of life. If the afterlife means more then what is going on in this life. It's strange to me that, so many people put aside their views and abide by the modern social laws (some that override religious practice, or things they would not agree with).

In the case of this, depicting the prophet is a mortal sin. Not just from a personal responsibility perspective, but ANY depiction of this prophet is considered a sin for humanity, therefore the person doing it must be stopped or punished. That of course, clashes with well...social laws. Such a freedom of speech. Such as, a person having the right to live.

But again, if that is what they 100% believe in, then I don't really know how religions are able to truly adapt and be apart of a modern society. Many have. I mean, Christianity for a large part has. It's not impossible. I know plenty of religious folks who reject some things in text, and abide by moral social laws of today. But it's kind of hard for me to wrap my head around people being selective and allowing modern social laws trump their religious beliefs.

To be clear, I want people to do this. I want people to have their own faith, but keep it to themselves. There is of course, nothing wrong with you voting, and speaking up when you think something is WRONG. But killing people, or hurting others because they don't line up with your religious views. That is where I don't understand how people move past that. Because ultimately to a lot of people, religious beliefs >>>> anything else in this life (so it trumps laws).

My feeling about that is then, like...why bother living in this society. Go live in a theocracy or some other place that is ruled by your religion. There is no place for this kind of person in a modern/functioning society. I think the problem is, people are quick to rope in all people of this religion, and try to apply that to everyone. That is where bigotry/racism comes in. And that is also not acceptable.

EDIT: I don't hate the concept of GOD tbh. I think it's an interesting concept. Just not one I believe in. But that said, I'm also not someone that believes 100% that there is nothing. I don't think there is enough proof to say there is is something, or there isn't something. So I just accept it's something I don't know. I do think, it's a wonderful/beautiful idea that life has some kind of purpose. That a higher being created everything. I actually don't mind that idea. I think it can be beautiful, and it's a really nice idea.

Personally, as an atheist, I've decided that life is worth something, because of the people in it. Meaning, I find my purpose in life by the friends, and family I have. The people that are in my life. The people that I make happy, and the people that make me happy. It's about connecting with other people, and enjoying life. At least for me, that helps me reconcile with the idea that, maybe this is all a mistake or pointless. But even if that's true, there is nothing pointless about living life, enjoying it, and enjoying with other people. That is my own personal outlook on life.
 

DarkTom

Member
Before going to sleep, I post this message to thank all people from all countries who support the victims, my country and freedom.

This is really great to see such solidarity in such sad days.
 

WinFonda

Member
holy fuck man he's just a muslim XD
And I've had christians tell me, "I'm a Christian" as if there is some sort of universal flavor they all come in. It's meaningless to say you're "just a muslim" or "just a christian" it doesn't tell me what you actually believe and stand for.
 

DY_nasty

NeoGAF's official "was this shooting justified" consultant
AFP confirms a RAID operation is underway in Reims.

I knew the apprehension stuff floating around earlier had to be bullshit....
And I've had christians tell me, "I'm a Christian" as if there is some sort of universal flavor they all come in. It's meaningless to say you're "just a muslim" or "just a christian" it doesn't tell me what you actually believe and stand for.

its like you work overtime to miss the entire point of that picture but thanks for the laugh
 

Mael

Member
What? You think the people of Charlie Hebdo would be granted vengeance in the afterlife? If you don't mind me asking, what faith are you a part of?

Actually that last part was in bad taste.
Point and laugh (e :) at me for being stupid I mean.
 

Cartman86

Banned
To the dumb fucks who would say they shouldn't have drawn/published these cartoons. These aren't some cartoons taking lazy pot shots at your average believer. Those would be legally defensible but still lazy and for some cruel. These are the kind of cartoons that are the target of violent attacks, and are precisely the type of free speech that deserves support by anyone who wants to live in a liberal society.
 

Jackben

bitch I'm taking calls.
Not sure I follow what it means to be "just a muslim." You're either with the 21st century and civil society, or you're not. This comic strikes me as being apathetic, and being Muslim is no excuse for showing apathy when it comes to the struggle between civilized society and backwards extremism. The choice should be obvious.
This is ridiculous. How is it apathetic? It's showing how easy it is for both sides to paint someone of faith in a specific light when all they are trying to do is practice their religion.
 
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