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[spekkeh]

A religion didn't give them justification for the murders. It's a lot more complex than that.

It's also incredibly important how we talk about Muslim Europeans, and especially Arab-Europeans, because how we address the issue colors the way we perceive people. And especially Muslim Europeans are having a really tough time these days, because the way that media and the public construct them, prejudice, generalizations and racism are culled.

Yes I feel for the stigmatized but of course the religion gave them their justification. Mocking Muhammad or Allah is a sin punishable by death, and they said themselves that they avenged the prophet.

 

[BrassDragon]

Twittersphere (Le Monde) says this morning's shooting involved two gunmen wielding AK-47s, one at large in metro, one apprehended. Female police officer in critical condition. Coincidence seems unlikely.

 

[neorej]

I have no idea how the fuck I am ever going to explain to my grandchildren how I witnessed a cyberwar over a movie and a terrorist attack over a cartoon. My grandkids will go "oh, gramp, you're so crazy."

 

[Alx]

I have no idea how the fuck I am ever going to explain to my grandchildren how I witnessed a cyberwar over a movie and a terrorist attack over a cartoon. My grandkids will go "oh, gramp, you're so crazy."

And we thought Grampa Simpson was a joke... but all he says is true !

 

[BrassDragon]

Le Parisien reports both officers involved in the Chatillon shooting are in critical condition.

 

[Joni]

I have no idea how the fuck I am ever going to explain to my grandchildren how I witnessed a cyberwar over a movie and a terrorist attack over a cartoon. My grandkids will go "oh, gramp, you're so crazy."

We can only hope they think we're crazy.

 

[Ashes]

Yes I feel for the stigmatized but of course the religion gave them their justification. Mocking Muhammad or Allah is a sin punishable by death, and they said themselves that they avenged the prophet.

The previous poster is attempting to shed a fairer light on the subject.

It is not the case that every Muslim gets offended by portrayals of Muhammed, nor does every Muslim scholar believe mocking should equal to a death sentence.

If you wish to persist on this road, you may have to explain why the majority of Muslims don't take up arms against every offence laid upon their prophet.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

The previous poster is attempting to shed a fairer light on the subject.

It is not the case that every Muslim gets offended by portrayals of Muhammed, nor does every Muslim scholar believe mocking should equal to a death sentence.

If you wish to persist on this road, you may have to explain why the majority of Muslims don't take up arms against every offence laid upon their prophet.

couldn't you argue that a reason could be because lack of proximity? Any portrayal of mohammed happens in the western country with not a high number of muslims.

can you really say that a person who cause offense to mohammed in say, indonesia or malaysia or somewhere in the middle east will not have a mob at their doorstep? There has been mobs for lesser offense

 

[BrassDragon]

Possible bomb explosion in Lyon restaurant.

Fuck me.

 

[jonno394]

Possible bomb explosion in Lyon restaurant.

Fuck me.

source?

 

[chadskin]

source?

http://www.20minutes.fr/lyon/151247...iminelle-proximite-mosquee-villefranche-saone

 

[Ashes]

couldn't you argue that a reason could be because lack of proximity? Any portrayal of mohammed happens in the western country with not a high number of muslims.

can you really say that a person who cause offense to mohammed in say, indonesia or malaysia or somewhere in the middle east will not have a mob at their doorstep? There has been mobs for lesser offense

I don't think one needs to discount completely any one part of the whole.

You could just as well discount French or European Muslims, who typically protest, rather than take up arms.

It isn't an 'either' or 'and' situation, where Muslims can only be good, or bad, for their expression of faith to be authentic.

 

[BrassDragon]

source?

Dutch journalist: https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=springelkamp


Some additional details: the explosion invovles a restaurant near a mosque. Apparently no wounded. Connection with Charlie Hebdo unclear.

 

[params7]

No injuries reported yet from the blast. Hope it stays that way.

 

[Des0lar]

Stay safe France

 

[mitheor]

Bomb blast near mosque in northern France

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2015/01/08/Bomb-blast-near-mosque-in-northern-France-.html

 

[Alx]

http://www.20minutes.fr/lyon/151247...iminelle-proximite-mosquee-villefranche-saone

Hope it's not an escalation, but it sounds really stupid. Who would blow up a kebab restaurant, seriously ?

 

[MistakenMobius]

Bomb blast near mosque in northern France

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2015/01/08/Bomb-blast-near-mosque-in-northern-France-.html

More like "explosion in a kebab that happened to be Cloae to a mosque"

 

[GasProblem]

Hope it's not an escalation, but it sounds really stupid. Who would blow up a kebab restaurant, seriously ?

Around 6 am. Yeah, doesn't really sound like an attack, but who am I.

 

[Joni]

Des coups de feu à Port-la-Nouvelle dans l'Aude: D'après Midi Libre, deux coups de feu auraient été tirés vers 20H sur une salle de prière à Port-la-Nouvelle dans l'Aude. Aucun blessé n'est à déploré.
--> Shots fired in the neighbourhood of prayer room in Port-la-Nouvelle (South of France) yesterday evening. No injured.

 

[MistakenMobius]

Hope it's not an escalation, but it sounds really stupid. Who would blow up a kebab restaurant, seriously ?

Another kebab on the other side of the street, the Chinese deli maybe?
Oenthey forgot to pay there protection money...

 

[chadskin]

AP has more background on Cherif Kouachi.

He is is reported to be a convicted Islamist who was well-known to police and had dreamed of attacking Jewish targets in France.

According to media reports, Cherif Kouachi, 32, was first considered to be a possible terrorist by the French authorities when he was in his early 20s.

He is believed to have come under the influence of a radical Paris-based Islamic preacher and was reportedly convicted of a criminal charge in 2008 after associating with an illegal organisation backing jihad in Iraq.

Kouachi, originally from the Paris suburb of Pantin, was sentenced to three years in prison with 18 months suspended.

French newspaper Liberation described Cherif Kouachi, whose parents were Algerian immigrants, as an orphan who was raised in foster care in Brittany.

He is said to have trained as a fitness instructor before moving to Paris, where he lived with his brother and worked as a shop assistant before attempting to travel to Iraq via Syria aged 23.

It is believed that Cherif was radicalised after expressing anger at the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the mistreatment of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

 

[BrassDragon]

Hope it's not an escalation, but it sounds really stupid. Who would blow up a kebab restaurant, seriously ?

Hey, people wage cyberwar over Seth Rogen and mass murder over cartoons.

But yeah, common sense says it's not a big deal.

 

[Nyx]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

 

[Lime]

AP has more background on Cherif Kouachi.

It is believed that Cherif was radicalised after expressing anger at the 2003 invasion of Iraq and the mistreatment of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.

But France strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq??

 

[Ushojax]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

Professionals can still be incompetent.

 

[King_Moc]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

They did the attack because someone drew a picture of their imaginary friend. Expect the unexpected.

 

[MistakenMobius]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

I'm thinking if they were really trained in Syria and Iraq or other warzone, they might never really had to deal with proper police investigation.

 

[vityaz]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

Probably overthinking. They might have been active in Syria as mujahideen or whatever, doesn't mean they don't do mistakes.

 

[Joni]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

The attack itself wasn't professional. They even entered the wrong building at first. The shot placement was professional, but that is easily explained by their Syrian experience.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

Sometimes you can do one thing well and do another thing horribly.

 

[Nyx]

Guess you all are right..

 

[Frodo]

Woke up hoping for some good news only to find out there has been another shooting.

*sigh*

 

[Joni]

- Le Figaro claims the Kebab explosion was criminal in nature.
- Shots were fired at a car with a muslim family in Vaucluse yesterday evening.

 

[BrassDragon]

The attack itself wasn't professional. They even entered the wrong building at first. The shot placement was professional, but that is easily explained by their Syrian experience.

Agreed, Al-Qaeda used to have basic operational security procedures (which we know from the manual seized in the UK that had specific instructions where to keep your papers) but this new breed of veterans returning from IS zones are trained as soldiers, not undercovers.

 

[Lihwem]

Holy shit, I'm living in Reims, where one of the suspects is apparently.

The police did an intervention this night in a neighborhood at like 10mn in car from my parents house, it's so surreal.

I mean, I don't think anyone risks anything since it was clearly a targeted attack against the newspaper but still, it's weird...

The whole situation is so fucked up... !

 

[Osahi]

All the Belgian newspapers published each others cartoons today. Here they are.

"They're armed!"

"Charlie Hebdo is dead, long live Charlie Hebdo!"

"It's not our fault we can't draw"

"Stay concentrated. Do as if nothing happened. Have fun. Especially have fun"

'Death by laughter'

(This guys most popular figures hug Wolinski)

(The shirt sais: liberty of press)

"Either way, we will continue"

I really like these next two:

"Huh? The more I behead him, the sharper he becomes"

Black day for the prophet. "Now I can't show myself anymore". (Not sure if I translate the nuance right. It's a saying that indicates you're so ashamed you rather hide and don't show yourself to anybody anymore)

This cartoonist (who is the most known political cartoonist in Flanders, came on television yesterday and had a hard time not to cry because Wolinski was his hero and example. He spoke the most beautiful words of the evening in my opinion:

"Those murderers killed for their God, but in the end they just killed mine"

One other cartoonist, which is considered one of the sharpest and most controversial delivered a white sheet, claiming there is no way he could draw what he felt.

 

[Lime]

- Le Figaro claims the Kebab explosion was criminal in nature.
- Shots were fired at a car with a muslim family in Vaucluse yesterday evening.

this is exactly what I feared would happen

 

[chadskin]

German BILD journalist cites the French Interior Minister saying that the 52-year old shooter from earlier this morning has NOT been arrested, he's said to still be on the loose.

https://twitter.com/chefreporternrw/status/553115120210292737

 

[MacNille]

But France strongly opposed the invasion of Iraq??

Notice that the terrorist are fucking idiots. And yes, France did opposed the invasion.

 

[Kathian]

I wonder how many more chances Bish will give us before banning conversation on this outright.

The only chance to change a hateful view is to hear it and argue against it. Where people are emotional pin a subject its best to, yes, give them a voice but only if they do the same.

Locking/censoring/banning is the wrong action at this time over threatless comments. Now ongoing from here it's all fair game, but right now I think people are just giving a lot of jibberish even nice jibberish as they are upset.

 

[Always-honest]

All the Belgian newspapers published each others cartoons today. Here they are.

"They're armed!"

"Charlie Hebdo is dead, long live Charlie Hebdo!"

"It's not our fault we can't draw"

"Stay concentrated. Do as if nothing happened. Have fun. Especially have fun"

'Death by laughter'

(This guys most popular figures hug Wolinski)

(The shirt sais: liberty of press)

"Either way, we will continue"

I really like these next two:

"Huh? The more I behead him, the sharper he becomes"

Black day for the prophet. "Now I can't show myself anymore". (Not sure if I translate the nuance right. It's a saying that indicates you're so ashamed you rather hide and don't show yourself to anybody anymore)

This cartoonist (who is the most known political cartoonist in Flanders, came on television yesterday and had a hard time not to cry because Wolinski was his hero and example. He spoke the most beautiful words of the evening in my opinion:

"Those murderers killed for their God, but in the end they just killed mine"

One other cartoonist, which is considered one of the sharpest and most controversial delivered a white sheet, claiming there is no way he could draw what he felt.

Great! Especially the last two are pretty cleaver and funny imo.

 

[Brerlappin]

The fact those 3 guys left their ID's in a car baffles me... That can't be real.

The attack yesterday was professional, that does not comply with leaving your ID in a car at all. Or am I overthinking this?

Maybe they dont care? I mean, maybe they plan on doing random attacks until they get killed and become martyrs, or some bullshit

 

[Kathian]

Maybe they dont care? I mean, maybe they plan on doing random attacks until they get killed and become martyrs, or some bullshit

To be fair if they did escape they'd be better with ID so it's possible they had another bag with what they changed into but they forgot their IDs.

 

[Joni]

To be fair if they did escape they'd be better with ID so it's possible they had another bag with what they changed into but they forgot their IDs.

If they were thinking like that, they would be better off with fake id's. Two of them were already known to national security so their real names would be tainted as suspects anyway.

 

[vityaz]

To be fair if they did escape they'd be better with ID so it's possible they had another bag with what they changed into but they forgot their IDs.

You know we'll have the conspiracy theorists all over this... sigh.

 

[BrassDragon]

Yesterday, we heard they had taken a hostage while on the run. Was this brought up again anywhere?

 

[Joni]

Grenade thrown at mosque. Three intact grenades were found.
http://www.lemainelibre.fr/actualit...r-des-grenades-et-une-balle-08-01-2015-121884

Yesterday, we heard they had taken a hostage while on the run. Was this brought up again anywhere?

Luckily fake. Guy/Girl was thrown out of car immediately instead of being taken hostage.

 

[Funky Papa]

Repugnant. This is exactly what the terrorists were counting on.

I hope the cops crack on far right groups extra hard.

 

[Lime]

Good article in the NY Times today:

“This is a dangerous moment for European societies,” said Peter Neumann, director of the International Center for the Study of Radicalization at King’s College London. “With increasing radicalization among supporters of jihadist organizations and the white working class increasingly feeling disenfranchised and uncoupled from elites, things are coming to a head.”

Anti-immigrant attitudes have been on the rise in recent years in Europe, propelled in part by a moribund economy and high unemployment, as well as increasing immigration and more porous borders. The growing resentments have lifted the fortunes of established parties like the U.K. Independence Party in Britain and the National Front, as well as lesser-known groups like Patriotic Europeans Against Islamization of the West, which assembled 18,000 marchers in Dresden, Germany, on Monday.

In Sweden, where there have been three recent attacks on mosques, the anti-immigrant, anti-Islamist Sweden Democrats Party has been getting about 15 percent support in recent public opinion polls.

The attack left some Muslims fearing a backlash. “Some people when they think terrorism, think Muslims,” said Arnaud N’Goma, 26, as he took a cigarette break outside the bank where he works.

Samir Elatrassi, 27, concurred, saying that “Islamophobia is going to increase more and more.”

“When some people see these kinds of terrorists, they conflate them with other Muslims,” he said. “And it’s the extreme right that’s going to benefit from this.”

With each terrorist attack, however, the acceptability of anti-immigrant policies seems to reach deeper into the mainstream. In Britain, for example, which also has a large Muslim population, the U.K. Independence Party has called for a British exit from the European Union and sharp controls on immigration, emphasizing what it sees as dangers to British values and identity. The mainstream parties have competed in promising more controls on immigration, too.

“Large parts of the European public are latently anti-Muslim, and increasing mobilization of these forces is now reaching into the center of society,” Mr. Neumann said. “If we see more of these incidents, and I think we will, we will see a further polarization of these European societies in the years to come.”

Those who will suffer the most from such a backlash, he said, are the Muslim populations of Europe, “the ordinary normal Muslims who are trying to live their lives in Europe.”

But the atmosphere has been heightened by the rise of the National Front and its leader, Marine Le Pen, who runs ahead of the Socialist Party in the polls, campaigning on the threat Islam poses to French values and nationhood.

“This attack is double honey for the National Front,” said Camille Grand, director of the French Foundation for Strategic Research. “Le Pen says everywhere that Islam is a massive threat, and that France should not support attacks in Iraq and instead defend the homeland and not create threats by going abroad, so they can naturally take advantage of it.”