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Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.
- Thread starter bishoptl
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He or she is informing you about power relationships. When we are talking about different positions within society, then there's a difference between a person in power and privilege making a racist joke about an oppressed and discriminated group of people, and vice versa.
There's the aspect of kicking down vs. kicking up. When we are talking about European Muslims and you are ridiculing and discriminating against them when they are already experiencing tons of oppression, then it obviously begs the question if perhaps they should be cut some slack, perhaps?
Just like there's a difference between a White person making a racial joke about a Black person in especially the US, then a person in power and privilege in Europe making a racial joke about Muslims is comparable.
Satire can be about challenging power, not belittling the oppressed.
Stereogatari
Banned
You're being dense. I'm obviously not saying that.
But let's say a bunch of US cartoons satirising stereotypes of black culture were heavily publicised in the US and then we had a "draw a black man" day. Do you not think this would anger Blacks? I think that's how a lot of Muslims see it. Not the ones taking up arms, they don't need an excuse, but the everyday guy who feels like he's being singled out because of his loose association with murderers.
That's not 6 starsWanted level:
Sorry, i dont understand...is he saying Muslims are Nazis?
Sources?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
FlyingSaucer
Banned
From the eyes of a Western, mostly atheist-raised-catholic, I'm shocked when (granted, few) people try to justify attacks on certain demographics - say, for example, the jews - as free expression or humor, and the same people complain that you don't have the right to make fun of the prophet of your religion of choice. The double standard is highly disturbing.
Last time I reallity-checked, getting killed for drawing cartoons could be categorized as something that affect you a lot.
______
One of my co-workers spoke about how effective 'mafia-style' and "if you are related to the terrorist, it's not really colateral damage" methods are to defend ourselves. First time in my life I've had truly the sentiment that we are mere inches away from fascism. It's terrifying.
Palette Swap
Member
Actually, she's just painting a huge strawman. The hypocrisy she points out is purely fictional: everyone has condemned these attacks and pointed out it was the result of how ignominious radical Islam is. Hell, we have shitty policies on dozens of things but very concretely, this administration went to war in Mali to fight the Al Qaeda presence there, our internal security forces do monitor these guys all the time, in 2014 a law was passed to actually deal with grassroots jihadism emerging in France and Hollande mentioned they had foiled several terrorist plans over the past few weeks.
So no, I don't think this government (or any past government) has been pussyfooting around when it came to radical Islam. They sure achieved a lot more against radical Islam than Le Pen ever did with her shitty little speeches. The hypocrisy is hers alone and exploiting this right now just shows what a piece of shit she is.
They can hate it that is their decision but they are not allowed to attack someone from saying his opinion or making a joke no matter how bad it is.
People make so many jokes about us germans being nazis even though 99.9% aren't. Yet i have to take it, i'm not so insecure that i want to prohibit people from making jokes about us and i accept their right to say stuff like this.
I've seen it in TF1, the main french TV network.
maquiladora
Member
Why are you comparing religion to race? Religion is a choice a person of any race can make to believe in the tales from their choice of magical storybooks.
The satire of Charlie Hebdo should be compared with the satire of The Life Of Brian or Father Ted.
You don't have news for anybody, just a blatant and dishonest exaggeration you now try to minimize with the 'at the very least some cases'. And you made it even worse a few posts back talking about how you feared it could go back to Europe's situation in 33-45.
... GTA has 5 stars though.
You'd be surprised.
It used to have 6, GTAV made it 5.
Of course. At the same, we also have to acknowledge the problem of oppressing and discriminating against Muslim Europeans and how power positions within our society affect a lot of people and their daily lives, and help us determine the differences between satire of power vs. satire of the oppressed, i.e. kicking up vs kicking down.
No one is saying anyone is allowed to attack another person for what they're saying. You are drawing a false conclusion on what is being argued. Read the post again.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Emergency physician/Charlie Hebdo columnist: "Charlie Hebdo will be out next week. We'll write it with our tears"
Being called a Nazi is part of my life and I embrace the shit out of it.
It's basically a running gag and allows me to make fun of all the idiots and racists who take this shit serious and actually believe in it.
Arjen
Member
This is great, no political mumbo jumbo, but straight from the heart.
The whereabouts of the two gunmen remains unknown. They are said to be on the RN2 motorway back into Paris - still in the same grey Renault Clio that was hijacked after the shootings yesterday. Its number-plates are apparently blacked out.
Security has been tightened at British ports and on Eurostar in the wake of the Paris attacks, Downing Street said. Matthew Holehouse reports:
Passports are also being more closely scrutinised on the French side of the border by British authorities.
The additional security measures mean a great visibility of security staff and police and greater scanning of cars and freight.
No 10 said the move was not in response to a specific threat but more a general reaction to recent events.
The Charlie Hebdo attack suspects are believed to have stolen food and petrol at gunpoint from this service station in Villers-Cotteret, Picardy - around 50 miles northeast of Paris - before driving off in the direction of the capital.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html
Security has been tightened at British ports and on Eurostar in the wake of the Paris attacks, Downing Street said. Matthew Holehouse reports:
Passports are also being more closely scrutinised on the French side of the border by British authorities.
The additional security measures mean a great visibility of security staff and police and greater scanning of cars and freight.
No 10 said the move was not in response to a specific threat but more a general reaction to recent events.
The Charlie Hebdo attack suspects are believed to have stolen food and petrol at gunpoint from this service station in Villers-Cotteret, Picardy - around 50 miles northeast of Paris - before driving off in the direction of the capital.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html
Exactly, sure i don't like these jokes but i'm not feeling like i have to kill the person that makes these jokes. I stand above it.
I was giving you an olive branch by saying "at the very least in some cases". Because of course it's hard being a Muslim or a visible minority classified as "Middle-Eastern" in Europe. It should be evident based on what has been going on for quite a long while.
And btw, people are throwing grenades into mosques, setting off a bomb in a kebab, and who knows what else is going to go down because people's brains can't distinguish between generality and specificity. The Islamophobia is sure as hell right in front of our eyes.
Stereogatari
Banned
Not the GTA I love.
So you think only satire against the ruling party, the ethnicity and the religion that are in majority in a country should exist?
Stereogatari
Banned
You aren't a minority though. I'm sure visible German Americans in WW1 and WW2 had it very different (and indeed many Anglicized their names as a result of discrimination).
Agreed. If you can't deal with the fact that nothing is beyond the reach of criticism, go to a country where that which you hold so dear that it cannot be criticized will not be criticized.
We are not a minority in Germany.
We are outside of it.
So what you are saying is that satire against Germans is ok in Germany but everywhere else it isn't?
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You wouldn't believe the amount of military hardware that sneaks into Europe from Kosovo/Albania and Ukraine.
I guess they are trying to get their "glorious deaths" now while trying and cause some more damage.
Funny fact, I actually know someone who has a crate of 10 handgrenades in his basement cause a Russian friend he had once gave them to him.
He actually has no idea what to do with them or how to get rid of them so he just stashed them down there and hopes they get forgotten.
Huh? Who's talking about things existing? I am not talking about whether or not A or B should exist. I am talking about being able to perceive and address power positions within society in order to properly understand why one particular form of satire is different from another and that you cannot equate them entirely. That has nothing to do with what should or should not exist.
We are a minority in the world. We don't get nazi jokes from people living in germany only from people living outside of it.
Business
Member
Muslims are not opressed in Europe.
Of course there's racism in Europe (like pretty much everywhere else in the world) and non white muslims will probably experience racism as will blacks and asians, but the notion that muslims are opressed in Europe is utterly ridiculous.
Herbspiceguy
Member
Anyone think it's strange that terrorists who operate as trained military professionals somehow leave their ID in a vehicle?
Alx
Member
Maybe their escape route has been cut. They were heading north-east, in the general direction of Reims where yesterday's police operation occured.
He should tell the police about them and have them removed. He could get in serious trouble if those get found by authorities for any reason and they think he's been hiding them.
Palette Swap
Member
To be fair, whoever makes a Germans = nazis joke in 2015 is a dumb cunt who doesn't deserve the time of the day.
Yes. Likely a statement similar to them declaring they're Al Queda from Yemen.
It's probably a conspiracy.
ComputerMKII
Banned
One of them lost his shoe, they also knocked at the wrong address (twice) and they had to hijack a car. Also, they try to go train in Iraq and failed.
Those terrorists are semi-amateurs, what's new?
Always-honest
Banned
Oww... So shit will be over soon then. But hopefully peacefully.
You wouldn't believe how often it happens if germany is in the international news.
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