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[Lime]

Question one: How many women in hijabs are permitted to search for a job anyway?

What does that have to do with the discrimination that Muslims with visible differences are experiencing in European countries?

in US on Ferguson shitstorm that has nothing to do with general attitude and is simply a huge fuck up that is blown out of proportions (by both sides of the conflict.

oh boy.

99% of the general population doesn't really give a fuck about someone's beliefs or skin colors

This statement is false.

(even in dire situations like the one with Charlie Hebdo) and just want to be left alone with their much more real problems.

And oppressed minority groups like visible Muslims also want to be left alone instead of facing discrimination and marginalisation everywhere they go in European societies.

Using the hate speeches and doings of a vocal minority to paint a picture of the whole population is not a wise thing to do.

You should read Racism without Racists. The issue is more complex than that.

 

[Arksy]

Vice: Meeting the Londoners at Last Night's 'Charlie Hebdo' Solidarity Vigil

A Few of the Voices from LA's 'Charlie Hebdo' Vigil

Holding pens up like that is a rather beautiful tribute.

 

[Xando]

Oh most Muslims do laugh about ourselves, the only thing we don't laugh at is God himself and his Prophets. The reason is the religious nature, the thought is if we joke or mock the thing we worship and revere and respect then we bring their level of respect down. This is why most muslims joke about clerics and their rules and non Prophet related religious leaders because they in the eyes of most Muslims are not near perfect and not a link between God and man for people

I respect and understand that it is against your beliefs. It's just that this is not the norm for us in the western world because we make jokes about everything.

 

[KingSnake]

Of course, but that's not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about satire that reproduces racist depictions of especially oppressed groups of people. That's what I would call bad satire. It's fine to exist, I'm just calling it bad. Satire isn't very good when you're punching down - that's just punching someone you've got pinned and laughing at them while you're doing it.

Can you post an example of the this? Because I think that maybe we are not talking about the same thing. Or are you implying that Muhammad cartoons are racists? Because my impressions all the time was that they are attacking some religious ideas (and specifically some interpretations of the religious ideas) not the race.

Edit: and context if very important, as often satire refers to relevant events happened around the time it is created and without context it might seem stupid or bad or without logic.

 

[Arksy]

Sydney, Australia.

 

[SmokyDave]

Of course, but that's not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about satire that reproduces racist depictions of especially oppressed groups of people. That's what I would call bad satire. It's fine to exist, I'm just calling it bad. Satire isn't very good when you're punching down - that's just punching someone you've got pinned and laughing at them while you're doing it.

Why? What relevance does this have to anything?

 

[Klyka]

I respect and understand that it is against your beliefs. It's just that this is not the norm for us in the western world because we make jokes about everything.

This.

Nothing is or should be sacred. It's all made up by people so people should be allowed to make fun of it.

 

[Aureon]

Italy, please...

.. Saint god i hate those two morons.
Libero and Il Giornale are not mainstream publications, they're berlusconian apologists, paid for by the usual suspect.
They're every bit as terrible as conceivable.

Those are some mainstream publications:

"Attack on the heart of Europe"
(From what i understand, figuratively, as the heart of europe is freedom of speech)

'Blood on Liberty'

Jihad, attack on a journal

Nothing particularly good, but at least they're showing the cartoons.

 

[Xando]

Spiegel is reporting RAID and GIGN troops are regrouping where they found the car near Crépy-en-Valois.

 

[Alej]

Of course, but that's not at all what I am talking about. I am talking about satire that reproduces racist depictions of especially oppressed groups of people. That's what I would call bad satire. It's fine to exist, I'm just calling it bad. Satire isn't very good when you're punching down - that's just punching someone you've got pinned and laughing at them while you're doing it.

And it's exactly the use of satire you know. Bringing people to real offending subjects and opening their mouths about it. Like what you are doing right now.
It's the proper object of satire.

It's healthy for everyone.

It deconsecrates taboos and helps the "vivre ensemble" (live together) and is strongly what Republic is. Satire is Fraternité in the strongest form it can be.

 

[Addi]

Why? What relevance does this have to anything?

I'm also trying to follow that discussion, this is my conclusion as well

 

[Irminsul]

I am not following you at all? Could you elaborate?

Well, differentiating between satire against "those in power" and against "those not in power" seems pretty important to you. At the same time you're equating religion and race, something that just doesn't follow in my opinion. And even an institution (religion) and people.

I.e., you're guilty of the same thing: No, you can't just say "satire about Islam = satire about Blacks" if "satire about Christianity = satire about Islam" bothers you.

Also, satire against minorities is pretty common, solely based on their beliefs. Sure, try making it about race, but it isn't. Islam isn't a race. You can see that for yourself if you think about your own words: Who is mocked in most caricatures of Islam? The religion itself or maybe Muhammad. Who would be mocked in a caricature of blacks? Black people themselves.

 

[lemmykoopa]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

For example Thailand. Thai people are widely known to be very laid back people, with a lot of humor. However, their King is sacred. Nobody will make a joke about the king, it is just not done, it is not accepted and I doubt the stance of this will ever change.

 

[Renzoku]

What does that have to do with the discrimination that Muslims with visible differences are experiencing in European countries?



oh boy.



This statement is false.



And oppressed minority groups like visible Muslims also want to be left alone instead of facing discrimination and marginalisation everywhere they go in European societies.



You should read Racism without Racists. The issue is more complex than that.

You just keep going on and on about the poor, marginalized muslims who had to bear the evil, oppressive satirical cartoons and all I'm seeing is that you continue to justify these atttacks with your bullshit logic.

Islam is deserving of criticism. Being a minority anything does not automatically turn you into a sacred lamb, but it sure fits your bullshit narrative about the evil white man that you love to weave through all of these threads.

 

[chocolate disco]

There are people who think they have the right to mock religion.
There are people who think they have the right to kill people who think they have the right to mock religion.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

This statement is false.

In my last team, there was two developpers from Algeria, one from Asian ancestry, the analyst was from Senegal and the team leader was a non-praticing Jew. We worked, we eat and we joked together.
Thanks you very much for your contempt.

 

[Lime]

I don't agree that there is such a thing as Muslim culture, because, say, someone from Jakarta and someone from Marrakesh are highly unlikely to have very many cultural similarities. Good satire will satirize Islam, which is not a culture, but a religion, one of the largest in the world in fact. On top of that, criticizing or satirizing Islam is not marginalizing adherents of said faith. Which is not to say that satire of Islam couldn't be racist or otherwise marginalizing, as just about anything could be, but it does mean that it isn't necessarily, and that there is no real reasonable argument to be made for satirizing everything except Islam.

First of all, you are misreading me. I am not saying that making satire of Islam is necessarily bad satire.

I am saying that when certain characteristics are associated with a specific oppressed culture and (religion can be and often is culture - it's difficult to separate the two entirely in some cases like this) are being ridiculed through racist stereotypes, then it's what I would call bad satire.

And the specific culture we are talking about is in a European context, not a global one. I am not talking about the 1.3 billion of Muslims globally. I am referring to the Muslims with visible differences in European countries. They are experiencing discrimination and marginalization and oppression. When you are ridiculing and kicking down on a group of people with racist stereotypes about this particular group, then I would label that bad satire. E.g. when you're making a racist caricature like the welfare queen one that Charlie Hebdo did.

 

[Alej]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

For example Thailand. Thai people are widely known to be very laid back people, with a lot of humor. However, their King is sacred. Nobody will make a joke about the king, it is just not done, it is not accepted and I doubt the stance of this will ever change.

I'm French and I would hate to have to conform myself to US laws because I would offend american people otherwise. Come on.

 

[Sickboy007]

.. Saint god i hate those two morons.
Libero and Il Giornale are not mainstream publications, they're berlusconian apologists, paid for by the usual suspect.
They're every bit as terrible as conceivable.

Those are some mainstream publications:

"Attack on the heart of Europe"
(From what i understand, figuratively, as the heart of europe is freedom of speech)

'Blood on Liberty'

Jihad, attack on a journal

Nothing particularly good, but at least they're showing the cartoons.

Both Il Giornale and Libero have a higher circulation than Il Fatto Quotidiano. They're shit, but like it or not Berlusconi apologists still are part of the Italian mainstream.

 

[Always-honest]

There are people who think they have the right to mock religion.
There are people who think they have the right to kill people who think they have the right to mock religion.

Yesss........ And your stance on that is?

 

[Xando]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

It's perfectly ok if they don't want to joke about religion, that is everyones own decision as long as they accept that we in the western world joke about everything we want.

 

[tuna_love]

There are people who think they have the right to mock religion.
There are people who think they have the right to kill people who think they have the right to mock religion.

Huh?

 

[Fularu]

For once, something happens in Picardy... I've never heard about my native region so much in the news (that picture makes me homesick for some reason... yeah I know it's ugly, but still). I wish it could have been in better situations...

Fire up "Bienvenue en Picardie" by "Le VRP" then

Anyway, Picardie's presence is pure speculation at this point

LeMonde.fr:

Oise: rien n'indique la présence des suspects, selon Beauvau


Contacté par Le Monde, le ministère de l'intérieur refuse de confirmer la présence, évoquée par plusieurs médias, des suspects de la fusillade à Crépy-en-Valois ou Villiers-Côterets, où un déploiement policier est en cours, et appelle à la prudence.

 

[KingSnake]

I am referring to the Muslims with visible differences in European countries .

You just put together in the same culture Turks, Bosnians, Arabs (and even here there are a lot of differences), people from North Africa (Maghreb), people from sub Sahara, Indonesians, Iranians, Afghans, Pakistanis etc.

 

[lemmykoopa]

It's perfectly ok if they don't want to joke about religion, that is everyones own decision as long as they accept that we in the western world joke about everything we want.

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

 

[aerts1js]

First of all, you are misreading me. I am not saying that making satire of Islam is necessarily bad satire.

I am saying that when certain characteristics are associated with a specific oppressed culture and (religion can be and often is culture - it's difficult to separate the two entirely in some cases like this) are being ridiculed through racist stereotypes, then it's what I would call bad satire.

And the specific culture we are talking about is in a European context, not a global one. I am not talking about the 1.3 billion of Muslims globally. I am referring to the Muslims with visible differences in European countries. They are experiencing discrimination and marginalization and oppression. When you are ridiculing and kicking down on a group of people with racist stereotypes about this particular group, then I would label that bad satire. E.g. when you're making a racist caricature like the welfare queen one that Charlie Hebdo did.

Just an observation but why is it that whenever "bad satire" is thrown around there's a 99.9% chance that the speaker doesn't really even understand what satire is meant to do/be in the first place.

 

[KingSnake]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

First of all, you are talking about a personal attack on a specific individual. Otherwise, how many of the comedians using "Yo' mamma is so fat ..." jokes have been attacked?

 

[Klyka]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

If someone is mocking my mother in a way that highlights her bad points, then that is satire and I will laugh about it.

If someone just mocks my mother without there being any point to it, just for the sake of insulting me, then I have the right to speak out against that.

It's how the Mohammed cartoons were satire directed at the fact you are "Not allowed to draw him" and not against the actual character of Mohammed.

 

[jufonuk]

I hope the "protests" remain like the ones we saw around the world, just people in silence holding je suis charlie signs and pens aloft,

this is the right and best response, I hope common sense and peace prevails that nothing bad comes of this no backlash against anyone.

this is the way to let the killers know they have failed.

 

[Lucifon]

Both suspects are apparently hiding in a flat in Crépy-en-Valois according to french TV station: France 3 Picardie

http://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/picardie/

Police is allready there.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/charlie-hebdo-newsblog-zum-anschlag-von-paris-a-1011790.html

How is there still no new news from this? 40 minutes have passed...I doubt they're just sat twiddling their fingers in the flat if it is them there.

 

[Palette Swap]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

It's a terrible analogy. And there's no acceptable path anyway that leads from mocking one's mother to violence.

 

[Sky Chief]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

For example Thailand. Thai people are widely known to be very laid back people, with a lot of humor. However, their King is sacred. Nobody will make a joke about the king, it is just not done, it is not accepted and I doubt the stance of this will ever change.

No

 

[Klyka]

How is there still no new news from this? 40 minutes have passed...I doubt they're just sat twiddling their fingers in the flat if it is them there.

They forgot the molotovs in their car and just went "oh shit oh shit i told you to bring them oh FUCK"

 

[SgtCobra]

How is there still no new news from this? 40 minutes have passed...I doubt they're just sat twiddling their fingers in the flat if it is them there.

It's probably not true..

 

[Sky Chief]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

No matter what anyone says about me, anything I believe in, or anyone I know there is never an excuse for violence of any kind. Anyone who thinks otherwise has some serious mental illness.

 

[Xando]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

There are a lot of bad mother jokes in the western world. If someone attacks my mother personally i'll probably get mad but i'm not gonna kill anyone.
We sometimes do mother jokes and laugh about it with my friends (Most of them are muslims by the way).

 

[Kenshin001]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

No, they are not the same. That's something Muslims will have to accept if they want to live in Western society. The onus is not on us to accommodate their warped beliefs.

 

[UncleSporky]

If someone is mocking my mother in a way that highlights her bad points, then that is satire and I will laugh about it.

If someone just mocks my mother without there being any point to it, just for the sake of insulting me, then I have the right to speak out against that.

Well no, actually, you always have the right to speak out against it, whether it's satire or not. You always have the right to speak.

 

[neorej]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

A mother is an individual, a religion and it's followers are numerous

Second; the number of "Your momma is so fat...." far exceed the number of "Muhammed walks into a bar...." jokes.

Third; my mother is a physical entity, a religion is an abstract

But other than that, they're basically the same, yes.



I've heard this comparison a thousand times before, and every time it made no sense at all. Also; people have mocked my mother on numerous occasions, both comedically and hostile, and all those people still lived to tell bout it.

 

[Lime]

General statement to everyone quoting me: I am giving my viewpoint on the topic of good or bad satire. It does not mean that you are wrong or that I think anyone is dumb. Just in case anyone feels they are addressed personally in any way.

With that being said, I really have to get back to work so this will probably be my last reply to the ones at the time of writing quoted me unless someone wants to make a thread about good vs. bad satire in terms of power relationships within Western societies in cases of marginalized and oppressed minority groups. I can't keep up with this thread and perhaps emotions are still running high for some, thereby clouding each other's common understandings.

Can you post an example of the this? Because I think that maybe we are not talking about the same thing. Or are you implying that Muhammad cartoons are racists? Because my impressions all the time was that they are attacking some religious ideas (and specifically some interpretations of the religious ideas) not the race.

Edit: and context if very important, as often satire refers to relevant events happened around the time it is created and without context it might seem stupid or bad or without logic.

Some authors are not aiming only for a religion when they are depicting Middle-Eastern people through racial stereotypes.

Why? What relevance does this have to anything?

We were discussing the topic of good vs. bad satire. It's fine to make either, and I was just making the argument that bad satire is to me something that involves racist stereotypes of oppressed minority groups.

And it's exactly the use of satire you know. Bringing people to real offending subjects and opening their mouths about it. Like what you are doing right now.
It's the proper object of satire.

It's healthy for everyone.

It deconsecrates taboos and helps the "vivre ensemble" (live together) and is strongly what Republic is. Satire is Fraternité in the strongest form it can be.

Sometimes it's healthy everyone yes, but satire like, let's say, Blackface or racist stereotypes are not healthy for everyone. This is just to tell you that satire isn't absolute.

You just keep going on and on about the poor, marginalized muslims who had to bear the evil, oppressive satirical cartoons and all I'm seeing is that you continue to justify these atttacks with your bullshit logic.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Wow. No. Seriously no. Of course these despicable murders are condemnable on all fronts. But that doesn't mean I can't criticise bad satire that kicks down on already oppressed minority groups. I can't believe you would think I am justifying these heinous acts.

Being a minority anything does not automatically turn you into a sacred lamb.

In the US many would beg to differ. Not that people are a sacred lamb, but that it matters who you are ridiculing.

In my last team, there was two developpers from Algeria, one from Asian ancestry, the analyst was from Senegal and the team leader was a non-praticing Jew. We worked, we eat and we joked together.
Thanks you very much for your contempt.

I didn't mean to sound contemptful - I apologise if I came across that way - what I am saying is that being a Muslim with visible differences can be quite tough and I think it should be evident with what is going down in Europe in the last couple of years.

I am really happy that your team gelled nicely together.

 

[Klyka]

Well no, actually, you always have the right to speak out against it, whether it's satire or not. You always have the right to speak.

I didn't mean I can't speak out against the satire,just that I wouldn't cause it was satire.
i'd laugh instead of be offended.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

For example Thailand. Thai people are widely known to be very laid back people, with a lot of humor. However, their King is sacred. Nobody will make a joke about the king, it is just not done, it is not accepted and I doubt the stance of this will ever change.

If they want to come in Europe and live as any other citizens, they will have to.

(well, technically we rarely joke about the Thai king anyway)

 

[lemmykoopa]

There are a lot of bad mother jokes in the western world. If someone attacks my mother personally i'll probably get mad but i'm not gonna kill anyone.

Wow wait my post wasn't saying that it's justified to kill somebody over a satire. I think it's terrible what happened yesterday.

My posts where aimed at people who were saying that Islam people should lighten up and laugh about the jokes or start to do so. I just said I could understand how some of these cartoons could hurt or offend people. However, answering with violence? No, just NO!

 

[FiggyCal]

What if someone repeatedly mocks your mother. How would that make you feel?

I know mocking ones mother and a religion is not really the same but perhaps for very religious people that have a different culture than ours which we don't fully understand mocking their prophet or religion hits as hard as someone mocking your mother.

I've once had to tell a white guy to not say the N word so much because it's offensive. His response:
"Why? I'm not offended by it."

I think it's irresponsible to ask newspapers to run pictures that Muslims all over deem offensive just to get back at 3 guys.

 

[Alx]

How is there still no new news from this? 40 minutes have passed...I doubt they're just sat twiddling their fingers in the flat if it is them there.

Well like Commissar Vialès would say : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JE1uHQeyV4
I mean : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxfk8E4Yt20
(from a French famous and silly comedy)

We don't need to know about all of their moves in real time. It's probably even better that there is a media blackout about it until they catch them.

 

[Aureon]

Both Il Giornale and Libero have a higher circulation than Il Fatto Quotidiano. They're shit, but like it or not Berlusconi apologists still are part of the Italian mainstream.

... really?
Oh dear.
Still, checked and they have 1/4 of Repubblica's \ Corriere, and Fatto is mainly an online thing.
... yet, i didn't think they had 100k. Christ.

 

[Xando]

Publishing Muhammad cartoons would have been too risky, says Amol Rajan

The editor of the Independent has said “every instinct” told him to publish the Charlie Hebdo cartoons caricaturing the prophet Muhammad but described it as “too much of a risk”.

The newspaper, along with the rest of the UK’s national press, did not reprint any of the satirical magazine’s caricatures of Muhammad or the cartoons from Denmark’s Jyllands-Posten, with which Charlie Hebdo first provoked international outrage in 2006.

Rajan instead put a striking cartoon by Dave Brown on his paper’s front page on Thursday, showing a hand with the middle finger raised emerging from the cover of Charlie Hebdo. But he was “very uncomfortable” with his decision not to reprint Charlie Hebdo’s cartoons, which he described as “self-censorship”.

Rajan said he had a duty to his staff and had to “balance principle with pragmatism”.

“Every instinct that you have as an editor is to publish and be damned. You don’t like the idea of self-censorship, you don’t like the idea that you grant a victory to these religious fanatics by not publishing something that instinctively you would like to,” Rajan told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Thursday.

“But the fact is as an editor you have got to balance principle with pragmatism, and I felt yesterday evening a few different conflicting principles: I felt a duty to readers; a duty to the dead; I felt a duty to journalism – and I also felt a duty to my staff.

“I think it would have been too much of a risk to unilaterally decide in Britain to be the only newspaper that went ahead and published so in a sense it is true one has self-censored in a way I feel very uncomfortable with. It’s an incredibly difficult decision to make.”

“What’s happened here is a bunch of religious fanatics have tried to silence cartoonists, have tried to silence satire. I think the important thing is not just whether you should show the prophet Muhammad, but to say that those cartoonists wouldn’t be silenced,” he said.

Rajan added that the decision to put a cartoon on the front page was in part a practical decision not “to be overtaken by events”.

Peter Huth, editor of German newspaper BZ, which did publish a series of Charlie Hebdo cartoons, said: “I must say we are not so totally different in the end because we both published cartoons.”

“We worked with the same tool to express our emotions, we did it in a slightly different way,” he told Today.

“We printed 43 covers that Charlie Hebdo printed over the last three or four years, not only dealing with Islamic issues but also with French politics … because they are a satirical magazine.

“What we wanted to do was honour their bravery, what they showed over all those years, and the other point we were thinking about was just journalistic, we had to explain to our readers what is Charlie Hebdo.”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jan/08/charlie-hebdo-muhammad-cartoons-independent-amol-rajan

It's a shame british newspapers are too scared to show the muhammad cartoons.

Wow wait my post wasn't saying that it's justified to kill somebody over a satire. I think it's terrible what happened yesterday.

My posts where aimed at people who were saying that Islam people should lighten up and laugh about the jokes or start to do so. I just said I could understand how some of these cartoons could hurt or offend people. However, answering with violence? No, just NO!

In the western world you can be mad and angry about stuff that upsets you. You can take a stand and speak up against it but there is this thing called freedom of expression. Thats why we have to allow these horrible anti-islamic demonstrations in germany but a lot more people use their right for their own opinion speak up against these demonstrations by organising counter protests that are a lot larger than the anti islamic protests.

 

[Violet_0]

To the people who are saying that Islamic people should start to learn laughing about their religion / prophet, what if that just isn't possible because of how deeply rooted their religion is in their life, their identity? Shouldn't that also be respected?

For example Thailand. Thai people are widely known to be very laid back people, with a lot of humor. However, their King is sacred. Nobody will make a joke about the king, it is just not done, it is not accepted and I doubt the stance of this will ever change.

there's quite a few people who criticize their king but can't do so openly, it's against the land even. He isn't uniformly loved by everybody

that reminds me that I sort of miss those anthems

oh, I'm quoting lemmykoopa heh

 

[Klyka]

UK defeated.

RIP in Pieces.

 

[ComputerMKII]

The lawyer of one of the gunmen (from 2005 to 2008) is publicly asking him to surrender (Source: BFMTV)