Go back a few pages and see where and why the conversation started and evolved like that.
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Terrorist attack at Charlie Hebdo magazine. 12 dead. 11 wounded.
- Thread starter bishoptl
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Go back a few pages and see where and why the conversation started and evolved like that.
That's one of the notable things to come out of all of this. By their own doing, these murderers have made this publication and its artists incredibly famous, so much so that next week's issue is being printed for a circulation of 1,000,000 instead of its usual 45,000.
In short, their "statement" has achieved the great sum of fuck all.
Portugeezer
Member
I've had many close muslim friends in the past, and well, some even go as far as to defend honour killings. I would say that video is probably misrepresenting though, some due to peer pressure, wouldn't surprise me if 50% truly felt that way however.
A world without religion seems good right about now. Imagine people had to use their own freedom of thought and not use some fairy tale book to justify backwards mentality? They would probably agree how stupid it is.
I don't think you know Eric Zemmour and you don't live in France I suppose ...So you should not make such judgments...
Well that's a bit troubling.
Maninthemirror
Banned
Howard Dean: The Paris attackers are part of a cult
Chaplain
Member
Sam Harris posted the following video on his facebook page about the shooting: "Excellent discussion with Douglas Murray and Maajid Nawaz"
Reaction to Paris attacks: Murray, Nawaz and Powell
Reaction to Paris attacks: Murray, Nawaz and Powell
Always-honest
Banned
It's almost funny to see how they're all trying to act intelligent.
It's like they are training to become normal human beings but they're stuck in a backwards loophole.
Terrifying.
Maybe i'm missing some excellent reasoning though.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Le Monde: "The libyan branch of ISIS has announced the assassination of two Tunisian journalists."
RIP
RIP
FlyingSaucer
Banned
There isn't any shortage of pretexts over which we can kill each other anyway.
ComputerMKII
Banned
The official Facebook page for Charlie Hebdo has gained 770 000 new fans (+325%) in 24 hours.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I am surprised the phobia driven Sam Harris has taken this long to respond
Palette Swap
Member
Well, he's a gigantic douche and Charb was right when he equated him to Le Pen.
Wouldn't go so far as to say that was their plan but I certainly agree that's one thing I desperately want people to take from this mess.
Reproducing the cartoons is the same as going to see The Interview to protest free speech. It's not a protest in any meaningful sense.
Howard Dean: I love the No True Scotsman fallacy.
Maninthemirror
Banned
well of course only Islamophobes (people afraid of Islam and thus adherent muslims like me) would say that. I wouldnt let my kid near your home if we were neighbours with that attitude.
In fact I would be afraid you would hurt my family if we walked in the same neighborhood as you. yikes. why dont you stop hating my belief and respect muslims who want no violence
lol ok, you're right, I don't live in France, but I am french and I know who he is. This particular speech wasn't that bad, but I don't like what he is implying towards the end.
Sickboy007
Member
Are you accusing him of being potentially violent against a child?
I disagree.
To be honest you've been going on and on with the no true scotsman fallacy in this thread and the previous one. The point being, there is actually no true scotsman anyway.
This has always been my belief. They're simply criminals using their interpretation of religion as a means to justify their actions.
gutter_trash
Banned
Howard Dean takes the American Liberal approach of trying to be nice and politically correct with all religious minorities.
A true secular liberal is not afraid to question and be critical towards the dogmatic segments of a religion or religious groups
A true secular liberal is not afraid to question and be critical towards the dogmatic segments of a religion or religious groups
Fenderputty
Banned
They're doing exactly what they terrorists wanted. They're afraid of publishing images that may be seen as offensive to whacked Muslims. It was literally the entire point of the attack.
This is a standard excuse for religion though that is just not valid.
Sure there are people out there that will kill for a cigarette, 100 dollars or cause you look at them wrong, but what is more likely to incite these kind of crimes in failed human beings:
A) A man wants 10 cartoonists dead, he goes to 2 idiots and tells them, they will get 10.000 Dollars if they murder these 10 people and they would get the money after they have evaded the police.
B) A cleric wants 10 cartoonists dead. He intoxinates 2 weakminded idiots that they will be able to AVENGE GOD, they will be on one level with the creator of their religion and if they will die it will not matter as they will go to paradise and have access to dozens of virgins and be forever famous as martyrs.
...I don't really need to reply to this. I think it speaks for itself.
Maninthemirror
Banned
that would be true if you believe Islam itself is violent but I am not. why by proxy as I am an adherent Muslim saying I am not a true muslim.
hobblygobbly
Member
Islam has a large amount of extremism coming out of it that no other faiths match. These are obviously in the minority because they misinterpret Islam. It is by no means what Islam encourages or the majority do.
The problem is that because the most extremism exists out of Islam, it puts moderate Muslims in a very bad place. The responsibility of moderates should be challenging those that misinterpret it, this rarely seems to happen in the west and only when terrorist attacks occur by these extremists. Some Imams will condemn it when others will agree with it (such as that I.S Imam sympathizer in Denmark). Ordinary Muslims are not challenging extremism outside of terrorist acts, maybe it's out of fear, I don't know.
There are some that do challenge and help educate those that misinterpret, there are centers and youth programmes in Europe where Muslims help others that hold extremist views and misinterpretations but it's nowhere near enough.
This is why the sole situation of Islam in Europe particularly, it has the highest amount of extremism which gives moderates so much trouble unfortunately, there is a problem somewhere that is causing this for decades now. There are over 700 youthful Muslims in France alone over in Syria partaking in Jihad, over 1000 from the U.K. These are the ones that are acting on their extremist views and is alarming. The root problem needs to be found what is causing this high level of extremism out of Islam, how are they misinterpreting Islam? Why is so little done to prevent this? It's an obvious small minority out of Islam doing this obviously, but it's an amount no other faith is any where close to. That's an obvious problem.
Don't know what else to say about that. I don't really see much mention of it and someone on BBC World News said something similar in a much better way than I.
The problem is that because the most extremism exists out of Islam, it puts moderate Muslims in a very bad place. The responsibility of moderates should be challenging those that misinterpret it, this rarely seems to happen in the west and only when terrorist attacks occur by these extremists. Some Imams will condemn it when others will agree with it (such as that I.S Imam sympathizer in Denmark). Ordinary Muslims are not challenging extremism outside of terrorist acts, maybe it's out of fear, I don't know.
There are some that do challenge and help educate those that misinterpret, there are centers and youth programmes in Europe where Muslims help others that hold extremist views and misinterpretations but it's nowhere near enough.
This is why the sole situation of Islam in Europe particularly, it has the highest amount of extremism which gives moderates so much trouble unfortunately, there is a problem somewhere that is causing this for decades now. There are over 700 youthful Muslims in France alone over in Syria partaking in Jihad, over 1000 from the U.K. These are the ones that are acting on their extremist views and is alarming. The root problem needs to be found what is causing this high level of extremism out of Islam, how are they misinterpreting Islam? Why is so little done to prevent this? It's an obvious small minority out of Islam doing this obviously, but it's an amount no other faith is any where close to. That's an obvious problem.
Don't know what else to say about that. I don't really see much mention of it and someone on BBC World News said something similar in a much better way than I.
iceatcs
Junior Member
We could say you are westophobes. If you think it is wrong, show them, not action them.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Er.. what the hell?
Sickboy007
Member
Maninthemirror
Banned
I live in Pennsylvania.
Stereogatari
Banned
Charlie Hebdo victim was 'a friend of Islam, Turkey'
"Georges Wolinski was a person who spoke in favor of Turkey’s EU membership and drew cartoons to support it.
He was a human who loved Turkey very much. He was never the enemy of any Muslim. On the contrary, he was one of the loudest voices supporting Muslim immigrants in France.
Another victim was Jean Cabut, "Cabu"...
Both were friends of the late Oğuz Aral, a legendary Turkish cartoonist.
They were leftists and never xenophobic or Islamophobic. Both were champions of immigrants in France."
Ordinary Muslims are not politically active. Like you and me they just live their life, many don't even pray or follow their religion. They can't challenge the extremism because like you and me, they are not connected to extremist circles. Asking them to challenge extremism is as good as asking non-Muslims to.
"Georges Wolinski was a person who spoke in favor of Turkey’s EU membership and drew cartoons to support it.
He was a human who loved Turkey very much. He was never the enemy of any Muslim. On the contrary, he was one of the loudest voices supporting Muslim immigrants in France.
Another victim was Jean Cabut, "Cabu"...
Both were friends of the late Oğuz Aral, a legendary Turkish cartoonist.
They were leftists and never xenophobic or Islamophobic. Both were champions of immigrants in France."
Ordinary Muslims are not politically active. Like you and me they just live their life, many don't even pray or follow their religion. They can't challenge the extremism because like you and me, they are not connected to extremist circles. Asking them to challenge extremism is as good as asking non-Muslims to.
Good lord.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Didn't matter where you coming from. You got to learn to cope with Western. Same on Western got to learn to cope with Muslins.
Not just one side.
Maninthemirror
Banned
I cant be American or Canadian enough because I am muslim? what kind of segregation thought process is this? There is no need to cope. Muslims have been living in US since 19th century.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You have said plenty of silly stuff in this thread, but this comment right here depicts your inanity more than anything else.
Way to read.
JoeyJungle
Banned
I was just wondering, have they said how the identified the attackers? I read an article earlier that one of them turned themselves in (and I'm presuming identified the other two), did they have any leads on him and that's why he gave himself up, or did he just feel guilty?
Maninthemirror
Banned
When I see someone hate my belief and thus me, I am afraid this person could hurt me. its a natural instinct when you encounter hate.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_ScotsmanCan someone please explain this ?
It would be much appreciated
Iirc Qureshi tried to backtrack later when he got criticised by anti-racist organisations, and claimed his organisation didn't want to implement their version of the Islamic penal system, and that they do not want to kill anyone.
I suppose their 'moderate stance' emerges from them seemingly believing that they are fighting 'radicals' who a, do want the worldwide caliphate & b, are willing to kill anyone who gets in their way.
Edwards_Omatic
Member
Whether their plan of getting the us to hate people of the Muslim faith over here in the West is certainly up to debate, I completely agree that the attack wasn't about these extremists being upset over some cartoons.
I know hindsight is a lovely thing, but it seems obvious that attacking a magazine over 'insulting' cartoons is going to result in further 'insulting' cartoons as a fuck you.
This is some vile accusatory shit.
iceatcs
Junior Member
Then why you fear of Western. There is no need.
Lot of us are good people, and happy to respect your religion in your own. I hope everyone could do the same
Sickboy007
Member
You're just rambling. Go take a cold shower or something.
You are not sounding exactly rational with this post.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Keep reflecting. Don't stop.
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