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[Arksy]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

It's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries in forty years. Think about that.

Sounds like pretty stupid maths. Especially considering when your base assumptions are plainly wrong. All migrant populations synchronise their birth rates with the host country between one and two generations. Not to mention France's birthday is actually quite healthy at 2 births per woman.

 

[Funky Papa]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

I'm waiting for the academic sources behind those numbers.

 

[Stereogatari]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

Hahahahahaah. You should perform stand up, this stuff is gold.

 

[Hrothgar]

No. That is not how the world works. A lot of people define their identity through their religion. Saying you hate their religion obviously implicates their personality.

That's not how their world works, and that is precisely the problem. They will have to come to terms with the fact that your religion doesn't have to define you and that criticism of said religion is not an attack on their person. This is a large part of the dissonance they seem to experience in secular societies in Western Europe.

 

[kamorra]

Well thinking about it. I don't really know the great state of Germanu. Maybe things are different there.

 

[despire]

Ok, now this is fear mongering bullshit. This thread needs to get back on track.

I'm not fear mongering. I was just answering his question on how it could happen and what I've heard.

 

[victreeb3l]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

Edited.

I've always wanted to eat halal french cuisine. Wonder what that tastes like.

 

[Beefy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-30728158

Something needs to be done in Nigeria.

 

[marrec]

Well thinking about it. I don't really know the great state of Germanu. Maybe things are different there.

It contains the world's second largest natural source of Vibranium.

 

[Funky Papa]

Well thinking about it. I don't really know the great state of Germanu. Maybe things are different there.

It borders Narnia. You can reach it through unicorn caravan.

 

[bonercop]

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century
.

No, it's not.

 

[Sickboy007]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

Edited.

Houellebecq is not an expert.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

You do know that muslim people who are born in France are apart of the native population right?

 

[Lime]

Right and most people will try an be considerate. But we're talking about free speech and the difference between respect for the person and the religion.

It's not disrespectful to say that Islam, like any religion can be used to insight violence. That even though there's plenty of peaceful interpretations there's some pretty fucked up ones out there and that the ancient text is vague and ambiguous enough to have continued fucked up interpretations.

What I said is offensive to them personally. They're taking the above as a personal attack and that's bullshit.

We were talking about these specific posts, not what you are describing:

How about no one here hates you but just your religion?

I think your religion is a pile of shit but I respect your right to believe in it.
You are not your beliefs. Being critical of your religion does not mean I'm being disrespectful to you.

 

[Klyka]

The Federal Turkish Republic of Germany.

Döner for everyone!

 

[Frodo]

Saw it in my FB feed.

This comic is downright wrong. The thing is, you can criticise Judaism without criticising the Jew people, and it is often done. Same can be done with Islam. It is a false equivalency. You can criticise the idea of Judaism without criticising the people that are born in that community. You SHOULD (MUST) be free to criticise Islam without fearing retaliation or whatever. People don't criticise Judaism that much because they exist in their own bubble and they don't try to convert anyone. If you aren't born Jew then (most likely) you are not going to become one. It is a completely different situation. For clarity: I'm not saying Muslin are trying to convert anyone, just saying that Judaism usually doesn't bother people because it doesn't reach them. But there are lots and lots of pieces of media criticising the religion, without grouping and labelling a whole group of people with stereotypes.

Edit: also, the drawings that we are talking about here were of the prophet of the Islam (which according to Islam, is blasphemous), and not about muslins.

 

[FartOfWar]

No. You can be critical of religion. But you'll probably offend that religion's followers.

Which is fine. What I'm asking is whether or not Lime's fear of offending entails ignoring any and all religious nastiness.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Because not everyone of that belief thinks homosexuality is a sin. And perhaps there are other aspects of that religion that are positive and worthy of consideration to take into account.

Of course, there are positive aspects to all faiths, I'm sure. But there are also plenty of aspects that can be criticised, particularly in a secular society. Making those criticisms isn't an attack on the believer, but the belief. If we can't divide the two, then that makes religion untouchable, which is preposterous.

 

[iMax]

Muslim population grows much faster than the original population with no slowdown in the horizon. Original population growth rate is slow and will eventually turn to decline. Original population will diminish while the previous minority will one day become majority. It's basic math.

Afaik it's been predicted by experts that France and Germanu will be muslim countries begore the end of the century

Edited.

 

[Palette Swap]

It contains the world's second largest natural source of Vibranium.

It borders Narnia. You can reach it through unicorn caravan.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the relief.

 

[despire]

No, it's not.

Did some digging and apparently it might be bulshit because the birth rate isn't that much higher. Glad to be proved wrong.

 

[Iceternal]

Glad we got that out of the way, now I can go on ignoring your opinions

I'm just saying that you're coming in favor of a far right ideologue who's never hidden how much he hates pretty much every possible minority. I think it's tasteless when the very victims of this event often derided and ridiculed how hateful and petty he was.

"Replacing the native French population", now you're just regurgitating Front National talking points.

Where do you guys live ? You should come to the Paris suburbs or take the RER B and check for yourself.

Even Manuel Valls is secretly saying the same thing "Belle image de la ville d'Evry". The politicians all know about it , they just don't want to admit it.

Anyways I have no interest in arguing with you. So feel free to ignore me. I just don't want people who don't live in France to judge the FN or Eric Zemmour for example.

I don't pretend I can have a valid opinion on US politics since I'm not American.

And Marine Lepen rightfully said that the Union nationale was a political ruse since the prime minister arbitrarily declared that the FN and its electors would be excluded from the movement.

A political movement which claims "unity for all France" but excludes 30% of the population ? Yeah right...

 

[Verano]

this thread went to shit fast like the previous one...
:/

 

[Mass_Pincup]

There's another spontaneous gathering to show support on Place de la République right now.

 

[Ashes]

These wikipedia pages seem to be very well sourced. This account also appears in Muhammad's first biography. But these events happened so long ago that you can pick and choose the events that suit you and put a person in the best light possible I guess.

You can chase up these things yourself. I recall doing so a few years ago. In my view certain patterns emerge with a lot of the non-academia anti-islamic/blog/wiki pages.

I think a person is prime to doing them self an intellectual disservice to merely follow one rhetoric in such shallow fashion.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Anonymous vows to avenge the victims: http://www.20minutes.fr/societe/151...ebdo-anonymous-promettent-venger-hebdomadaire

https://twitter.com/OpCharlieHebdo

 

[kmax]

It's like some of the people here didn't bother to read the OP or realize why the previous one got locked.

Let's go back to the topic shall we? There's still a manhunt ongoing. Any news? Seems like law enforcement is going door to door and are fine combing suspicious areas around France.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

Don't know if already posted but the brothers are now being hunted in Picardie, which is north of Ile de France the region where Paris is located.

 

[Ashes]

It's like some of the people here didn't bother to read the OP or realize why the previous one got locked.

Let's go back to the topic shall we?

This is perhaps the best course of action.

 

[Lime]

Most Muslims in the Western world get by and carry on with their lives, working, eating and living next to non-believers. Some of them face unwarranted difficulties due to their race and beliefs, but in the end most of them get along well enough to keep society functioning and making situations such as hate attacks outrageous events.

Unless he lives in some absurdly racist part of the country, the kind where the average person won't give him you hour, he has very little to fear from strangers. It's paranoid. Like me bolting out from a Catholic church because I fear Cristo Rey militants.

Maninthemirror just told you that for 7 years he and his wife had walks where he was called a terrorist. Now imagine that wherever you go in Western society, you have to be aware and conscious of all your actions, because they might get interpreted as being a terrorist. Like Rami Ismal (Vlambeer developer wrote a while ago) about being a Muslim with visible differences:

My single understanding of being discriminated against is my nationality and skin colour. It’s a pervasive thing, that I’m reminded of in my daily life more often than I’d like.

I never quite realised how much impact it had on me that I would always be selected for random security checks at airports, that a lot of antagonists in action movies are Arabs who use explosives to kill innocents and that the awful effects of September 11th are still vividly carved into my memory until I sent out above tweet. I literally felt uncomfortable in an airplane with opening a website that’d show me at what time I was allowed to eat again – an Arabic website showing a countdown in an airplane is obviously distressing, right? Yet, my ability to simply exist was limited severely by circumstances and personal fear of causing “unnecessary” trouble.

Add to the fact that people spit on you for wearing a scarf while you're taking the bus, you are not allowed to wear a hijab in public in France for example, that nightclubs won't allow you to enter because of your skin color, the media always talk about your religion in a negative and hostile manner, and people are voting for parties that hate your guts and want to throw you out of the country.

Don't you think that would make you paranoid?

That's not how their world works, and that is precisely the problem. They will have to come to terms with the fact that your religion doesn't have to define you and that criticism of said religion is not an attack on their person. This is a large part of the dissonance they seem to experience in a secular society.

Yeah, criticism of religion is fine, but saying "I hate your religion" or "I think your religion is a piece of a shit" is quite a different matter.

 

[Funky Papa]

The Federal Turkish Republic of Germany.

Döner for everyone!

But will shops still sell currywurst?

Inquiring minds need to know.

 

[Alx]

Don't know if already posted but the brothers are now being hunted in Picardie, which is north of Ile de France the region where Paris is located.

Yeah according to the latest update on Le Figaro, they have abandoned their car and are on foot. It should be harder for them to escape now I suppose. But there are many woods in the area, which makes it easier to hide.
I hope the night will be cold.

 

[wsippel]

But will shops still sell currywurst?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Sure, halal currywurst.

 

[FartOfWar]

Of course, there are positive aspects to all faiths, I'm sure. But there are also plenty of aspects that can be criticised, particularly in a secular society. Making those criticisms isn't an attack on the believer, but the belief. If we can't divide the two, then that makes religion untouchable, which is preposterous.

My religion and my people, the Pubemancers who have long cultivated the arts of Black Forest Urethral Letting and Rectal Shouting murder anyone who leaves their home on Wednesdays without wearing Zoobas, but we also feed the poor on Thursdays. This is the positive and worthy thing that you must take into account, provided I didn't already kill you on the prior Wednesday.

 

[Fenderputty]

We were talking about these specific posts, not what you are describing:

And? Was is the word shit that caused you to get all upset? Those are a little more abrasive ways of saying the same thing I said.

 

[Lime]

My religion and my people, the Pubemancers who have long cultivated the arts of Black Forest Urethral Letting and Rectal Shouting murder anyone who leaves their home on Wednesdays without wearing Zoobas, but we also feed the poor on Thursdays. This is the positive and worthy thing that you must take into account, provided I didn't already kill you on the prior Wednesday.

I'm sad that you're comparing Islam to this.

 

[UncleSporky]

You absolutely can hate religion while still respecting people. As an atheist I'm doing this 24/7.

This kind of sentiment sure sounds a lot like "love the sinner, hate the sin."

 

[iMax]

Sure, halal currywurst.

lol

 

[Xando]

Yeah according to the latest update on Le Figaro, they have abandoned their car and are on foot. It should be harder for them to escape now I suppose. But there are many woods in the area, which makes it easier to hide.
I hope the night will be cold.

Apparently they are closing in on them and have a area of 20 square kilometres near corcy where they search every house.

 

[kamorra]

Before Lime quotes me again I like to point out that you won't find me at a Pegida demonstration or any demonstration against any religion for that matter. I'm a minority myself where I live and as I stated I don't hate any person just all religions. I don't even hate them actually I just think that they are a cancer and are causing more trouble than they're worth.

It's also actually quite interesting to see how the real world differs from the internet. Most of my friends, including my best friend are from Lebanon and know my stance about religion. It was never a problem for us. Oh well.

 

[Palette Swap]

Where do you guys live ? You should come to the Paris suburbs or take the RER B and check for yourself.

I take this train (RER B) pretty often, I already did 10 years ago and can't see a difference. Yeah, there's a lot of people of color or of North African descent, there already were 10 years ago. Am I supposed to be super surprised to see them on a train that goes through the suburb ghettoes we've dumped them in?

I have a very hard time not reading this as "there are too many darkies on the train" TBH.

I really don't believe this kind of thinking will help us move forward as a society or will make us safer.

 

[victreeb3l]

Of course, there are positive aspects to all faiths, I'm sure. But there are also plenty of aspects that can be criticised, particularly in a secular society. Making those criticisms isn't an attack on the believer, but the belief. If we can't divide the two, then that makes religion untouchable, which is preposterous.

I think you should absolutely criticize the bad parts of the beliefs. But there are respectful ways to address those besides using broad strokes, "this entire thing is shit", etc. that many people use. When someone says things with hostility, its kind of hard to listen to them no matter how poignant their point might be.

 

[Lime]

Before Lime quotes me again I like to point out that you won't find me at a Pegida demonstration or any demonstration against any religion for that matter. I'm a minority myself where I live and as I stated I don't hate any person just all religions. I don't even hate them actually I just think that they are a cancer and are causing more trouble than they're worth.

It's also actually quite interesting to see how the real world differs from the internet. Most of my friends, including my best friend are from Lebanon and know my stance about religion. It was never a problem for us. Oh well.

That's cool and don't worry kamorra, I wasn't saying that you are at a Pegida demonstration or demonstration for against any religion. If you believe that then you got the wrong take-away from the conversation. I was pointing out that saying you hate a particular religion can be hurtful to the people who believe and identify with it. That doesn't mean you're extremist or anything - it was just a matter of consideration.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Before Lime quotes me again I like to point out that you won't find me at a Pegida demonstration or any demonstration against any religion for that matter. I'm a minority myself where I live and as I stated I don't hate any person just all religions. I don't even hate them actually I just think that they are a cancer and are causing more trouble than they're worth.

It's also actually quite interesting to see how the real world differs from the internet. Most of my friends, including my best friend are from Lebanon and know my stance about religion. It was never a problem for us. Oh well.

well most people like you can critical and not accepting that a belief can be valid, thats all fine and legitimate criticism, some people just hate, that is what is wrong and most haters don't know they not only hate the belief but anything associated with it, which is the people. I mean obviously they wont show the hatred to the person in public but they will never be friends with a person with that belief even when saying they like him as a person.

this is a good article about the recent events

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...eans_are_both_too.html?wpsrc=sh_all_dt_tw_top

 

[FartOfWar]

I'm sad that you're comparing Islam to this.

Cliff's Notes: I'm comparing this to your suggestion that the possible presence of "other aspects of that religion that are positive and worthy of consideration" should somehow make the gay guy feel less offended by a religion that regards his existence as a sin.

 

[Kinyou]

Cool, but then people knowingly saying hurtful stuff are inconsiderate.

I'm still not sure what's the point. Aren't you just tone policing?

 

[RoadHazard]

I really have a hard time understanding why the fuck I should respect religion. I also have a fucking hard time understanding people equating religion with race.
Religion doesn't have to be protected or respected.

Absolutely right. Religion is just an idea, opinion or belief like any other. It's not "special", and it deserves no special treatment. Like any other belief it can be questioned, criticized, even ridiculed, and that's perfectly fine. You don't have to agree with me when I tell you why I think your beliefs are irrational and unreasonable, but you WILL respect my right to do so. If you can't accept that you're nothing but a blind zealot, and you don't deserve my respect.

Those people with the "behead those who insult Islam" signs are pure scum, only slightly less despicable than those who actually act on it.

Islam doesn't have a unitary authority, but most Muslims I know reject evolution. But that's beyond the point, as I said the Muslim Scientist in my example takes the Quran's creation story literally.

"Scientist"

 

[Lime]

Cliff's Notes: I'm comparing this to your suggestion that the possible presence of "other aspects of that religion that are positive and worthy of consideration" should somehow make the gay guy feel less offended by a religion that regards his existence as a sin.

Who's talking about being offended? And a gay guy being the recipient? I think you're talking about something else that I am certainly not.

I'm still not sure what's the point. Aren't you just tone policing?

Eh no. How is that your conclusion? I was pointing out the relation between religion and identity and saying "I hate your religion" implicates hating something the person might identify with. Read the last couple of pages if you haven't already.

 

[paperboywriter]

whats the latest?

 

[Kinyou]

Eh no. How is that your conclusion?

Well, what is your point? That we shouldn't drawn those caricatures because some might find it inconsiderate?